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Manipulating the draft

V voodoochile100+ posts
New York Times
By MURRAY CHASS

Published: May 2, 2004


Stage Fathers

Archie Manning's role in last weekend's N.F.L. draft recalled a similar maneuver by another father who had been a football star. In 1980, Billy Cannon, who won the Heisman Trophy for Louisiana State in 1959, tried to fix baseball's 1980 amateur draft so that his son, Billy Jr., would go to the Yankees.

The Cannons sent telegrams to all 26 clubs advising them that Billy Jr., a high school shortstop, planned to go to college and that they shouldn't waste a pick by selecting him. Cannon was trying to discourage 25 clubs from drafting his son because the Yankees had agreed to give him a $250,000 signing bonus.

The Yankees, whose first pick in the draft was in the third round, took Cannon, but Commissioner Bowie Kuhn, after other clubs complained, voided the selection and held a lottery, which Cleveland won. The Indians offered Cannon $275,000, but he rejected it and went to Texas A&M.

Cannon never did play baseball. He was a first-round draft choice (Dallas) in the 1984 N.F.L. draft but sustained what turned out to be a career-ending spinal injury halfway through his rookie season.
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V voodoochile100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Can you be original---PLEASE !!!!

I really see no relationship between a football draft and a baseball draft.

I would think a man of your background in the business would see that as well !!!


Duh this WAS a story about the Baseball draft. You better change those meds again.

"Billy Cannon, who won the Heisman Trophy for Louisiana State in 1959, tried to fix baseball's 1980 amateur draft so that his son, Billy Jr., would go to the Yankees."
V voodoochile100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Chill:
VD

Maybe you can speak to the "regularity"
with which a stage father can manipulate the draft???

Is Archie Manning's father typical? No. And the example you give goes back 20+ years.

Very curious about imposter fathers.


Re: manipulating the draft, off the top of my head, Todd van Poppel & possibly Jeff Francoeur come to mind.

Re: "imposter fathers" I have no idea what you mean.
ChillChill1,000+ posts
VD...

Thank you.
I find it a little insulting to MLB GM's and scouting directors to imply that a father can control the draft. That was the clarification I was looking for. It is not commonplace.
It may be attempted regularly by those full of themselves---but it is not successful regularly.

The imposter father comment was simply reflecting my biased opinion of the father I describe above.

Nice observation PAMom Wink
K KidCaro2110+ posts
PA MOM, I have a son going through the draft process. I follow that thread and those topics when I can. I read voodoochiles posts and every post in the draft thread, but I don't post to him, after him or about him. I don't post that often and I don't post negatively so I don't understand your comments. I am not sure if I ever even posted in the same thread as he has before so I don't get your statement. I will tell you what I have noticed. Every time voodoo posts some of you go after him. When I mention it, you go after me. I think you have an agenda. Can you show me where I appeared every time vodoo does? I don't appreciate being singled out as dubious in some form or another for just wanting draft information. Maybe some of you ought to read the rules posted on the front page of the message board. My question is still on the floor. Why so negative towards voodoo? I don't get it.
PAmomPAmom1,000+ posts
Kid---

I don't recall being negative toward voodoo...I am sure that voodoo, as an agent, has a wealth of baseball information to share, particularly with folks like you who are fortunate enough to have sons going through the draft process.

I am often surprised, however, when voodoo replies to others' posts in what I believe is a very UNprofessional manner for someone in his postion---sarcastic, condescending---like how he responded to TRhit in this thread. I was just curious as to why YOU pop up when voodoo posts. I do not have an agenda---do you?

And, yes, I do see that KidCaro21 has only posted a few times, but since you asked, some of those few times were in the same "lively" threads as voodoo --- the "Decision to be Drafted or go to College" thread specifically comes to mind, where someone named "procrustes" also chimed in, never to be heard from again.

Gee, sorry if I offended you...or voodoo...or whomever... Roll Eyes
K KidCaro2110+ posts
You seem to have quite the way with character assassination. Responding in a thread On April 1st by replying to a post by catcherdad04 has nothing to do with "showing up everytime voodoo does". Here is the post I responded to.
quote:
I would like to get back on topic please. This personal stuff doesn't tell me squat about the draft!


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me that alot people confuse the question of "Draft v. College" with the question of "where will I make the most money".

To me, baseball and money are not the same thing. You get drafted, you sign, you play and you have life experiences that can never be found in any college. Is it right for everybody? Probably not. But if you don't want to hear your grandkids saying "Yeah Grandpa - coulda, woulda.." when you tell them you were good enough to get drafted but didn't sign and never played pro-ball, I'd suggest hitting the road with the team.

