Goodnight Shep, Sweet Dreams.
I have to go to work now. bye the EH
Maybe we both use a filter to decide who to talk with.
My biggest frustration is I often find where I want it for the player/coach more than the player/coach wants it for himself.
Fortunately, those are easy to weed out. And, unfortunately, they are prevalent here. Ask a kid to edit his poorly spelled, poorly worded post, and see what happens. Or, tell a high school coach point blank he's dead wrong on his hitting theory, or tell a former player he's dead wrong up front....watch how they respond. BTW, 95 out of 100 are.
So, I use a filter. If he can overlook me, I might have one worth working with. If not, thank you very much. Saves me some time and energy.
My biggest frustration is I often find where I want it for the player/coach more than the player/coach wants it for himself.
Fortunately, those are easy to weed out. And, unfortunately, they are prevalent here. Ask a kid to edit his poorly spelled, poorly worded post, and see what happens. Or, tell a high school coach point blank he's dead wrong on his hitting theory, or tell a former player he's dead wrong up front....watch how they respond. BTW, 95 out of 100 are.
So, I use a filter. If he can overlook me, I might have one worth working with. If not, thank you very much. Saves me some time and energy.
It is truly amazing how everyone else is wrong and you and Blue whatever his name is, are always right--- why arent you and he the end all be all for baseball at all level? where is your video and book? and your GURU WEBSITE?
Sorry, you got the filter.
quote:My biggest frustration is I often find where I want it for the player/coach more than the player/coach wants it for himself
Its also the same with other players.
This is exactly why I'm just teaching and not coaching. The one year I took Head Varsity baseball position, we did make state playoffs but the players I had recruited were so spread out and not focused enough or we could have won the state easily, hands-down. It was at this point I decided to just teach and work with "only" the ones who wanted it as much as I did. Few and far between but the ones I chose to help are now in Big Leagues or have been.
We have got to do something to get the EH off that darn night-shift
Have a great day.Peace Brothers,
Shep
quote:Originally posted by theEH:
Infopimp/BlueDog,
Are the same person??
THEY ARE NOT! I've had several opportunities to share thoughts with BlueDog. While he and I have not always agreed, we have agreed to disagree and have had extremely constructive discussions. I truly respect what he brings to the table. InfoPimp? While I do respect his knowledge, we'd never run in the same circles. I do believe he is very sincere in his mission to discuss/breakdown hitting mechanics.
Good Morning all.
Shep, the good thing about the Grave Yard Shift is I don't miss any of my Son's Game's. And that's worth it. the EH
Shep, the good thing about the Grave Yard Shift is I don't miss any of my Son's Game's. And that's worth it. the EH
I can understand there desire to help only those willing to put in the work, and not wanting to waste there time on wanna be's.
I just believe in being just a little more Kind. the EH
I just believe in being just a little more Kind. the EH
I'm glad that whatever suggestion was taken and employed paid off in two hits.
A very interesting topic arose but has been buried in the sniping. RETENTION.
Much of what is taught today is explained in the physics of the movement. Angular displacement, leverage and so forth.
Terms from 'good ole country baseball' say the same things without complicating the explanation.
Depending on the age and level of play, simplicity always seems to travel faster and farther.
Terms such as
'make the bat sing' helps teach and recognize bat speed.
'squash the bug' helps to teach proper stance and weight shift
'finish your swing' helps promote good follow through
Keeping it simple in teaching has always been most effective at any level and promotes better retention of the lessons.
As to the swing or making contact, I have always been one to teach that a hitter should have three approaches in an at bat. The batter should be able to swing the bat for the best contact possible. The batter should be able to bunt with reasonable control of the bat in placing the bunt. The batter should be able to 'choke and poke' to go the other way.
I have found that these three approaches and abilities taught and retained produce the more productive batter.
There are many views and statistical analyisis that will say different things, but between the lines, keeping it simple works.
A very interesting topic arose but has been buried in the sniping. RETENTION.
Much of what is taught today is explained in the physics of the movement. Angular displacement, leverage and so forth.
Terms from 'good ole country baseball' say the same things without complicating the explanation.
Depending on the age and level of play, simplicity always seems to travel faster and farther.
