Mamas don't let your pitchers grow up to go to the Stanford Camp

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Bottom line advice that I have to offer...if you think your son is somewhere close to being in the ballgame (i.e. possibly admittable), then let the coaches drive the process. Don't eliminate yourself based on a speech you heard or a story someone told you or an 'expert' posting online. The coaches know if they have a shot or not...if they're proceeding and you want to attend that school, run with it!

quote:

Originally posted by CADad: I really don't think Coach Stotz was telling the kids not to attempt getting into Stanford. I think he was saying that it was probably going to be a lot more work for a kid with the "lower" scores to keep up if they did get in and they better factor that into their decision making process.

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O44 ...

quote:

Because that meant that students had "academic upside".

This might be the first time we have ever heard of student/athletes being recruited based on their 'academic projectability' and not just their athletic projectability.

I would be very dismayed if I heard a college coach not mention anything first in his camp speech about meeting academic criteria. That's what they need to stress, it's college and you have to be able to perform in the classroom to stay eligible to play.

Some schools prefer higher SAT/ACT scores because that represents how the classroom material is presented to their students. Others don't even consider those test results anymore. Other schools take into consideration your class academic rank based upon geographical location.

JBB is correct, coaches take into consideration all of the athlete's attributes when determining who gets a scholarship and who doesn't.

My son didn't make academic criteria to many of the schools that were recruiting him (though he was a very good student) including the one he attended (low SAT score for their regular admissions). Never a "you don't meet our academic criteria" discussion came up. That's why coaches ask for your transcript in advance.

As always on thing to keep in mind, good performance on the field (you do not have to be a top prospect) and good performance in the classroom (you don't have to be 4.0 student) opens more doors than if you only had one of the above.

It's nice to hear about a camp that actually is good for position players. Our son was a LHP on the tournament, camp, and showcase circuit, and always got a chance to be seen. Position players, other than catchers seemed like they were a dime a dozen, and unless they did something totally outstanding or came in with a great reputation were like the 7 dwarves surrounding the pitchers. I always thought it was nice for our son to hang out with good players striving for a similar goal, play a high-caliber of baseball, and be seen by coaches and scouts - even if he only pitched a few innings at a showcase or camp.

Scouts and college coaches come in not with an open mind, but with preconceived ideas based on prior information about who or what they want, so it is much harder for the position players to stand out. The Stanford Camp is a little different because it emphasizes test scores, and has many more Ivy League coaches who don't often visit the West Coast - but this should have been well known to parents before they got there, not a surprise when some coach talked about SAT scores. I think parents sit around trying to read the tea leaves a little too much (what number did he get? Who is watching him? Where was he assigned to play? What was his listed height and weight?), instead of just sitting back and letting your son enjoy the experience. There are so many camps now that you have to do your research to pick the exposure carefully. Just remember, like justbaseball said, you don't have to pitch at the premier location (Sunken Diamond) to get signed if they like what they see, and fanofthegame stated - it only takes one coach that likes you...

It might be underestimated how much value this program has as part of the lifeblood of some college baseball teams. There are coaches there who work from 7am to midnight each day to get as much information on as many players as they possibly can because the Camp is known to have quality, and depth of quality. By working, maybe outworking others, these coaches know they can find players and pitchers who slip through, which happens.
The breadth of coaches attending the Stanford Camp extends far, far beyond Stanford, Ivy's and the like.
There are DIII coaches from around the nation.
There are NAIA coaches attending.
Many, many DI programs which have someone there even if not registered and some JC programs have a presence.
I talked with a coach recently who told me his program has had about 10-12 players matriculate into professional baseball(including independent leagues) in the last few years and all but 2 came from the Stanford camp, and none were the guys everyone in the Camp talked about.

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While we are on Stanford Camp....

Question: Is Stanford camp still offering/suggesting/requiring a written test measuring and stratifying levels of emotional and mental tools for competition?

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Infield Dad;

For 17 years, when I operated the Area Code games and tryouts, the Stanford Camp was the only event that I schedule the AC tryouts not to conflict.

At the beginning of each year, I called Dean for the summer dates of the camp.

My respect for the Stanford camp is unlimited.

This year, Dean Stotz allowed me to speak on International Baseball and "body" language
of players and parents.

My speech was 10 minutes, it could have been 10 hours. Thank you Dean.

Twenty-five years of International Baseball and 7,000 players provides great research on this subject.


Bob Williams

Bob,

Your post kind of says it all.

Our son leaves the Stanford program with the utmost respect for the coaches, its tradition and its culture. The camp was the beginning...the CWS the ending.

What a fantastic ride!

