It's easy to sit back and pick someone apart when you've never been in their shoes. He's a different person than you or your kids. You don't have to like it, but you also can't expect someone else to live up to your standards. If so you will continually be disappointed.
I know there are a lot of coaches who constantly tell their players to act like they've been there before. It's good advice. In this case he has been there before and this is how he acts. If it bothers you that's your problem, not his.
It's entertainment, and he's very entertaining. With all of his lack of respect for the game and lack of hustle, in your face attitude and complete disrespect for his role in the distruction of "things as they were back then", his team has found themselves on the biggest stage in baseball and he's providing the goods when called on. Pitcher's then might have plunked him for his antics, or they may have done it because it was the only option available. That or watch him pose.
You want to know what I found really sad about the LLWS. They asked all the American players who their favorite player was and the Japanese players their favorite subject in school. That's sad.
Manny or anyone else's antics on the field are the least of my worries. He's a heck of a hitter and I'm glad my kid get's to enjoy watching him PLAY!!
Dad, Dad, Dad....you're just punching all my buttons today, aren't you? 
Just as well I know you...and where you live 
Using the words girl, ladies, or woman as a pejorative term aggravates me. And for all of you thinking I'm overreacting, substitute a racial, religious, or ethnic group term in the sentence where you might have said 'girl', etc. Geddit now?
See, bbregie --- the gender thing did stir it up!
Just as well I know you...and where you live Using the words girl, ladies, or woman as a pejorative term aggravates me. And for all of you thinking I'm overreacting, substitute a racial, religious, or ethnic group term in the sentence where you might have said 'girl', etc. Geddit now?
See, bbregie --- the gender thing did stir it up!
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
Terry Francona Phone Call to manny's house: "Hi! Is Manny home?
Mrs. Manny: "No he's still on first."
Hey, baseballregie. I like Manny. He is who he is, and he's fun to watch. 2B loves him - he says that nice relaxed swing is a thing of beauty. I think all the showboating these days has as much to do with SportsCenter as anything.
quote:Originally posted by deaconspoint:
It's easy to sit back and pick someone apart when you've never been in their shoes. He's a different person than you or your kids. You don't have to like it, but you also can't expect someone else to live up to your standards. If so you will continually be disappointed.
That is heading down a slippery slope.
So anything goes? "It's okay for Johnny to be an axe murderer, you just don't understand the tough time he had as a kid."
No standards? I hope my kids never have to live in a world with no standards.
quote:Originally posted by 2Bmom:
Hey, baseballregie. I like Manny. He is who he is, and he's fun to watch. 2B loves him - he says that nice relaxed swing is a thing of beauty. I think all the showboating these days has as much to do with SportsCenter as anything.
What I'm talking about is respect for the game and it's obvious that some of you thinks that's "old style" or just plain stupid.
Baseball is our game here, and if any portion of us doesn't find his antics entertaining, then discussing same is a perfectly vaild activity.
I'm not disappointed and I don't have a problem. I don't find him entertaining; I find him cringe-making. If I wanted to see that behavior, I'd watch the NBA. There are many quality hitters to watch in MLB; we're not dependent on Ramirez for that.
And if there were more baseball going on right now, I wouldn't be talking about him at all! (Hey, 'desperate times', and all that)
I'm not disappointed and I don't have a problem. I don't find him entertaining; I find him cringe-making. If I wanted to see that behavior, I'd watch the NBA. There are many quality hitters to watch in MLB; we're not dependent on Ramirez for that.
And if there were more baseball going on right now, I wouldn't be talking about him at all! (Hey, 'desperate times', and all that
)I'm totaly lostquote:by MCO: Using the words girl, ladies, or woman as a pejorative term aggravates me. And for all of you thinking I'm overreacting, substitute a racial, religious, or ethnic group term in the sentence where you might have said 'girl', etc. Geddit now?
D-04 bristled at being labeled a girly-man .. or was something deleted?
