Managing The Dream

Lyrics from Ryan Shupe's song Dream Big:

And when you cry be sure to dry your eyes
Cause Better days are sure to come
When you smile be sure to smile wide
and don’t let them know they have won.
And when you walk, walk with pride
don’t show the hurt inside cause the pain will soon be gone.

And when you dream, dream big
As big as the ocean blue
Cause when you dream it might come true
And when you dream, dream big.

And when you laugh be sure to laugh out loud
cause it will carry all your cares away
And when you see, see the beauty all around and in yourself
and it will let you feel ok.
And when you pray, pray for strength to help you carry on
when the troubles come your way

And when you dream, dream big
As big as the ocean blue
Cause when you dream it might come true
And when you dream, dream big.

This is a very interesting question.

My son wants to play professionally, too. I remember when he was just a little guy, maybe 8 or 9, and he once asked me: "Dad, do you think I will be a major leaguer?"

I paused for a moment, as my mind raced down the exact path that you articulate.

What kind of dad would tell a 9 year old that he would never be a major leaguer? How would a 9 year old have the perspective to understand what the odds are? What is the correct balance between nurturing a dream and making so much ride on baseball that his entire identity is centered on it?

I settled on: "It's definitely possible." And we went on to discuss how much work it takes to get that good at something.

Over the years, now, we've had many such discussions. As he's matured I'm pretty sure he understands the odds, and how random events such as injury can derail anyone's career.

He still has the dream, and I do nothing to discourage it. But when we talk about it we also talk about how important it is to have skills in other areas where it is easier to make a good living.

And I also try to focus him on the present. Dreams are great, and goals are great. But goals are met one step at a time. So I focus him on whatever that next step is.

This year his goal was to make varsity. He's a freshman, and it is one of the best BB programs in the state, so it was a high goal, and he made it. Today he starts his second game at catcher.

My son is motivated most by someone telling him he can't do it. So in that respect, telling him how long the odds are to make the majors motivates him rather than dampening him.

But what I worry about most is that his entire identity becomes so centered on baseball that if someday he doesn't meet his MLB dream, he is personally and permamently crushed.

We actually talk about it. I think he understands.

In the meantime, both he and I are enjoying the game so much. I'm really thankful.

You'd be surprised how much they understand the reality of the situation and how difficult it is. My son says he would still love to get paid to play the game that he loves, but he also says he knows he has to get bigger and stronger, and play in college, and if he doesn't get drafted after that, well he has his college degree and moves on in life and maybe coaches someday.

My dream for him is not that he play in the majors but that he walk away from baseball (whenever that is) on his own terms.

quote:

My dream for him is not that he play in the majors but that he walk away from baseball (whenever that is) on his own terms.

Very good thoughts John! I couldn't agree more!

My son is a Senior and never talked about playing professional ball. He is a good ball player. A left handed power hitter who is also a righty catcher. A dream combination for any coach, or so we have been told. He did not play baseball until he was 10. At 12 his team won the little league National Championship, at 13 & 14 they went to state and made it to regional. In high School he went to one of the toughest programs that had recently won the National Championship and started for the JV as a Freshamn and made Varsity as a sophomore. Still he never said anything about playing pro. but when he was a sophomore he told me that he thought he could help us out paying for college if he got a scholarship for baseball.

He signed early his National Leter of Intent and recevied an amazing college scholarship. He did Area code and Pirates Invitational and over the last month or so we have had interest in him from MLB and his name has started showing up on those top players being looked at for the draft. Odd he did not tell us about it a friend mentioned he made the list.

We as parents are teribly excited about his future so we finally asked him what he thought about playing pro ball. His statement, "I'm worried about being prepared for the play-off game this weekend, I have prom on Saturday and I haven't ordered the flower and I have graduation in two weeks. Everything I have done since I was ten was to get me to the next level. Let's take it one step at a time and in the end I will reach my goal of making it to the show" Guess they do know the odds. Work hard, play hard and then go back to work hard some more

floridafan,

Not much of an expert on most things, but you just hit on an area I do know something about. Somewhere on here there is a story I wrote that is fairly long. Don’t have time to find it or write another long one, so here’s the short version.

Oldest son was real good… definite prospect, played pro ball.

Youngest son was terrible, worst player on his team. At age 13 younger son told me he was going to play in the Majors.

Of course, I (being a scout at the time) KNEW that youngest son would not play in the Majors

Tried not to ruin his dream by telling him, “That’s great Ben, but college should be your first goal”. Of course, I KNEW he probably wouldn’t play college ball either.