My son pitched out at College of San Mateo in 2007. Hardly anyone there....but after his game, the CSM head coach, who'd been quietly surveying the events from somewhere nearby, came over and said he'd like the boy to come and pitch for him. It was the first face-to-face my son had ever had, and it gave him loads of confidence going into the HeadFirst event a couple days later where his soon-to-be coach saw him and started the recruiting process (along with a half-dozen other schools that were there). So there's always a thread of energy and synchronicity running through all of these seemingly disparate parts.

You just never know how it will ultimately unfold.

I looked at their on-line brochure for the 2008 All-Star camp and here is a link to it:

http://gostanford.cstv.com/camps/2008-baseball-camp.html

Nowhere in the materials do they suggest that the camp is for exposure. It sounds like, for $750.00, you get room and board, instruction, games, and a coach's evaluation. That said, some kids seem to have gotten more for their money (exposure-wise) than others. Perhaps expectations were for something that was never promised in the the first place?

CD ...

With all due respect, the brochure may not state anything about exposure but I can attest to our being told ... in person ... by Coach Stotz that if our son attended their camp the following summer, there would be lots of coaches from different colleges observing the camp participants. That was in summer of 1999 when we stopped by the campus during a vacation and took a chance that a coach was around. Coach Stotz graciously met with our son and us to discuss Stanford as a possibility, during which conversation our son was definitely given the impression that he would be seen by a lot of coaches if he were to come to the camp. Again, it wasn't written in the brochure AJ eventually received, but it was definitely included in our conversation that summer.

For reasons which aren't necessary to explain, our son did not participate in the camp the following year, but things worked out for him and his college experience was just about as close a fit as a player could ask to find. God is good.

Both of the above posts bring good points.

Obviously people know that you can get exposure from attending the camp.

Nothing mentioned in print about exposure protects the program from the parent complaining his player didn't get exposure. Smart move on their part.

FBM - with all due respect, it is unclear about what point you are trying to make.

Are you suggesting that Stanford is marketing their camp disingenuously? i.e., promising some kids lots of exposure and relying on legalese in their brochure for other less-worthy kids?

When you say that your son was told lots of coaches would be watching consider what CaDad said in his original post:

quote:

In my son's case, there were a dozen college coaches watching when he pitched at his last PG showcase while there were only 4 plus the coach who came specifically to watch him and Dave Nakama who I don't think was there to look at pitchers at College of San Mateo.

If I read that correctly, that is six coaches who watched his son pitch. Does that meet the requirements of "lots" of coaches watching his son pitch as was told to your son?

CaDad's original post complained of an inequity. Some kids pay the same amount of money yet get more exposure (e.g., 6 coaches watching versus 35). Is that right? or Is everything above board here? Those seem to be the issues raised and I merely pointed to the brochure to see if any misrepresentations were made.

Again I say to you all---this is a camp--camps are for instruction and education not exposure--if you get an exposure that is a plus---you go to a showcase for exposure

CD,
Whoa big fella. There's an inequity, no doubt about it. Some pitchers get more exposure than others. But there isn't much that can be done about it.

But nobody is claiming they were misled. Anyone with common sense should know that everyone isn't going to get the same exposure. Stanford isn't lying to anyone, they aren't misleading anyone and there's no reason for anyone to accuse them of doing so. One of the first things they tell everyone at the camp is that not every pitcher will pitch at Sunken Diamond. Such is life.

Let me say what I tried to say in fewer words and forget the title I used for this thread because I was just trying find something catchy.

Stanford is a good camp. If you are a position player you will get exposure before 35 to 40 college coaches while playing as well as additional exposure while doing hitting drills and fielding drills. You'll also get a couple games in front of fewer coaches that will feed into your evaluation.

If you are a pitcher there's about a 1 in 3 chance you'll pitch at Sunken Diamond. If you pitch at Sunken Diamond you'll get the same type of exposure the position players get. If you don't pitch at Sunken Diamond you'll be seen by about 4 to 6 college coaches and 2 of them will be there specifically to evaluate you as a pitcher. Everyone will get a written evaluation from their team coach and the coaches will talk among themselves if they see something good about a pitcher.

Given that, it is a great camp for a position player. If you are a pitcher and are looking for wide exposure you may or may not get it. If you pitch well and have D1 quality stuff you will absolutely be noticed wherever you happen to pitch. If you are a D3 level guy and pitch well they will probably notice and word will get around.

