A drafted player does not have to sign. A free agent can negotiate with all 30 teams.
And yes there are many who are waitingin the wings for the job and that is why it is what it is.
Our society has made a political choice: employers, absent specific circumstances, must pay a minimum wage.
Period, end of story.
Employers occasionally try to circumvent the law (recent intern wages cases are examples). (And, in those recent intern cases, there were many potential "interns" lined up to take the place of those who dared to say no to working for free/below minimum wage.)
I am looking forward to baseball trying to squeeze itself into the "seasonal" exception. Can't wait to hear them explain how a "seasonal" business can drug test its employees months after the season ends, make players head to mini-camps, instructional ball (no wages, just room, some board, and a per diem), etc., and still be seasonal.
The amount we're talking about is not great: assume a team has six U.S. based minor league teams. Assume each team has 35 players (actually from full season A on, rosters are 25). Assume that AAA is paying more then minimum wage, and is therefore paying appropriate wages. But also assume that there are 35 more players in extended spring. Thus, there are roughly 210 players who need to be paid minimum wage. Assume that the players work 60 hours per week (bus rides, etc). That's 20 overtime hours. For ease of math assume $8/hr wage ($12/hr overtime). So, each week should bring in ($8 x 40) + ($12 x $20)= $560/wk. Assume a season of work lasts from March 1 until September 2 (roughly 27 weeks). A season's pay is 27 x $560= $15120. The player is currently receiving roughly $6600. So, roughly $8500 shortfall. $8500 x 210 players = $1,785,000 per team. Thirty teams x $1,785,000 = $53,550,000. About .6% of MLB revenue.
A drop in the bucket. And, it's not as if the players will take the money and burn or bury it in the backyard. The players will plow that money right into the communities where they are based.
We, as a society, decided that a minimum wage was needed - in most jobs - not just the crappy ones no one wants.
Originally Posted by Goosegg:
The amount we're talking about is not great:
$1,785,000 per team. Thirty teams x $1,785,000 = $53,550,000. About .6% of MLB revenue.
A drop in the bucket.
11 of the 30 teams lose money. Are you going to fork over their $1.7 mil each? How big is your bucket? Maybe Mother Jones can pay it.
Originally Posted by Goosegg:
Our society has made a political choice: employers, absent specific circumstances, must pay a minimum wage.
Period, end of story.
If only. There are quite a few folks in congress who would happily vote to repeal the minimum wage laws.
They "lose" money - according to them; yet franchises are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Accountants can do wonders.
I'm also not going to cut you a check for social security - but that has nothing to do with whether you are legally entitled to that money.
I was unaware of the "you must make a profit" exception to the minimum wage laws.
Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:
Originally Posted by Goosegg:
The amount we're talking about is not great:
$1,785,000 per team. Thirty teams x $1,785,000 = $53,550,000. About .6% of MLB revenue.
A drop in the bucket.
11 of the 30 teams lose money. Are you going to fork over their $1.7 mil each? How big is your bucket? Maybe Mother Jones can pay it.
I'd like to know what is included in the revenue numbers for this list. I seriously doubt the Yankees are losing $9 million a year. Those numbers must not include TV or merchandising money. There is no way the Yankees are worth $2.5 billion when they are losing money every year. And the Dodgers losing almost $81 million a year and they are still worth $2 billion??? I have a feeling if you add in all money (not just operational money) these numbers will look a lot different.
Originally Posted by TPM:
A drafted player does not have to sign. A free agent can negotiate with all 30 teams.
This really doesn't address the issue. If you think it does, please explain.
And yes there are many who are waitingin the wings for the job and that is why it is what it is.
Hmmmm??? OK, but I wonder just how many equally qualified for the job are waiting in the wings?
So, looking beyond the obvious, there's more to it than including those who don't have the skills or talent the industry looks for. huh?
If my accounting firm along with other accounting firms could create an "accounting graduate draft" where accounting graduates had to work 4 seasons for us before they are eligible to change firms, we'd could save a lot of money with really low pay and we wouldn't have to pay them to get training during the off season
However accountants don't have a draft and accounting firms can't force them to sign 4 year conrtacts,, so accounting firms have to be competitive with pay starting the first day,
MLB doesn't have to worry about MiLB players leaving for other teams, so they can pay whatever they want as the player has very little leverage. Do away with the draft and standard minor contract tying players to teams and the pay will increase substantially. Yes there are lots of players willing to take the place of any MiLB player for free or less, however most don't have the skill to be competitive at that level.,
..
One thing I do have to say not all teams are created equal.
So before you sign on the dotted line do your homework...just like you did when your son accepted an offer to play at college.
So before you sign on the dotted line do your homework...just like you did when your son accepted an offer to play at college.
I know the one thing I see written a lot is there are many waiting to take their places? Really? I mean give the players that are there some credit they were chosen because someone scouted them and believed they had skills.
