Major Changes Coming To College Baseball Regarding Academics

With the ways things are now players just don't have the time in the spring to take the classes they do in the fall and if they want more classes than give baseball more schlorships football and basketball players are on full schlorship why not baseball

schlorships
scholarships

haha that won't be the last thing I spell wrong on here

WPirate,

Just having a little fun.

I bet you can go back over a few of my posts
and find plenty of errors.

quote:

Originally posted by WPirate02:
With the ways things are now players just don't have the time in the spring to take the classes they do in the fall and if they want more classes than give baseball more schlorships football and basketball players are on full schlorship why not baseball

It's called revenue.........and college baseball doesn't bring it into universities.

College baseball is a revenue loser for eveyone involved - the schools, the players, and the parents. For whatever reason the NCAA has not been able to promote the sport at the college level to the extent for the majority of colleges to be able to make money off this sport. This is in spite of the fact that the interest generated over the past 10 years by ESPN televising the Collge World Series has helped to at least let the general public know that baseball IS played at the collgiate level.

Not only do the schools not make any money with the sport the majority of parents actually have to pay at least some portion of their kids' tuition even though they are a "scholarship" athlete on a D-1 baseball team. That scenario is completely foreign to parents of football or basketball players. In some respects D-1 college baseball is like a very expensive "select" team.

I wonder what it will take to make baseball a positive cash flow sport for most universities.

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I wonder what it will take to make baseball a positive cash flow sport for most universities.

Corporate sponsors who believe the sport is attractive to the fan would be a start.

College baseball could gain some fan base if they recieve regular scheduled TV time. But putting it on TV for 1 week out of the year will only wet the whistle for a bit.

Also, most of your long lasting successful programs are not considered big time universities.........

i.e. Cal State Fullerton, Wichita State, Rice

Not saying these programs don't deserve respect, but they just don't have the alumn to produce a huge following which in turn will produce revenue.

If Ohio State, Texas, Michigan, USC, North Carolina, Miami, Florida, and Penn State were in the CWS each year for the next 10 years, you might have a chance of College baseball becoming a big time attraction.

Until then, your on the money about it just being one expensive select team.

KG

I am not sure you can equate the football powers with the baseball powers---different species each

Get corporate entities involved and it spells trouble , at least in my mind---they will tend to control what happens --

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
KG

I am not sure you can equate the football powers with the baseball powers---different species each

I think you missed the point. If you have these schools, which have a huge fan base due to large enrollment and alumns............there is the ability to create revenue. If we agree that college baseball is not a major player because it's inability to create revenue, I don't think you can excuse my point.

Why do you think there are very few of the Gonzaga's or Boise States of the world in NCAA Football or Basketball? Because most of the revenue generated are by schools with a huge fan and alumn base.

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Get corporate entities involved and it spells trouble , at least in my mind---they will tend to control what happens --

Well that may be true, but why don't you think there is a playoff system in place for College football?

Because it would take away too much $$$ from NCAA and your big time sports wouldn't be so big time.

I've always have said: (given the perfect baseball world) Give the baseball program 25 to 30+ scholarships and college baseball will grow like a wildfire.

Think of all the borderline pro players (top level college player) that go on to the minors, because the college offer just isn't enough to get a kid to go to school. I think that if a kid isn't a top 3rd or4th round draft choice (or just isn't college material) they'd go to college for a full scholarship.

Therefore, improved players should equal more interest by more, for college ball. The competition level should rise and it would be more fun to watch. I feel, that even in the current situation, a little more TV and it would take off. I think people are getting tired of the pro athletes attitudes and actions. I fear that a downswing of baseball is eminent if the market doesn’t expand some.

quote:

Originally posted by obrady:
I've always have said: (given the perfect baseball world) Give the baseball program 25 to 30+ scholarships and college baseball will grow like a wildfire.

Think of all the borderline pro players (top level college player) that go on to the minors, because the college offer just isn't enough to get a kid to go to school. I think that if a kid isn't a top 3rd or4th round draft choice (or just isn't college material) they'd go to college for a full scholarship.

