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LL should be for teaching. most of the time (not all the time)the coach is a well meaning dad. they are the back bone of youth sports,not always the best at teaching. or you get the guy that is joe competetive, that come hell or high water i'm taking that 6$ trophy home.
our town has had some very good success in LL but that hasn't translated to a very good hs team. imagine that.
There's no fight Woodsman,...just an annoying, hijacking thread , civil discussion between neighbors. 
Nicholas25, getting back to your original thread question, I believe its a two way street.
Works bast when the parents watch, the coaches coach, the umpires ump, the kids play, and the game gets to naturally unfold out in front of us.
As we all know, when that happens, its GREAT!!!
Nicholas25, getting back to your original thread question, I believe its a two way street.
Works bast when the parents watch, the coaches coach, the umpires ump, the kids play, and the game gets to naturally unfold out in front of us.
As we all know, when that happens, its GREAT!!!
Woodrow,..no hugging allowed when discussing baseball. 
Now,..when we talk cookies,..that's a different story!
I'm inspired:
Ranger cookies comin' up!
Now,..when we talk cookies,..that's a different story!
I'm inspired:
Ranger cookies comin' up!
quote:Originally posted by shortstopmom:
I'm inspired:
Ranger cookies comin' up!
ME LOVE COOKIES !!!
WOW!!! Whatever happened to being a valuable sub? How can a coach not understand the value of subs? What happened to getting better and maybe starting the next year? Whatever happened to loving the game and learning it well enough to be a coach?quote:If my son works his A** off and still isn't talented enough to be the top 9 kids in his HS team, he is a loser of the "Game of Baseball". He needs to find another GAME to play with, maybe PS3 is a good game for him.
I didn't get it when I played high school and college ball. But the players who really love the game are those who gut it out for four years just to be a part of something they saw as important even though they didn't play often.
This above statement and this statement "If my son works his A** off and still isn't talented enough to be the top 9 kids in his HS team, he is a loser of the "Game of Baseball". He needs to find another GAME to play with, maybe PS3 is a good game for him." EQUALS .... I coach for my son. Screw the rest of the team. WOW!!!quote:A baseball coach who doesn't care whether the guys on the bench love the game or not... is a fool and doesn't really love the game himself.
Alright doggone it, enough of the pictures of the cookies! I'm trying to shed some winter lbs. and you guys are not helping!!!!!!!
The dynamics you see on this thread are exactly what you would see in nearly every team at the parental level.
You got the super competitive guy, the "lets be fair" to all the kids people and everything in between. Just like any team at anytown, USA.
I don't know exactly at what point winning should take precedence over being fair to the kids, but it does and it should. By the time the kids are in high school, yeah, winning should be the main goal but before that is pretty subjective IMO. I coach 9 and under and we are tying to improve each and everyday we get together and that's about it right now. My team is probably going to get lit up like a Christmas tree in most of our games this year and we are going to continue grinding what we call the 3 P's (pride, poise, percerverance) and see where that takes us. I don't think a high school coach should be obligated to visit with parents about PT or who's playing where, but at the youth level I love having an open, honest approach with my parents. I want as many at practice to see what we are trying to accomplish. I want them to see their kids successes and failures. Makes it much easier to visit after practice with a Dad(or Mom) and say "Did you see son in BP? He's having trouble with ????, or your son is really having trouble with the throw for 3rd, I think he'll have more success at second"
This approach has worked great for me so far and we have harmony on the team and no disgruntled parents as of yet.
You got the super competitive guy, the "lets be fair" to all the kids people and everything in between. Just like any team at anytown, USA.
I don't know exactly at what point winning should take precedence over being fair to the kids, but it does and it should. By the time the kids are in high school, yeah, winning should be the main goal but before that is pretty subjective IMO. I coach 9 and under and we are tying to improve each and everyday we get together and that's about it right now. My team is probably going to get lit up like a Christmas tree in most of our games this year and we are going to continue grinding what we call the 3 P's (pride, poise, percerverance) and see where that takes us. I don't think a high school coach should be obligated to visit with parents about PT or who's playing where, but at the youth level I love having an open, honest approach with my parents. I want as many at practice to see what we are trying to accomplish. I want them to see their kids successes and failures. Makes it much easier to visit after practice with a Dad(or Mom) and say "Did you see son in BP? He's having trouble with ????, or your son is really having trouble with the throw for 3rd, I think he'll have more success at second"
This approach has worked great for me so far and we have harmony on the team and no disgruntled parents as of yet.
gw4s, those are some weird looking cookies, but I'd probably still eat one, cause they are there.
quote:Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
And for the coach...the most important "P" of all...PATIENCE!
Good job Metropop.