The purpose of the post was to let people know in advance what they are and aren't getting from the camp. I lack common sense at times so I assumed he'd get to pitch in front of a lot of coaches, on the order of 20 or 30 or more. This post is a bit of a warning for others like me who lack common sense at times. My son got less exposure than I would have liked. He got more exposure than most pitchers and he got to play in the field also. As I said earlier we got our money's worth even if it wasn't quite what we were expecting.

CADad - I have a friend whose son is a pitcher too and he also pitched at CSM during the camp. He, like you, was a little bummed about that.

I just don't think there's as much to read into it as you might have worried. But maybe I'm wrong?

I was standing/chatting with 3 coaches (from 3 different schools) at Sunken Diamond one of the nights last week (after a nice dinner with infielddad in downtown Palo Alto ) and they all had full rosters in front of them. None seemed interested in the pitchers at the time (and this was at Sunken)...they were all locked in on one of the SS's who they didn't know at all...but he was making some nice plays and definitely getting their attention.

I do think the title of your thread was catchy...but it might have caught my eye in a way un-intended by you? I appreciate your follow-up comments. I hope to send my next (pitcher) son to the camp in a year or two. I think its a great experience and venue.

CD ...


You wrote:

quote:

Nowhere in the materials do they suggest that the camp is for exposure. ... Perhaps expectations were for something that was never promised in the the first place?

I responded by saying that when our son visited with one of the coaches, he was told that there were lots of coaches (don't know what quantity was meant by 'lots') who would be there watching the camp participants. Whether that was in the brochure AJ ultimately received or not, I can't remember. But it was my impression that there would be exposure to other college coaches by participating in the camp.

Then you ask

quote:

Are you suggesting that Stanford is marketing their camp disingenuously? i.e., promising some kids lots of exposure and relying on legalese in their brochure for other less-worthy kids?

No where am I intimating or suggesting that Stanford personnel are promising exposure to 'some' kids while protecting themselves from complaints from 'less worthy kids'. That would sound almost like collusion to showcase the players/pitchers that the Stanford coaches thought were 'better' while tucking the other players away at a distant field. Besides, if they wanted to showcase players, wouldn't they showcase the ones they did not deem 'worthy' and 'hide' the ones they wanted to recruit?

All I am saying is that based on our experience, AJ was told that there would be lots of coaches there. I cannot pretend to understand what Coach Stotz's intention was when he made the statement, but it apparently was something that he felt would motivate AJ to come to the camp.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:

The camp was the beginning...the CWS the ending.

What a fantastic ride!

Sorry to be off topic however that statement stopped me in my tracks.

What an incredible ride it must have been!

There is no doubt there are a ton of coaches there. They introduced them to the boys. Dartmouth, Cornell, Harvard, Penn state,Stanford Univ. Hawaii, Kansas, on and on they were there.most of them coached teams so they got a good look at the boys on their own teams,so they were gone with their teams. I have nothing to say negative about the camp, like I said before take the evals and use them to work on your boys game.But remember it is of course a fund raiser for Stanford and it does allow them to invite a ton of kids who are all hoping to be looked at.Are all the boys invited Stanford material NO.But there are other coaches there.
Regardless of what any of us parents think or want to believe College baseball is a business. it is the coaches jobs to win and get the best players they can on the field.Lots of boys are recruited to very good schools from the Stanford camp. Lots are not. How many other showcases have we sent our kids to that they were not recruited from?Its being in the right place at the right time, my sons D1 looks and offer came from a HS game,free of charge. Coach saw him hit a couple 400 feet bombs came back a couple more times and talked to his hs coach , letter in the mail and so forth.my son at that time of the Stanford camp was not a TOP D1 prospect . If anything if I were to do it all over, I would have our son at a couple PG showcases to get rated, get him on a scout team (most are free) tons of scouts watch those games and get him invited to area code (AGAIN FREE).Maybe a couple college camps for the exp. And we would of saved enough money for a years tuition at a university, because in the end hes at a JC.BUT he knows its a good fit, he knows he has things to work on, and before he might of thought he could play at one of those prestigious schools. SO some of this stuff are eye openers for the boys, just experiences. Like one parent said earlier on this post or another, dont try and over analyze it all. If your going to the stanford camp or any ohter, go get the most out of it, learn from it and do something with it. Your player could get recruited from the camp and he could get recruied from a local tourney that someones at that knows someone .Lots of word of mouth with baseball. believe that or not. off to Reno for a 4th of July tourney. Legion ball, hey maybe there will be some scouts there. tourney free for us, hotel costs, get to eat out and gamble a little,watch my son play some ball and have fun.have a great 4th of JULY.

My son went to the camp this year as a position player. I agree that the camp was a great experience, but you repeatedly say that this camp was great for position players. I disagree.