Terms such as
'make the bat sing' helps teach and recognize bat speed.
'squash the bug' helps to teach proper stance and weight shift
'finish your swing' helps promote good follow through
Keeping it simple in teaching has always been most effective at any level and promotes better retention of the lessons.
As to the swing or making contact, I have always been one to teach that a hitter should have three approaches in an at bat. The batter should be able to swing the bat for the best contact possible. The batter should be able to bunt with reasonable control of the bat in placing the bunt. The batter should be able to 'choke and poke' to go the other way.
I have found that these three approaches and abilities taught and retained produce the more productive batter.
There are many views and statistical analyisis that will say different things, but between the lines, keeping it simple works.
quote:Originally posted by WillieBobo:
...Terms from 'good ole country baseball' say the same things without complicating the explanation.
You couldn't be more wrong.
quote:'make the bat sing' helps teach and recognize bat speed.
Exhibit A
quote:'squash the bug' helps to teach proper stance and weight shift
Exhibit B and THE main piece of evidence. You couldn't be more wrong.
quote:'finish your swing' helps promote good follow through
Exhibit C
As long as these things produce the desired results, I don't mind being wrong.
quote:Originally posted by WillieBobo:
As long as these things produce the desired results, I don't mind being wrong.
Say these cues to a group of 25 and you get 20 or more different interpretations.
That is why they are wrong.
That is why baseball lags in the world of instruction.
The old terminology is pitiful and confusing. Everything open to interpretation.
The new terminology goes a long way toward fixing that.
And those truly interested in hitting and hitting instruction can not deny that fact. If they do, they are filtered.
I have never squished a bug with my left foot and at the same time had more weight on my right. Have you? It is possible but few do it that way.
The new terminology may be more precise, but it requires far more technology than a game should.
Once the class room session has been completed, the student would then be required to exercise that which he has just been taught and be filmed in doing so.
Using the films, the instructor then shows the student what the lesson actually was trying to teach rather than what the student interpreted it to be.
I'll stick with such things as 'try this, if it works great'.
The high tech instruction that has become popular in the United States has shown its worth in the popularity and number of foreign born players in the pros.
If it works for you, wonderful. I'll keep doing what works for me.
Once the class room session has been completed, the student would then be required to exercise that which he has just been taught and be filmed in doing so.
Using the films, the instructor then shows the student what the lesson actually was trying to teach rather than what the student interpreted it to be.
I'll stick with such things as 'try this, if it works great'.
The high tech instruction that has become popular in the United States has shown its worth in the popularity and number of foreign born players in the pros.
If it works for you, wonderful. I'll keep doing what works for me.
Don't address the issues when they expose the problem.
Just ignore the problem and say "well, I'm going to do it my way".
That, folks, is baseball.
How many times have you squished a bug and had more weight on the other foot?
Or do you even understand what is being said?
Just ignore the problem and say "well, I'm going to do it my way".
That, folks, is baseball.
How many times have you squished a bug and had more weight on the other foot?
Or do you even understand what is being said?
The issue that you seem concerned with is universality in terms and methods. That would make a wonderful textbook. I hope that you have the time and inclination to write it.
Such a textbook would convey all the study and research that you have gleaned in your search. The instructors will know what they wish to convey, but they will still need to find the language that will get their point across.
In real life, students of the game are not interested in why things happen correctly, only in that they do. These students can range from the child hitting balls tossed by his dad to major leaguers.
Wouldn't it be terrible, if after all the time and effort put into this text book, that someone would come along and prove your theories wrong through their different approach?
I'll hold out for the next instructor who produces another Ted Williams
Such a textbook would convey all the study and research that you have gleaned in your search. The instructors will know what they wish to convey, but they will still need to find the language that will get their point across.
In real life, students of the game are not interested in why things happen correctly, only in that they do. These students can range from the child hitting balls tossed by his dad to major leaguers.
Wouldn't it be terrible, if after all the time and effort put into this text book, that someone would come along and prove your theories wrong through their different approach?
I'll hold out for the next instructor who produces another Ted Williams
Filter engaged.
If we can't stay on point I'm not interested.
Gave you three tries.
If we can't stay on point I'm not interested.
Gave you three tries.
Thank you and good luck in your approach.