I did try the substitution thing, but have no religious data to tell if more Catholic, Protestant, Jewish folks favor Manny - tho I have my suspicions
if you think I'm being over analytical, try substituting the square root of -1 for Manny
quote:Originally posted by Texan:quote:Originally posted by deaconspoint:
It's easy to sit back and pick someone apart when you've never been in their shoes. He's a different person than you or your kids. You don't have to like it, but you also can't expect someone else to live up to your standards. If so you will continually be disappointed.
That is heading down a slippery slope.
So anything goes? "It's okay for Johnny to be an axe murderer, you just don't understand the tough time he had as a kid."
No standards? I hope my kids never have to live in a world with no standards.
Notice I did not say "no standards", I said "your standards". Not yours in particular Texan, but anyone's personal expectations.
There's no slippery slope. We're not talking about criminals here. We're talking about someone showing their enthusiams differently than you or someone else might like. I don't follow how this has any impact on Johnny's future. You went pretty far out there with that one.
quote:Dad, Dad, Dad....you're just punching all my buttons today, aren't you? Just as well I know you...and where you live
Was it the... Hey I've been called worse... part?
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Dad, Dad, Dad....you're just punching all my buttons today, aren't you? Just as well I know you...and where you live
Was it the... Hey I've been called worse... part?
I'm betting that was it.
Sorry there, DP. Seems that the ultraliberals (not saying you're one) usually start with "not held to your standards" and quickly move to "no standards".
No offense intended.
Although I must disagree on one point. I'm not talking about enthusiasm. I'm talking about someone not putting out their best effort - whether you choose to call it a sport or his job. The latter seems to be appropriate, given his millions in salary.
No offense intended.
Although I must disagree on one point. I'm not talking about enthusiasm. I'm talking about someone not putting out their best effort - whether you choose to call it a sport or his job. The latter seems to be appropriate, given his millions in salary.
quote:What I'm talking about is respect for the game and it's obvious that some of you thinks that's "old style" or just plain stupid.
I respectfully disagree. There have always been characters in baseball. Some are stoic, some are demonstrative, some are somewhere in the middle. JMO, neither one necessarily means that the player doesn't respect the game.
I will admit, though, that while I don't mind it when Manny admires his work, I just can't stand it when Bonds does.
I agree with you, Orlando.
quote:Originally posted by deaconspoint:quote:Originally posted by Texan:quote:Originally posted by deaconspoint:
It's easy to sit back and pick someone apart when you've never been in their shoes. He's a different person than you or your kids. You don't have to like it, but you also can't expect someone else to live up to your standards. If so you will continually be disappointed.
That is heading down a slippery slope.
So anything goes? "It's okay for Johnny to be an axe murderer, you just don't understand the tough time he had as a kid."
No standards? I hope my kids never have to live in a world with no standards.
Notice I did not say "no standards", I said "your standards". Not yours in particular Texan, but anyone's personal expectations.
There's no slippery slope. We're not talking about criminals here. We're talking about someone showing their enthusiams differently than you or someone else might like. I don't follow how this has any impact on Johnny's future. You went pretty far out there with that one.
You sound really confused. What the heck do you mean?
quote:I agree with you, Orlando.
...on the not enough baseball thing. I'll stay out of the other
quote:2bmom posted: I respectfully disagree. There have always been characters in baseball. Some are stoic, some are demonstrative, some are somewhere in the middle. JMO, neither one necessarily means that the player doesn't respect the game.
It is noteworthy the RS don't let diversity inhibit achievement. Other teams prefer a more businesslike approach. One way isn't better, just different.
quote:Originally posted by Orlando:
Baseball is our game here, and if any portion of us doesn't find his antics entertaining, then discussing same is a perfectly vaild activity.
I'm not disappointed and I don't have a problem. I don't find him entertaining; I find him cringe-making. If I wanted to see that behavior, I'd watch the NBA. There are many quality hitters to watch in MLB; we're not dependent on Ramirez for that.
