Michael Phelps

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Pot is widely considered a "gateway" drug, though there is really no scientific evidence, there is certainly anecdotal evidence. Along that same vein, booze is also a "gateway" drug. Most everyone I ever knew who smoked pot, drank a beer or some other alcoholic beverage before smoking pot. That anecdotal evidence says that booze is a "gateway" drug as well. Not everyone who smokes pot or drinks goes on to other drugs. There is some generalization here. The reality is that booze is legal so it is accepted and not widely considered to be a "gateway" drug. There are many alcoholics who have never tried another drug.

All very true. Gateway doesn't mean 100% by any stretch. But you can hear acoholics or drug addicts talk and they all speak to the need for more buzz...which leads to more/stronger stuff. Some try it once, and never do it again. Some slide a long hard fall. If you hear Josh Hamilton speak, he went through A to Z step by step but all steps very fast. The only way to be safe is to not take that first step...because stopping gets progressively harder.

When I speak to various groups, such as the Boys and Girls Clubs, some teenagers will tell you that they don't use drugs, they just smoke marijuana. Many kids don't see marijuana as a drug and it's getting them locked up faster than anything. That's the irony of it.

Thanks, TR.

I didn't mean to suggest that you sought to stand out from the crowd in that manner. It is outstanding that you didn't succumb to the temptations that must have been all around.

Not condoning it for my kid, but Phelps is an adult and he can do what he wants with his life.

Not for nothing, but, I've met some overbearing, or overindulging parents that have caused more damage to their kids than smoking pot ever could.

Bad parenting may be the #1 reason kids get high in the first place.

The media is making a big deal over nothing.

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Think about this--- this kid has been under lock and key ( swimming practice et al) every day every year since he was a pre teen---he is now loose and free to do what he wants

I don't doubt this for a second, as to the reason, all you have to do is look at Josh Hamilton. The problem is, it is still against the law. He has hurt himself and those that looked up to him, kind of like Britney Spears and Michael Vick did. Most of us aren't under that type of microscope until we become parents. They have received many perks from being at the top of their chosen profession and with that comes certain responsibilities. They are held to a higher standard and they know that before they decide to put theirselves in the limelight.

It really doesn't matter if we think smoking pot is okay or not, it doesn't matter if we think driving drunk is okay or not. What matters, is that they are against the law and should be, IMO, because they put people's lives in danger. Just as important to the individual charged with these crimes, is the fact that they carry a stigma which will stay with that person for years.

We, as responsible adults, should be conveying that message to our children and the ones that read this message board, IMO.

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We, as responsible adults, should be conveying that message to our children and the ones that read this message board , IMO.

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Not for nothing, but, I've met some overbearing, or overindulging parents that have caused more damage to their kids than smoking pot ever could.

I think people need to wise up when it comes to their kids. They will make mistakes and if all you do is throttle their necks as someone posted, the next time you might not know. They have to make mistakes, hopefully not big ones, they have to know we will love them when they do. They have to grow up and that is sometimes painful.But as parents those are teachable moments also.
I think you would be surprise at what every HS kid can get at his own school in the way of serious drugs.It is a scary thing,and thats why be open with your kids and talk to them not just about NO NO NO dont do it, really talk to them. Just threatning them and telling them how bad it is is not enough. Because their peers are telling them its ok. You have to combat that and you cant do it just by trying to scare them out of it.

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All very true. Gateway doesn't mean 100% by any stretch. But you can hear acoholics or drug addicts talk and they all speak to the need for more buzz...which leads to more/stronger stuff. Some try it once, and never do it again. Some slide a long hard fall. If you hear Josh Hamilton speak, he went through A to Z step by step but all steps very fast. The only way to be safe is to not take that first step...because stopping gets progressively harder.

Just say no didn't work for Nancy Reagan or the rest of the country. Education works. I am quite involved in working with Addicts/Alcoholics. I have never heard one talk about the need for a greater buzz. Inevitably it is about drowning pain. You can do that with drugs, alcohol, gambling, ***, or any number of ways. Your statement above is a commonly held belief. It is a generalization that is widely accepted. Through my experience it just is not the case. The abuse itself is about masking pain. What ever the abuse might be. Josh Hamilton talks about that also. Listen closely and you will see. Very few abusers will be "just overwhelmed" by the substance. I would actually say that people "just got caught up" is a minority. That is my experience.

I certainly understand your point of view. It is very prevalent and widely held by people who don't work in the field. It is also very understandable why people hold the view. On the face of it it makes sense. From experience I know that these people are in pain. My experience is that pain causes the abuse not the abuse causing the pain.

Thank you, and I am not being critical of your point view. Just giving a different one.

