NCAA changes season start dates

It's good to know that the NCAA has either come to an agreement with Mother Nature, or they understand this global warming issue. I guess with this agreement us northerners can get our gardens in at the end of January next year.
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Kidding aside, reality sucks, but it's there, and you have to deal with it. The Southern schools will be on the field all winter but without coaches present until Feb 1. The Northern schools first outdoor practice will coinside with the first pre-season game. The Northern kids have sucked it up for years and the only way they can get around it is by going to school in the South. No whining allowed, at least they're playing ball.

Does anyone think this will change things?

Did the NCAA just throw a bone to the Northern schools who have complained about this for years?

I wonder what the summer college leagues think of this new format?

I've always looked at this weather issue as a hurdle Northern kids have to deal with, and hurdles can be a good experience. Besides, it's not how you start your season, it's how you end it. There is no perfect work around. Jan, Feb, and March will always be Jan, feb, and March in the North.

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Southern schools will be on the field all winter but without coaches present until Feb 1.

Are you sure about this? ASU, Cal Poly, Fresno State, Cal State Northridge have games scheduled for Jan 27th.

Not disagreeing with your thought process for the rest of your comments.

Unless the NCAA cuts the number of games, all the change will accomplish is even more missed classes. No Clue At All.

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Starting next year, teams won't be allowed to begin practicing until February 1 and the season won't start until late February with the CWS to remain so that it ends before July.

Frank, I was just going by HeyBatters comments. If it's so, the schedules are not written in stone and I'm sure can be changed.

Fungo, Where are you? We need an expert.

Does this push the end dates of conference seasons and tournaments back a couple of weeks? If so there will be no real effect on schools using the semester system since they are typically finished with classes around the first week of May. Selfishly, I'm a CPA and would love having more games available after 4/15. In Tennessee you can't always tell about the weather. We're in a temperate latitude. There are some years where the weather in January is as good or better as February. Last year the March and April weather generally sucked. However, if more games are pushed into late April and early May, then the weather here gets considerably better.

I do believe the NCAA would like more games after classes have finished, but that will also logjam schedules and pitchers could get over worked. It is also not fair to those schools that can begin their programs in january. There must be many south eastern, southern and western schools that can play, why shouldn't they be able to.

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Originally posted by JT:
Unless the NCAA cuts the number of games, all the change will accomplish is even more missed classes. No Clue At All.

Good observation...it does level the missed class playing field Southern teams will now have to play just as many games during the week as everyone else.

One other thing it does. It evens the pitching/inning/overuse ratio to some degree. 56 games in 100 days is much more taxing on a staff than 56 games in 130 days.

To add to my point, if the NCAA decides to extend the season, even by just a couple of weeks, now the schools will have to house and feed the players, adding even more cost to a sport that is rarely, if ever, self-sufficient. I could see some colleges reduce the number of scholarships they offer to offset the extra expense.

quote:

Are you sure about this? ASU, Cal Poly, Fresno State, Cal State Northridge have games scheduled for Jan 27th

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Frank, the changes take effect in 2007.
The proposal to reduce the number of games was declined but it has been retructured and the issue will be revisited in August I believe

Sorry. My bad (just for you gotwood ). Two lashes with a wet noodle. I thought we were still dealing with this year.

quote:

but that will also logjam schedules and pitchers could get over worked

You mean the coaches might have to use their whole pitching staff instead of giving their horses the majority of the innings?

2007 or 2008?...either way...

1) Very few and maybe no more southern trips in February for the northern teams.
2) Now...arms and grades can fail together, with 4.3 games per week on average.
3) With zero games to schedule in the southland, can you imagine getting 56 games played in about 11 or 12 weeks if your in the Big 10, MO.Valley or any other place that can't get outside till April?
4) The northern teams will no longer be able to measure themselves against the better teams in the south which will result in a weaker schedule.


The bottom line is that the Miami,Texas and Arizona State teams will be working out from Jan 1. through February in good weather and will have most of their scheduled games played without fear of cancellation. Meanwhile, the Notre Dame, St. John and Ohio State teams will be indoors in January and February, not be able to even practice outside,let alone schedule a game in early through mid-March and generally risk even more injuries than in years past because of the multitude of cancellations resulting in make-up games that will end in a MLB type schedule!