And if there were more baseball going on right now, I wouldn't be talking about him at all! (Hey, 'desperate times', and all that
I never said it wasn't a valid discussion. I just said it was easy. There are many great hitters in MLB. He just happens to be one of them. The good news is there are many to choose from. Each probably have something in their character that I may not agree with. So be it. Doesn't make them a bad person and doesn't affect my reality in the least.
They're playing baseball for a living. A pretty incredible living in some cases. I'm not exactly sure how I might act if that were the case.
quote:Originally posted by 2Bmom:
I will admit, though, that while I don't mind it when Manny admires his work, I just can't stand it when Bonds does.
I think that is an excellent observation. I think Manny gets a pass from many (including me) because of the innocent vibe he gives off. Bonds, Terrell Owens, and others seem to get mostly scorn because the public seems turned off to them in general. It's interesting but Chad Johnson of the Bengals does many of the same things as Terrell Owens yet he seems to get more of a pass from the public. Some players have a certain amount of charm about them and other don't. Manny's charm is boyish enthusiasm and most importantly production.
When I was a kid, one of my favorite players was Reggie Jackson. Many thought he was a hot dog but I loved him because he was Mr. October and he dove when sliding into the base. Manny seems harmless to me where others I cannot stand the site of them sometimes.
quote:Originally posted by baseballregie:
You sound really confused. What the heck do you mean?
I am confused.
quote:Originally posted by baseballregie:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Dad, Dad, Dad....you're just punching all my buttons today, aren't you? Just as well I know you...and where you live
Was it the... Hey I've been called worse... part?
I'm betting that was it.
Spot on, bbreg!
I alos agree with Orlando.
Great talent but a very poor example for young ball players.
The slow walk after hitting a HR is hard to watch.
Great talent but a very poor example for young ball players.
The slow walk after hitting a HR is hard to watch.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Manny seems harmless to me where others I cannot stand the site of them sometimes.
Good point. It's all in your perception of what's taking place. Some folks see it as an afront or a lack of respect for the game. Other's may see it as somebody just having a ball!! Playing it up for the fans. Not all of them, but his fans. The fan who really likes TO has no problem with his antics, while they make others cringe.
From one person it's offensive, from others, not so much.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I alos agree with Orlando.
Great talent but a very poor example for young ball players.
The slow walk after hitting a HR is hard to watch.
Yes, he's earning a lot of money (so are drug lords in Colombia) and he's a VERY good hitter. But, in the words of Steve Prefontaine: "to give less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
The guy loafed in a game 7... I don't need any more info to form my opinions.
The guy loafed in a game 7... I don't need any more info to form my opinions.
quote:Originally posted by Orlando:quote:Originally posted by baseballregie:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Dad, Dad, Dad....you're just punching all my buttons today, aren't you? Just as well I know you...and where you live
Was it the... Hey I've been called worse... part?
I'm betting that was it.
Spot on, bbreg!
Maybe I should have more accurately said "I've called a socially insensitive clod before."
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The slow walk after hitting a HR is hard to watch.
Again, perception. I would guess there are a lot of folks in those stands and watching on TV who have no problem watching this. These are the folks he's doing it for after all.
For me personally it can be hard to watch. I don't like to have to tell me son, I better never see you do that. That doesn't take away from the fact that he's a heck of a ball player and a lot of fun to watch.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by Orlando:quote:Originally posted by baseballregie:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Dad, Dad, Dad....you're just punching all my buttons today, aren't you? Just as well I know you...and where you live
Was it the... Hey I've been called worse... part?
I'm betting that was it.
Spot on, bbreg!
Maybe I should have more accurately said "I've called a socially insensitive clod before."
This might be a hsbbweb record for the nested quote
Boy oh boy, when I came on here a while back to chastize A-Rod for his lack of clutch and Cooler label, the nasties came out of the woodwork.
I don't know anything about Manny's upbringing, only that it was in a tough part of town. The guy was never a trouble maker. He has always been a good teammate, just very unsure of himself in front of the media and fans.