My son was not an outfielder, but I felt for the kids that were. The outfielders maybe got 2-3 flyballs per game at the most, and likely caught them. However, there was no way for them to make a difference defensively. At Headfirst, 20 or 30 coaches sit and watch the kids catch flyballs, and throw to first base.

The same is said for infielders. They maybe get 5-6 groundballs per game, and could possibly field them all. However, it's still hard to tell the difference between two third basemen on 3 groundballs or so. Again at Headfirst, each player took about 5 groundballs (backhand, forehand, slow rollers) in front of a number of coaches.

I understand that it is a camp, and therefore not based on exposure. However, I disagree with those that say this camp was great exposure for position players.

Though it is called a "camp", everyone - players, coaches, parents - utilize it as a showcase. The instruction is minimal. People are there to see and be seen. I wonder if there's some kind of NCAA restriction on Stanford using the term 'showcase'? For all intents and purposes, the Stanford All-Star Camp is a showcase where evaluation is the key. IMHO.

My son was one of the fortunate who got to pitch at the Sunken Diamond. There were a lot scouts there, and he threw 5.2 innings of shutout ball with 10 K's. I was very happy with the Stanford camp. Then I went to some of the other fields and saw the flip side of the coin: Games played in front of no scouts (or very few). But frankly the pitchers I saw were tier-B and not as good as the ones I saw at the Sunken Diamond. It was obvious the "good" pitchers were steered to the Sunken Diamond, but since it is a "camp" what can you say?

Which is why I think a PG showcase offers more. The two PG showcases Bum, Jr. went to he was given an equal chance as the "top" players in his exposure/evaluation.

Be careful with the Stanford camp. It is a good one, but it is NOT for most. How many guys will get a National Letter of Intent from Stanford? Very few! If you think your son is a top player ask yourself.. is he good enough for Stanford? Because if the answer is "no" be careful. Many of the other schools there were Ivy League (academic) schools which are not really reknown for baseball. In essence, the Stanford camp is a good deal if your son is a TOP PLAYER with a great chance to be seen at the Sunken Diamond WHO ALSO WANTS TO GO TO AN ACADEMIC SCHOOL. Does that make sense?

Otherwise, choose PG.

My son went to the camp 3-years ago. I have made a point to go back each year to watch a couple of games. This year I went to Sunken Diamond twice and watched a game at CSM.

A big part of why I go is to talk with some of the parents that are watching. Every year it is the same, parents with either no idea how the recruiting world works or have dilusions of granduer.

I remember having too much time one day a year ago and I googled the kids that were on my son's "Stnford Team." Half went on to play at various programs, some were better than my son, some maybe not. I suspect that most did not have an opportunity. It was not that there wasn't an opportunity, it is likely that they did not open their hearts and minds to find an opportunity.

With approximatly 320 kids at the camp, it is not reasonable to think that the 25 schools that are represented on the coaching staff can take more than a couple of kids each. Assuming that each of the 25 recruits 3 kids that leaves nearly 145 that aren't getting recruited. It is about expectations; if you sent your son to the camp to be recruited, you have to be disappointed, but who's fault is that?

To this day, my son thought that the Stanford camp was one of his best high school baseball experiences. Last year we were watching the college world series when we say a kid pitching for ASU that my son faced at the camp. While he only faced him once, he knew that he could compete and was proud for having the opportunity to play with kids that have gone on to have "big time" college experiences.

As to not being seen at other fields, that just isn't true. My son played at Paly the second day and both Coach Marquess and Nakama (along with several other coaches) were there to watch. Also, he had the chance to talk with an Ivy school because they came to one of the other fields to watch a game. You never know who is really there.

For a California kid, there are great opportunities out of the Stanford camp if you are willing to be open to new parts of the country and show your interest in schools which are not that are not one of the ESPN top 25.

I think that this has turned out to be a very good topic and lesson for the realities of recruiting.
I am gathering from discussion that a primary reason for attending (though not stated in the brochure) the Stanford "camp" is for exposure and to be seen at Sunken Diamond by Stanford and other schools, many of those schools that are tough academic schools like the IL schools. Other lesser reasons may be for evaluation or for instruction. I am thinking that this is viewed by more as a showcase rather than a camp. Seems to be some blame on Stanford for not treating all camp participants equally by not getting a chance to play at Sunken Diamond or that some players may have had better opportunities than others (position players vs. pitchers) at this camp. Was it the fault of the camp or do we blame it on those that had different perceptions. Come on now, you all out there must talk amoung yourselves about the camp. I have even seen the inquiries posted here each year about what to expect.