Therefore, improved players should equal more interest by more, for college ball. The competition level should rise and it would be more fun to watch. I feel, that even in the current situation, a little more TV and it would take off. I think people are getting tired of the pro athletes attitudes and actions. I fear that a downswing of baseball is eminent if the market doesn’t expand some.

I agree with most of your points, except for a few.

You mention if the top players in the country went to college vs. professional baseball there would be more intrest.

I disagree because the general college fan base does not have knowledge of the "blue chip" players coming out of high school. They simply pull for their alma mater and hope for bragging rights.

Also, regarding pro athletes and their public perception. Looking at the revenue MLB is creating does not suggest the majority of fans are disgusted.

Luxery boxes and corporate sponsors is the prominent provider for major sports.

For that matter, this may be evident in NCAA sports as well. Don't know of too many NCAA baseball facilities that allow this execpt for maybe Arkansas. And maybe that's why Arkansas draws so well.

My problem with college baseball is that the games have become unwatchable. Four hour games are not that uncommon (at least in the Pac-10), and as much as I love baseball I hate watching coaches micromanage a game to the point of exhaustion.

O'Brady, I'll disagree with you there.

If you expand baseball scholarships to 25, you will see certain "baseball powers" suck up a lot more of the talent pool; you will see many currently competitive schools fall back in the pack; and you will see some schools stop playing baseball entirely.

The reason there's a cap on baseball scholarships is to keep this from happening. The cap is a response to the reality that most schools could not fund that many scholarships and thus, the playing field would not be anywhere near as level as it is right now.

It has only been in recent years that some of the schools around here have stepped up their funding to improve facilities, pay coaches more, and fund the full 11.7. And a lot of D-1's around here still don't meet those goals.

Yeah, more players would get full rides, and I have to admit I wish we could look forward to one of those (we can't). But last year, when VMI went down to Auburn and took 2 of 3 ... would that still happen in a universe of 25 scholarships? I doubt it.

One good thing about giving out fractional scholarships, too: If a coach is telling you how much he loves you, you can measure whether he means it or not by whether he's putting his money where his mouth is. In football, players are promised the moon, and then they wind up spending 4 years on the bench or on special teams, when they could've played for somebody else if they'd only known where they really stood. In baseball, you have to know going in there's a difference between the guy getting 70% and the guy getting 20%. And if one school is offering you 30% while another is offering 50%, that's an objective indication of what they really think about you.

interesting article, thanks for posting as not all of us can afford paying for BA's subscription content.

oops - now I feel bad for cheating, but with my short term memory I'll soon forget both the content and the bad feeling & all will be right again

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and as much as I love baseball I hate watching coaches micromanage a game to the point of exhaustion.

Amen. Let the kids play.

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:
My problem with college baseball is that the games have become unwatchable. Four hour games are not that uncommon (at least in the Pac-10), and as much as I love baseball I hate watching coaches micromanage a game to the point of exhaustion.

Agree completely. That has been one of my gripes with MLB for years now.


I can understand someone saying that the mega schools dominating baseball might increase baseball revenue. Yet the fact that almost small schools manage to make it to Omaha is one of the things I love about college baseball. Wouldn't want to trade that away. However, I don't believe increasing the 'ships to 20-25 would necessarily change that.

I have always thought one reason why college baseball is not as popular is because it conflicts with the potential fan base time.

Little league, Junior High, and High School players and their families can not get to the games because their practices or games are at the same time.
The high school players and families may be able to make one of the weekend games, but younger players will have games or tournaments on the weekends.

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:
My problem with college baseball is that the games have become unwatchable. Four hour games are not that uncommon (at least in the Pac-10), and as much as I love baseball I hate watching coaches micromanage a game to the point of exhaustion.

Agree completely. That has been one of my gripes with MLB for years now.


I can understand someone saying that the mega schools dominating baseball might increase baseball revenue. Yet the fact that almost small schools manage to make it to Omaha is one of the things I love about college baseball. Wouldn't want to trade that away. However, I don't believe increasing the 'ships to 20-25 would necessarily change that.

