One factor that seems to be left out is what does your child want to do when his playing days are over? If he is smart enough to be a surgeon you may want to take that ball out of his hand. Now. If he wants to be a baseball lifer, coach at xyz level, playing pro ball is like having a doctorate in baseball. You will get hired over non players to start your career.
Originally Posted by Doughnutman:
One factor that seems to be left out is what does your child want to do when his playing days are over? If he is smart enough to be a surgeon you may want to take that ball out of his hand. Now. If he wants to be a baseball lifer, coach at xyz level, playing pro ball is like having a doctorate in baseball. You will get hired over non players to start your career.
That last part about baseball lifers ... I think is the exact thing that happens to way too many -- and it's not good. No matter when it ends, unless someone finds true joy and fulfillment in continuing in 'baseball' after baseball, my hope for all young men is that they move on to the next phase of their lives.
I know a kid from a wealthy family who was a projected first round pick. Before the draft he stated if not offered 1.5M he was headed for the ACC. A team with a bunch of compensation picks drafted him in the third round. They offered 1.3. He held out for 1.5. On 8/15 at 11:55pm he signed for 1.3. He's in AAA now. He played in the Futures Game last year.
"That last part about baseball lifers ... I think is the exact thing that happens to way too many -- and it's not good"
I guess we will have to agree not to agree. I know a lot of scouts and coaches that wouldn't trade it for anything.
Some really great comments and points here. I know what my advice to my son is. Go to school. I don't think he is mature enough for pro ball. He has a great scholarship at one of the best SEC schools, as well as one of the best in the nation. I'm not sure I could even put a price on that opportunity. He will be coached by a pitching coach that was in professional baseball for over 20 years. But, it is his life. I give my opinion when he asks, but I'm trying to let him work through this on his own as much as possible. It has been a great life and learning experience. He had some arm issues toward the end of the high school season, so we shut him down as a precaution. It is amazing how pro scouts disappeared once word got out about his arm soreness. He was talking to at least half a dozen scouts weekly, but then nothing. I can tell you that plays on a young man's psyche. Professional baseball is a business and it is not for the meek! I hope everyone understands this. I tell him God has a plan and he just has to focus on the process and not worry about the results.
Originally Posted by Doughnutman:
"That last part about baseball lifers ... I think is the exact thing that happens to way too many -- and it's not good"
I guess we will have to agree not to agree. I know a lot of scouts and coaches that wouldn't trade it for anything.
Agreed. Getting some free tix for a game tonight from one of my former players who is a BP pitcher among other duties after a short minor league career. Loves the game, loves what he's doing. In fairness though he was drafted out of college and has his degree so he always has that to fall back on too. But a guy I went to high school with went in the draft right out of high school and played minor league ball for 10 years explicitly hanging on to make contacts and get into coaching. Last I knew he was still involved. At one point he was a AAA manager. Nothing wrong with being a lifer and loving what you do.
Originally Posted by Doughnutman:
"That last part about baseball lifers ... I think is the exact thing that happens to way too many -- and it's not good"
I guess we will have to agree not to agree. I know a lot of scouts and coaches that wouldn't trade it for anything.
I do agree with you Doughnutman. I don't get what is not good.
I am not sure people realize the doors that open for you when you are involved in any sport. Being involved in baseball doesnt end when you hang up the cleats.
Over the past several years MLB scouting departments have hired about 12 PG scouts. The interesting part of that is that every one of those scouts have a college degree.
Obviously you don't need to have a degree to be a MLB scout. It's not what would be considered a high paying job. I doubt that many young people head off to college thinking they will be a scout someday. Baseball gets in your blood. Those that truly love the game are happiest when they are around the game.
College is always a good choice when considering the future. It can create the most opportunities. At the same time, IMO, the most important thing in life is happiness. So I totally understand when a young person chooses baseball. Also believe those young people should have some kind of secondary plan if things don't work out.
Daron Sutton did a recent interview with Mike Trout. Mike's parents were in education. Mike is a big believer in education. He did have a back up plan. Of course, things have worked out well and he is happy. BTW, I don't really believe athletes should be role models, but this kid, Mike Trout, is one of the best role models in all of sports.
My thought is, once a reasonable bucket of money is offered, one has to look at the maturity level to determine if that kid can "survive" low level pro ball for a few years. I would argue that if they are mature enough, then they will have options in working towards a degree. Not a huge fan of online degrees, but over the next 3-5 years, this type of delivery, especially from reputable schools, will be much more common. I've read about "online" courses being offered to on-campus students (would have loved this back in the day). I'm guessing an average college ball player will be lucky to get a full three years worth of courses under his belt before being drafted after junior year. Compare that to knocking out the initial 2 years of common coursework online and then perhaps finding an onsite institution where you can work towards finishing up if you start to see your professional life in baseball coming to an end.
We all know stories of off-the-charts talented people who were in too big a hurry to achieve greatness to spend four years in college. We admire the decisive confidence of people like Ray Bradbury, who knew he would be a writer and got busy being one without wasting time in school. We similarly respect Bill Gates and Michael Dell and other tech geniuses who dropped out of school because they couldn't wait to put their ideas into practice.
These stories are inspiring--when they work.
I feel the same way about baseball and college.