Wow!

I am with you soxnole - the next time the NCAA makes a good decision would you please let me know?

I don't really understand the utilitarian aspect in all this. In other words, you would at least think you would want to make a decision that optimizes the greatest good for the greatest amount of people.

With this decision, it appears in an attempt "to level the playing field" you have made matters worse for the student-athlete in the south and yet, they still have a built-in advantage as soxnole points out. In short, it seems they have made it worse for many more people without solving the original problem which I am not sure can be solved in the first place. More Global Warming maybe? Maybe having less Indian mascot names will do the trick.

CD

Speaking of mascots and mascot names--how does ARMY get to keep the name "Black Knights"?

TR...seriously...your a northern guy...do you see the logic?

Sox,

That's the problem you're trying to apply logic to the NCAA...

Those stuffed shirts have no idea what is good for "student athletes" or sports in general.

I am with Blazer --- there is no logic with the NCAA.

Are you talking schools in the warmer climates like Florida, Texas and California?

Sons school always began late february, waiting for warmer weather now due to increase in ACC teams, now they begin mid febuary, just like northern schools, carry a 56 game schedule, 5 days a week, regular season ending a few days before ACC tourney, then on to post season. Do you all consider South Carolina south?

5 games a week sounds tough, but gets the momentum going, the players love it, this is why your boys are there, to play as much as they can. It can be taxing on the pitchers, coaches will have to have more than 3 starters, 4, 5 even. Maybe this will increase pitcher rosters.

Maybe NCAA is just making the northern teams a bit happier. However, players at any school should be expected to be in shape and ready to roll when they return from break. Coaches will get the kinks out in the fall. Not having official practice until Feb 1 won't stop anyone from running practices, workouts unofficially. You can't balme southern schools for having advantages of no snow on teh ground, that's just a fact of life.
Sons school was over first week in May and he still had another month of baseball, with no school to worry about, he loved it. That's the way most schools do it. Folks, it's a bit different than HS.

rz,
Good point, it's not how you start but how you finish. By the way, pretty impressive 2007 schedule with those ACC and SEC teams. The coach is really setting up the school to be a contender. Good for him!

I don't agree with everything the NCAA does, but it's quite hard making everyone happy when you have so many different climates to contend with around the country, so many different school schedules.
I don't understand the talk about missing any more classes. Check schedules, most big schools play 4-5 games per week. If you have those concerns, then honestly maybe college baseball is not the way to go. That is how it is, one of the reasons your sons study habits and time management is very important.

JMO.

Why didn't the NCAA just make the weather equal, too?

That way everything would be equal.

Then since everything is equal everything would be fair, and everyone could play the same number innings, get the same number of at bats, get the same grades in school.


Maybe they can get the weather on the agenda for next year.

And personally, I can't wait for our synchronized swimming team to start. We already have rowing in Texas, always a complete sell out.

Do they have men and women synchronized swimming and rowing?

How do they do synchronized swimmim up nawth if the ice don't thaw till July?

FormerObserver

You aint seen nothing yet.

I dont think it has anything to do with correcting the competitve advantage of South vs. North teams. The squeeze on college baseball is just beginning.

The next proposal will be a reduction in the number of allowable scholarships for mens baseball in Div 1 and 2.

As JT said - the changes will add additional pressure on class attendance, grades and physical wear and tear. This will be used as justification for further reductions in games - and ultimately money for collegiate baseball.

The money will be taken - but not from football or men's basketball. Collegiate baseball is the next sitting duck for reduction.

The good news - Badminton - Synchronized swimming and Ping Pong are going to new heights.

The NCAA will get equality - as long as it doesnt cost them any money. With the money makers (Football and Mens basketball) untouchable - all other mens sports are going to continue to get chewed up.

It's a great decision in my view for a couple of important reasons:

1. It helps minimize a major, major advantage of warm-weather schools, particularly in AZ and SoCal, where it also does not rain very much. These guys will hit mid-season form much closer to the times the northern teams do.

2. It gives more programs on a national scale a chance to be strong because more games will be played in better weather and the inducment for the best pitchers to head south will not be as strong. It also will provide more incentive for players from southern schools to head north.

