MLB Contracts

Branching off of the Murray situation. Is the way MLB contracts are structured too long? Meaning are the minor league contracts + the 6 years before unrestricted free agency too much or is it the right length? If you come out of college at 21, play in the minors for 3 years, play in the bigs for 6. Obviously you have the arbitration years, but you aren't really getting a true contract until 30ish. 

I don't think the MLB needs to change a thing. They have a system and it works. But I think it should either be 6 years from the time you sign or 4 from the time you get to the MLB level. Waiting 10 years to get your first contract is a very long time. Unless you're coming out of high school, you are at a significant disadvantage on the market as well. I don't think losing Murray is a problem at all, but I do think the situation exposed MLB a little bit. Any chance this changes? 

Original Post

A quick google search states the average MLB career is 5.6 years. Which means once a guy actually makes the show, they are making league minimum for the first three years, then are eligible for arbitration if they aren’t under contract for the next season. I think this heavily favors ownership still.

100% guaranteed contracts...so they need to wait a few years.  And if you're a top draft pick, you're paid millions to wait and play.  Not to mention guys getting paid $20M during their arbitration years.  All of which is funded by us, the consumer.  They're doing just fine.

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

CTbballDad posted:

100% guaranteed contracts...so they need to wait a few years.  And if you're a top draft pick, you're paid millions to wait and play.  Not to mention guys getting paid $20M during their arbitration years.  All of which is funded by us, the consumer.  They're doing just fine.

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

Well, yeah.  If you are from the U.S.

One guy got $20M in arbitration.  Only a couple top draft picks each year get millions. Agree with the minor leaguers, except $25k is what low/mid minor leaguers make in 2 or 3 years.

It favors ownership. And even more so as time passes by.  Lack of competence and foresight by the union.  Foolish by management to allow the union to be so stupid. The correction will be driven by a strike.

Go44dad posted:
CTbballDad posted:

100% guaranteed contracts...so they need to wait a few years.  And if you're a top draft pick, you're paid millions to wait and play.  Not to mention guys getting paid $20M during their arbitration years.  All of which is funded by us, the consumer.  They're doing just fine.

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

Well, yeah.  If you are from the U.S.

One guy got $20M in arbitration.  Only a couple top draft picks each year get millions. Agree with the minor leaguers, except $25k is what low/mid minor leaguers make in 2 or 3 years.

It favors ownership. And even more so as time passes by.  Lack of competence and foresight by the union.  Foolish by management to allow the union to be so stupid. The correction will be driven by a strike.

I have a similar thought process. The CBA is in place for three more full years. I can't see them maintaining the 6 year rookie contracts, especially when so many of the stars in baseball are making the league min. I can see them coming to terms on 4 years from MLB debut (no arbitration). The problem with giving minor leaguers shorter contracts is the fact that the wealthier teams in the league will just cherry pick the top prospects as they start developing. I just don't see it happening given how long it takes the players to develop. 

PABaseball posted:
... The problem with giving minor leaguers shorter contracts is the fact that the wealthier teams in the league will just cherry pick the top prospects as they start developing. I just don't see it happening given how long it takes the players to develop. 

I agree that player development in MiLB/MLB is a lengthy process for most but, to the point of your discussion,  it is far too often forced to be longer in the interest of maintaining player and salary control - a common practice that we see from every team every Spring, particularly when players are knocking on the MLB door.

CTbballDad posted:

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

^^THIS^^

Problem is the union doesn't represent minor leaguers and actually minor leaguers are competition for the union members who try to take their job away.

The union has no reason to support minor leaguers albeit of course every union member used to be a minor leaguer.

Basically the minors are a shark tank you have to swim through to get to the promised land and anyone in that land just wants to keep his privilege and thinks "I went through this so the young guys should too". This is egoistical of course but it is like most humans work.

Dominik85 posted:

Problem is the union doesn't represent minor leaguers and actually minor leaguers are competition for the union members who try to take their job away.

The union has no reason to support minor leaguers albeit of course every union member used to be a minor leaguer.