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Originally posted by fillsfan:
I don't think anyone wants there 16-20 year child smoking pot. We don't want them drinking either. Will some, of course. Would I just blow it off as no big deal if my son did? No, I would discuss the problems both legally and personally that would arise if he were arrested for it. Maybe not as calmly as I'm writing this though.

The real world is that many kids that age will try it regardless what Phelps or any other high profile person does. IMO if my son trys pot because Michael Phelps is in the paper taking a hit from a bong, I didn't do a very good job raising him. I really think this role model thing (with athletes, politicians, movie stars, et al) is way over blown as it applies to kids who have stable, caring parents and families. I know many don't but, it seems, people on this site are stable and caring or we wouldn't be here.

The most important role models are in the home! This is apparent to me everytime my son drives with his permit and does something he has seen me do. He thinks it's OK for him to the same things I do. Even though I've been driving for 35 years and he's had a permit for 6 months. It's funny what brings things into focus for us but that has for me. Now I don't drive with my leg and I notice my speed more.

If he has noticed and copies my driving habits he probably noticed ever other bad and good trait I have. Hopefully the few good will influence him more than the many bad ones. I'm pretty sure my habits and actions have influenced him more than what Michael Phelps or Plaxico Burress does.

Boy isn't he lucky!!

fillsfan,

The danger, is that the more "stable and caring" people say, "it's no big deal" to break the law, just because WE think it's a bad or dumb law the more the "stable and caring" children will pick and chose what laws they are going to obey. They watch what we do and listen to what we say, it is our responsibility to set an example for them.

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I have never heard one talk about the need for a greater buzz. Inevitably it is about drowning pain.

Good point on the pain. I've heard Hamilton first hand. He's mentioned buzz and pain in the same breath. To say buzz has nothing to do with it wouldn't be accurate. I would agree that pain contributes more to it than buzz. Maybe buzz opens the door to medicating the pain...then pain takes over.

Legislation is a long topic to itself. Don't really care to get into that.

Gee - a lot of moral relativism (Obama, Bush and Clinton did it, so what's the big deal)

Drug use is common in his age group as is drinking. So, his use doesn't really prove anything about him other than that he is normal. But is normal good? None of us wants our kids to be normal - instead they aspire to be great!

From a contractual standpoint, Phelps has violated his contracts, and thus they should be cancelled. He was not mature enough to keep an agreement or the responsibility that went with it.

It also is an indication that he thinks his "responsibilities" as a role model for products and our country (USA gold medal winner) are just a "game" - which is a character flaw.

Politicians have to resign as governors, mayors, and even Presidents when they get caught doing what "everyone" does - using prostitutes, having affairs,selling offices and favors, lying about ***, cheating on taxes, and spying on political opponents. We aspire to have our leaders be different in this country, which is the essence of why our country is different and better than others.

But, we as Americans are also quick to forgive and forget(look at how George Foreman recovered). Let Phelps learn from it and it will be a success story.

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:


fillsfan,

The danger, is that the more "stable and caring" people say, "it's no big deal" to break the law, just because WE think it's a bad or dumb law the more the "stable and caring" children will pick and chose what laws they are going to obey. They watch what we do and listen to what we say, it is our responsibility to set an example for them.

power,

I'm not saying that I would tell my son "it's not a big deal" and I don't care if the law is dumb or not, it's the law and breaking the law has consequences. It is a big deal if a kid gets caught smoking pot or drinking, and the consequences are severe. That would be a big part of the conversation. In our kids circumstances it could derail their dreams of playing baseball at the next level.

Kids are going to "pick and choose" the laws they a obey or disobey anyway. That's part of maturing and learning how to make the right decisions. It's my job to convey to him the possible consequences of his decisions. Good, bad and long lasting consequences.

My main point is stuff happens and kids will make bad decisions. It's been that way forever and it's not going to change. Part of life. We have to minimize the bad decision making and the best way IMO is by talking about things openly and honestly.

power, your right we do have to set an example, but the problem is we are also human and chances are we made some the same bad decisions they might make. Hopefully I've learned from my mistakes and can help him before he makes the next one.

Does anyone know exactly why marijiuana was made illegal?

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Originally posted by coach2709:
Does anyone know exactly why marijiuana was made illegal?

I would think because it impares motor function and judgement which is why driving drunk is against the law. Thing is, there is no breathalyzer for pot yet.

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power, your right we do have to set an example, but the problem is we are also human and chances are we made some the same bad decisions they might make. Hopefully I've learned from my mistakes and can help him before he makes the next one.