Info,
Just to play devils advocate. You say that stated numerous things about the problem with baseball instruction. Yet players are hitting home runs in record numbers. Many of the hitters are from other countries that don't have the technology and information that we have. Most of the players that are hitting in the major leagues today learned from these faulty coaches and techniques. I agree that we should always look to learn and improve, but if you blindly fall in love with one belief and do not ever open the possibility to others you will only have success with a minute few. Hitters take various thought processes to the plate, some can directly conflict each other, yet they can both be successful. I don't think that we can say that 95% of coaches are wrong in their approach because it differs from yours. What we can say is that you do it differently from 95% of the coaches and have the same results. Although as we both agree, some coaches don't know what they are doing, but in my findings that is not the majority.
Just to play devils advocate. You say that stated numerous things about the problem with baseball instruction. Yet players are hitting home runs in record numbers. Many of the hitters are from other countries that don't have the technology and information that we have. Most of the players that are hitting in the major leagues today learned from these faulty coaches and techniques. I agree that we should always look to learn and improve, but if you blindly fall in love with one belief and do not ever open the possibility to others you will only have success with a minute few. Hitters take various thought processes to the plate, some can directly conflict each other, yet they can both be successful. I don't think that we can say that 95% of coaches are wrong in their approach because it differs from yours. What we can say is that you do it differently from 95% of the coaches and have the same results. Although as we both agree, some coaches don't know what they are doing, but in my findings that is not the majority.
quote:Originally posted by hsballcoach:
Most of the players that are hitting in the major leagues today learned from these faulty coaches and techniques.
Incorrect statement.
quote:if you blindly fall in love with one belief and do not ever open the possibility to others you will only have success with a minute few.
Shows a lack of understanding of the issue.
quote:I don't think that we can say that 95% of coaches are wrong in their approach because it differs from yours.
Sure we can. Is it 95% or 90% or 85%. I don't know. But their approach doesn't stand the video test.
quote:Although as we both agree, some coaches don't know what they are doing, but in my findings that is not the majority.
Vast majority. Proven by their own words compared to video.
Maybe this will help you understand. From Ichiro to McGwire to Bonds to Pujols to Gwynn et al........THEY DO THE SAME THINGS!!!
These "same things" are not negotiable.
No matter how many times you and others keep saying "there is more than one way", and "your way isn't the only way", etc etc........you're wrong.
The truth is you don't know what they ALL do. And neither does the majority of the establishment. I know some hate that term but it's shorthand at this point.
Info,
This thread was started by an young man asking for help. You posted 19 times and never once offered anything to help him out.
Did he offend you in some way?
This thread was started by an young man asking for help. You posted 19 times and never once offered anything to help him out.
Did he offend you in some way?
I guess he did when he got two hits using a different method.
quote:Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:
Info,
This thread was started by an young man asking for help. You posted 19 times and never once offered anything to help him out.
Did he offend you in some way?
Are you unable to respond to the current topic?
Feel a little inadequate so you need to change the subject?
Feel a little "painted in a corner" as "one of those".
I get it.
Here is my evidence......
This is your first post in the thread. What does it say? NOTHING.
Filter is turned on for you. No evidence of any knowledge. Not worth my time.
OK, I give up.
What has the topic become?
Rentention of Knowledge?
The Perfect Swing Mechanics?
Universality of Terminology?
Mental Problems?
Or has some other topic appeared that has yet to become obvious?
What has the topic become?
Rentention of Knowledge?
The Perfect Swing Mechanics?
Universality of Terminology?
Mental Problems?
Or has some other topic appeared that has yet to become obvious?
I don't know about anyone else, but I am tired of seeing Infopimp's posts which focus 90% on insulting other members, and 10% on the topic of baseball. I have given him a timeout.
Info,
Do everyone in here a favor and filter all of us.
I was simply asking what you were offering the young gentleman who asked for help.
The topic is unchanged, other than your obvious attempts to just argue with those who were offering him help.
I orginally read the thread because I was interested in the subject and my original question stands.
What did you offer him ? His original post was certainly comprehensible, which is more than most everyone here thinks of this jibberish you keep throwing out.
So i know you will appreciate this one.
Son, you have to be able to open the can before you can paint.