He did come up with the Indians, and neither in the minors or majors, did they do anything to teach him the respect of the game. They excepted his airheadedness and mistakes because he could hit. The Bosox fans started using "Manyy being Manny" because from the moment they saw him play, they realized he really wasn't present half the time. If you see him as often as I do, he plays a strangely respectable leftfield, has a good arm and can really chug the bases on certain days. But he gets lost in himself, and the media loves all the acceptance he gets for being an airhead. They call it "Tolerance". HorseFeathers!!! At this point in his career, he got very excited for his walk off homerun against the Angels, because he had never done it before. But then he turned it into the "Everytime I hit a homer in the playoffs I'm going to throw up my arms in praise of myself act" and no one on the club is saying anything either. I believe that Ortiz or the Captain should pull him aside and finally inform him that those antics are offensive to big league pitchers, and that Beckett would put one in your ear if you did it to him.
I don't know anything about Manny's upbringing, only that it was in a tough part of town. The guy was never a trouble maker. He has always been a good teammate, just very unsure of himself in front of the media and fans.
He did come up with the Indians, and neither in the minors or majors, did they do anything to teach him the respect of the game. They excepted his airheadedness and mistakes because he could hit. The Bosox fans started using "Manyy being Manny" because from the moment they saw him play, they realized he really wasn't present half the time. If you see him as often as I do, he plays a strangely respectable leftfield, has a good arm and can really chug the bases on certain days. But he gets lost in himself, and the media loves all the acceptance he gets for being an airhead. They call it "Tolerance". HorseFeathers!!! At this point in his career, he got very excited for his walk off homerun against the Angels, because he had never done it before. But then he turned it into the "Everytime I hit a homer in the playoffs I'm going to throw up my arms in praise of myself act" and no one on the club is saying anything either. I believe that Ortiz or the Captain should pull him aside and finally inform him that those antics are offensive to big league pitchers, and that Beckett would put one in your ear if you did it to him.
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Yes, he's earning a lot of money (so are drug lords in Colombia) and he's a VERY good hitter. But, in the words of Steve Prefontaine: "to give less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
Maybe he is doing his best? He is a first ballot HOF, WS MVP. If he cared, Manny might ask "Jeesh! What do you want?"
In less than an hour he's been equated to axe-murderers and columbian drug lords. I don't think he's ever been arrested.
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Yes, he's earning a lot of money (so are drug lords in Colombia) and he's a VERY good hitter. But, in the words of Steve Prefontaine: "to give less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
The guy loafed in a game 7... I don't need any more info to form my opinions.
I will certainly shy away from those drug lords as role models, thanks.
He is one expensive loafer though. Gotwood? jpeg, please?
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by Orlando:quote:Originally posted by baseballregie:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Dad, Dad, Dad....you're just punching all my buttons today, aren't you? Just as well I know you...and where you live
Was it the... Hey I've been called worse... part?
I'm betting that was it.
Spot on, bbreg!
Maybe I should have more accurately said "I've called a socially insensitive clod before."
This might be a hsbbweb record for the nested quoteGo easy on em Orlando
Actually, I don't have anything to add. Dad's behaving himself. I just really wanted to...um...nest.
One's perspective has everything to do with it.
There's a great old English sitcom, "Yes, Minister" which had a running gag about "irregular verbs"; in this case, it would be:
My guy has a childlike enthusiasm for the game.
Your guy is a showboating, hot dogging jerk.
His guy is an axe-murdering Columbian drug lord.
There's a great old English sitcom, "Yes, Minister" which had a running gag about "irregular verbs"; in this case, it would be:
My guy has a childlike enthusiasm for the game.
Your guy is a showboating, hot dogging jerk.
His guy is an axe-murdering Columbian drug lord.