It's unlikely that you're going to get injured and lose the ability to learn accounting, or that your marketing chops will diminish over time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think that is an excellent post. Great way to view the experience.


Wow! Proof positive. Here is the other one.

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
..are you sure you're from earth?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Some days I could not tell ya!


****ing evidence.

If you are going to accuse me of something, then get it right. There were 31 different posters that responded to that thread. My responses had nothing to do with voodoo, procrustes, or you for that matter. Don't try to twist coincedence into evidence. That is wrong.

quote:
And, yes, I do see that KidCaro21 has only posted a few times, but since you asked, some of those few times were in the same "lively" threads as voodoo --- the "Decision to be Drafted or go to College" thread specifically comes to mind, where someone named "procrustes" also chimed in, never to be heard from again.


I neither addressed voodoo or procustes in that thread. What I posted is above. That is quite a leap for you to make. Your motives are suspicious. Your facts are wrong and some of you are acting like mean teenage girls spreading rumors or untruths to mask your own bad acts. Shame on you. I will not be a part of such childishness. If you are going to be nasty to someone, have enough class to say sorry when wrong.
Moc1Moc1500+ posts
I don't have an axe to grind either way but in this particular thread it was TR that fired the first shot by making the statement:

"Can you be original-PLEASE!!!!" and "I would think a man in the
background of your business would see that as well!!"

Not the way to respond to a post if one wants legitimate back and forth participation.
T trojanx2100+ posts
I don't know if when Kid posts is related to when Voodoo posts or not, and I don't care. In fact his comment was correct.
I have been on HSBBW for a while and TR tends to be negative and condescending quite often. One of my very early posts here explained my son's situation and I gave some of his information. TR responded basically questioning the validity of the info or that someting else was amiss. Thankfully he is not on the Baylor University staff determining who gets scholarships. My son signed on the first day of the early signing period. And just as fortunate he's not drafting for any MLB teams.
So for my part I will appreciate Voodoo's posts which are relevant and tend to ignore TR's unless he comes up with something good, because as my dad says even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
trojanx2

It is truly fun to sit here with the 6th cup of coffee of the day and read the boards as well as the emails that arrive

One gets to notice a few things;

01-- I am what I am--like me or not, I speak my mind and give advice--nobody says you need to follow it. I think my time as a parent and coach speaks for itself in terms of the recruiting process-- don't listen --thats cool

02 -- I notice the same people linking articles but nothing original in their posts.

03-- I notice those that use a number of IDs as they post thinking they can hide their true identity

04-- I notice that this is a website and like many sites the posters here sometimes take it more seriously than one might-- they interpret things to be personal when they are not

05-- I notice that there are those who send e-mails and PMs and include in them venomous content. Yes I have received a few of them in my time here.

06-- I notice that there is a group of newbies posting who continually name call--what is this all about !!!

Footnote--I didn't know pigs ate acorns but then I am not a country boy

To all--have a great day and keep posting
ChillChill1,000+ posts
Gees PAMom
You really better clean up the content of your posts...making an observation like you did really brings them out of the woodwork!

Speaking of players who posess the talent to play both football and baseball, imagine what the home environment would be like as far as recruiting and potential to be drafted out of hs in two sports! There was one top round pick years ago who went with baseball, made his MLB debut 6 years later and now is a freshman...8 years after the baseball draft...back playing football.
K KidCaro2110+ posts
I see reading is a problem for you as well as getting the facts straight. TRhit never addressed any lies my way. Didn't acknowledge any ignorant observations. Just your little "ol' biddy brigade". A question for you. Do you ever offer anything of substance? You are really showing your rear end. I thought this was a moderated web page. I came here to get information and got BS instead. I will no longer visit this site.
T trojanx2100+ posts
TR,
In regards to you being who you are, no problem, I tend to call them as I see 'em also, but with age you might have learned to temper your comments somewhat so as to not come off so negative all the time. Your manner also has you come across, at least in my perception as the person who tries to prove to everyone how good, or how much they know, i.e. an attitude of superiority. While I will believe your representations on face value, realize that there are those here who probably have even more impressive credentials, but due to humility might not blow their own horn.

I don't get wound to tight about a message board even one about something I'm passionate about, but I would much rather be able to enjoy everyone's input including yours. So just a piece of advice, take it for what it's worth, it's obviously not costing you anything, "try not to be or come across so negative, if you find factuals errors or something to disagree don't add the personal snipe, stick to the facts and I believe these threads will be much more helpful and enjoyable. Or maybe cut back on those 6 cups of coffee.

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