making it known you want offers or are listening

My understanding is that there is too much pressure placed on kids to commit VERY early these days and that is not an opinion it is a FACT.

You are giving advice that I don't think is for most, realistic. Are you suggesting that players have the upper hand in recruiting? I always thought that it was the other way around. Keep in mind that it is just a verbal offer. Lots can happen between now and later.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
My understanding is that there is too much pressure placed on kids to commit VERY early these days and that is not an opinion it is a FACT.

You are giving advice that I don't think is for most, realistic. Are you suggesting that players have the upper hand in recruiting? I always thought that it was the other way around. Keep in mind that it is just a verbal offer. Lots can happen between now and later.

I think this is COMPLETELY true. TPM, you hit it right on the nose (yet again). There are 2013 players in my area who have already committed to major Division 1 universities (Texas, among others). What happens if these kids regress over the next two years? "Sorry kid, I thought you were going to play for Texas, but we can't use you, even though we recruited you 2 years ago"

TPM what advice did i give? i think i asked a question based on conversations that were taking place. I think i used question marks.

Based on miami football i think athletes wag the dog not vice versa

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
This discussion came up this week as we have players 2014 and 2013 who have already made/accepted verbal offers with colleges. so the question came up do you get word to colleges that you are ready to listen to offers or do you sit back and wait for them to decide its time. i heard one coach say that "if we knew he was listening we would have offered" i guess they never thought kids that young would committ..any thoughts?

Sorry your topic threw me off, long day, you did not give that advice.
Are you basing your questions on football or baseball?
Either sport, too much pressure on kids, I hear football is REALLY tough but it also is a whole different process.

I players I coached in showcase baseball that verballed early did so because they got offers from the school they had always dreamed of playing at. They were not pressured to verbal. They didnt pressure anyone to get an offer. If you have grown of your whole life of playing at Texas and your a soph in hs and Texas offers you what do you do? Tell them to hold off on the offer you might suk in a couple of years?

The fact is many college coaches complain about the early verbals. The fact is a player can not accept something they are not offered from a college coach. If college coaches have a problem with this and many do. Then they only need to police themselves and dont try and put the blame on the players.

If a player is offered that early by a school like Texas So Car etc then they are not a run of the mill baseball player. They have already shown that they are an exceptional player. They have the ability right now and the potential to be even better in a couple of years. Yes the school and pull the offer in 2 years. Yes the player can pull the verbal. But there can not be a verbal without an offer.

So if college coaches dont like it then stop doing it. The fact is many of these college coaches are trying to beat the competition to the punch. They want lock up the young stud before someone else can get into the race for them. I hear the same coaches complain about early verbals and then watch them early offer. What do they say? "We have no choice because everyone is doing it and if we dont we will get beat out of these players."

So coaches go to the NCAA and get some rules put in place. But even your rules are not going to stop under the table hand shake agreements from taking place. So as long as there are coaches ready and willing to offer these young players there will be young players ready and willing to accept them.

whits I just realized after reading your post that I didnt even come close to helping you with your question. Now this is just from my experience. The college coaches talk to the players hs coach, summer showcase coach, players in their program that know the player etc etc. They get the word to the player they are interested and want the player to call. If they want to make an early offer they let the player know.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
So if college coaches dont like it then stop doing it. The fact is many of these college coaches are trying to beat the competition to the punch. They want lock up the young stud before someone else can get into the race for them. I hear the same coaches complain about early verbals and then watch them early offer. What do they say? "We have no choice because everyone is doing it and if we dont we will get beat out of these players."

That's pressuring players, isn't it?

Maybe I misunderstood the question. Is the question do college coaches put pressure on players?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Maybe I misunderstood the question. Is the question do college coaches put pressure on players?

I don't know CM, the post was confusing to me. The title was making it known you want offers or are listening. Don't ALL players want offers, aren't ALL players listening. Was he talking about the elite player or every player, baseball or football.

I just always thought that the coach was in the driver's seat, and they knew what they were doing, it kind of sounded like the kids were in control of the situation.