Basically the minors are a shark tank you have to swim through to get to the promised land and anyone in that land just wants to keep his privilege and thinks "I went through this so the young guys should too". This is egoistical of course but it is like most humans workn

I am surmising (because I have no direct knowledge) that the lack of representation extends into the first 3ish years of MLB service b/c those guys are junior and go along with union leadership.  They don't have a lot of say in the union negotiating platform.

Go44dad posted:
Dominik85 posted:

Problem is the union doesn't represent minor leaguers and actually minor leaguers are competition for the union members who try to take their job away.

The union has no reason to support minor leaguers albeit of course every union member used to be a minor leaguer.

Basically the minors are a shark tank you have to swim through to get to the promised land and anyone in that land just wants to keep his privilege and thinks "I went through this so the young guys should too". This is egoistical of course but it is like most humans workn

I am surmising (because I have no direct knowledge) that the lack of representation extends into the first 3ish years of MLB service b/c those guys are junior and go along with union leadership.  They don't have a lot of say in the union negotiating platform.

And even the first year mlb players won't be super invested in rooting for higher minimum wages because a new cba is only every 5 years so a first year  player likely is out of that system when the next cba kicks in.

The first year player will say "why fight for a min wage that kicks in in 4 years when it doesn't affect me anymore?"

CTbballDad posted:

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

CTbballDad, please tell me where this number came from???  LOL  

Milb teams only pay salaries for the 5 months they play (April-August) , and nothing for spring training.   My calculations come to under ~$6k for my son.  For the year.  (Ok, he got reimbursed for gas to get home since they didn't have to pay for a plane ticket.)  He is hoping to get a ~$50 per month raise this coming year.  (That is $250 total before taxes, folks).

He is not complaining at all and luckily lives a low-maintenance lifestyle.  He is making it work.  Some of the foreign guys even send money "home".

Higher wages in Milb are usually when a player comes down from another level, esp MLB players. 

He is living the dream....it just doesn't pay well  (right now)

keewart posted:
CTbballDad posted:

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

CTbballDad, please tell me where this number came from???  LOL  

Milb teams only pay salaries for the 5 months they play (April-August) , and nothing for spring training.   My calculations come to under ~$6k for my son.  For the year.  (Ok, he got reimbursed for gas to get home since they didn't have to pay for a plane ticket.)  He is hoping to get a ~$50 per month raise this coming year.  (That is $250 total before taxes, folks).

He is not complaining at all and luckily lives a low-maintenance lifestyle.  He is making it work.  Some of the foreign guys even send money "home".

Higher wages in Milb are usually when a player comes down from another level, esp MLB players. 

He is living the dream....it just doesn't pay well  (right now)

Slavery. 

CTbballDad posted:

100% guaranteed contracts...so they need to wait a few years.  And if you're a top draft pick, you're paid millions to wait and play.  Not to mention guys getting paid $20M during their arbitration years.  All of which is funded by us, the consumer.  They're doing just fine.

The players aren't the only ones doing fine.

mlbPayrollRevenue

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keewart posted:
CTbballDad posted:

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

CTbballDad, please tell me where this number came from???  LOL  

Milb teams only pay salaries for the 5 months they play (April-August) , and nothing for spring training.   My calculations come to under ~$6k for my son.  For the year.  (Ok, he got reimbursed for gas to get home since they didn't have to pay for a plane ticket.)  He is hoping to get a ~$50 per month raise this coming year.  (That is $250 total before taxes, folks).

He is not complaining at all and luckily lives a low-maintenance lifestyle.  He is making it work.  Some of the foreign guys even send money "home".

Higher wages in Milb are usually when a player comes down from another level, esp MLB players. 

He is living the dream....it just doesn't pay well  (right now)

Yes, I realize wages are extremely low.  The problem is, if you significantly increase the wages at the MiLB level, economics will take over.  You will see a drop of MiLB players and teams, so the league and MLB can maintain their profits.  A reduction of teams will impact small communities who generate income from having MiLB teams.  Jobs will be lost.  Heck college summer team's may ultimately be impacted, as marginal pro prospects may decide early its not worth chasing the dream, and take an internship instead.