I agree. I just don't want a return to the 70s. The reason drug use became so widespread, was that it became acceptable in the mainstream. When kids see and hear comedians talking about doing it and people doing it in movies and tv shows it becomes acceptable. I know the devastating affects this drug had on many athletes when I was growing up. It pretty much ruined my last three years of high school as far as fielding a competitve team. It wasn't because we didn't have great athletes either. I just don't want to see this generation go through the same pitfalls as we did in mine. The more we say, "it's no big deal" on this board as adults, the more kids will think it's okay.

So, if a 20 year old athelete were photographed drinking a beer, would it cause so much attention? I hardly think so, though it is as illegal as pot smoking. IMO we are too quick to try to bring down those that are on a pedestal. To me the big point is that unlike adults Roger Clements, Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, etc., the YOUNG man fessed up and apologized instead of trying to get away with it because he was a celeb above the law. Can't we focus on that???

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The abuse itself is about masking pain.

Most addictions of any kind are about masking some sort of deeper rooted problems. I am no way saying I want my kids to drink and or smoke pot I am saying as earlier just do not think that by lecturing them by just saying do not do it will work.And again i will say kids , even good kids fumble and make mistakes. And yes they can lose their right to play baseball, but in the long run you want your kids to say NO becasue they do not want it, no because of their own convictions, once they begin to have their own convictions they can withstand the peer pressure.
I hope parents understand the amt. of peer pressure kids get in HS.The other problem is many parents let thier kids partake in these activities so your up against that wall as well.
I personaly do not think Phelps should lose anything from this,I respect those who think he should.I think he is a young man who has not had much time to even be a kid and he made a mistake, I do not hold him in the same light with Clinton and his morals. Entirely two diff. types of people IMHO>

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:

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Originally posted by coach2709:
Does anyone know exactly why marijiuana was made illegal?

I would think because it impares motor function and judgement which is why driving drunk is against the law. Thing is, there is no breathalyzer for pot yet.

Obviously these are all on different scales of social value, but....

When womens suffrage laws were passed, older women went to their graves with a smile.

When civil rights laws were passed older blacks went to their graves with a smile.

If marijuana is ever legalized I can only imagine the "shet eatin grins" on the faces of many from my generation when they meet their maker.

rz1, those are on such different scales they don't even belong in the same reply. Smoking pot is not a civil right. Good Lord. You should live in CA or Mass.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
rz1, those are on such different scales they don't even belong in the same reply. Smoking pot is not a civil right. Good Lord. You should live in CA or Mass.

Trust me tx-husker, Madison Wi wrote the book on liberalism and then taught CA and MA how to apply it.

I qualified the statement that there was no comparison but I will not turn my head to a statement society has made for the last 40+ years. We do not learn true history by pretending it did not exist or putting on the back burner. You can out right discuss it, or describe it in humor, but you can't ignore it, or sweep it under the carpet. That's how misconception and half truths are born. IMHO

btw- I am the "kick dog" of liberal Madison.

I am the most anti-pot-smoking parent when it comes to my child HOWEVER, I know that a pot-smoking episode does not make one an addict. Phelps was just trying what our own children probably are also trying without the public scrutiny.

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I am the "kick dog" of liberal Madison

You're a good man, rz1. If you take off the glasses, they might not kick you so much.

I think many folks, maybe some on this site, think that may be me.

I was going to put up the pre-op facelift picture but I thought that wasn't fair. Mouth must have gotten washed out with soap?!

Now I know how he eats all of that food. 10,000 calorie intake on a daily basis needs a little help.

At the Federal level, criminalization of marijuana was largely the work of a guy named Harry J. Anslinger.

Does anyone know exactly why marijiuana was made illegal?


i have been watching some documentery's on the history channel about drug's. i can't say this is all true ,but it was the history channell.

i just deleted a long post with the answer to this question. maybe you can google drug's on the history channel. you'd be amazed, i was.

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It is just harder now because of cell phone cameras and 12 megapixel cameras that are smaller than a cigarette pack. One must be more careful and use good judgment.

I took my son to a discussion on recruiting. After discussing pictures on MySpace, the coach pulled out his cell phone, clicked off a picture and said, "This thing can ruin your dreams. You cannot afford to put yourself in a position where one picture can affect your future. Not everyone likes you. Some may be jealous. Someone may want to take you down. You have to consider your conduct at all times."

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Who makes Phelps and others the idols for our kids to worship?

Who says athletes have to be role models? My son's favorite athletes have never been his role models. He just likes the way they play. When he was little he had personal exposure to a local professional athlete being a stud athlete on the court and a horse's behind off the court. He still liked watching him play. I used to tell my players to play as hard as Dennis Rodman. Just don't act like him. I'd like to think I've been my son's role model in terms of conduct. And I've screwed up at times.