I KNEW he just wasn’t good enough.

Youngest son is decent in high school but no college offers.

Not surprising because I KNEW that might happen.

Long story short – When he was 22 years old, I was in Bank One Ball Park with 50,000 other people watching him pitch in the Big Leagues!

Man, am I glad I never told him everything that I KNEW! Now a big believer in big dreams and high goals!

quote:

Everything I have done since I was ten was to get me to the next level. Let's take it one step at a time and in the end I will reach my goal of making it to the show" Guess they do know the odds. Work hard, play hard and then go back to work hard some more

Smart kid. The trip to the top of the ladder is a rung at a time. If you keep watching the top of the ladder and climbing, who am I to tell you to come down off that thing. Dreams enpower people like Ben with the courage to dream.

Here is a link to a longer version of PG's shortened version above. The thread is related to this topic and there were also some other excellent posts in there as well along with PG's classic story

What Contributed?

I think my son's "dream" has been to play for a big time college program for as long as I can remember but he has mentioned pros here and there. I think I've always tried to be cautiously optimistic with him but he's pretty driven so I don't think my opinions will sway him one way or another.

I didn't know PG was posting since I type so slow but his story says it all. Let me say this is a complicated subject and I think Rob Kremer gives good advice when he says:

quote:

And I also try to focus him on the present. Dreams are great, and goals are great. But goals are met one step at a time. So I focus him on whatever that next step is.

Folks if your son has a goal or a dream of playing professionally, then you need to paint those words on tour refrigerator door!

The one thing that stands out in these great responses is the practical approaches most are taking. Since you are being practical let me put something in perspective. You have to determine if this is a DREAM or a GOAL! Big difference! First understand that a goal WITHOUT A PLAN is a dream. If you feel as if this is a real goal your son is setting for himself, then you as a parent, with all your life’s experiences, you need to help him devise a plan. Look into his future and pick out a few points of time that your son needs to be in order to achieve his goal. You can call these mini-goals or challenges. For sake of discussion lets say your son cannot expect to be a college player unless he is an above average high school player. He cannot expect to be an above average high school player unless he is a sold contributor as a sophomore. He cannot expect to be a solid contributor as a sophomore unless he stands out as a freshman on JV. In essence what you are doing is devising a plan that has some practical application TODAY! Now that your son has devised HIS plan (with your help) you need to support him and don’t force him! Your support is very important as he undertakes a VERY BIG challenge. You can be a big influence in helping him stay focused. Your son will lose interest at times --- accept that. He’s human just like all the rest of us.
We parents will make mistakes too as we “follow” them as they work toward their goal. First I think you have to admit you are wearing rose colored glasses. If you cannot admit that, then you cannot remove them and your will fail to see things as they actually are. Over the years I found myself in many very complicate situations with my son and his baseball. You will have every emotion tugging at you during this process. You’ll love baseball and you’ll hate baseball. You’ll be your son’s biggest supporter and his biggest critic. You’ll have all the confidence in the world in him and have that shattered with one swing of the bat. He’ll go from hero to zero in a split second. Through it all you have to look at the child, the boy, the man and understand this has nothing to do with baseball but just a basic parent/son relationship. I said this once before; if you measure your son by his success then you must understand you will also measure him by his failures. Be there for him and if he has the talent and the desire --- it will happen!
Fungo

CD - thanks for posting that! PG's story that he shares in that thread is one of my favorite posts of all time!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnLex7:


My dream for him is not that he play in the majors but that he walk away from baseball (whenever that is) on his own terms.

Exactly what I have been hoping for...

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What a great thread!...solid wisdom from every poster...

MnMom...assuming this thread continues at this level I nominate it for Golden Status..

44

All I have ever wanted for my kids is that whatever they decided to do they do it with a passion. To love what they do. If you love what you do then you will wake up in the morning ready and excited about the day at hand. When my youngest was 5 or 6 I played catch with him all the time because thats all he wanted to do. He would spend hours on end hitting rocks in the driveway with a broom stick. All he ever talked about was playing baseball and that has always been (HIS) passion. He dreams of playing at a college that he loves. He has told me several times that regardless of who recruits him he is going to ***. I leave it alone and just tell him to keep chasing his dream and have fun at what he does. You have to have dreams. You have to have goals. I am one that truly believes that anything is possible as long as you believe it is possible. If the day comes that he does not reach his dream I have no doubt that he will take the same approach at that he does when he k's in his first ab of a game. Get right back in there with the same confidence he had in the first ab and believe he is going to mash. Having dreams is what life is all about. Hell im still a kid with dreams. I refuse to let go of my dreams. Im going to make it to show one day. If not in this life I will in the next.