Yeah, being patient is key, especially for me. I want to win and win in the worst way. I always have and always will, but I don't expect my little guys to eat, sleep and think baseball 100% of the time right now. We are still in the process of learning how to compete and giving the best effort possible every time we take the field. We are making some good strides and the parents are buying into what we are doing, which helps.
I have to disagree with coachbwww. Just because you aren't starting, it doesn't mean you're not one of the best players on the team. Some HS coaches dare not be questioned at all, or the kid will pay by sitting on the bench. It's not always about winning, with some coaches, it's about paybacks.
Baseballdad91,
In two posts I have herad you give multiple reasons as to why you think your son isnt playing, even though YOU think he's the best player on the team:
1.) You made the coach mad last year
2.) Your son has been black listed
3.) The coach is paying your son back
How bout' you tell us how and what your SON is doing to better himself? Then perhaps more of the HSBBWers can help you to help your son and the situation he is in.
He's a sophomore in highschool, correct?
In two posts I have herad you give multiple reasons as to why you think your son isnt playing, even though YOU think he's the best player on the team:
1.) You made the coach mad last year
2.) Your son has been black listed
3.) The coach is paying your son back
How bout' you tell us how and what your SON is doing to better himself? Then perhaps more of the HSBBWers can help you to help your son and the situation he is in.
He's a sophomore in highschool, correct?
Hey... I spent sometime competing with those camoflage guys out in Kansas....and I found out Kansas isn't flat!! Now, I just shake their hands and tell them thanks.
Of course, that's what I try to do with our coaches. I haven't liked them all, haven't always agreed with them, even the ones I liked. But I've always respected the sacrafices they make to be a part of this game. If it was easy....everybody would do it!! The time and effort required to be even a mediocre coach is more than most people would put in, IMHO.
Not much else to add to this post, except those cookies would be history at my house!!
I've found cookies I didn't like, but have never found one I wouldn't eat!!
Of course, that's what I try to do with our coaches. I haven't liked them all, haven't always agreed with them, even the ones I liked. But I've always respected the sacrafices they make to be a part of this game. If it was easy....everybody would do it!! The time and effort required to be even a mediocre coach is more than most people would put in, IMHO.
Not much else to add to this post, except those cookies would be history at my house!!
I've found cookies I didn't like, but have never found one I wouldn't eat!!
quote:Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
Since you have no disgruntled parents so far this tells me that you have achieved that difficult balance between winning and being fair. Good for you.
When I coached the younger LL players I always figured the top four players were self motivated and had a good handle on the game already.
The middle four were typically good little athletes, but lacked the drive of the top four. I would work with these four to be inspired by the top four and hopefully have them progress upward to become similar to the top players. Now the team has eight out of twelve playing good ball. That's good.
My assistant coach would work with these eight the most while I tended to spend the majority of my time with the bottom four players. Motivating them and teaching them the rudiments. By getting them involved and elevating their confidence they became important contributors to the team's success.
Most seasons our lesser skilled players outperformed the other team's lesser players and this was the difference that made many of the LL teams I coached successful and made the parents happy.
Our teams were characterized by every player getting attention as it suited him, the team winning more often than losing, and coaches, players, and parents all motivated by success. Never had much problem getting kids to show up for practice. They wanted to be there.
And I absolutely know that a very high level of patience was primarily responsible.
I dont know that I have learned the balance between being fair and wanting to win because I have made winning secondary at this point. Ultimately winning is going to be the primary focus but unless my team develops overnight into a fundamentally sound team, we are going to have to learn to compete first. Each pitch is a chance to compete, each AB is a chance to compete. Eventually we'll put innings together and so on, but first year kid pitch offers too many challenges to worry solely about winning. Its easy to forget, but we all had our first year of kid pitch, either as a coach, player or both and I see kids that flourished on the football field or basketball court having a tough time. You know its there, just have to find away to bring it out.
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
Here's my opinion on when I will accept high school coaches who refuse to speak to parents:
When the teacher stops calling me to talk about my kid's grade;
When the principal stops calling me to talk about my kid's behavior;
When the attendance office stops calling me to tell me my kid is not in school;
When the fees clerk stops calling me to tell me my kid's book fees or sport fees or lab fees or lunch fees or gym fees are due;
And when the coach stops calling me to ask me to volunteer to spearhead whatever...
That's when the high school coach can tell me he won't talk to me about my kid.
Do I expect my son/daughter to address issues with the coach first? Absolutely. But I would not hesitate to step in if I felt the coach was not giving my child the courtesy of a complete and honest answer. We have a situation right now with a coach - son has asked for an appointment to talk with the coach, coach says "I'll try to find time". If it doesn't happen within a reasonable amount of time I will do what I have to do to make it happen. Kids are still kids, adults are still adults. Much learning happens through observation; my son can learn a lot by seeing how adults handle their differences.