The end result ought to be more strong college opportunities for more players, and what could be bad about that?

jemaz,

I dont see how a couple of weeks is going to help at all on the field - with the possible exception of pitching durability.

Ultimately - the compression of the season will put even more pressure on the baseball player academically - and during the heart of the spring semester.

I think the results of this (academically) will be used as justification for a continued assault on mens college baseball (financially).

I hope I am dead wrong.

Game:

It's not a couple of weeks, it's more like a month, and academically, I don't see a big difference. The only thing I would have done different is push the Collge World Series back to the Fourth of July. I just believe that it will make a huge difference for northern teams, particularly those commited to big time college baseball such as some of the Big 10 schools.

Jemaz,

I hope you are right.

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by FO: How do they do synchronized swimmim up nawth if the ice don't thaw till July?

eh . . . it's called ice skating


this has been a long time obsession with OSU's Todd - "The" OSU Todd's victory re: NCAA

I'd agree with jemaz that it basicly penalizes So Cal & Az schools for having good weather -
but, offering more good opportunities at northern schools is a stretch of the imagination

and - for 95% of the 290 DI baseball programs it IS a just couple weeks (5-7) games -
ALSO a reminder - northern teams already begin early by traveling south, west, & southwest

flawed logic - the start day is NOT a factor in northern players heading south to play & study -
it's ALL those other days between October & April

the REAL imbalance comes from some schools & fans NOT SUPPORTING non revenue sports - so fix no funds, no facilities & no fan base

ps - are southern schools now entitled to NEW indoor fieldhouses??

If the CWS goes back to July then the summer leagues like Cape Cod et al will be up in arms.

Currently they do not kids from Omaha until after the college season ends--move the CWS back that means playoffs teams will be affected as well as the final 8 in Omaha. I have already heard rumblings regarding this

There are a load of pieces in this puzzle

Not too mention who pays the freight for the kids staying at school the extra month--they are already on campus a month after classes end

This is just remnants of the obvious failure of the northern states during their reconstruction era after the civil war. The biggest mistake they made was going back up north to allow us dumb southerners to wallow in our poverty and ignorance. Thank you! We love it down here! You can only shake your head about this type of reasoning. This is a great example of greed destroying logic. What about the poor baseball players at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. Oh, they don’t have a baseball team do they? That’s immaterial. They should have the same opportunity as baseball players in Florida. We know they love baseball in Alaska because of the popularity of the Alaskan summer leagues. Obviously the NCAA is not considering ALL the student athletes when they make adjustments. Does this really help the cold climate teams ... No! All this does is limit the warm climate players (or so it appears). Let's all laugh at the feeble mindedness of the NCAA and the northern coaches. Do you think for one minute that the warm climate baseball players are going to remain idle while the hockey players (that also play a little baseball) wait for their baseball field with to thaw? It’s going to be a tough pill to swallow when the NCAA completes their idiotic adjustments and baseball is finally declared equal through out our land and the southern states continue to dominate. That would only lend validity to those that profess that northern players are less talented than the southern players.
Besides I’m sure the NCAA didn’t consider all the facts. There is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Did they consider that Ohio players have an unlimited supply of good luck buckeyes and all other northern states have the prolific rabbit that provides large numbers of rabbit’s feet? Luck is obviously on the side of the northern states while the southern players are left to struggle with warm weather, sweet gum balls, tumbleweed, armadillos, enhanced only by a little talent.

Like the Buddy Jewell song says: Carry on ...Carry on.... Sweet southern comfort, carry on....

Fungo

The only difference will be the northern teams will lose later.

Perhaps all of this criticism of the move is accurate, although I continue to disagree, and perhaps northern teams are destined to have weakling baseball programs no matter what, and perhaps on the college level baseball is little more than a regional curiosity (although I must disagree with that notion), but even with all of that, it just seems wrong to play baseball during basketball season.

It is an idea that cannot hurt on a broader scale and might even help -- even if it is a little. Remember, too, the impetus for this is not coming from the NCAA administration, but from baseball people.

As for the summer leagues, two things:

1. They are not the concern of the colleges.
2. Not all that many players from the overall pool are in the College World Series anyway. The summer leagues, including the Cape, will continue to do as well as ever.