Everyone here can relate to this, so it's an outstanding thread——probably destined to be one of the "goldens."

Personally, I can remember watching my (then) little boy, both thrilled and astonished as the years went by and he just seemed to excel in every sports endeavor.

You know how it is: none of us is really objective when watching our own kid perform, so you're gaining an awareness that they're good but tempering that with keeping some sort of perspective and not letting your imagination about what could be run wild.

Over the years you begin to overhear strangers remarking on your kid's skill and you just still try to keep that perspective and humility ...

Next thing you know it's the college and pro recruitment scene and you now have to admit to yourself that it's true. The kid really does have something.

I've learned a lot from my son in this journey. He, focused on the next game, the prom, whatever was just ahead and didn't let his head run wild. Now that the reality of what actually may lie ahead is here, he's calmly taking that in stride, too.

Every kid is different and I know, of all our ours, this is the one that can handle the next step in baseball and all the choices that will have to be made to make it happen. So, tuning into his approach to life has helped me to gradually believe in the dream.

kt

Coach May,

quote:

Hell im still a kid with dreams. I refuse to let go of my dreams. Im going to make it to show one day. If not in this life I will in the next.

Coach May, Join me the EH in my Quest.
To be the oldest Rookie ever in MLB History.
If I make it to the Big's, I Know I could be Rookie of the Year.

Shep Believe's in Me, and I have a few other's who are pulling for me.
Gotwood's making Me a new speciel Wood Bat. No Cork.
And the Mom's are making a Uni that will Fit like a glove.


I really think and Believe That a player need's all the encouragement, and also the right Contact's that believe in Him.
If they receive that type of confidence coming from other people beside's there Parent's.
It will boost there Confidence, that maybe I can reach my Goal of making it to the next Level. the EH

I have always believed that it is more important to believe that you can great than to be great. I have seen so many players that have achieved great things in the game because they believed in themselves. Likewise I have seen even more players not achieve the level of success in the game they could have because they did not believe in themselves. I have always told players "How can you expect others to believe in you if you dont believe in yourself"? I for one love to hear a kid say "I want to play in the Majors one day". Or "Im going to go to College and play baseball". If you dont dream it you can not achieve it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with kids having dreams. In fact it is awesome to see a kid with a dream and then the desire to make it happen. It does not always mean that they will achieve it. Many times they will fall short of the initial dream. But they will open so many doors for themselves that might not have been available if they did not dream in the first place. Sometimes a kid has his sights set on being a D-1 player and dreams of playing for the bigtime program. Maybe they fall a little short of that goal but they end up at the D-3 program and have a great career and get a college degree along the way. Without the initial dream they might not have ever played past HS or earned that college degree. It in no way at all means that they did not achieve their dream. In fact they actually did. There is no doubt in my mind that the kids keep things in perspective and handle the situation much better than us parents do and coaches alike.

Great posts.

Yesterday son finished his last exam, which means his second year of college baseball will soon will come to an end.
On his bulletin board in his room here at home (which technically is only used by him 3 weeks out of the year) is a picture of a little boy 4-5 playing t-ball standing in the infield in ready position, next to that pitching on the mound in HS, next to that, pitching on the mound at Clemson. Hopefully in a few years, there will be other pictures, butwe don't have any control over that anymore.

A long journey that began almost 16 years ago, as he will be 21 this fall. After son reached the college level, I realized that the journey was JUST beginning, the other stuff along the way was preparation for things to come.
The funny part is that just about everything that he has ever wanted has come true for him, not because of us, but because of him. Although all of us as parents do at sometime wear the rose colored glasses, our son did not, none of them should. It gets in the way of goals. He just quietly went about taking care of business, playing well, getting good grades, improving upon what needed to be improved upon and has had the best time of his life doing it. We were there for him each and every step of the way, and will continue to be, but realize now that all that has transpired for his dream, his goals, have been accomplished by him. Our job was to bring him up to be a decent human being, and baseball played a big part in making him that way. For that I will always be grateful, that the game made him who he is, regardless of where he is going in the future.

Did he always believe in himself, no, did he ever think he was better than anyone else, maybe but he never said anything. Did he ever want to give it up, yes. I do beleive in sons case, humility taught him great lessons. Those that don't experience that phase will most likely never reach their goal. Somtimes his successes shocked him, just as his failures did. In fact, I think the failures have helped him to learn to be better and although it is agonizing at times, we are grateful for those many steps backwards to help him move forwards.