If I have misunderstood, my bad.

No problem. I typically stay confused.

You better think about whether you're sure you want to commit early. Would you have been happy with an early commit to TCU now that you'll be in the Big East? Would you be happy with an early commit to Nebraska now that you're in the Big 10? Would you be happy with an early commit to Kansas only to find out the Big 12 folds and you have no conference? Things to consider now that you didn't have to worry about not so long ago.

I think you make good points CM, most that do commit early are either studs or they have lived their whole lives rooting for that team.

its always possible i dont type or convey what i mean..i hate typing not as much as i hate texting though.

Anyway i guess my general question was whether a player should let colleges know he is interested in them and would listen to an offer or if you just wait on them to offer something. I guess there are subtle ways if you want. Go to camp, email coach or fill out recruit form. I am really surprised that some of the lesser colleges dont just throw offers out to the top players trying to get a verbal before the big schools get to them. But then i guess the kid could and would opt out if a better offer came. I know for a fact schools try to save face when taking back an offer by saying admissions screwed it up or sat wasnt high enough. Anyone remember maryland giving the jewish jordan a veral when in 10th grade then pulling it the next year. I was however talking about baseball in my original post. My own son is still younger grade and birth wise than most kids he plays with so we just sit and live vicariously thru the older kids :* but maybe in due time we will have these problems. OH one other quick item. IF a school offers a scholarship to a out of state kid does the school care as much as if it was an in state kid? in theory out of state is usually more cost involved. Also is it against rules to waive out of state fee's to make scholarship more attractive

Some studs committ early too so people will leave them alone and they know they are going to get drafted high anyway. i wish there was a site you could see all the verbals from kids at diff ages. I know univ sc has gotten verbals from a couple 2014 already

That's ok I often have the same issues and I hate texting too.

I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you are unfamiliar with the recruiting process.

Coaches don't turn down the studs who might likely sign to play pro ball out of HS too, it's good for business. No one really knows if they will get drafted or not, a lot of that for many players depends on their strong college commitments. There have been many highly ranked players that are not even drafted.

SC does offer early to many of their in state players, as does Clemson. As I said, you will find that happens when you have 2 or more schools competing for the same in state players.

Really good coaches don't normally withdraw offers, one reason is because they really work hard at recruiting the right players for their program. Sometimes stuff happens though.

The reason I did say what I did was because players don't recruit coaches, coaches recruit players. It is the coach that makes those decisions. You can attend as many camps as you want, call or email the coach as many times as you want, he gets the message you are interested, but that doesn't mean he is interested in you for his program. There are certain criteria that players have to meet which would but not limited to grades, test scores, ability, coachability, and what the coach does or doesn't have to give up for scholarship.

Lessor programs do offer opportuniites to top prospects, but most know they are low on the totem pole, those top prospects do have an edge over most others in the recruiting process of going to their top choices that others can't get a look from.

As far as your other questions, schools can waive out of state tuition (but each school is different and has their own set of rules), and coaches usually make an offer based upon what admissions allows, each player can come have different set of circumstances. In son's case, they didn't waive out of state but they did give larger bb dollars to make up for that fact.

As far as what I said abut pressure, in speaking to a parent of a top 2011 FL prospect, I understand that there was tremendous pressure placed upon the player early in the process. Knowing the coach that finally got the player (as a junior) to commit, probably placed the least amount of pressure on the player. When you have a big program that contends on a national level each year, your program and coaches reputations speak for themselves. Because a player may be courted from 4-5 or more top programs (especially all from the same state), there is lots of pressure placed upon the player and family.

whits23 - The more I think about your questions, the more I think about our sons' processes and the more interesting answers I come up with.

As TPM said, coaches recruit players...first and foremost. There is no match unless the coach first decides he wants the player.

However, I do believe that players can say some things that help the process along if the coach does in fact have interest. For any given program, there are a lot of players out there for a coach to sift through. Telling a coach honestly (and I do mean honestly...no games!) that his school is THE one or in the top-5 of your son's list can, I believe, help to edge things along...so long as there is already some amount of mutual interest.

