LLWS 2013

I figured we couldn't get through the LLWS without dumping on it.

They don't send the best umpires.
They send senior umpires. There's also a lot of politics.

But the umpires pay their own way and use up vacation time to volunteer. Thank you umpires.

Why didn't they stop the DE-CA game and fix the mound?

 

Now I know how Elvis felt when he shot his TV.

 

Good post.  Amen to that.

Sultan of swat,
Not sure the mound was causing all of the slipping. I played the Delaware team in states and they are very dramatic.

It would be nice if ESPN could focus more of the fun of the game rather than the "fun" at the LLS. Those kids aren't happy and all smiles when they lose.... 

 

more importantly: 

 

I may never buy Frosted Flakes again. I loathe those commercials! 

Very impressed with the Czech Republic  

I must be in procrastination mode because I'm going to reply to this.

 

1. I agree. After a three year run, the Frosted Flakes commercial IS OFFICIALLY the most annoying commercial ever and the dad is guaranteed to be the worst  helicopter parent ever. (or at least he would be if he was a real person)  OTOH I do like the fact that this animated tiger keeps barging in and the dad and boy totally dis him.
2. Who cares what Jose Canseco thinks about anything?
3. If we talk about the umps being horrible, then we're talking 99% about balls and strikes, because pretty much everything else is subject to review so it doesn't matter how bad the calls are, and they haven't looked particularly bad anyway, from what I've seen.  As for balls and strikes, with a few exceptions the zones have looked to be ridiculously huge, which would seem to really suck were it not for fact that they've been consistently so.  I'm not sure exactly why that is. Certainly if you've not watched younger leagues lately, the high strike can be a surprise, but that's  what it is. The extreme width of the zone most are calling is another matter.  A LL zone is wider in general, but this year it seems so much more so that I'm wondering if LL gave these guys a big pep talk about opening up their zones to make the kids swing, just as many UICs do at the local level.  It may also be that the speed and quality of pitching is difficult to catch up to, not just for batters, but for umps who call regular old Majors games often.  Usually in a given league, you might see a couple or maybe a few guys who pitch 65mph+ and about the same number who can really break off a quality curve.  But at the LLWS,  65+ is the average, and each team seems to have at least one kid hitting 75mph, and every  kid there has at least one decent breaking ball.  Maybe the hitters are not the only ones having trouble catching up.

Wow, walk off HBP in an elimination game! What a bummer for them.

 

My son has some empathy - he lost a complete game against a huge rival this year on a walk off wild pitch.  Stuff happens, I guess.

 

And I agree with everything JCG said....

The large LLWS strike zone is criticized every August.

The large zone ensures the games will fit into the TV time slot.

Nothing wrong with this,  both teams have to deal with the same zone.

 

 

IMHO, the LLWS strike zone isn't much larger than the typical HSV strike zone.

 

The main difference is, the over-sized LLWS zone is exposed by CF cameras.

 

When an amateur zone is over-sized,  my default assumption is that it's because of incentive--move the game along-- rather than incompetence.

 

 

I can't watch much as I get angered over the non-stop curveballs, gushed over by the announcers...with not a word about how these guys could well be trashing their arms before they become a  teenager... and some of these kids are just HUGE..at what age does PED testing start? (kidding here)

These 6'2" guys throwing 70 mph won't be pitching in HS anyway.  Let them have their glory.

I think that's a good assumption, and I'll take most of these guys call on a borderline 3-2 pitch than the call of a travelball ump who is on his 5th game of the day and can't wait to get to the parking lot, take off his plate shows, and crack a frosty from his cooler.

Just a comment. In Cooperstown, New York there is a baseball tournament for 12 year olds. It's a huge tournament with teams from all over the country. Some California teams will fly pitchers in and out for games. It's really competitive. I had the opportunity to play there, and all the umpires there were volunteer. They were the most fair umpires I have ever experienced. Just saying volunteer umpires aren't always bad. They're not trying to rush out of the game by calling balls strikes because they are volunteering their time! I will say that the umpires at LLWS are awful.

Auz,
Was just at this tournament last week and you're right, the umpires are probably the fairest umps I've ever had. They were all very consistent. And a team from Las Vegas actually flew kids in from Florida, New York, CA, and Texas. Most competitive tourney I've ever played in. We came in 10th out of 104.

I would much rather see the Cooperstown championship televised every week and other travel ball national championships televised on Espn and abc.

Cooperstown is the second best baseball experience we've had as a family. They were good umpires six years ago as well. 

 

We think there are 3 issues with the LLWS umpires

 

1. nerves - they are on TV! With instant replay! nerves!!

2. 10 year wait list? Why not just take the best ones from around the country?

3. They are only used to working a 2 man crew - mechanics/rotations are different now

 

 

 

 

 

Coached LL for 7 years.  You learn to live with the umpiring.