I also find ILVBB comments interesting about finding parents there who have no clue about recruiting or dilusions of granduer. So do people send their players there for the hopes of a Stanford scholarship, or Yale, or Harvard when in reality these schhols present most likely are schools that would not recruit them to begin with? Is this a prestigous thing where you get to tell others, "my son attended the Stanford All Star Camp" or do most people genuinely just go for their kids to have the experience and take it all in at face value for what it is? How many people who attended actually received a scholarship from a school they were seen by?
I found it even more interesting that JBB's son did not pitch at Sunken Diamond, yet somehow found his way onto the Stanford roster, and obviously this doesn't happen often (getting a Standford scholarship). Has anyone figured that one out yet? I know as a parent, watching Stanford play on national TV, I would have to be realistic in thinking that this may or most likely may not be a place where my son can compete. That might factor highly in my decision as to whether to attend or not. Reality is that it is not for most.
I remember someone posting about PG's event in Jupiter, they felt that playing at the backfields put their son at a disadvantage because there was less exposure. Reality is, if their son was a high 80's or 90+ guy or monster hitter, every scout and coach would be at the backfields. Word spreads quickly.
We encountered the same years ago during the USA tournie. A parent was complaining to the coach that their son didn't get an opportunity to compete in front of more because we were on the backfield. My son pitched on the same backfield but was chosen for tryouts. Was it the location or the player that brought the results.
I think that this was good information to be presented, not sure about the title but that has been explained. But if I was considering sending my son this would be a good reality check whether this was worth the expense and effort, no matter where I lived.

I am wondering, for $750 for a few days, is this a necessary thing to do unless your player fits the profile as a Stanford player? Or can you spend your money elsewhere and get more for your dollars spent? After all, that's the key to recruiting, finding ways to get exposure where it won't break the bank, unless you have a bottomless bank account. If it were me, I certainly would make inquiries for that amount to see if it was worth it for my player to attend.

ILVBB,
How many coaches were at CSM when you went there?

I think the delusions of grandeur comment is off the mark. My guess is that most parents want their kids in front of a lot of coaches because they realize that their kid doesn't particularly stand out and they are hoping that with that many coaches there, one will see something he likes.

Mine is a low to mid 80s type, with some pretty good arm action that hints at more velocity. He was mediocre on the mound at the Stanford camp with his velocity being down about 1 mph from what it had been 3 weeks previously and his pitch selection not being overly good from the standpoint of showcasing himself. In his words "...the fastball was working so I just kept throwing it." The evaluators who were there seemed to like the arm action and said they could see him at 86-88 very quickly. Will that show up in an evaluation in 5 or 6 weeks? I don't know. Would it have made a difference if he had that kind of outing at Sunken Diamond? I don't know. His velocity was only 82-83 on most of his pitches in his first inning when the coach who came to see him was gunning him. It was 84 consistently in his second inning of work, then down to 82 for a very short 3rd inning with only about 8 or 9 pitches and his last pitch after 4 innings was 86. Would that have shown up for everyone to see at Sunken Diamond? Yes. Would it have mattered? I don't know. Would I have liked him to pitch at Sunken Diamond just in case he had one of his better outings? Absolutely.

BTW, I saw several pitchers who didn't have much to offer at Sunken Diamond as well as some very good pitchers. The kids who threw for our team at Sunken Diamond were a kid who was mediocre but didn't throw very hard and a kid who seemed to have connections, given that pitcher was his secondary position, who got hit pretty hard and maxed out at 80. He pulled himself and a couple other kids who were secondary pitchers got to throw. We had another kid who happened to be struggling with his breaking ball pitch at San Mateo who was working 84-86 and was clearly a better prospect than either kid who pitched at Sunken Diamond from our team.

How do you know how many coaches? How many parents were there? Grandparents?

I ask this because not all coaches present themselves with name tags. A very important "coach" that I happened to know was present when my son pitched at Palo Alto HS. The only thing was I bet 99% of the parents just thought he was another grandparent sitting in the stands down the 3rd base line.

And he was evaluating pitching!

justbaseball,
CSM is a 30 minute drive. The rest are close by. I heard from people that they did see a few coaches head over to Palo Alto HS. I didn't hear of any coaches going over to CSM other than for my son's game and he described it as "...quite a trek."

There just weren't many people at all at CSM.

quote:

How do you know how many coaches?

I think with pitchers it is easy - you count radar guns

Seriously, I think TPM raises good points. IMHO, if all kids are paying 750.00 with an expectation for exposure as Krak states, then they all ought to be given access to similar amounts of exposure. If that is a problem, then maybe discounts should be given to those who only pitched at the other fields. I am sure most people would rather have the exposure however rather than a discount. I realize no camp can provide exactly the same opportunity for each kid but they ought to attempt to equalize things rather than saying ho hum.