Do everyone in here a favor and filter all of us.
I was simply asking what you were offering the young gentleman who asked for help.
The topic is unchanged, other than your obvious attempts to just argue with those who were offering him help.
I orginally read the thread because I was interested in the subject and my original question stands.
What did you offer him ? His original post was certainly comprehensible, which is more than most everyone here thinks of this jibberish you keep throwing out.
So i know you will appreciate this one.
Son, you have to be able to open the can before you can paint.
I enjoy Info's attempts at being right and everyone else wrong, while he offers no input or suggestion.
I have had some good laughs reading his posts.
Reminds me of Irwin Corey
“HowEVER!” said Professor Irwin Corey, the World’s Foremost Authority, as he contemplates the leadership of these United States. Whenever Irwin Corey takes a breath and says “HowEVER!”—and he’s been saying it for more than 60 years now, in and out of places like the Village Vanguard—you know that he’s off on a new lunatic spiel of non sequitur, ultra sequitur, and/or parabolic sequitur that makes no sense whatsoever except that it makes perfect sense.
The topic is aptly named for people who are always right yet never say anything of value.
I have had some good laughs reading his posts.
Reminds me of Irwin Corey
“HowEVER!” said Professor Irwin Corey, the World’s Foremost Authority, as he contemplates the leadership of these United States. Whenever Irwin Corey takes a breath and says “HowEVER!”—and he’s been saying it for more than 60 years now, in and out of places like the Village Vanguard—you know that he’s off on a new lunatic spiel of non sequitur, ultra sequitur, and/or parabolic sequitur that makes no sense whatsoever except that it makes perfect sense.
The topic is aptly named for people who are always right yet never say anything of value.
Lets go back to the young mans post where he asked how to clear his mind
We are now back at square one--- for me it is simple-- stop thinking about what all you are hearing from coaches, instructions, videos etc--you step in the box and say I am going to mash the first good pitch I see---I am going to be the best hitter I can be in this at bat
All of the 6 pages of gibberish and BS mean nothing--- pick up you bat--step into the batters box and mash son--- hit the first good pitch you see
Why do we try to make it so freaking complicated !!!!
We are now back at square one--- for me it is simple-- stop thinking about what all you are hearing from coaches, instructions, videos etc--you step in the box and say I am going to mash the first good pitch I see---I am going to be the best hitter I can be in this at bat
All of the 6 pages of gibberish and BS mean nothing--- pick up you bat--step into the batters box and mash son--- hit the first good pitch you see
Why do we try to make it so freaking complicated !!!!
You make it complicated because players will naturally use their hands and arms to power the bat.......This is pot luck technique, at best..... 
Can't count the number of times I've heard scouts, coaches, players, instructors etc etc say this very thing in evaluations of hitters>
HE'S ALL ARMS IN HIS SWING WITH NO LOWERBODY MECHANICS
Once again, your right BD. peace, Shep
HE'S ALL ARMS IN HIS SWING WITH NO LOWERBODY MECHANICS
Once again, your right BD. peace, Shep
It would behoove any coach to not only develope a standard set of terminology but also to be able to demonstrate what they mean when they say it. InfoPimp isn't totally wrong in his assessment of is what you say what you mean. (Richard, I am commenting on what I percieve you meant. I understand that you'd never want me to do so. If I'm incorrect, I'm sure you will correct this.)
Bluedog and I have shared opinions on hitting via this open forum and pms. In doing so, I really believe that I can imagine what he is saying when he describes what he wants. I wish more of you truly were able to communicate with him in this way. I believe many take his remarks personal when what he is really doing is a type of Socratic Method asking/prompting/proding you to think about what you stated. When I accepted his comments in that manner, I opened up to his viewpoint and then could compare and contrast what we both believed. Having said this, I wish I were able to have my child take a lesson or two from Bluedog. I think we are very similar in what we believe and I would wish that my child were able to take a few lessons from someone so passionate about hitting.
One last comment on the true topic of this thread. If you ask any kid to step into the batters box without tried and true, TELL THEM, SHOW THEM, LET THEM, followed up by hours of proper repetition then you are doing a disservice to that player. Mental problems when a player enters the box, in my opinion, can be greatly diminished by proper preparation. JMHO!