 

The Conn coach needs to repeat this motto:

 

You can't win tomorrow if you don't win today. 

 

Taking your 2nd best pitcher out when he had 15 pitches left to get 2 outs just so that he'd be available TOMORROW IF YOU LOST THIS GAME.  Kid gets 2 outs, you pitch your ace on Saturday, and this kid can come back on Sunday.

 

 

Why is everyone knocking the LLWS? Its a great venue for what it is. A bunch of young kids that had to get through a lot of qualifying to get there. TB is totally different, especially Cooperstown. Just about anyone can go, it is not earned like the LLWS. I look forward to watching it every year because it is truly a World Series event.

 

While a lot of that is true, it really is no longer "little league."  Most of the "all star" teams are really travel teams, with off season training and the like. 

 

Add the fact that the field is too small for these kids, no leads, and other Little league rules, it really isn't all that it is cracked up to be.  LL is behind the times.  In my area, they are now moving to a 50/70 field.   

 

Nothing against the kids playing.  They are good ball players.  They have worked hard.  But for most of them, it is a step down.  They could do very will on a larger field. 

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but its all about the experience and having fun at this very young age. As many have said, what they do here at this age, be it LL or TB does not really matter. I for one saw LL as a right of passage for myself as well as my sons. 

I'm not dumping on the LLWS generally, and I'm especially not dumping on the players.

 

I am dumping on the LLUSA management's insistence on subjecting those players, whose hopes and dreams are heavily tied up in this event, to the worst umpires ever exposed on national television.  And they continue to do it year after year, even when it has become painfully evident to everyone just how bad things are.  It's not unusual for the outcome of a game, and thus of the tournament, to turn on one or more bad calls, or the complete incompetence on balls and strikes.

 

They are making a fortune.  For Pete's sake, let loose a little cash and solve this problem with some PAID umpires.  Let's get guys whose umpiring skills were examined and approved before they were let on the field.  If the current volunteers want to be part of the event, they can apply, or they can sit in the stands and be fans like the rest of us. 

 

The first thing I would do is subject all applicants to a questionnaire.  The first question would be, "Describe your strike zone."  The correct answer would be a direct reference to the rule book, or quoting from the rule book.  Anyone indicating a willingness to even discuss "MY strike zone" should be excluded.

 

These kids are skilled enough to be able to throw strikes.  They are also skilled enough to throw it a foot outside if they learn that the ump is calling that a strike.  And they are skilled enough to learn, as a game progresses, that they have to swing at balls they couldn't reach with an oar, balls that bounce, etc.  I just don't see why any of that should happen.  For all the PR talk about how these kids are the best etc., they treat them like tee ballers who need some sort of affirmative action umpiring to get through 18 outs. 

 

Worse, when the rules are not enforced as written, it opens up questions of umpire bias.  That undermines the entire event.

And by the way, if you have never actually worked within Little League, you may not appreciate the chasm that exists between the bureaucrats in Williamsport and the people who make the whole thing work at the local level.  The Williamsport people raise officious intermeddling to an art form, and are surpassed in that regard only by the NCAA.  If I were starting a youth league today, I would stay totally independent and put  our all stars into open tournaments.  I would never turn over the decision making control to Williamsport.

It's time for a little perspective. Every year the same whine and geez party breaks out on this board during the LLWS. We're talking about preteen boys (some have just turned 13) not the MLB World Series. Who cares if the umpiring isn't pro baseball level? Neither are the players. LL is a community event. If you replace LL umpires with paid professionals you take away part of the community feel. If you've ever been to the LLWS you can feel it's a community coming together at it's Mecca.

 

For those who would rather see a travel tournament broadcast, it won't work. When cable networks try the ratings are very low. A casual baseball fan channel surfer can't identify with the Bombers versus the Aces. But he can identify with New England versus the Midwest. He may even follow his region throughout the tournament.

 

LL is trialing 50/70 open bases in selected LLs. It's how LL does things. Expected it to become an open choice for all LLs soon. As for all the money LL makes it's funneled back into the program. LLs new thing is PED awareness programs for kids.

 

As for Midlo's comments on organizational management I agree. I was involved in both LL and Ripken. I told people in the past while Ripken tells you not to mess up the bathroom, LL tells you what tp to use, when to flush and where to file the report.

 

HAhahahahah, makes me remember when LL was behind us and we thought High School would be SOooooo much better. An "Old Timer" told me "remember, they're JV Umps"

i watched 3 games of. the Cal Ripken finals. really fun to watch as compared to LLWS. if only the Ripken league had as many camera angles and cameras. i think the 50/70 is more fun to watch, or maybe just different. good games anyway.

Volunteer umps are a part of LL culture, and that will not change. But selection on merit rather than seniority would be nice.