Fungo,

You are a wise man.

Do you think that maybe the Northern coaches got a little tired of taking of the snow boots, going South and getting whomped on by Southern teams whose main interest was to pad rankings and stats?

Maybe the Northern coaches saw that they were being used as a "kick-dawg" and got together and said "we can't beat em on the field so lets form an alliance that says the season start dates are unfair. We might not win more games but at least we'll pisss em off". A moral vitory.

I think it's a given that Southern teams are better regardless of the reason. However, if that pre-season schedule was played at the end of the year the games would be much more competitive.

Let me ask a question since I don't think there is a solution for all the comments.

Is College Baseball the only NCAA sport that did not have a uniform starting date?????? Think about it.

I know football does, basketball has midnight madness, hockey??? All the revenue generators are goverend by starting dates.

If you want to see what sports are financially supporting athletice programs look up the Equity in Athletic disclosure for your school.

Rz1,
I appreciate the compliment but it was all tongue in cheek. There are some great teams in the north and some great players in the north. Matter of fact, Ohio State knocked our SEC team out of the regionals in 2003 and my son’s best friend in the pro ranks hails from Stevens Point in your fine state. While there are many great baseball players up north, many of them do come south for a variety of reasons and will continue to do so. I don’t think legislation can stop that. Wouldn’t it be terrible if EVERYTHING was equal just so everyone could feel average?

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Originally posted by Fungo:
While there are many great baseball players up north, many of them do come south for a variety of reasons and will continue to do so.

Not saying my son is "great" since he's only 13 but he aspires to play at the college level one day and certainly considers playing for a southern school as the ultimate destination.

Regarding the NCAA changes, if they want to make thing equal then they should look at the number of scholarships allowed in the various sports compared to roster size. A D1 baseball team can only give 11.7 schollys yet has 33 players on avg (33%) whereas a football team gets 85 scholarships and has 100 or so players, basketball usually has close to 100% of their players on scholarship. I think I would rather see how an increase in baseball scholarships would change things. Nothing will change the weather though and moving to a uniform (later) start date will do little to level the playing field.

That scholly issue not only opens up a whole new can of worms it is not showing much sensitivity to the womens rowing teams of this great land.


Before my son went off to college he had a list of the warm schools he wanted to attend. School costs and ignorance of certain warm weather schools made the Northern route the best choice. I'm sure that some will feel sorry for him because he was cheated out of the Southern baseball experience. However, this year he will have finished his Junior year with over 300 innings pitched and have had the opportunity play against teams like Miami, Nebraska, NC State, Long Beach State, Mississippi, Notre Dame, Arkansas, Creighton, and others. It's a shame those Mid D1 Northern schools don't get to see good competition

Bottom line he did not go to college to play baseball and get an education, he went to college get an education and play baseball. This and other recent threads have compared schools, coaches, and programs, and I am just as guilty. At first I was very envious of those kids who had the opportunity to play down South, now I say more power to them, and I hope they enjoy the ride. My less fortunate son is getting an education beyond my wildest dreams, he lives in an ethnically thriving community, an adventurous city, has great coaching, great friends, and is having the time of his life. What a drag it is to be him.

I guess my point is to parents who have to start thinking about the future college plans is not to put blinders on when making the college choice. The complete experience is bigger than the game.... That's hard for a guy who bleeds baseball to say.

As rz1 steps away from the mic apologizing for babbling on

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Originally posted by rz1:
That scholly issue not only opens up a whole new can of worms it is not showing much sensitivity to the womens rowing teams of this great land.

Title IX is a whole different matter that I dare get into. But suffice it to say that my daughter (Sr) is finalizing her college plans which includes athletics.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Bottom line he did not go to college to play baseball and get an education, he went to college get an education and play baseball.

So far, the 13u son seems to have that very mind set; a chance to play baseball while getting a good education. Of course he's young and the next several years may spoil that.

rz1, I can identify! Good post.

rz1 - no apologies necessary. Excellent post. Doesn't sound like your son was cheated at all

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he lives in an ethnically thriving community

Golly, I don't know if I could afford that. My son had to live in an apartment just north of town.