quote:Originally posted by Sandman:quote:Originally posted by baseballpapa:
Can you blow up the right-handed hitter like you did Rose?
I'm not sure who it is? Is it Rose from the other side?
It's Rose on both sides.
It's Rose on both sides.
It's Rose on both sides.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PGStaff:
Hate to argue, but I actually see the straight part of the hand path in that swing.
The inside line of the batters box shows Rose's top hand first appears on top of the line somewhere near the back of home plate. The top hand does not appear to cross the line and appears to continue fairly closely on that line for about 17 inches as he rotates. [QUOTE]
Are these all straight lines too or do they just look it?
Hate to argue, but I actually see the straight part of the hand path in that swing.
The inside line of the batters box shows Rose's top hand first appears on top of the line somewhere near the back of home plate. The top hand does not appear to cross the line and appears to continue fairly closely on that line for about 17 inches as he rotates. [QUOTE]
Are these all straight lines too or do they just look it?
My first post was before I saw Sandman's great work.
I now change my argument.
Look at the bottom hand very closely. Forget Sandman's path and just look at that bottom hand. I'm fairly certain I see it exactly over the line for about 8-9 inches. Don't I? Don't you guys?
In other words in that clip the hands rotate quickly in every segment except the one where they go past the plate.
By the time I get this posted, suppose there will be several more posts. You guys are hard to catch up to.
I now change my argument.
Look at the bottom hand very closely. Forget Sandman's path and just look at that bottom hand. I'm fairly certain I see it exactly over the line for about 8-9 inches. Don't I? Don't you guys?
In other words in that clip the hands rotate quickly in every segment except the one where they go past the plate.
By the time I get this posted, suppose there will be several more posts. You guys are hard to catch up to.
Sandman,
I think the line passing the plate would be longer than all the other straight lines.
Sorry
I think the line passing the plate would be longer than all the other straight lines.
Sorry
quote:Originally posted by baseballpapa:
Can you blow up the right-handed hitter like you did Rose?
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
My first post was before I saw Sandman's great work.
I now change my argument.
Look at the bottom hand very closely. Forget Sandman's path and just look at that bottom hand. I'm fairly certain I see it exactly over the line for about 8-9 inches. Don't I? Don't you guys?
In other words in that clip the hands rotate quickly in every segment except the one where they go past the plate.
By the time I get this posted, suppose there will be several more posts. You guys are hard to catch up to.
I can see what you're saying PG... they do seem to kinda stay straight for just a tad longer there.
However... I still don't think this can by any stretch of the imagination be considered "straight line to the ball" (or whatever others "handsy" cues get used), can it?
quote:Look at the hands traveling toward ball Papa and you will see they pull away toward first base chalkline before contact of ball therefore not remaining in a straight line to contact
Your welcome for the photos PaPa, Coach Little said hello in clip(I thought was rolling) to you PaPa and your son. Will probably call Tommy.
That statement I first made to PaPa would support that short segment of beginning of rotation as straight line for about 8-9 inches as Jerry points out even though Sand's great artwork looks circular all-the-way. peace Shep
quote:Originally posted by Infopimp:
Sandman
As if you don't have anything to do.
Draw a line from Rose's hands starting point to the ball at contact. And another to where his hands are at contact.
That would represent a straight line hand path. That would also require extension at the elbows to counter the rotating shoulders and still get the hands to the target.
Doesn't happen.
Now I'm having trouble keeping up!
Thank you.
Sandman,
No, I wasn't talking about straight line to the ball. And I do see the rotation in the swing. I also think within that rotation most great hitters will have a spot that gets linear for just a split hair longer and it is through the hitting zone.
I'm not sure whoever mentioned a straight line was meaning the same thing that pimp thought. I think he might have meant keeping things short within rotation rather than reaching. Maybe not?
Once again, I suppose there will be 3 or 4 posts before I get this posted. Always behind... story of my life!
No, I wasn't talking about straight line to the ball. And I do see the rotation in the swing. I also think within that rotation most great hitters will have a spot that gets linear for just a split hair longer and it is through the hitting zone.
I'm not sure whoever mentioned a straight line was meaning the same thing that pimp thought. I think he might have meant keeping things short within rotation rather than reaching. Maybe not?
Once again, I suppose there will be 3 or 4 posts before I get this posted. Always behind... story of my life!