There is something special in all of our sons,that's why we are here. Just like many of you have heard the phrase "son is special", we did too, but we knew that he was the one that would make him special not us.

Have learned a lot over the past several years, the main thing is that our kids are smarter than us, we dream, they do to but they are the ones who need to take care of business, ONE day at a time. I know my son has told me that if he doesn't just focus on the moment, he loses sight of his goals. We rarely talk about what is ahead for him anymore, he can have those discussions with his coaches and advisor now, we are now just along for the ride, more as fans really, not much parental input on his game,but more on school. That's the way he prefers it and we respect that. We only give input when asked.

floridafan,
The reality of the numbers is bleak, and we think we should not let our sons know that (actually they really do we just think they don't). The reality hits them like a sledge hammer when they get beyond HS. The more expectations we have placed on them, the harder it becomes for them to fulfill them. Some of our kids get caught up in trying to please everyone, and they tend to forget about what's important for them. Funny part is after HS, not much is really in parents control anymore, except to be there to listen, to watch. So if we teach them to take control early, we step back and enjoy, they learn quickly what needs to get done to make their dream (not ours) come true.

So looking back in retrospect, try not to manage anything, because the ride along the way is not in your control, it's in his, your role is to give support in all phases of his life not just baseball.

I think PG's story about his sons is a perfect example of this and of how very little we really know where they are headed when they are younger, despite how talented they are. Obviously his son took his dream a bit farther, worked really hard to reach his goal.
Without clear goals, the dream is pretty hard to reach.

GREAT post TPM!

Your second paragraph says it all, yet some can do all that and still do not manage to make the dreamgoal a reality. Beenthere has posted the harshness of the draft...for all those going in...an equal amount are going out...no long good-byes or farewell parties.

Dreams and goals should all be rooted in an understanding that in life...anything can happen.

I can only say this; I am extremely grateful that my son has found his complete worth in who he is, how each treats others and the integrity he lives his life. He's having another nightmare season and the peace and character he has shown gives me great reason for joy. He has never given up on anything worthy and he still loves the game, and total faith that "this too shall soon pass."

My only expectation for him (growing up) was that he be a man of integrity and he is. As we say in the south..."the rest is gravy"

Catsuremom,
We live in the south?

What I was trying to say, I think you got, we can't manage what we can't control. Along the way, things happen, things change, you've got to just enjoy every moment, that day because if you lean on the dream too heavily, you might be very disappointed in the end.

We can manage the things that are important that make our children who they will turn out to be, how they handle themselves along the way, make them responsible adults.

We are essentially just there for the ride!

And you are right, whatever else happens is gravy!

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:

I do beleive in sons case, humility taught him great lessons. Those that don't experience that phase will most likely never reach their goal. Somtimes his successes shocked him, just as his failures did. In fact, I think the failures have helped him to learn to be better and although it is agonizing at times, we are grateful for those many steps backwards to help him move forwards.

Amen to that TPM.

A pivotal experience in our son's sporting life was sophmore year, his rookie year on varsity, when he had to throw in state semifinal game. Coach had just run out of pitchers and asked him to just go in there and do the job.

It was excruciating watching nationally ranked Chapparal demolish our guys in that game, and we could just feel son's anguish, but he went back out there, inning after inning, until the mercy rule ended it.

He walked away after the post game huddle alone, first guy on the bus, just wanting to have some privacy. The whole crowd could sense his sense of defeat and responsibility.

Now, two years later, I've been reviewing his MLB profiles before mailing them off. Whenever he has to tell what has been his most important moment in sports so far, he just says, "state semifinals sophmore year." That says it all.

kt

From a "carolina girl" to a "jersey girl" S. Florida just ain't the "south"!

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TPM....

quote:

Our job was to bring him up to be a decent human being, and baseball played a big part in making him that way.

quote:

So looking back in retrospect, try not to manage anything, because the ride along the way is not in your control, it's in his, your role is to give support in all phases of his life not just baseball.

44

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TPM:

I'm with 44 here...

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Having dreams is what life is all about. Hell im still a kid with dreams. I refuse to let go of my dreams.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
I really think and Believe That a player need's all the encouragement, and also the right Contact's that believe in Him.
If they receive that type of confidence coming from other people beside's there Parent's.
It will boost there Confidence, that maybe I can reach my Goal of making it to the next Level. the EH

I'm not sure which one of these quotes I like better, or believe in more strongly. I think they are both excellent.


My oldest child's last final exam as a college freshman is Monday. I'm not sure where this year went, or really, where all of his years went.