Sorry I don't seem to see your point here. Your RESPONSIBLE to see that your kid's fees get paid and YOUr responsible for seeing that your kid is in school. That's part of YOUr job as a parent.
The teacher shouldn't be calling; the principal should only be calling in severe cases (your kid was just taken out in handcuffs). Time for them to let go too. It's not their job to raise your kid.
If you have an emergency which requires your son to miss or be late, etc then by all means go talk to the coach. But if your son can take care of it, he SHOULD.
I like the "players play, parents watch, umpires umpire, coaches coach." Too bad it doesn't happen too much. Instead, parents coach, players umpire, and everything gets screwed up.
Bulldog - that's OK... not everyone agrees with my approach. But my point was that my child is still my child until he's an adult. By taking on all the responsibility for all the things I mentioned, I am also, I believe, given certain rights. One of those is the right to have a conversation with anyone who interacts with my child on a regular basis, including a coach. When I no longer have those responsibilities, then the rights transfer to the one who does - my now adult child.
Coaches who say "I'll talk about anything BUT playing time" are really saying "don't bother talking to me, because no matter what I'll assume you're talking about playing time". It's a way of pretending to be approachable and available when you really aren't - letter of the law, not spirit of the law. Coaches are holding pre-season parent meetings because they're being told they have to - I would venture a guess that not many really want to do it, evidenced by the fact that it's a relatively new development. Most coaches would probably prefer that invisible line to stay intact - "don't approach the coach" was the mantra for years. Times have changed, and we can argue if it's for better or worse, but here we are.
The equivalent to me would be a teacher who says "I'll talk to parents about anything but GRADES". Well, my child's grade reflects what goes on in the classroom, so everything eventually comes down to that. I think everyone would agree that teachers should be required to discuss a student with a parent - so why shouldn't a coach be required to do the same?
Like I said, not everyone agrees with me and that's OK. Parents have the right to decide who deals with what issues in their own home and may make the decision that their child should be solely responsible for talking to coach. I just reserve the right to decide differently in my home.
Here's all I expect from a conversation - I ask a question, he tells me how he sees it. Why is my son not playing more? Tell me he messes around too much in practice, he's always late, he can't take instruction or the other guy is just flat out better - just don't tell me it's not something you're willing to discuss.
I also believe coaches have earned certain rights by taking on the responsibility of coaching the team. Chief among those rights is the right to decide who plays where or when. I also believe he has the right to make decisions that parents or players disagree with. But I don't think he has the right to not discuss the whys when asked.
It's pretty easy for an adult to ignore a young person... the intimidation factor is huge. Much harder to ignore another adult, especially one who has experience dealing with conflict. JMO.
Coaches who say "I'll talk about anything BUT playing time" are really saying "don't bother talking to me, because no matter what I'll assume you're talking about playing time". It's a way of pretending to be approachable and available when you really aren't - letter of the law, not spirit of the law. Coaches are holding pre-season parent meetings because they're being told they have to - I would venture a guess that not many really want to do it, evidenced by the fact that it's a relatively new development. Most coaches would probably prefer that invisible line to stay intact - "don't approach the coach" was the mantra for years. Times have changed, and we can argue if it's for better or worse, but here we are.
The equivalent to me would be a teacher who says "I'll talk to parents about anything but GRADES". Well, my child's grade reflects what goes on in the classroom, so everything eventually comes down to that. I think everyone would agree that teachers should be required to discuss a student with a parent - so why shouldn't a coach be required to do the same?
Like I said, not everyone agrees with me and that's OK. Parents have the right to decide who deals with what issues in their own home and may make the decision that their child should be solely responsible for talking to coach. I just reserve the right to decide differently in my home.
Here's all I expect from a conversation - I ask a question, he tells me how he sees it. Why is my son not playing more? Tell me he messes around too much in practice, he's always late, he can't take instruction or the other guy is just flat out better - just don't tell me it's not something you're willing to discuss.
I also believe coaches have earned certain rights by taking on the responsibility of coaching the team. Chief among those rights is the right to decide who plays where or when. I also believe he has the right to make decisions that parents or players disagree with. But I don't think he has the right to not discuss the whys when asked.
It's pretty easy for an adult to ignore a young person... the intimidation factor is huge. Much harder to ignore another adult, especially one who has experience dealing with conflict. JMO.
I'm a talker - if a parent wants to talk then I am all ears except usually after a game. If they want to talking playing time or position or batting lineup then I don't because it usually ends up bad. If we lose then I am ****ed off and really don't want to hear it but if we win and some parent wants to complain then it brings down my happiness of a win.
If you want to talk on a day off, my planning period or even after practice that is fine with me. I don't care. I'm going to tell you the truth and don't really expect me to make any real commitments. I'm not going to say "Hey Little Johnny will be starting at CF next year" because it may not happen. I don't think I should have to make any sort of commitment like that.