Cannot see why they couldn't allow each kid to pitch at least one simulated inning at the main field. I am sure they could find hitters willing to stand in there against them. Without any fielders during simulated runs, they ought to be able to move kids in and out fairly rapidly and still allow all the scouts attend to their wine & cheese in downtown Palo Alto.

Lets give them all trophies too! Just like s-o-c-c-e-r. (Yes, that was sarcastic).

I think TPM and ILVBB had some good posts. Otherwise I think this is getting a little silly, don't you?

This is a camp that has D3, D2 and D1 coaches attending. Nearly all are high-end academic schools. Schools that compete seriously with Stanford for recruits, i.e. other top-25 programs or highly competitive D1s on the West Coast...won't be there.

* If your grades and test scores aren't pretty high, don't attend.

* If your dream is to play for Stanford and Stanford only but you pitch in the low 80s, don't attend.

* If "I'll take any top-25 program" is your mantra and you expect exposure to ones other than Stanford, don't attend.

* If $750 breaks your bank account (and yes, its tough on mine), don't attend (Stanford will find you anyways, but Trinity might not).

* If its a requirement for you that Coach Marquess be in attendance when your son pitches or plays SS, he might be, but no guarantees so don't attend.

* If you want any guarantees, don't attend (this or any other camp or event).

* And...if you think this thread presents too much risk for you/your son with regards to exposure, cost, instruction or any other factor...DON'T ATTEND!

Enough.

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We did the Stanford Camp with older...decided not to with younger...and have talked to scores of others who have, and I'd have to agree with Krak...

quote:

Originally posted by Krakatoa:
Though it is called a "camp", everyone - players, coaches, parents - utilize it as a showcase.

It's simple...

Any problems stem from the expectation of a showcase with everyone getting equal time in front of scores of recruiters and coaches in a single venue....

...and the fact that it often runs more like a camp...with instruction off site and sometimes far off site.

I go expecting a showcase and I get a camp and I am disillusioned. Simple solution for parenst:research and understand what Stanford camp is and what it is not. And for a solution for Stanford, (If you want/need one - and I doubt given the popularity that Stanford really sees any issue) ...come down more clearly on one side or another.

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Bum,
Were there the same negative comments about PG from the Stanford coach when you went there?

Stanford camp - two good things:
1) you are able to see the level of players from around the country
2) you can see how your child performs out of his element

two bad things:
1) the off-site coverage is spotty.
2) pitchers throw 3-5 and are done (as with any camp/showcase)

Looking back, it was way more effective to go straight to the colleges he was interested in attending, meet their coaches, and attend their camps.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Lets give them all trophies too! Just like s-o-c-c-e-r. (Yes, that was sarcastic).

I think TPM and ILVBB had some good posts. Otherwise I think this is getting a little silly, don't you?

This is a camp that has D3, D2 and D1 coaches attending. Nearly all are high-end academic schools. Schools that compete seriously with Stanford for recruits, i.e. other top-25 programs or highly competitive D1s on the West Coast...won't be there.

* If your grades and test scores aren't pretty high, don't attend.

* If your dream is to play for Stanford and Stanford only but you pitch in the low 80s, don't attend.

* If "I'll take any top-25 program" is your mantra and you expect exposure to ones other than Stanford, don't attend.

* If $750 breaks your bank account (and yes, its tough on mine), don't attend (Stanford will find you anyways, but Trinity might not).

* If its a requirement for you that Coach Marquess be in attendance when your son pitches or plays SS, he might be, but no guarantees so don't attend.

* If you want any guarantees, don't attend (this or any other camp or event).

* And...if you think this thread presents too much risk for you/your son with regards to exposure, cost, or any other factor...DON'T ATTEND!

Enough.

Good post. I learned alot.
Obviously lots of other divisions attended Stanford camp, I didn't realize that. But you brought up good points, best being determine if this is a good event for your player in the recruiting process. If so attend, take it for what it's worth, or don't.

I think we also need to realize that this camp is not what it used to be. Several years ago, Stanford selected who came and knew exactly where the players they wanted to watch would be.

This was essentially a showcase. Now, the NCAA has deemed this a recruiting violation, and therefore it must be open to everyone. This obviously brings down the level of talent (not to say that there aren't still top players), so I don't think it has the same prestige as it used to.

quote:

BY CADad
Bum,
Were there the same negative comments about PG from the Stanford coach when you went there?

CADad,

Ears perking up on that one!