I posted the link last night because I was curious as to what others thought on his behavior.
I do agree that we all have a life of our own, and what you do in your "off" time is your business. Unlike MLB, he is not accountable for what he does when not in competition. He also is not employed by the IOC so they can't prevent him from further competition unless he tests negative in competition. They would do more harm than good to the sport if they banned him.
He will be hurt financially. Those who are paying him millions for his face to be on their product so that you and I will buy it will think twice, especially where food intake is concerned, after all athletes are suppose to let us think that they are what they eat.
He manned up and that was good and I am sure he was advised to do so. Some people have said in reality he has only hurt himself. But has he? According to my understanding kids are signing up for swimming lessons in droves, all due to Michael Phelps. Kids look up to him and that's my concern. I don't care if he loses endorsements, that's his problem, I only care about the impact made on today's youth, who more than ever need to look up to people who show good judgement. He IS a role model for many. Yes I agree that kids do all sorts of things, I was a kid and my kids were kids but I or they are not famous. They also know and understand that everyone and their mother has a camara on them these days (cell phone).

No matter what, IMO once you put your face on a Wheaties Box you now belong to an elite group of individuals and yes, I do expect them to be and act differently.

Regardless of how I feel about partaking in recreational or gateway drugs, my opinion is DO IT AT HOME. I actually think the headline fit, he is a big DOPE. Do what you want, but watch where you do it. I agree with Fungo, he eventually will fade into oblivian.

Just a story, for those that argue that smoking weed is ok and doesn't lead to other drugs, it may not be ok for everyone. My 19 year old nephew began smoking weed when he was 15. Already a poor student with ADD, this only made things worse, he wouldn't go to school, he enjoyed being high 100% of the time. He couldn't even get a job slinging burgers at McDonalds or Burger King because they test for drugs and he refused rehab. He got caught stealing, small stuff, then got caught stealing big stuff, and even got thrown out of the house for growing it because he couldn't afford to buy it. He has spent time in juvenile detention and in jail. So for some, the recreational drug that makes you feel good can become a habit and one never knows how it will or will not affect an individual. He also drinks heavily and has been since early teens. He got away with lots of stuff because my sister in law said it was part of growing up, not that stuff.

Ok so we freak when people get behind the wheel drunk, did you ever get behind the wheel stoned?

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Originally posted by Fungo:
I would venture to say there's a very good chance that Michael Phelps will admit that this incident of pot smoking had a negative impact and may actually eliminate him from a successful career. Not it won't, and shouldn't, strip him of his medals, but I suspect it will greatly impact his ability to get endorsements. A lot depends on how the media spins it.

I'm on the other side, and while Phelps has made a potentially career threatening "error in judgment", he has the financial resources for an agency to spin this into a non-issue. On a better note, and if he is sincerely remorseful, dedicated to spreading a word, he could end up as a "I made a mistake, forgive me" poster boy. Brett Favre did with his vicodin issues. Does anyone remember that? If you don't...it worked

Did it hurt him in the big life long picture- sure did

Kiss of death - doubt it

Learning experience- hope so

I think it will help Phelps with endorsements.
Twinkies, Dominos, sour cream and onion chips. Pink Floyd, laser lights and black lights.

Lots of good endorsements.

Another role model athlete bites the dust...

Add him to a long list.

Phelps avoids hot water with sponsors—for now

Phelps avoids hot water with sponsors—for now

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Thing is, there is no breathalyzer for pot yet.

That may very well be true power, but there is a tried and true field test to determine if someone has been whiffing the weed...



... if a quick scan of their lips reveals a cheesy orange Cheetos© hue coupled with their inability to answer even simple questions like "where is your left shoe?" or "how come your pocket is full of grape jelly?" it is probable that the person is under the influence.

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Kiss of death - doubt it

Learning experience- hope so

I couldn't agree more. This story will not survive another news cycle, largely because he owned up quickly. Maybe even more because the Olympics are over, and competitive swimming doesn't make news without its premier event. Phelps completed thousands of clean laps during of his Olympic run and earned a lot of gold, but because he didn't stay dirt-free on dry land he gets to wear some very public mud- for just a little while. Unless he pees in the pool this will soon be forgotten.

Back in the mid-late 70's, Ohio University was on the cover of High Times Magazine. I was in Athens, Ohio in college at the time.

Go to that website now, read the forums, and blogs, and get an idea of college campus life 30 years later.

Right or wrong isn't the question. Some partake. Some partake daily, as in lifestyle, and some don't.

What else is new?

With Phelps' lung capacity, he could probably get pretty stoned on one hit..