No No Sandman. You're playing cinematic tricks on us now bro fo sho.
Look at RHH a few replies up....no way is ball hit this deep in hitting zone.
Shep
Look at RHH a few replies up....no way is ball hit this deep in hitting zone.
Shep
quote:Originally posted by Infopimp:
Thank you.
YW. I also just added the hand path arc to the same pic w/ the lines.
Ditto. Thank you for correcting that Sand. peace Shep
quote:Originally posted by Shepster:
No No Sandman. You're playing cinematic tricks on us now bro fo sho.
Look at RHH a few replies up....no way is ball hit this deep in hitting zone.
Shep
Huh?
quote:pimp thought.
Sand
Talking about that straight lines you created when you know it's circular before you added other curved line ...that's why IP said thank you because you corrected yourself by adding additional circular line,
peace. Shep
Talking about that straight lines you created when you know it's circular before you added other curved line ...that's why IP said thank you because you corrected yourself by adding additional circular line,
peace. Shep
ahhhh
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Sandman,
No, I wasn't talking about straight line to the ball. ... I'm not sure whoever mentioned a straight line was meaning the same thing that pimp thought. I think he might have meant keeping things short within rotation rather than reaching. Maybe not?
I know you didn't write it PG, but baseballpapa did:
quote:The path of the hands is a straight line (linear). The shortest distance to any point is always a straight line.
Rose RH looks the same... From this angle his hands at front corner of plate to the next stop action appear straight despite the line drawn. Do they not?
Jerry has a valid point fellas. RHH Rose clip does show hands remaining in a straighter line for a few more inches opposed to the LHH Rose clip fo sho. Up past front corner of plate or at least even with corner of plate. peace
Shep Acknowledges
Shep Acknowledges
Are you suggesting that he starts circular, straightens his hands for a frame or two (1/30th to 1/15th of a second time lapse) and then returns circular?
Think about it.
Think about it.
No actually IP I know from your teachings to me that the hands are circular all the way through and never "really" straight at any point in swing. peace
Shep
Shep
quote:Are you suggesting that he starts circular, straightens his hands for a frame or two (1/30th to 1/15th of a second time lapse) and then returns circular?
To be honest I think that is exactly what I see. Though, the clip from the right side could be a slight adjustment made to stay on the outside pitch.
Sandman acknowledges too... that there is a small portion of the total amount the hands move (from after stride to contact) that is straighter than all of the rest of their path.
But, the bottom line is that the old adage of "shortest path between 2 points is a straight line" still does not seem to fit the baseball swing, as it suggests that the hands would move as Infopimp asked me to draw on the LH Rose... in a straight line from launch to contact.
But, the bottom line is that the old adage of "shortest path between 2 points is a straight line" still does not seem to fit the baseball swing, as it suggests that the hands would move as Infopimp asked me to draw on the LH Rose... in a straight line from launch to contact.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Though, the clip from the right side could be a slight adjustment made to stay on the outside pitch.
Good point, PG! Which drives home the point that, unlike the other dozens of clips floating around, there are only a few from overhead, and hardly any (if any?) of middle and inside pitches. IOW... if we concede that perhaps an outside pitch might make a hitter "hang on" just a tad longer and not be trying to turn as hard/fast as he can... then maybe our sampling size just isn't big enough to conclude that all hitters swing their hands in straight line? (not saying anyone actually claimed that)
Now, I really must shut off my photo and animation editors and get to bed!
Agree Sandman.
BTW, Mr. Ford, I have no idea who (Hardball 10) is who has been posting on PG message board directly to me. He won't answer PM even though he acts like he is boosom buddy or something-LOL
The slant of (Hardball 10) does suggest a bit of bias toward possible draftpicks or suggestion thereof...Just thought I would let you know sir. Hadn't had need for liquid courage for many years now.
Shep
BTW, Mr. Ford, I have no idea who (Hardball 10) is who has been posting on PG message board directly to me. He won't answer PM even though he acts like he is boosom buddy or something-LOL
The slant of (Hardball 10) does suggest a bit of bias toward possible draftpicks or suggestion thereof...Just thought I would let you know sir. Hadn't had need for liquid courage for many years now.
Shep
I don't know who he is. Not sure I know what you mean. Maybe I need to spend less time here and more there. It's just a lot more interesting over here most of the time.
I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about the Rose swing and the rotation of the shoulders.
