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looking for advice

TC Toronto Cardinals10+ posts
I have a player who is in his senior year at high school and he and his family are looking for some advice with regards to college choices. He has been contacting schools since the fall of ’07 and has had some interest from 3 or 4 Div I and II schools, but the extent of that interest has been restricted mostly to invites to camps and showcases. One of the Div I schools had him for an ‘unofficial’ visit last spring. None of the schools have contacted him directly or invited him for an official visit. He has been invited to and attended a visit to a Div II Junior College in Nov /08 and the coach verbally made mention that he was very interested in the boy and has been in contact with him over the winter. The player is unsure if he should wait and see if any of the NCAA Div I or II schools show any serious interest closer to the April signing period or should he commit to the JC and try and get into an NCAA school from there. Here are some of his attributes:
6”1’
185 lbs
Throws – R
Bats - S
Fastball - 84 MPH
From Position - 82 MPH
Positions: SS, RHP
60 yd - 7.00

Here is a link to a visual profile of the boy.

http://profiles.berecruited.com/athletes/391314

Any advice that I could send back to the parents would be appreciated.
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G GoodPitching10+ posts
I would have just a few questions / observations. You state that he is a RHP who throws 84mph. Does he have good movement and control of his FB. Does he possess an acurate breaking ball or change up? 84mph for a righthander isn't usually D1 material unless he can find an opening in a weaker division up north. The showcase invites were a good way to show off his talent, although you really must keep in mind that this is also the way the baseball programs make money. So I would be selective about which ones to attend. You won't usually get an invite from a letter, you have to show them what you've got. Sometimes a DVD helps to create an interest. Official visits come if there is a strong interest in recruiting the player and from what you've written, this does not sound like this is the case.

Good elite baseball programs spend a lot of time (and money)showcasing their players to appropriate colleges and universities in the US. The early signing period for NCAA is usually reserved for talent that these schools have targeted over the past season. I would venture to say that although it's not always the case, a lot if not most of their scholarship money has been spent. If obtaining a scholarship is not the goal, you could inquire about walk ons. Although a walk on would really have to shine to earn a spot on the roster. If he has a DII JC showing interest, I'd stay in contact with that coach & try to arrange a visit. A lot of players transfer to DI & II schools after JC.

Good luck!
Last edited by GoodPitching
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Frankly, I think this young man is going to be a tough sell.
His stats are not too exciting from what I saw. Sometimes stats are mis leading but when I look at guys I know in US college ball, he doesn't stand out.
I agree that the camps are fund raisers and if he showed promise he would have generated some interest not just camp invites.
The recruiting site doesn't answer any academic questions. Is he registered with the NCAA clearing house and what are his scores/marks etc.
There is so much quality competition that he really needs to stand out. He needs a quality DVD and I would stick to pitching. I also agree that if he is looking at JC it might be the best route to get his performance up. He needs to show something and that site doesn't do it.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I agree with Bobblehead.
To be noticed by any program ALL players need something that stands out. One thing must make up for loss of another. For pitchers, what's special that can seperates him from others, sinking FB, slider, good off speed stuff, not afraid pitch inside, honor student, team leader?
e's a switch hitter who pitches, not sure why someone would not market it accordingly.
Last edited by TPM
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
BHD - I am not sure your advice is consistent anymore. One month ago, you were the champion of the underdog arguing that a kid, under 6 ft. tall, and whose velocity was lower than posted here, should try and get into one of the top collegiate summer leagues in America. Now you think this kid throwing harder in high school is a tough sell Which stat didn't you like btw? The .377 BA or the 1.95 ERA?

I think what this kid needs to do is establish a base. Find at least one program that will accept him (athletically and academically) and work from there. Waiting for the phone to ring is a horrible strategy. Waiting for a D1 offer is even worse.

Find a program, perhaps a juco as has been suggested, where he can play. After he has something established, maybe then one of these other things (D1, D2, etc.) will pan out for him. From the video clips, he looks like he can play imho. He might need some development but who doesn't coming out of high school. You do not need overwhelming talent to play in college but you need to be decent. This kid at least looks like he has decent talent. I think it is all up to him. Start contacting schools and find something that will work for him. Be much more proactive than waiting for someone to call based off his website or some other promotional trick. At the bare minimum, he could e-mail his website link to all the schools he thinks might be interested or he has a chance to compete at. I would start at the bottom and work my way up until I found a fit.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
CD I am very consistent. There are lots of 85mph guys in D1 BB. I just didn't elaborate.
The website I posted shows guys with sub 85 mph FBs going to colleges. That is one reason I posted it. My comments were more about poor marketing. If the guy had amazing stats especially FB 90+ he would get lots of interest. His hitting was OK etc most guys hit for more power based on his info. We had 4 guy who hit 10+ HRS in their final year before college.
As I said stats aren't everything but you can't rely on poor marketing if you don't have numbers that peak a coaches interest. I also based my opinion on the fact that he has been seen and not chased by those that have seen him.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
Find at least one program that will accept him (athletically and academically) and work from there. Waiting for the phone to ring is a horrible strategy. Waiting for a D1 offer is even worse.