Bluedog and I have shared opinions on hitting via this open forum and pms. In doing so, I really believe that I can imagine what he is saying when he describes what he wants. I wish more of you truly were able to communicate with him in this way. I believe many take his remarks personal when what he is really doing is a type of Socratic Method asking/prompting/proding you to think about what you stated. When I accepted his comments in that manner, I opened up to his viewpoint and then could compare and contrast what we both believed. Having said this, I wish I were able to have my child take a lesson or two from Bluedog. I think we are very similar in what we believe and I would wish that my child were able to take a few lessons from someone so passionate about hitting.
One last comment on the true topic of this thread. If you ask any kid to step into the batters box without tried and true, TELL THEM, SHOW THEM, LET THEM, followed up by hours of proper repetition then you are doing a disservice to that player. Mental problems when a player enters the box, in my opinion, can be greatly diminished by proper preparation. JMHO!
And, I have very much enjoyed and appreciated discussing hitting with CoachB25.....He has contributed much.....
BLUE
you talking to me---if so address me when you do so I know
you talking to me---if so address me when you do so I know
TRhit, you're not gonna get me thrown off of here.....When I leave, it will be of my own accord...... 
I appreciate the way that Info. so eloquently reinforced my thoughts exactly. As he said, Ichiro, McGwire, Bonds, and Pujols do many of the same things (actually he said exactly). Yet, if you asked them their approach to hitting they would probably all be slightly different. That reinforces the belief that all hitters do not take that same approach, even though they achieve similar results. Pujols and Bonds have different swings, both have good use of the body. As for thinking in the box, as Bluedog has probably learned in his research of how the brain learns(we studied this as a district last year and it is very fascinating), when you step into the box you should be thinking about the situation and the pitch but not about the swing mechanics. The swing needs to be a reaction to what the body has learned, if brain is trying to sequence events in the box, you will swing after the ball hits the mitt or at a curve in the dirt. A pre-pitch small reinforcer such as "let the ball get in on you" or "keep the hands in" should be about the extent of it as far as thinking about mechanics in the box.
quote:Mental problems when a player enters the box, in my opinion, can be greatly diminished by proper preparation. JMHO!
Which addresses what I believe to be so.....The mental aspect of hitting is greatly exagerrated by most coaches.......
Hsballcoach, when you step in the batter's box, you should be thinking about nothing.....There are no exceptions to nothing....Nothing is just that, nothing.....
This is one hysterical psychological game.
No matter what anyone says, they are wrong because there is greater minutia that can be spoken about.
The game seems to work when the scolded party seeks approval and continues making suggestions until they get a pat on the head.
The one constant that I see is that the terminology that would be constant has yet to be developed.
But then again, that would end the game.
No matter what anyone says, they are wrong because there is greater minutia that can be spoken about.
The game seems to work when the scolded party seeks approval and continues making suggestions until they get a pat on the head.
The one constant that I see is that the terminology that would be constant has yet to be developed.
But then again, that would end the game.
The fact is, many say things that have double meanings.....
I say, say what you mean and mean what you say....Then, and only then, have you voiced your true opinion....
For instance, you cannot clear your mind, yet think about the count and situation.......It's one or the other....
Has nothing to with scolding.....That's a word you came up with, Bobo.....Again, say what you mean and mean what you say.......How else will anyone ever know what your hitting beliefs really are?.......
I say, say what you mean and mean what you say....Then, and only then, have you voiced your true opinion....
For instance, you cannot clear your mind, yet think about the count and situation.......It's one or the other....
Has nothing to with scolding.....That's a word you came up with, Bobo.....Again, say what you mean and mean what you say.......How else will anyone ever know what your hitting beliefs really are?.......
We have now gone full circle--as I said good hitters dont think they react -- same as having a clear mind
Bluedog, I understand the idea of clearing the mind while in the box. But, by the same token, if you are facing a good pitcher you had better have some idea what you are doing there. I do want my hitters to know if a pitcher has a pattern to his pitches. He had better think about the fact that a certain pitcher throw a curve or change every time he gets ahead so that he can get his best swing. He should know what a guy likes to throw and when. Once the pitcher begins to move, then he needs to relax and react with that knowledge.