Our older son ended up in a position of being able to select from a lot of schools. Very early in the process, he told his 'dream school' that it was, in fact his 'dream school' and he'd pick it if he got the chance. Midway through the process, I remember the head coach calling me (his dad) at home one night...to talk to me. He wanted to convey to me that my son was at (or near) the top of their list. We talked for 20 minutes or so...finally I said, 'Coach, I believe (son) told you that you were his #1 choice a while ago.'

Coach responded, 'I know he did, I just wanna make sure we stay in that position.' The offer and commitment came shortly thereafter.

With our younger son (about to enter his freshman year at a D1), I told one of the coaches there early in his junior year that if they wanted him, they would certainly be in his top 2 or 3. A few months later, they offered. Did my comment matter? I think so, but have less evidence in that case.

They listen. It does matter. I just think you need to communicate honestly...that is, don't say something you don't mean...and for goodness sake, DON'T make a 'commitment' unless you mean it. But I think if you communicate honestly it may help nudge things along somewhere down the line. My view of how you 'say it' would be something like, 'Coach, if you become interested in me you will be my top (or one of my top) choices.'

Good luck!

I was familiar and stil am to a point with recruiting. I was in high school wiyh one of the most sought after athletes ever but times have changed since then kids are smarter and understand everything there is to about ..well everything

I also know now days coaches and re ruiting coordinators are all in dog eat dog world and are out to climb the ladder and land recriuts. Not faulting them its the nature of the job. Kidsnon the other hand all want to say the got a scholarship,when they should just want to play ball. I have always said if a parent ever gets half the money back they spent on travel ball in the form of a scholarship they would be blessed. Lots of good input and discussion on a boring night..thanks guys

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
I was familiar and stil am to a point with recruiting. I was in high school wiyh one of the most sought after athletes ever but times have changed since then kids are smarter and understand everything there is to about ..well everything

I also know now days coaches and re ruiting coordinators are all in dog eat dog world and are out to climb the ladder and land recriuts. Not faulting them its the nature of the job. Kidsnon the other hand all want to say the got a scholarship,when they should just want to play ball. I have always said if a parent ever gets half the money back they spent on travel ball in the form of a scholarship they would be blessed. Lots of good input and discussion on a boring night..thanks guys

There are a lot of people who will tell you they were careful where they spent their money and got a great return on their investment, but one shouldn't look at it this way. You do what you can afford to do and because you want to.

IMO, nothing really counts until HS.

It should be about the scholarhsip, but it doesn't have to be about just baseball scholarships. College is expensive, if baseball, football, so cc er, basketball can help pay why not?

not to mention you may try to get some academic money although now with schools doing, weightlifting, speed training, team sports as the main curriculum its not likely

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
not to mention you may try to get some academic money although now with schools doing, weightlifting, speed training, team sports as the main curriculum its not likely

huh?

quote:

Anyway i guess my general question was whether a player should let colleges know he is interested in them and would listen to an offer or if you just wait on them to offer something.

If this discussion is about underclassmen, there are rules that dictate what college coaches can do.

In most cases it is the player that the college is not interested in that would need to tell the college he would listen to offers. If the college sees a player they want, they're going to make an offer.

It is fine to tell a college recruiter you have a genuine interest in his school, especially if he knows who you are. Just remember if the school is a Stanford, LSU, Florida, South Carolina, etc... They get thousands of kids that are interested.

If they have seen you play and they like what they see, you won't have to do much. You can tell them you would listen to an offer, but the truth is most all players are willing to listen to an offer.

Recruiters work very hard, it's extremely competitive. They do not sit around waiting for players to contact them. For the most part they know what they want and the more they want a player, the more aggressive they are at getting him.

If higher level scholarship schools are the goal, the best approach is to get in front of them and perform. The better you perform the less you will need to do in guiding the recruiting process. If they want you, you will know it, and they will find out about your interest. On the other hand, contacting coaches at non scholarship schools could be more effective.