I have to agree with CD here. Very similar to where my son was in high school except he was dealing with small D-1, mid-size, and large D-1's but our approach was as CD suggested. He wanted to play at a large D-1 but the first offer and only offer for a while was a small D-1. I can remember the first offer my son received. He was disappointed in a way because it was a smaller D-1. I remember telling him: "At least you have something in your pocket you can fall back on." We remained proactive and other doors opened. I call it developing "options". There are a lot of ingredients that go into a successful match between a player and a program. Few players are predestined to a particular college division by their talent alone ---- In this case some have determined his talent and his limits by 3 small videos clips. UNFAIR! The young man may end up at the JUCO but that should not be determined TODAY. Recruiting is a ride --- not an event.
Fungo
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
CD,
While I don't always agree with bobbleheaddad, I do not see anything he posted that would lead to the above post. And the way I read into both, both bring up teh same points.
Based on the link provided there was nothing unusual, IMO that would peak a coaches interest. I agree, just waiting for something to happen usually doesn't happen. You do not have to be an outstanding player to play college ball, but you have to have something that will encourage a coach to think aobut why he NEEDS you in his program.

Pitching videos should be from a live game and in a live game warm up.

Also there is nothing listed under academics, GPA or test scores for a senior, clearinghouse registration very important stuff missing. Is it missing for a reason?
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
CD I am very consistent. There are lots of 85mph guys in D1 BB. I just didn't elaborate.
The website I posted shows guys with sub 8r mph FBs going to colleges. That is one reason I posted it. My comments were more about poor marketing. If the guy had amazing stats especially FB 90+ he would get lots of interest. His hitting was okay etc most guys hit for more power based on his info. We had 4 guy who hit 10+ HRS in their final year before college.
As I said stats aren't evrything but you can't rely on poor marketing if you don't have numbers that peak a coaches interest. I also based my opinion on the fact that he has been seen and not chased by those that have seen him.

Fair enough. Based on your previous post, it appeared you were poo-pooing the kid's chances at the next level. You might want to elaborate next time - thanks. In this case, even though there may be mid-80's guys at the D1 level, that is probably not the best level in which to start imho. He might wind up there but at least find some level from which to build.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
BHD --- Stats? My son hit only 3 HRs his senior year of high school yet he was drafted in the 5th round ---- and signed in the SEC ---- as a power hitter batting third in the lineup as a freshman --- and finished 2nd in HRs hit. Marketing? Good or poor marketing will always remain undefined too. Most would say my son was a product of poor marketing and poor stats because he never attended a PG event and only hit 3hrs. Sounds like a future Wal-Mart greeter to me.
B Blprkfrnks100+ posts
I am definitely not an expert on this stuff, but I am interested in that I have a son to market as well. I went to the link you provided and tried to look at him from a coaches view. Here is what grabbed my attention:

1. The grades being omitted seems like a big mistake. By the grades (mostly the SAT score) provided, as a coach I wouldn't risk him unless he was a very big talent or the school had very low standards.

2. The video of defense looked fine.

3. The video of pitching might hurt him. His velocity is already borderline, but then he throws all his pitches in the upper half of the strikezone and often misses his target by a foot or more. He should be able to find footage of a more accurate stretch of pitching.

4. His hitting ability looks fine, but again the video doesn't do him justice. The pitchers seem to be throwing all junk, and the righty looks to be about 15 years old. I think some footage against some harder throwers would make this video a better sell.

I'm not a scout, so I'm not trying to rate this kid, but I think the video doesn't do him justice, and the grades might be a problem at many schools.
PU Pop Up Hitter dad1,000+ posts
Originally posted by Fungo

________________________________________________

BHD --- Stats? My son hit only 3 HRs his senior year of high school yet he was drafted in the 5th round ---- and signed in the SEC ---- as a power hitter batting third in the lineup as a freshman --- and finished 2nd in HRs hit.

