msnbc article - america's 25 new "elite" ivies

quote:

students are sometimes now choosing schools like Davidson and others instead of ivies, etc.

Students choose other schools because the Ivy League school didn't admit them. No one that I know would chose a school "instead" of an Ivy League school if they could get admitted into the Ivy League school.

I was a non-believer re the Ivy League years ago. Now I believe.

BeenthereIL,....just curious,..what changed that has now made you believe? If you dont mind sharing.

Wait,..I get it,..just read your profile and you have a son at Princeton!

No explanation necesary!

Congratulations!!

short and btb...

I was the typical Midwesterner some years ago arguing against going to the Ivies and talking about how "overrated" they were.

TRHit and NYMom and many others chastised me (now I know for good reason) about my attitude.

Once your son or daughter gets admitted to the school, it is a life-changing event. Graduation will be the crowning event.

Never imagined the support of the University family and alumni all over the world...not to mention the University community at Princeton.

He had some off field issues that he had to deal with that are now resolved.

Looking forward to fall ball and the springtime.

Happy to talk with anyone at 815-469-4520...If I can help.

There is definitely a mystique about the Ivies -(and Harvard, Yale and Princeton in particular). However, my daughter chose to go to Duke over acceptances at Penn, Brown, Darmouth, and Columbia (and Stamford, Williams and Amherst) - because the fit felt better to her. It's most important to find the right feeling for the student no matter how prestigious one perceives the school to be. It's not the sticker on the back of one's car that's ultimately important... it's how much the student will gain educationally and socially from going to a particular institution.

quote:

It's most important to find the right feeling for the student no matter how prestigious one perceives the school to be. It's not the sticker on the back of one's car that's ultimately important... it's how much the student will gain educationally and socially from going to a particular institution.

As always, sage advice.

Having lived in the Charlotte area for the past 19 years, I've come to know Davidson College fairly well. Plenty of that school's students chose Davidson over one of the traditional Ivies. Reasons I've heard most frequently offered include its exceptionally strong community feel because of its small size and its geographic location. Those are the sort of highly individual sorts of dimensions that go into the "fit" referred to by NY Mom.

"Traditional Ivy" or "New Ivy," there's a terrific education there to be gained at any of them. Putting the time into understanding the differences among them will go a long way toward getting the most out of the college experience.

quote:

Students choose other schools because the Ivy League school didn't admit them. No one that I know would chose a school "instead" of an Ivy League school if they could get admitted into the Ivy League school.

There are many reasons why students who have been or could be admitted into ivies don't choose to attend them. These reasons may include: preferring a warmer climate than that of the northeast; preferring to attend a college where all classes are taught by professors, rather than graduate assistants; preferring a campus environment that is less politically liberal than is prevalent at most or all ivies; and desiring to major in a subject that ivies don't specialize in, such as journalism or wildlife biology. There are probably a dozen other reasons I have not mentioned.

Gees...I was left with the assumpton that the student had actually applied and been admitted to an Ivy and then chose not to go.

NYMom...Thanks to you and to TRHit...My sons dream continues. And he's a conservative.

rosters are usually 25-30 players, many walk-ons.

No jv teams.

Only varsity.

We (wife, '09 softball daughter, '07 baseball son, and Paps)have just returned from a fact finding trip to a few of the Ivy campuses; we flew in to Providence, and in 7 days visited and attended campus tours at 4 of the schools (Brown, Harvard, Dartmouth, and Cornell). My son has been contacted (phone and letters) by Harvard, Dartmouth, and Cornell, and we met members of the coaching staff at Dartmouth and Cornell. Being from the west coast, the schools had a distinctly different feel to them when compared to the west coast schools we have visited, including my alma mater(s) San Diego State and UOP. If you like larger schools (campus, class size, newer facilities) Cornell would be attractive. Dartmouth, located in a small town, has an authentic old school feel to it, and offers class sizes of less than 30 students, and we were told that no TA's/grad students give lectures (all professors). Lately, Dartmouth has fielded the superior baseball teams.
My son has a high GPA and did very well on the SAT's, but doesn't yet have any real appreciation for the significance of an Ivy education when compared with non-Ivy schools. Being a homeowner in California pretty much knocks us out of the need based financial aid arena. I would love to see our kids get a degree with the social advantages of an Ivy school, however...our only real wealth is tied up in the house we are living in, and because we have ridden this California real estate wave we would have to pay full bore tuition at an Ivy school. Unless our son catches fire and just HAS to attend Cornell, or Dartmouth, or Harvard...he could attend a California school in the UC system, play baseball, and rely on his smarts and resourcefulness upon graduation to make it in the real world. And with his sister right on his tail, and her tuition and fees coming up just two years from now...YIKES!

BT: My daughter graduated from high school in 1994 - and times were different then. Most kids in her class applied to 6 or 8 schools - she applied to 12 schools after having been deferred from her first choice early decision school Yale (at that time, Yale was early decision). I work in the field of college counseling, and knew that applying to many schools would give her many choices later on. If she had been applying today, from her highly competitive high school, I would probably have suggested she apply to 15 or more schools. I feel strongly that it is extremely difficult for a student of 17 to decide where she would want to go to school eight months after applying.

Nowadays, she probably would not have had that many choices because college admissions is so much more difficult in terms of getting into the school as well as handicapping the outcome. My point was that she had Ivy choices and chose another route, albeit an excellent academic school. She was an elite figure skater which had no bearing on athletic recruiting at any of her schools.