If coaches and scouts affirm your sense that you really are good enough and you know baseball is all you want to do, I'd be the last person to tell you to defer your dream or hedge your bets with a college back-up plan.
Just be sure you really are good enough and you really are totally committed. Life plans that work for obsessed geniuses and magically gifted athletes usually don't pan out when less exceptional people try to follow them.
Originally Posted by JMoff:
Back in the day, I looked at this whole thing as a HS math problem from my youth.
How much money do you make to play baseball versus how much money you would make going to college. It actually becomes a very complicated math problem, because if you take the baseball money, what are the chances you make it versus what are the chances you come back to get your degree? How much money is made initially, yet forfeited along the way. If you promise mom you'll come back and get that degree, but get married and have kids in MiLB, can you really commit to giving up four years of income when the whole thing is over?
I created a spread sheet for my son out of HS. He's currently in college pursuing an engineering degree. Basically, I calculated the lifetime cost of delaying entry into the work force as an engineer by five years and being behind as a professional. I then figured in taxes that reduce the bonus, even calculated the effect of spreading the bonus over multiple years.
Some scout said, what will it take? I said (the exact number is lost to posterity) but it was something like $784,519.13. He asked how did you come up with that? I told him.
That was the day I realized scouts can't do math.
My son is in college, which I truly believe is the best path for most players. If somebody wants to give you $1m, take it, but be smart enough to know that about $7-10m is required to retire comfortably if you are currently in your late teens - early 20's and plan to live into your late 80's after retiring in your early 60's. Figure out how much you need to retire and find the highest probability way to get it.
It starts out as a HS word problem, but it is realy way more complicated.
Appreciate your math, but the idea that, at minimum (using your $7m number), a 20-year-old needs to expect to average $175k+/yr to retire comfortably by 65 scares the sh&t out of me. Especially being my age and not having made anywhere near that over the past 30+ years.
Keep in mind the kid who does choose college and leaves with a degee in Art History. We're in a different world now where a college degree doesn't open the doors it used to unless it's the right degree. I have a philosophy degree, so it was either law school or McDonald's.
Originally Posted by roothog66:
Keep in mind the kid who does choose college and leaves with a degee in Art History. We're in a different world now where a college degree doesn't open the doors it used to unless it's the right degree. I have a philosophy degree, so it was either law school or McDonald's.
This is so true. I was lucky enough to end up with an engineering degree. I don't see my son being able to do that. Even without playing baseball. In reality, he may end up with a business degree. Sure, that is better then no college, but there is a wide range of salaries for "college educated" people.
Originally Posted by PGStaff:
Over the past several years MLB scouting departments have hired about 12 PG scouts. The interesting part of that is that every one of those scouts have a college degree.
Obviously you don't need to have a degree to be a MLB scout. It's not what would be considered a high paying job. I doubt that many young people head off to college thinking they will be a scout someday. Baseball gets in your blood. Those that truly love the game are happiest when they are around the game.
College is always a good choice when considering the future. It can create the most opportunities. At the same time, IMO, the most important thing in life is happiness. So I totally understand when a young person chooses baseball. Also believe those young people should have some kind of secondary plan if things don't work out.
Daron Sutton did a recent interview with Mike Trout. Mike's parents were in education. Mike is a big believer in education. He did have a back up plan. Of course, things have worked out well and he is happy. BTW, I don't really believe athletes should be role models, but this kid, Mike Trout, is one of the best role models in all of sports.
Anyone can be a role model. It's about how the person carries themselves and what they accomplish. Not what profession they're in.
Originally Posted by roothog66:
Keep in mind the kid who does choose college and leaves with a degee in Art History. We're in a different world now where a college degree doesn't open the doors it used to unless it's the right degree. I have a philosophy degree, so it was either law school or McDonald's.
Isn't "philosophy" Latin for what grad schools have you applied to? One of my cousins got his BA/MA in intellectual history. His goal from the start was go to law school. So he chose a major he considered to be interesting to him. He wrote his theis on the writings of Kahlil Gibran. It didn't hurt his research the Gibrans are friends of the family.
When I graduated I interviewed with computer companies. They were interviewing people with business, mathematics and economics degrees. Once in I was pushed to get an MBA.
Originally Posted by RJM:
Originally Posted by roothog66:
Keep in mind the kid who does choose college and leaves with a degee in Art History. We're in a different world now where a college degree doesn't open the doors it used to unless it's the right degree. I have a philosophy degree, so it was either law school or McDonald's.
Isn't "philosophy" Latin for what grad schools have you applied to? One of my cousins got his BA/MA in intellectual history. His goal from the start was go to law school. So he chose a major he considered to be interesting to him. He wrote his theis on the writings of Kahlil Gibran. It didn't hurt his research the Gibrans are friends of the family.
Lol! very true. I also chose my major based on the idea that I was going to law school. I did look in the paper's help wanted ads after graduation and, sure enough, not a single ad for "sophist" or philosopher."
The replacement for Socrates was already filled?
Originally Posted by RJM:
The replacement for Socrates was already filled?
Didn't like the retirement plan.
Originally Posted by Swampboy:
Originally Posted by RJM:
The replacement for Socrates was already filled?
Didn't like the retirement plan.
The Hemlock Plan didn't float my boat.