You forgot "Loafer"quote:His guy is an axe-murdering Columbian drug lord.
quote:Originally posted by Orlando:quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by Orlando:quote:Originally posted by baseballregie:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Dad, Dad, Dad....you're just punching all my buttons today, aren't you? Just as well I know you...and where you live
Was it the... Hey I've been called worse... part?
I'm betting that was it.
Spot on, bbreg!
Maybe I should have more accurately said "I've called a socially insensitive clod before."
This might be a hsbbweb record for the nested quote
Actually, I don't have anything to add. Dad's behaving himself. I just really wanted to...um...nest.
I wonder how many nests it would take before
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Although I would like the situation to be handled differently with Manny, I do sense a bit of a double standard here.
When Manny hit the double with Big Papi at 2nd with 2 outs, did you notice that Ortiz just kind of jogged off base to see if the ball was going to be foul and then started to run late? After a couple of foul balls, he didn't go hard with two outs when the ball was hit. He should have scored easily, but only wound up at 3rd.
Why aren't we BBQ'ing him also? Because he's likeable?
When Manny hit the double with Big Papi at 2nd with 2 outs, did you notice that Ortiz just kind of jogged off base to see if the ball was going to be foul and then started to run late? After a couple of foul balls, he didn't go hard with two outs when the ball was hit. He should have scored easily, but only wound up at 3rd.
Why aren't we BBQ'ing him also? Because he's likeable?
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
Although I would like the situation to be handled differently with Manny, I do sense a bit of a double standard here.
When Manny hit the double with Big Papi at 2nd with 2 outs, did you notice that Ortiz just kind of jogged off base to see if the ball was going to be foul and then started to run late? After a couple of foul balls, he didn't go hard with two outs when the ball was hit. He should have scored easily, but only wound up at 3rd.
Why aren't we BBQ'ing him also? Because he's likeable?
Because it never happened? Please check the box score. 2nd Inning Ortiz 2 out doubles, scoring Youkilis, Manny walks, Lowell Pops out for 3rd out. Actually he was on first base in the 4th and went to third on Manny's double. 1st to 3rd with a bad wheel isn't jaking.
I guess they all know he can't have anymore cortisone this year and is scheduled for right knee surgery the day after the World Series. Nice try though.
The guy has amazing talent but is there ANYBODY in MLB that sets a worse example for young ballplayers than he does?
----------------------------------------------------
to answer the original question, he is a bad example for young ball players. he doesn't hustle, fields with one hand. in my day that was reggie smith.
he is a poster child for the acedemic under achievers of the baseball world.and there are more than a couple out there. i do find him comical at times, but could have choked him when he didn't run hard when he hit the ball of the wall.but i have come to be tolerant of his antics. like when he was looking to buy a house and had to call his agent to see if he could afford it.
the question should be .why do we see manny actions as ok, yet if our kids did this stuff we'd be all over them? i know ,i know,he didn't ask to be a role model, but who does?
just manny being manny.
----------------------------------------------------
to answer the original question, he is a bad example for young ball players. he doesn't hustle, fields with one hand. in my day that was reggie smith.
he is a poster child for the acedemic under achievers of the baseball world.and there are more than a couple out there. i do find him comical at times, but could have choked him when he didn't run hard when he hit the ball of the wall.but i have come to be tolerant of his antics. like when he was looking to buy a house and had to call his agent to see if he could afford it.
the question should be .why do we see manny actions as ok, yet if our kids did this stuff we'd be all over them? i know ,i know,he didn't ask to be a role model, but who does?
just manny being manny.
Baseballregie:
I can tell you and all who is Manny in real life, no the one you see in TV, or the one you read in newspapers, or the one that sports commentators it describes.
Manny is a very humil and shy person. For that reason, baseball journalist stigmatize him as a "hotdog", thinking that he doesn't want to talk to the press. This situation created a vicious circle that make him to hate the sports press people too.
As soom some sport journalist were knowing him and changing their approach, he was changing his also, but still, they don't make too much effort to understand what he is saying and again ridiculicing him, any time they have the opportunity. specially Boston media(same that happens with Ted Williams before)
Why don't you see him as a role model?...because he doesn't allow nothing to distrac his great hitting?. Just because you don't understand his personality?