You can tell from my response, I'm not a fan of increasing the minimum wage either, but lets not get political.

keewart posted:
CTbballDad posted:

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

CTbballDad, please tell me where this number came from???  LOL  

Milb teams only pay salaries for the 5 months they play (April-August) , and nothing for spring training.   My calculations come to under ~$6k for my son.  For the year.  (Ok, he got reimbursed for gas to get home since they didn't have to pay for a plane ticket.)  He is hoping to get a ~$50 per month raise this coming year.  (That is $250 total before taxes, folks).

He is not complaining at all and luckily lives a low-maintenance lifestyle.  He is making it work.  Some of the foreign guys even send money "home".

Higher wages in Milb are usually when a player comes down from another level, esp MLB players. 

He is living the dream....it just doesn't pay well  (right now)

Keewart, so true.  Just like to add for Spring Training it might be a team to team decision, or even specific player decision to pay for spring training.  My son attended last spring, he received a weekly stipend which included room/board, food, transportation, training center, and "misc" which can be considered to be salary and other expenses. Still paltry but it appeared to be same for all attendees, including veterans.

I don't think anyone is asking for MiLB salaries to increase an exhorbitant amount, but c'mon, $1000/month is ridiculous, especially for a guy who maybe got a $1500 or less signing bonus, which is typical for lower round graduating college seniors.  MiLB could afford to double the monthly pay, it wouldn't hurt them, and it would at least make the minors a little more livable during the 5 months that they are playing.   

PABaseball posted:
Go44dad posted:

Q: What major, unionized sport would let revenues fall from 56% to 39% in 15 years?

A: One that is incompetently run.

That is the % of revenue as payroll going down. Revenue is in the blue trending upwards. 

I understand the graph.

The problem with Milb salaries is they’re rarely adjusted for inflation. Milb salaries have only increased 70% since 1975. A dollar in 1975 is worth $4.67 now just accounting for inflation. Minimum Milb pay should be over $3,000 per month.

CTbballDad posted:
keewart posted:
CTbballDad posted:

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

CTbballDad, please tell me where this number came from???  LOL  

Milb teams only pay salaries for the 5 months they play (April-August) , and nothing for spring training.   My calculations come to under ~$6k for my son.  For the year.  (Ok, he got reimbursed for gas to get home since they didn't have to pay for a plane ticket.)  He is hoping to get a ~$50 per month raise this coming year.  (That is $250 total before taxes, folks).

He is not complaining at all and luckily lives a low-maintenance lifestyle.  He is making it work.  Some of the foreign guys even send money "home".

Higher wages in Milb are usually when a player comes down from another level, esp MLB players. 

He is living the dream....it just doesn't pay well  (right now)

Yes, I realize wages are extremely low.  The problem is, if you significantly increase the wages at the MiLB level, economics will take over.  You will see a drop of MiLB players and teams, so the league and MLB can maintain their profits.  A reduction of teams will impact small communities who generate income from having MiLB teams.  Jobs will be lost.  Heck college summer team's may ultimately be impacted, as marginal pro prospects may decide early its not worth chasing the dream, and take an internship instead.

You can tell from my response, I'm not a fan of increasing the minimum wage either, but lets not get political.

Wouldn't it be good if the minors are contracted a little? 90% of the minors players are roster fillers and organisational  depth guys anyway.

I realize some 30th round picks become good mlb players but the odds are very bad. Wouldn't it be good if those players finish the college degree and get a job rather than playing for nothing until they are 27 for a tiny chance to play mlb? 

I mean the conservative guys who are against a minor league raise always say "nobody forces them to play pro ball" so why not make the draft 20 rounds, contract some teams and pay the remaining guys a decent salary?

Also i don't buy the argument higher salary costs jobs. In Germany minimum wage was finally introduced 7-8 years ago and many warned it would cost jobs but it didn't cost any. Maybe an outrageously higy min wage (say like 20+ dollars per hour) would do that but in reality jobs who can get automated or contracted completely will be contracted anyway no matter what the wage is because if you can save 5 dollars per hour you will do that too if you can.

Maybe some scouts kids won't get signed anymore with higher wages but generally orgs will have as many minor leaguers as they think they need to produce cheap majors talent. If they decide that number is 150 instead of 200 they should try it and see if their farm is still competetive imo.