I had a dream to have children--to be a mom--and my dream came true.

quote:

Originally posted by CatSureMom: Dreams and goals should all be rooted in an understanding that in life...anything can happen.

We just have to be open to it and accept it, or change it. Anything can happen.

And everything can happen.

In my post, I did not mean that we should not encourage our players to work hard every day to fulfill their dreams or to ever let go of them.

Helping them to set and define goals and teaching them to be responsible mature adults is much more important than trying to mico manage their LL or HS careers.

The frustration level rises among us parents when we feel our players are not performing to their level as expected, which frustrates the player further. Or didn't get into the school we feel they should have, or they didn't get picked in the round we felt they should have or drafted at all. So the dream, with defined goals, should always be there, but never should there be disappointment in the path one has to take to reach it.
The player, with our guidance, must decide on his own, what path he will chose to achieve his final goal, the tools we should provide for them is to become mature adults and make their own decisions as to their future. That's more important than the tools we teach them on the field. JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Great posts.


floridafan,
The reality of the numbers is bleak, and we think we should not let our sons know that (actually they really do we just think they don't). The reality hits them like a sledge hammer when they get beyond HS. The more expectations we have placed on them, the harder it becomes for them to fulfill them. Some of our kids get caught up in trying to please everyone, and they tend to forget about what's important for them. Funny part is after HS, not much is really in parents control anymore, except to be there to listen, to watch. So if we teach them to take control early, we step back and enjoy, they learn quickly what needs to get done to make their dream (not ours) come true.

I think PG's story about his sons is a perfect example of this and of how very little we really know where they are headed when they are younger, despite how talented they are. Obviously his son took his dream a bit farther, worked really hard to reach his goal.
Without clear goals, the dream is pretty hard to reach.

We have always tried to let our son know how "bleak the numbers were and how low the percentages were for a player to get to one level or the next...our son would always ask us "Mom / Dad did you say zero percent got to the next level?" we would say no...then he would say "there is still a chance and I am going to be one of those in that percent".

As TPM says..."Our sons are special" they will do whatever necessary to follow their dreams.

Great Posts on this topic.

quote:

and you now have to admit to yourself that it's true.

Amazingly similar journeys.............

And, a golden thread, for those searching for the right path..............

i guess we had the dream or a notion of one.son is, was a good player.better than most in our area.but my wife and i are spellbound that people come to watch our kid play.sit in our living room and talk about the kid.amazes me that it happens.and a memory if nothing else.i'm pretty sure he see's it as another level to climb.he is blessed with my genes,tatered and torn. which means he'll have to work forever or hit the lottery.so all i can say is it's wicked cool,but it will end someday.we enjoy it for now.

The dream to play professional baseball is part of the lure and aura of every little kid that plays the game beyond LL.

Every player that straps in on in HS thinks about it.

At the college level it becomes more of a "what if".

But the true test of a players chances come at the sophomore year in college.

Every player that is finishing his sophomore year at the Junior College level will find out the "truth" about their chances to play at what I call "upper level baseball".

For most, this past week-end will be their last game played on a formal college based program.

The key is, are they playing for the love of the game? If so then being a fan isn't bad and playing on adult teams can be just as rewarding.

But it's not your dream, it's your son's. Help him understand that dreams stop when you wake up. That "dream" when awake is only a possible reality with hard work, and with a plan of action to develope the God giving talents he has.

I let my guy follow it his way

01--in HS he had invites every week for pro tryouts--- his attitude was simple--everyone and anyone can go to the tryouts at HS fields--when I get the one to a "special" workout at their stadium I will go-- and he did when the Mets invited him to work out at Shea

02--his immediate goal was to play Division I baseball at as high as a level he was able to attain and he did that playing at New Mexico State in the Big West ( keep in mind he was from NY)

03-- he saw during college what happens when kids got drafted-- what it meant when you were drafted low and became a "fill in" player--to be honest, playing college ball educated him about the draft process and what meant what

04--no he did not get drafted but was offered a free agent situation-- but he had a real good job waiting-- he made his decision-- took the job and got on with his life--

He followed his dream as far as it was going to take him--- no regrets--no looking back--played some great high level Division I baseball and got his degree in Hotel Management and Tourism as well---

How bad is that? Sounds like a dream fulfilled to me

tr
that is what i would call excellent dream managment.the best of both and go out on your own terms.you raised him well.

After our ride on the Merry Go Round I can say that my eldest guy dreams about his next at bat, his next play in the field and his next stolen base. Just the next game basically.

That is about it for him - and his Mom and Dad.



As for the youngest guy - I am afraid to ask. LOL

Great topic IMO.