I think sometimes it confuses people when they contact a coach/recruiter and the coach responds. Some folks call this "interest". Usually that response is simply a thank you for your interest in our program and it will include a questionnaire and camp information. Nothing at all wrong with this, but can't tell you how many times we have been told that a certain college is showing serious interest in a player based on the above. Only to find out the real interest doesn't exist. Must be some kind of confidence booster or bragging issue. Guess next to actually receiving offers, next best thing is certain colleges are showing interest.

Truth is... "Real" interest is what results in "real" offers. Real interest is created on the field. There are more quality players than there are quality college baseball programs. There is no shortage of talented players. College coaches/recruiters will "see" more than a hundred players they would love to have in their program. They know they can't have them all. They don't expect their next recruit to be someone they don't know about who has contacted them saying they will listen to an offer. On the other hand, who knows, anything is possible.

very good points PG..the better you play the less you need to talk. not sure there are more players than schools (of course you did say quality meaning top D1) i think now days almost any kid who is good enough to play showcase (good showcase not the weak hey were renting a college field type) i mean the underclass or jupiter or even wwba..those kids can land on d2-3, naia or juco as there are a ton of programs. thanks for your input

quote:

not sure there are more players than schools (of course you did say quality meaning top D1)

Actually what I meant was there are many more potential DI players than there are DI roster spots. And there are lots of DI capable players who choose to attend a DII, Juco, or other smaller colleges.

It doesn't matter "where" the decision makers see a player. Anywhere they see a player is good enough for that player who has the necessary talent.

Sometimes just hearing about a player will create enough interest to go see the player. It's just that hearing about the player from the player himself or his family doesn't have the same impact as hearing it from a trusted and unbiased source.

South Carolina got a verbal commit from a 2014 who hasn't even played varsity. Saw the kid play two weeks before the commitment, and thought he was pretty good, but was shocked as the rest of them. Unfortunately, it puts a lot of pressure (or maybe I should say it bruises a lot of upper class egos) on High School teammates that are waiting to hear. We had a kid commit ACC between soph and junior year. A teammate then went to 4 ACC schools and asked the coach point blank for a scholarship. He didn't get any offers. His junior year was terrible, probably because he was trying too hard. He did get an offer, at a good DI too, after he accepted the reality and adjusted his sights.

College coaches know what they want, they know what they are looking for, they know what the team needs. We parents/players have NO clue. Very humbling, this game of recruiting.

south carolina has verbals from 2 if not 3 2014 kids now. I know one has played on his varsity team not sure of others. They may get hurt but they dont get slower so speed is key to some. What will really shock kids is when the school recruits 3 kids who all play same position or they get 2 kids the year behind them who play their spot. Time to get used to the real world when they have to go to work

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
What will really shock kids is when the school recruits 3 kids who all play same position or they get 2 kids the year behind them who play their spot. Time to get used to the real world when they have to go to work

I see that your son is a 2014 so I would imagine you are just learning about college recruiting? Many of us have been through the recruiting process, some even 2 or 3 times, but thanks for the info.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Many of us have been through the recruiting process, some even 2 or 3 times, but thanks for the info.

Is that necessary?

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Many of us have been through the recruiting process, some even 2 or 3 times, but thanks for the info.

Is that necessary?

Huh?

quote:

Is that necessary?

Sometimes...yes.

2013 Son recieved 3 e-mail on Sept 1. He replied to all 3 thanking them and letting them know he would like to have "unofficial" visit.I would think this is enough to let them know that he would be interested in listening to offers. Am I wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by lodi14:
2013 Son recieved 3 e-mail on Sept 1. He replied to all 3 thanking them and letting them know he would like to have "unofficial" visit.I would think this is enough to let them know that he would be interested in listening to offers. Am I wrong?

I think that if a player responds in the manner in which your son has they know you have an interest. Just keep in mind that this is the getting to know you period for both.

PG's post was excellent. In all likelihood the coach is going to control the situation, not the player.

I agree, not many in this game has seen recruiting from the prospective that PG Staff has