Coaches don't coach pitchers to work fast. In fact, most are calling the game from the bench, which further slows the game. You have pitchers slowing to a snails pace whrn someone gets on, which is often with an average ERA over 6.5 runs a agame in D1.

If they don't increase the number of scholly's, the players will be whiter (if that is even possible) and smarter, going forward.

I think the metal bats have contributed to the game length. It is so much harder to get outs. Also I think the hitting is ahead of the pitching in college.

The bat is a large factor, in game length. Pitching staffs are not deep with 7 or 8 getting 80% of the innings.

Wood bats would improve the game at that level.

Total ageement here, the wood bat would definetly help the college game. Not just in a physical aspect, but how the game is viewed by fans and the media. The metal bat lends zero credibilty to the college game.

Maybe this will get coaches to look a little more at the SAT scores and a little less if the kid is taller than 6'2"

Deemax

PING!!!...That is so true...PING!!!

My kid plays in college. Not sure what it is, but it ain't really and truely baseball.

KD,

Lots of good mid major coaches recruit good "bad body athletes" as they call them. As the talent pool shrinks going forward you will see more of these bad body-good GPA players creep up the food chain into the top 20 programs and impact games. I guess the days of good body/bad GPA-credit hours players is coming to a quick end.

It might be a boost to talent levels at juco's and NAIA.

I wouldn't think it would be so bad to up the ship's to 17 as a team carrying about 25 guys on avg would still make them pay a lot on their own yet make it more eniticing to the guys that are good at 2 sports like football and baseball but better at baseball.
I have not seen anyone point out the good players NOT taking an offer to play baseball at say 30% vs a good school offering 1/2 to a whole to play football. This does happen and for the parents who might be able to afford paying to go to a small school vs paying less at a larger and perhaps better college will sway the decision process towards football.
I feel the sport could grow if they at least add a few more on because they might help that decision become a little easier as well as attract the talent balance needed to keep things close to where they are now for all size schools.

quote:

I guess the days of good body/bad GPA-credit hours players is coming to a quick end.

Dad, are you worried that when the AD, football and basketball coach realize the baseball graduation rate precludes BCS and March Madness millions from financing their salaries...and a few scholarships, the baseball coach and program might be in "jeopardy???"

Sadly, IFD, that is a real possibility.

Texan, I have some mixed feelings about this.
To the extent the article is correct in suggesting some of the current schools who fall below acceptable currently may not be able to correct things by 2010, that seems wrong.
Also, it seems the matriculation/graduation rates really are comparable in baseball, the way they use the stats creates the issue. That isn't realistic. But seems like it will not be changed. The NCAA and the presidents are using the huge $$$$ of football/basketball to hold baseball hostage.
On the other hand, I watched players at the DIII level who didn't get one ounce of tutoring/study hall/special support. In the time our son played, nearly every player graduated in 4 years with a few in 4.5 and maybe one in 5 years. Our son played 47-48 games most years in DIII, played summer league and took 18 units 3 of his last 4 semesters at a very demanding University and graduated on time...with most of his classmates.
I realize we see mostly the world where we..or our sons live. If yours is DI, you are not likely to accept this can be done, without special help and especially in 4 years. When you live DIII, you wonder why all the help is available and why there are "reasons" offered that players still cannot matriculate. Someplace in between is likely the best of both for the player and school.
Unfortunately, the NCAA has its sledgehammer headed toward baseball and it may take out much of the good with whatever it is they see as "bad."

My apologies to Baseball America and the author of the article. I didn't pay attention to the fact that the article was in the subscription part of the site.

To any of you who don't have a Baseball America online subscription........I would highly recommend it to anyone who loves baseball. I have renewed my membership 2 times.

I'll pay closer attention the next time I decide to start a topic on this site from BA!!

quote:

Originally posted by obrady:
I think the metal bats have contributed to the game length. It is so much harder to get outs. Also I think the hitting is ahead of the pitching in college.