_________________________________________________

Maybe there's hope for my boy after all.
G GoodPitching10+ posts
I tend to agree with Blprkfrnks. I looked at the video as well & came to much the same conclusion. I believe the SAT score is just under the minimum for academic money as well. I would suggest a DII or DIII Juco as his best bet. Try contacting Niagara Community College. They are a DIII Juco just over the border with quite a few Canadians on their roster and he would get a chance to develope.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
Every player is a concoction of ingredients. It's like baking a cake without a published recipe and trying to determine what it's going to taste like before the timer "dings". Coaches are like "taste testers" ---- all have different opinions.
I want to share a story about a frail skinny kid that used to come to my house for batting practice. Not a contender was what everyone said -- but I knew better because I knew Drew. Drew had nothing going for him ---- except Drew.

Still ridiculously hot, Drew Sutton homered, tripled and walked Thursday for Scottsdale of the Arizona Fall League.
Sutton is batting .563/.636/1.125 through 32 at-bats. His K/BB ratio stands at 4/10, and he's even gone 3-for-3 as a basestealer. Sutton improving his OPS from 738 to 931 in his second year in Double-A could have been written off as a bit of a fluke, but if he can keep his average around .500 in Arizona, perhaps he should be taken seriously. The Astros could think about having him compete for the starting job at third base next spring.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by Fungo:
Not a contender was what everyone said -- but I knew better because I knew Drew. Drew had nothing going for him ---- except Drew

Fungo - that is a great line! I remember you writing about Drew on another occasion so here is that post which adds some more to your current story about Drew:
quote:
Drew Sutton was my son's teammate in high school. He always played in the shadow of my son with little attention given him. But his desire was obvious and in my opinion close to being an obsession. He lived here in our town with his divorced mother while his father lived in Texas. I suggested he come to our house and I would help him with his hitting. It was a daily event to see him coming down the driveway and he would "pound" baseball until I was exhausted and only after I "mentioned" I had other things to do. He went JUCO out of HS and then on to Baylor and then was drafted in the 15th round by the Astros. Today his desire is still evident as he breaks records and sets on the doorsteps of MLB. Watch for Drew Sutton next year to make the move.

An article from last week's paper:
The former North Side High School and Baylor University star is a member of the Corpus Christi Hooks of the Texas League and was named the Houston Astros Double-A 2008 most valuable player.

Corpus Christi is the Astros' Double-A affiliate.

"It was a great year for me personally," Sutton said. "I wish it would have been a better year for the team."

Sutton had the fourth highest batting average in the Texas League hitting .317 for the Hooks, with 20 home runs and driving in 69 runs.

Sutton finished with an on-base percentage of .408, second in the league and was named to the Texas League's Midseason and Postseason All-Star teams.

But Sutton does not a lot of time to savor his award.

He has been assigned to the Arizona Fall League and plays for the Scottsdale Scorpions.

Sutton is one of three position players and four pitchers from Corpus Christi assigned to Scottsdale.

"The Scorpions are a combination of five teams," Sutton said. "The Astros, (Pittsburgh) Pirates, (San Francisco) Giants, (Boston) Red Sox and the (Los Angeles) Angels."

Sutton played the majority of the 2008 season at second base, but saw action in 15 games at third and shortstop.

"Here, I'll play each position," Sutton said. "Of course, absolutely, this year was a big step in the right direction."

Which adds to his chances of making an even bigger step in his career.

"Putting the numbers up that I did, it is possible to be close, to get a chance to go to a big league camp next (spring) and compete," Sutton said.

But what about a move to Triple-A before the majors?

"There is talk about Triple A, but (Astros) told me that the possibility existed of making the bigs if I played in Triple-A or not," Sutton said. "They did not see it as a necessity for me going to Triple-A."

Sutton, 25, said it was September 2007 the last time he has been in Jackson spending most of his offseason in Nashville working and training.

"I'm glad to be out here," Sutton said. "The first of September (2007), I had to get a real job while living in Nashville teaching lessons, so I'm not complaining.

"I'm playing with and against great players."
Baseballdad1228Baseballdad1228500+ posts
It's very hard to judge a player by numbers on a recruiting website. Since the interest in him has been limited, I agree that he should find a school that will provide him a good education first and then can meet his short and long term baseball goals. His SAT scores and GPA indicate that he works hard in the classroom but has difficulty with the standardized test. He might even want to take the SAT again.

I hope he finds the right place.

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