Let me tell you that he is a role model for thousand of young players that have baseball as the unique way out of poverty. And not the poverty described in this country as income of $18000 or less per year, I am talking about the real one, sleeping on the floor, skipping some meals every day, no education at all, and not health care either.
You said that if he were not a baseball player he were who knows what, let me tell you something about Manny. He have grown in Washington High New York, in the middle of drugs and other different kind of crimes. It was very easy for him to fallow what most of his neighbors did, to sale drugs and make a lot of money and power the "easy way". Instead, Manny chose to wake up at 6:00 am every morning, walk to school and run for hours at the baseball field, and practice before the classes start. He have worked very hard to be the kind of player he is, and today after be famous and millionary he still been one of the most hard worker of the game.
Please, before to judge a person taking in consideracion just the appearance of that person or having supposition as a reason, do a little research at least, you have to think that in this website that have so many members somebody knows the truth of every comment. Your comment is not truth and was not fair.
I can tell you and all who is Manny in real life, no the one you see in TV, or the one you read in newspapers, or the one that sports commentators it describes.
Manny is a very humil and shy person. For that reason, baseball journalist stigmatize him as a "hotdog", thinking that he doesn't want to talk to the press. This situation created a vicious circle that make him to hate the sports press people too.
As soom some sport journalist were knowing him and changing their approach, he was changing his also, but still, they don't make too much effort to understand what he is saying and again ridiculicing him, any time they have the opportunity. specially Boston media(same that happens with Ted Williams before)
Why don't you see him as a role model?...because he doesn't allow nothing to distrac his great hitting?. Just because you don't understand his personality?
Let me tell you that he is a role model for thousand of young players that have baseball as the unique way out of poverty. And not the poverty described in this country as income of $18000 or less per year, I am talking about the real one, sleeping on the floor, skipping some meals every day, no education at all, and not health care either.
You said that if he were not a baseball player he were who knows what, let me tell you something about Manny. He have grown in Washington High New York, in the middle of drugs and other different kind of crimes. It was very easy for him to fallow what most of his neighbors did, to sale drugs and make a lot of money and power the "easy way". Instead, Manny chose to wake up at 6:00 am every morning, walk to school and run for hours at the baseball field, and practice before the classes start. He have worked very hard to be the kind of player he is, and today after be famous and millionary he still been one of the most hard worker of the game.
Please, before to judge a person taking in consideracion just the appearance of that person or having supposition as a reason, do a little research at least, you have to think that in this website that have so many members somebody knows the truth of every comment. Your comment is not truth and was not fair.
quote:Originally posted by 20dad:
The guy has amazing talent but is there ANYBODY in MLB that sets a worse example for young ballplayers than he does?
----------------------------------------------------
to answer the original question, he is a bad example for young ball players. he doesn't hustle, fields with one hand. in my day that was reggie smith.
he is a poster child for the acedemic under achievers of the baseball world.and there are more than a couple out there. i do find him comical at times, but could have choked him when he didn't run hard when he hit the ball of the wall.but i have come to be tolerant of his antics. like when he was looking to buy a house and had to call his agent to see if he could afford it.
the question should be .why do we see manny actions as ok, yet if our kids did this stuff we'd be all over them? i know ,i know,he didn't ask to be a role model, but who does?
just manny being manny.
Sure he's a role model. But only if we want him to be. And who says we have to use his entire persona as a model. Do I want my son to grow up to be just like Manny? No. Better than a Columbian drug loafer, but still less than I would hope for. I think if my son told me he wanted to hit like Manny I'd be ok with that. I wouldn't mind him being able to play QB like Tom Brady either, but I'd hope he might make a few better decisions in his personal life.
Manny's actions are ok because he is not my kid. My kids are watching him and may even look at some of his actions as being cool or something. That's where I come in.