Dominik85 posted:
CTbballDad posted:
keewart posted:
CTbballDad posted:

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

CTbballDad, please tell me where this number came from???  LOL  

Milb teams only pay salaries for the 5 months they play (April-August) , and nothing for spring training.   My calculations come to under ~$6k for my son.  For the year.  (Ok, he got reimbursed for gas to get home since they didn't have to pay for a plane ticket.)  He is hoping to get a ~$50 per month raise this coming year.  (That is $250 total before taxes, folks).

He is not complaining at all and luckily lives a low-maintenance lifestyle.  He is making it work.  Some of the foreign guys even send money "home".

Higher wages in Milb are usually when a player comes down from another level, esp MLB players. 

He is living the dream....it just doesn't pay well  (right now)

Yes, I realize wages are extremely low.  The problem is, if you significantly increase the wages at the MiLB level, economics will take over.  You will see a drop of MiLB players and teams, so the league and MLB can maintain their profits.  A reduction of teams will impact small communities who generate income from having MiLB teams.  Jobs will be lost.  Heck college summer team's may ultimately be impacted, as marginal pro prospects may decide early its not worth chasing the dream, and take an internship instead.

You can tell from my response, I'm not a fan of increasing the minimum wage either, but lets not get political.

Wouldn't it be good if the minors are contracted a little? 90% of the minors players are roster fillers and organisational  depth guys anyway.

I realize some 30th round picks become good mlb players but the odds are very bad. Wouldn't it be good if those players finish the college degree and get a job rather than playing for nothing until they are 27 for a tiny chance to play mlb? 

I mean the conservative guys who are against a minor league raise always say "nobody forces them to play pro ball" so why not make the draft 20 rounds, contract some teams and pay the remaining guys a decent salary?

Also i don't buy the argument higher salary costs jobs. In Germany minimum wage was finally introduced 7-8 years ago and many warned it would cost jobs but it didn't cost any. Maybe an outrageously higy min wage (say like 20+ dollars per hour) would do that but in reality jobs who can get automated or contracted completely will be contracted anyway no matter what the wage is because if you can save 5 dollars per hour you will do that too if you can.

Maybe some scouts kids won't get signed anymore with higher wages but generally orgs will have as many minor leaguers as they think they need to produce cheap majors talent. If they decide that number is 150 instead of 200 they should try it and see if their farm is still competetive imo.

That's my point, you would draft less players, i.e. have less players, teams, people working concessions, retail, parking lot revenues, etc. 

That's certainly an option, but you would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Trust In Him posted:
keewart posted:
CTbballDad posted:

Any changes that should be considered are for the mid/low minor leaguer scraping by on $25K/year and delaying his ultimate professional/working career while chasing a dream.  It's those guys who will have long term issues, many of which they'll never over come.

CTbballDad, please tell me where this number came from???  LOL  

Milb teams only pay salaries for the 5 months they play (April-August) , and nothing for spring training.   My calculations come to under ~$6k for my son.  For the year.  (Ok, he got reimbursed for gas to get home since they didn't have to pay for a plane ticket.)  He is hoping to get a ~$50 per month raise this coming year.  (That is $250 total before taxes, folks).

He is not complaining at all and luckily lives a low-maintenance lifestyle.  He is making it work.  Some of the foreign guys even send money "home".

Higher wages in Milb are usually when a player comes down from another level, esp MLB players. 

He is living the dream....it just doesn't pay well  (right now)

Keewart, so true.  Just like to add for Spring Training it might be a team to team decision, or even specific player decision to pay for spring training.  My son attended last spring, he received a weekly stipend which included room/board, food, transportation, training center, and "misc" which can be considered to be salary and other expenses. Still paltry but it appeared to be same for all attendees, including veterans.

Trust In Him:  to clarify, although son did not get paid for spring training, nor get a stipend, he was provided a semi-private room in a hotel, food, and transportation via team van from the hotel to the training facilities and back.  For his organization, if you are married or in AA or above, you may get a stipend instead and don't have to stay in the "team hotel".

Son has a high school friend that now works for the Pirates organization.  They built essentially a dorm at their training facility to house and feed their players during spring training.  Looked like a Holiday Inn.  

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