She chose Duke without her or her parents knowing much about it save its excellent academic reputation. She went to visit it for a weekend when she was making her decision (and she visited all of the schools except Stamford in April). She came back from Duke and told us she felt the most at home there. As much as I would have liked her to go to Penn (my alma mater) or my husband would have liked her to go to his (Brown), we allowed her to follow her heart. It was such a wonderful choice, that her sister followed her there three years later. My son would have chosen to go there too if he had continued to be recruited for baseball - but interest stopped, and he chose a different route.

If you have any questions, feel free to send a PM. Hope this helps.

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Dartmouth, located in a small town, has an authentic old school feel to it, and offers class sizes of less than 30 students, and we were told that no TA's/grad students give lectures (all professors).

That was true for my son. Even had a couple of classes where the textbook was written by the professor himself. Can be intimidating at times.

Hi-Sorry it took me awhile to get back in here;thanks for your interest. My son has been offered two trips back east;one to Cornell and one to Villanova. We have heard from others, mostly by e-mail, and a couple of UC schools have weighed in, but the more I read here the better I am at relaxing and not waiting at the mailbox (or the pc) every day. And the funny thing is, to look at my son you wouldn't know that this is such a big deal. He is just taking it as it comes, returning e-mails and questionnaires, and getting ready for the big senior year that starts next week.
Filled out a couple of financial aid worksheets online and found that at a couple of Ivy schools we would get a pretty substantial break (about 10-12k/yr) when kid #2 enters college in two years. She, too, has good grades and is an excellent athlete, was varsity 2b as freshman and an all-league selection in a pretty fair league. There is still hope for the big scholarship...

Why go to an Ivie, When you have Cal-Poli right at Home??
Just Wondering. EH

theEH...

I had the same attitude when we had U of Chicago as an option in our backyard.

Believe it or not, there is a world of difference, in the "perception" worldwide of Harvard, Princeton and Yale.

I learned from TR and NYMom and others. They were right and I was wrong.

Paps:

Congrats, all are great schools.

However, it is my understanding that there is no athletic scholarships at the Ivies.

ILVBB- You are correct, sir...No athletic financial aid on the immediate horizon as the Ivy schools only offer "need based" financial aid. They won't consider my desire to retire before I am lowered into the ground...we do have friends who have a freshman football player at Princeton that is playing on the school's dime, but they have 3 kids, no house equity, and relatively low income.
My son has decided that 18 years under one roof will be enough for now, and is looking to get out of town for college. Yes, we have an excellent school with a great baseball program in our own backyard. Larry Lee and Jerry Weinstein are two highly respected people (and coaches) and have really positioned Cal Poly baseball for great things in the coming years. If we lived anywhere else but the San Luis Obispo area and my son was looking for a great place to play top level baseball, Cal Poly would be an excellent choice. Funny how that works, but when I was my son's age I did the same exact thing. I didn't know how good I had it in my own backyard, and I had to leave to find out.
He has sent in some early admission paperwork and will be making a visit (or two) in early October. It would be great to have all the decision making done this fall, but I just want him to be as sure as he can be before he commits...
Thanks to everyone for your comments; this website has been a godsend for first timers like us.

Sometimes schools can do an "early read" on financial aide, especially with recruited athletes. Universities do understand that athletes need financial aide information to make an educated decision on school choice. Universities know that these boys sign/commit in the fall. If you haven't had an early estimate read on financial aide, you might be surprised at the outcome. Some schools do figure in home equity at a different percentage rate than cash or savings accounts. Aide can be varied from school to school. Having previously resided in Sonoma County, I understand the house-rich /Cash-poor dilemma of CA real estate.

At first, we thought the possibility of Ivy League education was completely out of the question due to finances, but when we just came out and expressed our concerns to the schools, we found out it was something we could afford to do.

I would have to say that "best fit" is very important regarding choice of University.

My own son was extremely blessed to have been afforded several choices to many of the fine schools mentioned in this thread and more. Educations, of course, are phenominal at each of these institutions and coaches are great. It was a very difficult decision for our son, but he opted for Stanford and the fit has been perfect for him.

I will say that he put academics at top of his list, with a variety of other items rated in importance on a scale of 1-10. One very important thing to our son was the weather and the conference play. I know that might sound silly, but it was important to him and his overall happiness. Not necessarily items at the top of his list, but still important.

The key thing is to look at all possibilities and keep an open mind in the recruiting process. The more investigation and research you do in the forefront the less likely for doubts later on.

Believe me, we spent more than one night staring at the ceiling, unable to sleep, wondering where our son would decide to go, would he be happy, would the choice be the "right" one, etc., etc.?

But what a great "problem" to have!

On the other side of the decision, our son finished his Frosh year 1/3 of the way towards Bachelors, declared his Major and meet a ton of awesome college kids that are a lot like him. He had some ups and some downs, but he is very happy with his choice and would not go anywhere else. He loves his school! Professors, coaches and staff have been awesome! He even liked the food!!!

But, BeenthereIL is quite correct about the advantages of Ivy educations and alumni networks. University's reputation and respect worldwide= Higher starting salary and quality education. There are tremendous benefits and opportunities available for students of Ivy Institutions. I must say that part of our research definitely included reading the alumni list of previous graduates. University Faculty is a big one, too, (IE how many Nobel , Pulitzer, or other honorary awards has faculty earned?) Which fields of study does each institution excel? Are the faculty members approachable? Average starting salary of graduates. Employment Placement/Networking among graduate population? Best is to visit and ask a lot of questions. Talk to students, players, former players, former students, coaches, freshman's dean office, admissions, etc.

Listen to your son's inner voice, ultimately he will know in his heart where he must go.

Our son made his decision, we just provided the facts about each school so our son could make an educated decision.

Congratulations to you and your son, enjoy this year!

Do the homework and research regarding different Universities and the choice made will be the best one for your son!

Good Luck and have fun!