The main problem with "length of games" is that about 80% of the coaches give a sign or two on every single pitch on offense and defense. 0-2 count and two out and the hitter steps out of the box and watches the 3rd base coach go through a set of signs......yuk.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

quote:

I guess the days of good body/bad GPA-credit hours players is coming to a quick end.

Dad, are you worried that when the AD, football and basketball coach realize the baseball graduation rate precludes BCS and March Madness millions from financing their salaries...and a few scholarships, the baseball coach and program might be in "jeopardy???"

I am very much less worried than the BCS AD's, prez's and coaches. It's a comin' though. The APR is another whack at the base of NCAA college baseball, though. It will dilute talent, slightly as the 10% scholly reduction did, and disperse it to juco, NAIA and MiLB. Not a good thing overall for NCAA baseball, but perhaps good for student athletes.

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posted by bbscout: 0-2 count and two out and the hitter steps out of the box and watches the 3rd base coach go through a set of signs......yuk.

So lucky we only watch that every half inning at Cajun Games. Catcher calls the game. Pitchers have to work fast.

The problem that college baseball has with the APR (academic progress rate) is that most baseball players don't go to summer school.
As it stands right now, baseball players are earning fewer credit hours per year than any other college athletes. Even though baseball players are posting higher GPA's than the football and basketball players, a large portion of baseball's lost APR points are due to a lack of credit hours and not poor grades.
One of the main reasons is that many football and basketball players take summer school and most baseball players don't, as they are playing in summer leagues throughout the country and don't end up with as many credit hours as they should get.
The baseball coaches will need to figure out how to fix this problem, because I doubt very much if the NCAA is going to give them a hand.

In my youngest son's class of baseball players at his college, he was the only one who graduated in 4 years. That needs to be changed.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Catcher calls the game. Pitchers have to work fast.

Players calling it - as it should be.

quote:

posted by bbscout: The baseball coaches will need to figure out how to fix this problem, because I doubt very much if the NCAA is going to give them a hand.

I don't think shortening the season by a week or two forcing weeks with up to 5 games is going to help. Based on what I've seen, programs have the apperatus to help kids in class with study halls, academic advisors, 'puterlabs and such. I'm not sure how many are pro-active and monitor class attendance, course progress and such on a weekly basis like Jr.'s program. If that is the rule rather than the exception and there isn't much "slack" in th system to tighten up kids in class, then the deck gets re-shuffled, becuase kids will still want to play in the summer, because they know for most, their career is going to be over sooner than later.

Hmmmm...thought they were STUDENT athletes!!!

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but redshirting in football greatly benefits those players as they basically have that scholarship for 5 years and have a longer amount of time to get classes in and graduate. That might help baseball programs, but the $$$ is not there to do it.

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Hmmmm...thought they were STUDENT athletes!!!

Close, its more like student ATHLETES...unless your thier on academic scholarship.

What if each coach made it mandatory for every player to take 15 credits in the fall, 12 in the spring, and 6 in the summer(online classes, while playing summer ball)? That would be 99 credit hours after three years, making it only 30 credit hours(approx.) away to graduate in four years (assuming no summer ball as a senior). Its a little out of left field, but I cant think of very many college athletes who dont have internet access, and online classes are usually very flexible as to when you take them, often times at your own pace. There is so much dead time playing in summer leagues, I would find it hard to imagine a student couldnt find time to sit at a computer for a couple of hours a day....its just thought.

These are good points, but with all the money coming into the university from the alumni go to the basketball and football programs. They are the college sport for some reason, we just hve to take the back seat for now and roll with it. Look at Virginia Tech and Wiscoinsin for example, they dont even have a baseball team. Both football powerhouses and good at basketball. It does help to that most of these schools games are televised every game like yall said. We just don't get the support, no way else to explain it.

Uh, correction there pal... VA Tech does field a baseball team (has for 112 years.) They are in their second year of ACC membership.

How does the song go, "Short people got no reason!"