I would be shocked if a Stanford coach would ever say anything negative about us, for several reasons.

1 - They follow our stuff very closely and have been doing that for many years.

2 - We think of Dean Stotz as a friend.

3 - 3/4 of their roster has attended PG events.

4 - We have always promoted the Stanford Camp to anyone who would ask us.

5 - They work with us rather than against us.

6 - They have too much class to do that.

However, if there were an example of this really happening, I'd love to hear about it and which Stanford coach might have been involved.

Note: The NCAA has way too many rules and regulations.

This is an interesting thread. I do agree that both parents and coaches use the camp as a showcase at least as much as a camp.

I can only speak for our motivation and expectations for the camp. My son had been in communication with five programs that were in attendance, and the purpose was to get a chance for them all to see him play.

I know for a fact that each of these programs watched him play at least one of his games, and in some cases more. So from my point of view, the camp delivered on my expectations entirely.

If our purpose was to just play in front of a lot of coaches who we had no prior communication with, I doubt I would feel the same way.

As it happened, I know that each of those five programs got a good look at my son, and another D1 program that wasn't even listed as attending watched him play two games, and called on July 1.

My advice to parents would be to attend the camp if the schools who will be there are the types of schools their son is targetting, and then use the camp as a very efficient way to play in front of those schools who they have already established communication with, who know he will be there, and who want to see him play.

For us, the camp delivered on precisely what we wanted from it.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Lets give them all trophies too! Just like s-o-c-c-e-r. (Yes, that was sarcastic).

I think TPM and ILVBB had some good posts. Otherwise I think this is getting a little silly, don't you?

This is a camp that has D3, D2 and D1 coaches attending. Nearly all are high-end academic schools. Schools that compete seriously with Stanford for recruits, i.e. other top-25 programs or highly competitive D1s on the West Coast...won't be there.

* If your grades and test scores aren't pretty high, don't attend.

* If your dream is to play for Stanford and Stanford only but you pitch in the low 80s, don't attend.

* If "I'll take any top-25 program" is your mantra and you expect exposure to ones other than Stanford, don't attend.

* If $750 breaks your bank account (and yes, its tough on mine), don't attend (Stanford will find you anyways, but Trinity might not).

* If its a requirement for you that Coach Marquess be in attendance when your son pitches or plays SS, he might be, but no guarantees so don't attend.

* If you want any guarantees, don't attend (this or any other camp or event).

* And...if you think this thread presents too much risk for you/your son with regards to exposure, cost, instruction or any other factor...DON'T ATTEND!

Enough.

So Caveat Emptor justbb?

How about some more latin - quid pro quo - this for that. 750 for what? Wink/wink to some kids and the others refer to justbb's post on the hsbbweb for why you should not have been so naive to have attended in the first place? This is not about giving out trophies to everyone. If they are going to accept the 750.00 checks, then deliver equal (or approximately equal) service. What is so controversial about that? Going back to my orignal post in this thread, perhaps all they are promising is room & board, instruction, games, and a coach's evaluation for 750.00. If that is the case, then complaints and expectations about exposure are unfounded imho. Again, why not just spell this out in the brochure i.e., not all kids will be evaluated by the full boat-load of scouts - that privilege is reserved for prospects we have previously identified as prospects and through our numerous scouting contacts. Not sure how you would phrase something like that but then, wouldn't a statement like that perhaps hurt the overall business end of things?

I think there is a lot of craziness on this thread. My own observations from being a coach and teacher for 30 years...

All showcases and camps make money for someone. That is their sole purpose. Exposure and evaluations and instruction and other stuff are nice to offer, but basically it is an offer to come and give someone some of your money. They will gladly take it. So be careful what your expectations are.

Let's take the Stanford camp for example...
1. I would pay $750 to roll around on the infield at Sunken Diamond. I would pay for my son to go and do the same...have fun and enjoy yourself. No expectations. One of my players attended the camp last week and I sidled up to him the day before he left to give my standard speech about what these camps are really all about. He laughed and told me he was going for fun and some of his buddies were going too. HE WANTED TO ROLL AROUND THE INFIELD. How can I argue with that?

2. If you are really good, you don't need the camp. If you are borderline and hoping that your low 80's fastball (which really means high 70's) will light the gun up and set you up for life...think again. Baseball is too hard for that. If you are "high 70's guy" just keep plodding along and grow and keep trying and you just may end up being a mid 80's guy. It will just take you longer to get there. Baseball is making sure you are worthy. When you get good enough through all your hard work...you will laugh at the way you acted when you were younger...and you will realize that your dad just might have embarrassed you a bit. But only because he loves you.