I actually keep my parents up to date through email. If we need a booster club meeting or if there is a showcase or anything that needs to be discussed I shoot the information to one parent who has all the addresses and she sends it out to everyone else. It works great.
Do I owe the parent anything in the meeting? I'm not sure because I would rather deal with the kid but they are still the parent and if the parent is against the coach then the player will be against the coach. If a player has to choose between a coach or a parent the parent is going to win everytime. I'm not going out of my way to alienate the parent but i'm not going to blow smoke up their rear either. They ask a question they better be ready for the answer because I am going to tell them.
If you want to talk on a day off, my planning period or even after practice that is fine with me. I don't care. I'm going to tell you the truth and don't really expect me to make any real commitments. I'm not going to say "Hey Little Johnny will be starting at CF next year" because it may not happen. I don't think I should have to make any sort of commitment like that.
I actually keep my parents up to date through email. If we need a booster club meeting or if there is a showcase or anything that needs to be discussed I shoot the information to one parent who has all the addresses and she sends it out to everyone else. It works great.
Do I owe the parent anything in the meeting? I'm not sure because I would rather deal with the kid but they are still the parent and if the parent is against the coach then the player will be against the coach. If a player has to choose between a coach or a parent the parent is going to win everytime. I'm not going out of my way to alienate the parent but i'm not going to blow smoke up their rear either. They ask a question they better be ready for the answer because I am going to tell them.
quote:Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
Metropop,
We didn't really emphasize winning as much as we found ways to win with what we had.
Trust me Gotwood4sale,
We are on the same page on this deal. We are just saying it a little differently. I am going to do everything I can to win with what we have now because this team could and probably will be a good little ball team. Right now though we have to learn how to stay in the game each pitch, each out...etc
The kids are 8 and 9, so we have some that are staying in the game and some aren't. Its a process and I just refer to it as learning to compete.
"They tell the parents up front that those issues are only discussed between the coach and the player, and the player may talk to the coach anytime outside of practice or a game about it."
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cplz:
I am just wondering what would the parents talk to the coach about then--uniform color selection? Coaches who refuse to talk to parents are cowards,plain and simple. They know they can bully a 15 year old and for all their machismo blustering about winning and maximum effort, they refuse to confront problems head on. Parents can be unreasonable and so can coaches. That's why they have administrators to handle the conflicts. Blanket rules against talking to the coach are wrong. The coach is teacher like every other teacher at that school, and, as a teacher, he must answer if his student is not performing. If your coach can't deal with adults how will he/she deal with kids. Well maybe I know. The old coaching model was that coaches yell at the kids and the kids play. Cooperation and group harmony was discouraged as "unmanly." With some evolving we know that model of leadership just doesn't work today. Even the military ( I noticed your avatar) realizes this and the goal is communication and cooperation not some barking drill instructor mentality. By the way, it doesn't mean a lack of discipline either, it means using things that motivate kids to work harder and play better--like playing all your kids when the score is out of reach, and giving the team input on practices. Things like that that affirm the dignity of the player.
*********************
cplz:
I am just wondering what would the parents talk to the coach about then--uniform color selection? Coaches who refuse to talk to parents are cowards,plain and simple. They know they can bully a 15 year old and for all their machismo blustering about winning and maximum effort, they refuse to confront problems head on. Parents can be unreasonable and so can coaches. That's why they have administrators to handle the conflicts. Blanket rules against talking to the coach are wrong. The coach is teacher like every other teacher at that school, and, as a teacher, he must answer if his student is not performing. If your coach can't deal with adults how will he/she deal with kids. Well maybe I know. The old coaching model was that coaches yell at the kids and the kids play. Cooperation and group harmony was discouraged as "unmanly." With some evolving we know that model of leadership just doesn't work today. Even the military ( I noticed your avatar) realizes this and the goal is communication and cooperation not some barking drill instructor mentality. By the way, it doesn't mean a lack of discipline either, it means using things that motivate kids to work harder and play better--like playing all your kids when the score is out of reach, and giving the team input on practices. Things like that that affirm the dignity of the player.
Stage:
They're coming out whether I (or anyone else for that matter) like it or not!
They're coming out whether I (or anyone else for that matter) like it or not!
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
The kid who truly works his a** off and still falls short will always be a WINNER! IMO
The person who is disappointed in a young kid who works his a** off and still falls short will always be a LOSER! IMO
A baseball coach who doesn't care whether the guys on the bench love the game or not... is a fool and doesn't really love the game himself. IMO
Any youth coach in the world who doesn't care about every player he coaches... Is one terrible youth coach who has no business coaching young kids. IMO
AMEN!!