I heard Bonds say on TV some years ago that he was loading with his shoulders to the shortstop. His dad pointed that out to him. He said he worked on keeping his shoulders down "the line" to second base. His hand path would be rotating down a straght line if he does keep his shoulders in a parallel line to the line the flight of the ball creates.
If you keep the shoulders parallel to the line of the flight of the ball you have to be shorter to the hitting area. With some this would sacrifice power.
Pete Rose had to have an angular swing because his shoulders are at a 45 degree angle to the line of the flight of the ball. (Draw a line through his shoulders and another line from the pitcher's delivery to the catchers mitt. The shoulders are not on the same line.)
I also agree most hitters have a front shoulder turn. Therefore, the swing HAS to be an angular swing.
Take all major league players and look at all extra base hits to total hits. The average is 33% (it was 34% the year before). Pete Rose had a life-time 1041 extra base hits to 4,256 total hits. He ran at 24% extra base hits which is below average power, and by quite some bit.
Interesting paradox. Angular motion is faster than linear motion. However, the hitter who keeps his shoulders parallel to the line of the flight of the ball (Bonds and Sosa) has more power than the hitter who doesn't (Rose).
Barry Bonds swing, if he is taking the front shoulder load out would be less angular and would be more like rotating down a straight line. However, his extra base hits as a percentage of total hits is much higher than Rose.
Do one more mental exercise. Exaggerate the shoulder turn and make it all the way to third base on the left-handed batter and to first base on the right-handed batter. The angular swing would be even more pronounced. It would be harder to get to extension and the path would be even more around the ball.
Think also of a pitcher that "over-rotates." How do they "get down the line." They generally are the pitchers that "fall off." They lose force through the ball and go around the ball.
Sosa when he could hit kept his shoulders "down the line" and now he rotates his shoulders. How was he better? I am going to even more teach the shoulders down the line. I going to emphasize even more to rotate down the line. Thanks for the video. (My kid's highschool career is so far 48% extra base hits to total hits).
I heard Bonds say on TV some years ago that he was loading with his shoulders to the shortstop. His dad pointed that out to him. He said he worked on keeping his shoulders down "the line" to second base. His hand path would be rotating down a straght line if he does keep his shoulders in a parallel line to the line the flight of the ball creates.
If you keep the shoulders parallel to the line of the flight of the ball you have to be shorter to the hitting area. With some this would sacrifice power.
Pete Rose had to have an angular swing because his shoulders are at a 45 degree angle to the line of the flight of the ball. (Draw a line through his shoulders and another line from the pitcher's delivery to the catchers mitt. The shoulders are not on the same line.)
I also agree most hitters have a front shoulder turn. Therefore, the swing HAS to be an angular swing.
Take all major league players and look at all extra base hits to total hits. The average is 33% (it was 34% the year before). Pete Rose had a life-time 1041 extra base hits to 4,256 total hits. He ran at 24% extra base hits which is below average power, and by quite some bit.
Interesting paradox. Angular motion is faster than linear motion. However, the hitter who keeps his shoulders parallel to the line of the flight of the ball (Bonds and Sosa) has more power than the hitter who doesn't (Rose).
Barry Bonds swing, if he is taking the front shoulder load out would be less angular and would be more like rotating down a straight line. However, his extra base hits as a percentage of total hits is much higher than Rose.
Do one more mental exercise. Exaggerate the shoulder turn and make it all the way to third base on the left-handed batter and to first base on the right-handed batter. The angular swing would be even more pronounced. It would be harder to get to extension and the path would be even more around the ball.
Think also of a pitcher that "over-rotates." How do they "get down the line." They generally are the pitchers that "fall off." They lose force through the ball and go around the ball.
Sosa when he could hit kept his shoulders "down the line" and now he rotates his shoulders. How was he better? I am going to even more teach the shoulders down the line. I going to emphasize even more to rotate down the line. Thanks for the video. (My kid's highschool career is so far 48% extra base hits to total hits).
Religion is a tough thing to overcome.
Beautiful punch hitter's swing. He gets the hands out front early and drags the bat through the zone. You can see he doesn't generate a ton of bat speed doing this but nothing is going to get by him. Good way to get a lot of hits in a career if you can run a bit.
How many of you are teaching your kids to be punch hitters?
How many of you are teaching your kids to be punch hitters?