Not to be insulting to anyone but the general public really has no idea about minor league baseball.
Fan, you don't think there are thousands of HS and college players that didn't get drafted that would be happy to sign to have the chance to make it to the MLB? There are A LOT of very good ball players out there willing to take a chance that didn't get drafted. I'm not talking about general population people. I'm talking about good HS players and college seniors that didn't get drafted for some reason.
There are around 1280 players drafted. There are around 13,500 college seniors. Maybe not all of them want to play baseball for a living, but I'm sure there is a pretty big pool of players who would be willing to take that chance.
There are around 1280 players drafted. There are around 13,500 college seniors. Maybe not all of them want to play baseball for a living, but I'm sure there is a pretty big pool of players who would be willing to take that chance.
I am going with fanofgame on this one. Most people have no clue about milb.
TPM, you obviously know a lot more about the MiLB game than most. But don't you think that the pool of college seniors could, and would if they had the opportunity, fill a good number of those late draft rounds? You've said yourself that there will always be guys willing to fill in if some guys decided to not to sign because of the money.
Stop it bballman you're giving me flashbacks of 1995 and the "Replacement Players". Gosh, that was awful.
I am not a scout but I will give my opinion.
A college senior unless one of the top in the country would be signing for very little money. Chances are he would be one of the oldest on his team.
Where do you think at what level he would begin his career?
A college senior unless one of the top in the country would be signing for very little money. Chances are he would be one of the oldest on his team.
Where do you think at what level he would begin his career?
Originally Posted by JCG:
Stop it bballman you're giving me flashbacks of 1995 and the "Replacement Players". Gosh, that was awful.
Haha. I loved that movie!!
Originally Posted by TPM:
I am not a scout but I will give my opinion.
A college senior unless one of the top in the country would be signing for very little money. Chances are he would be one of the oldest on his team.
Where do you think at what level he would begin his career?
A college senior unless one of the top in the country would be signing for very little money. Chances are he would be one of the oldest on his team.
Where do you think at what level he would begin his career?
Aren't ALL the lower round draft choices signed for very little money? And it doesn't have to be college seniors. I was just using that group as an example of a big pool of players that are not part of the "general population" fan was talking about. Add in the HS seniors and college juniors to the mix and I think if everyone in the last 10+ rounds of bye draft decided not to sign, there would be enough guys to fill those spots. Would every one of those guys be as good as the ones that were actually drafted? Probably not. But there also may be some guys in there that wind up turning out better than the guys who were originally selected and didn't sign.
I'm just agreeing with the point that you and PG and others have made that there are plenty of guys waiting in the wings to take the spots of guys if they decide not to sign because they don't like the money. And I'm saying that they aren't just kids out of the "general population". A lot of them are pretty good ball players.
I am not really understanding your point.
People complaining about milb pay. What does that have to do with college seniors?
You didnt answer my question. Where do you think those seniors will be placed?
People complaining about milb pay. What does that have to do with college seniors?
You didnt answer my question. Where do you think those seniors will be placed?
First of all, my point is that maybe MiLB players are not paid that much because of the over abundance of players that are willing to take their spot (ie a big labor force).
As far as where they'd be placed - I suppose they'd be placed at the same level as anyone else in that draft spot would be placed. I'm guessing rookie ball or low A. I really don't know the system well enough to say for sure. Not sure why they would be placed anywhere other than where their counterpart would have been placed if they'd signed.
As I said in a previous post, I'm sort of conflicted about the whole thing. Free market vs some kind of legislated or unionized minimum wage scenario. So, in weighing the options I sort of thought out loud that maybe wages are so low because of the large pool of players willing to take that spot, therefore they really are getting paid what the market will allow. Hope that makes more sense to you.
As far as where they'd be placed - I suppose they'd be placed at the same level as anyone else in that draft spot would be placed. I'm guessing rookie ball or low A. I really don't know the system well enough to say for sure. Not sure why they would be placed anywhere other than where their counterpart would have been placed if they'd signed.
As I said in a previous post, I'm sort of conflicted about the whole thing. Free market vs some kind of legislated or unionized minimum wage scenario. So, in weighing the options I sort of thought out loud that maybe wages are so low because of the large pool of players willing to take that spot, therefore they really are getting paid what the market will allow. Hope that makes more sense to you.
Truman ,
Free agents can sign with any team that is interested and usually that is the one paying them the bigger bonus and where they will be placed. Free agents include those not drafted as well as milb players released or out of contract.
Tell me you dont get that?
My entire point is that poverty in milb isnt as bad as it sounds.
Free agents can sign with any team that is interested and usually that is the one paying them the bigger bonus and where they will be placed. Free agents include those not drafted as well as milb players released or out of contract.
Tell me you dont get that?
My entire point is that poverty in milb isnt as bad as it sounds.