 

@RJM:  As of this year 50-70 baseball is now part of LL.  Local leagues can play that, or 60’ baseball, or both. I believe that Majors should be 50-70, but for a variety of reasons they thought giving up 60’ Majors would seriously damage their product.  I think they choked big time on that decision. 

 

@Midlo Dad:   Williamsport serves a purpose.  Whether you agree with all of the rules or not, the heavy hand of Williamsport and uniformity of rules around the world (in theory at least) means that everywhere you go, catchers must wear throat guards, there is no on-deck circle, pitch counts are adhered to, etc.  If you don’t have that central control, then one day a well-meaning officer of your  independent local league will decide that the silly “coaches may not warm up pitchers” rule is  no  longer necessary.   A year later, another guy decides that he likes the way they have 4 outfielders on his softball team, and the next thing you know there are 4 strikes to an out and 4 outs to an inning.  We had a LL board member who figured that since he had done so much work on our park, his team could chew seeds and ignore pitch count rules.  The almighty Green Book and the power of Williamsport makes it easy to put the kibosh on that.  Even if your independent league is run by smart people who respect the game and put the kids first, your board  will turn over in a few years as kids age out of the league, and the incoming gang could be totally clueless and destroy your league.  Staying within LL  prevents them from doing too much damage.

 

@20dad - Ripken is good too, and I think they have done the right thing with 50/70.

A local league will be as good as the local people behind it. I was with a Ripken program that needed more direction. I was with a LL program that required less from the top

Yea it is great, we came in 30th. It's a hard tournament.

I actually find it funny, with the announcing and everything. They make it seem so important. Yea it is awesome that these teams beat out countries, and in some cases a whole continent to get there, but it's only because the team has a bunch of kids who are way too big to be playing Little League. It's hilarious, you have a kid who is six four playing against kids who are as tall as the bat they swing. Being a high school player I think that the bats are wayyy too light for these players, and that the no leading policy is stupid. Little League is a fun league, and playing in districts and states is fun, (I played myself), the whole world series concept is kind of stupid. They should have a big league world series for like 15 or 16 year olds instead.

Just a comment on Cooperstown.  The 10U tournament was/is the really tough tournament, as it is invite only.  Not sure the 10U tourney is still happening, but that use to be the way it was done and THE 10U tournament to attend.  One 10U week per year.  The 12U is much less competitive, as anyone can go to the 12U, and there are several weeks of 12U tournaments.  12U is still competitive, draws a few very good teams each week, but also draws many not so good teams each week.  I try to just enjoy the LLWS for what it is.  Many flaws, but still fun to watch.   

Here is the link for travel balls version of the LLWS. It is the NYBC and it happens every year for 12u. Some of the games will be on TV also, the talent is much deeper then LLWS but the experience is not even close

http://www.mlb.com/youthmajors/

They have it for all divisions of LL. I played in the Big League division (16yr-18yr) world series a long time ago same countries as you see on TV.  

I like the fact that they've apparently stopped obsessing about pitch speeds. The last few years was driving me crazy with MLB equivalents. I have heard no mention of this by any commentators of games I've watched. Thank you.

The next improvement would be if they'd stop obsessing with comparing the tallest players to the shortest ones.

 

The height disparities have always been there, but they were made worse by the decision now several years back to move the aging date from August 1 to May 1.  More and more kids who are rising 8th graders, fully 13+ and well into puberty, are on the field now.  At that age, the extra 3 months is significant.

 

Frankly, it's dangerous.  I wouldn't want my son standing 40' from a 6'4" man child after releasing a pitch. 

 

There once was talk about the Aug 1 -- May 1 move being the first step towards someday moving all the way back to January 1.  The idea was to align all youth baseball aging dates with USA Baseball and the international rules.  Leaving aside that that goal was completely unimportant to anyone -- indeed, it made a mess by increasing the extent to which the neighborhood kids were not at the same age level as many of their school classmates --  it would be OK to do complete the shift to January 1 if they would, at the same time, cap the Majors division at what would then be the 11u level.  The result of that would be that you would have effectively reduced the age cap for Majors play by 5 months, when viewed over the long haul. Again, a significant move when we're talking about kids right around the age of puberty. 

 

To me, that would help a LOT.  You could stop worrying about converting to 50/70 dimensions, etc.  And that is important in and of itself, because all over the country there are 46/60 fields that cannot easily be converted to the larger dimensions.

Maybe I'm missing something, didn't moving the date mean fewer older players?

No.  In fact, the year the change occurred, there were dozens of players in each league who had already completed their 12 year-old year who were suddenly eligible to play one more year of Little League. 

 

The old rule required that a child be 12 on July 31 in order to be "league age 12,"  The new rule requires that a child be 12 on April 30.  All those kids who turn 13 between May 1 and July 31 are now league age 12 when before they would be league age 13.

Got it. I haven't been involved with LL for years (mainly because of their methods of managing umpires) and forgot that was the way they worded their eligibility dates, as opposed to a cut-off date.