3. Coach counting and which field you play on and some kids perceived special treatment and things not being fair and PG being better and throwing your best in the inning when no one watched and having to drive to CSM is making you guys look desperate. Come on dads...you are better than that. The coaches love to work the Stanford camp because they might find an academic guy for their east coast college, they pay you on the last day of the camp, so you get your money fast, and the Oasis and the Old Pro are great places to hang out. When you think they are watching your "mid 80's fastball kid", the coach is deciding on whether he wants wings or a burger when they are done and if ESPN has a good game on while he eats. Come on guys...you all have jobs...don't you know how to look busy at work and day dream about your tee time or Erin Andrews? Sure you do. So do coaches.

4. If you are good, the coaches will find you. Might be a legion game in the sticks, a high school game, 2nd or 3rd hand information, or a playoff game. It is their job. They are good at their jobs. All these showcases just make their jobs a bit easier...but not really because if you throw 90 and strike out guys in some game in Jupiter Florida...you will get a chance to pitch beyond high school, but if you are not tough enough to handle the pressure...you will not last long. These coaches jobs are on the line...30 wins and you get fired...35 and you make a regional and blink twice and you are Mike Batesole with a national title. They will not waist time on you if your skills do not match you heart. The guy with the heart that will come through for you when it counts just may have been pitching at CSM in front of no coaches and three years later there he is inducing a bunch or ground outs and beating your ***. Baseball Gods just made him...and the overzealous dad sweat it out a bit before rewarding them...IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EASY.

5. Go to the showcases for fun and to measure yourself. Don't count swings or ground balls hit at your guy. Get a soda and enjoy the weather. Baseball will reward you in due time based on your effort and desire and skills (which may be late in developing) The Gods of baseball do not like showcases. The Gods do not like shortcuts. Back off the whole recruiting stress load. God's will reward you. I promise.

6. Just suppose your dreams come true "super dads." Your son is good and he gets recruited...receives a partial scholarship. Shows up at Wherever U. Do you realize he is there to help the coach win games...so the coach can recruit a kid better than your kid so he can win more games and make a regional and get a raise or an extension? It is a cruel business. Lighten up. Smell the roses. Be glad your kid loves baseball. It will work out via its own momentum...no giant investment needed. Just passion and hard work and patience. Does not matter what decade it is. Go watch the documentary about Augie. Take a step back.

7. Sorry for this rant. Just blowing off steam. Have a cracked pipe under my kitchen and the $5,600 price tag is making me cranky. Why couldn't it have happened a week ago when the CWS was still on?

8. By the way...the Stanford Camp used to be exclusive and quite the forward thinking venture and the screening process was quite extensive. Now they pretty much use a lottery to allow kids in. Some good ones do not get picked. Some not so good ones get in. But the checks still get handed out on the last day and the burgers still taste good.

9. I guess I have said enough. Probably will regret most of this. But $5,600...come on! Any plumbers out there?

quote:

Originally posted by baseball168:
I think we also need to realize that this camp is not what it used to be. Several years ago, Stanford selected who came and knew exactly where the players they wanted to watch would be.

This was essentially a showcase. Now, the NCAA has deemed this a recruiting violation, and therefore it must be open to everyone. This obviously brings down the level of talent (not to say that there aren't still top players), so I don't think it has the same prestige as it used to.

I have always had the highest regard for the Stanford All-Star "Camp". This is their information on their web site:

"The Stanford All Star Baseball Camp offeres a unique baseball learning opportunity to high school players interested in playing Divison I College Baseball. Each day, players will work on development of individual skills, learn the importance of team play and experience first-hand the Stanford success formula - hard work, self-discipline, goal-setting and commitment to excellence. Each day, each player will have defensive practice at his position, hitting or pitching stations and a competitive game. Players will receive an evaluation from the coaches following the Camp. Tuition listed above includes room and board."

This “Camp” is different than a showcase, what showcases provide instruction and room and board?

One of the unique aspects of the Stanford camp unlike other college camps is that many other college coaches are involved in the operations of the camp where others may only have their own coaches. It has the reputation of drawing good players to the camp, but not the necessary the best, but it does provide a avenue for Stanford and other colleges to attend and see a good group of players who they may not have access to due to budget restrains or just opportunity.

If you are going only for the exposure, though it does have a benefit of being seen (good or bad), you are much better off going to a quality showcase...

60'6",
I can't speak for anyone else but I did enjoy your rant.

Way too much seriousness about recruiting these days. My point is spend your money and don't look backwards, even if it is for your kid to have a good time.

And things do have a way of working out, just ask most of the parents who post here.