NCAA D1 Rules Question for Redshirts

D1 roster is 35 max and that includes redshirted players and medical waivers.

To amplify TPM's comments, D1 baseball teams must declare the roster (squad list in NCAA jargon) before the first game of the spring season. It can have a maximum of 35 players, and must include any players who began the year on a baseball scholarship (with rare exceptions). In your scenario, two of the players are on scholarship, and must be on the 35 man roster. Two others have to be cut from the team and can't practice with the team. So one player not among the three you listed will have to be cut.

Also, the team may have fewer than 35 spots for the 37 players: any players who left the team during the fall and who had baseball money still have to be counted on the 35 man roster. Generally speaking, we parents don't know who may fall into that category, and often teammates don't know either.

Thank you for the response. So following that logic... in my scenario, since 2 of the redshirts started the fall on scholarship, those 2 guys will automatically be counted towards the 35 max roster. The only redshirt that would not count is the walk-on. The coach would have to cut another non-scholarship athlete to get down to 35. Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct.

BTW, the term "redshirt" has no well defined meaning, but I think most people here use it to mean a player who is on the 35 man roster, but doesn't compete in any game during the season. Using this definition of a redshirt, the player does practice with the team and is part of the team.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Yes, that is correct.

BTW, the term "redshirt" has no well defined meaning, but I think most people here use it to mean a player who is on the 35 man roster, but doesn't compete in any game during the season. Using this definition of a redshirt, the player does practice with the team and is part of the team.

Good poing made by 3FG.

The designation of redshirt is not rewarded until after the championhship season.

And to muddy the waters even more:

"Medical redshirt" injured during the season plays less than 30% of the games & is granted an extra year of eligibility after season ends and is approved by the NCAA

It occurred to me that coaches may have a way to get around the restrictions of 27 scholarship players and which also alleviates some of the restriction around redshirting. Let's say a D1 coach offers 11.7 scholarships to 17 kids one year and then alternates the 11.7 scholarships to the other 18 kids the next year. So every other year, each kids gets 66% scholarship for what is effectively a 33% scholarship over 4 years. You would then have 35 guys on scholarship. And, if you wanted to redshirt players bring in a few walk-ons, you would have a pool of 17 or 18 players to redshirt without it counting against your 35 man roster (because they did not start the year on scholarship). Is that in fact a way around the current rules?

quote:

Originally posted by masterofnone:
It occurred to me that coaches may have a way to get around the restrictions of 27 scholarship players and which also alleviates some of the restriction around redshirting. Let's say a D1 coach offers 11.7 scholarships to 17 kids one year and then alternates the 11.7 scholarships to the other 18 kids the next year. So every other year, each kids gets 66% scholarship for what is effectively a 33% scholarship over 4 years. You would then have 35 guys on scholarship. And, if you wanted to redshirt players bring in a few walk-ons, you would have a pool of 17 or 18 players to redshirt or cut without it counting against your 35 man roster (because they did not start the year on scholarship). Is that in fact a way around the current rules?

There is an exception to take into consideration as well.

If a player is taken off the roster in order to cut the team down to the 35 max, he ordinarily cannot return to the team the following year. He would have to sit out a year, just as if he had transferred out to another school.

BUT, if that player graduated during the year off the roster, he would be eligible to transfer without the one-year sit-out requirement being involved. This is the rule that, e.g., allowed Russell Wilson to transfer from N.C. State to Wisconsin without having to sit out for a year.

So if it happens that your injured guy is a senior on track to graduate, you can get away with taking him off your roster for this year, while leaving to door open for him to return to the team next year without difficulty (as a "fifth year senior" athletically, a grad student academically).

I know that Wake Forest has a 5th year guy doing this right now, as one example.

Which proves once again that the NCAA has ruled itself into pretzel knots, to the point that lots of things make no sense whatsoever.

quote:

If a player is taken off the roster in order to cut the team down to the 35 max, he ordinarily cannot return to the team the following year. He would have to sit out a year, just as if he had transferred out to another school.

What rule says this?

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:

quote:

If a player is taken off the roster in order to cut the team down to the 35 max, he ordinarily cannot return to the team the following year. He would have to sit out a year, just as if he had transferred out to another school.

What rule says this?

I wonder if there is a misunderstanding. I know of one player who was cut as a freshman, returned as a RS freshman, made the team, and ended up being voted a DH All American.

If a player is cut from the team and doesn't make the 35-man spring roster, they're not allowed to practice or workout with the team during the spring. But, as 3FG knows when he posed his question, there is no rule that prohibits them from returning to the team the next year, regardless of whether they graduate or not.

I have seen this formula expressed as "less than 30%" and as "less than 20%." Which is correct? Was it changed (fairly recently)?

Both are correct!  The rules are different for each of the three NCAA divisions, different again for NAIA, and even more different if the player was injured at a 2 year college. Any player who was injured before transferring may take the more favorable ruleset. In all cases the rule is more complicated than just a percentage.  So if you really need to know the details of the hardship waiver, see 14.2.5 in the D3 and D2 Manuals, or 12.2.4 in the D1 manual.

 

On the other hand, perhaps you're just curious.  Very roughly speaking, D3 requires not more than one third, D2 not more than 20%, and D1 not more than 30%.  For many situations, NAIA only requires that the injury be season ending, regardless of how many games have been played.  

Thank you 3FG!! I was curious but also trying to nail down the answer as it relates to D1 and finding myself confused. Appreciate the clarity very much.

This is an old thread, however somewhat relevant at this time. 

 

Scenario: D1 Specific.  A scholy player is injured during the summer prior to his Soph year (non baseball related injury while away at Summer Ball). 

 

Played extensively as frosh and was very successful.  He is enrolled and going to classes at College A and still under scholy the beginning of Soph year. Was Frosh Academic All American.

 

Player was going to try to undergo treatment and rehab instead of undergoing season ending surgery.  Coach at College A says "I'm pulling your scholy next year (would be Jr. year) since you put us in a bad position".  Realize, this is 4 months prior to the beginning of season so there's still a chance the treatment/rehab could fix the issue........thanks Coach!

 

Question is, if the player decides to have surgery and applies/receives a medical waiver "redshirt" for his soph year and elects to transfer to another D1 (College B), will he have to sit out another year due to transfer rules or would the medical "redshirt" year be considered the 1 year he has to sit out?

 

Could he transfer to College B at mid year, pay his own way while while recovering from surgery then receive a scholy from College B come the fall semester?  I'm assuming if this could happen, he'd still have to fit into the 35 man roster guidelines at College B.

 

The college coach looked me in the eye during the recruiting process and said he will never pull a scholy unless the player gets in off field problems or is not doing what he has to in the classroom.  I don't consider being an Academic All American as a frosh and the injury that happened cause for pulling a scholy.....The colleges/coaches have all the power and there is nothing we as parents/players can do about it - frustrating!

 

Looking for some guidance on options.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

If the player doesn't compete at all in the spring season--for any reason--he won't consume a season of eligibility and there is therefore no need for a hardship waiver  unless he loses a second season to injury or other hardship.

 

The phrase "sit out a year" is commonly used, but the actual rule requires transfers to a D1 school to serve an academic year in residence at the new school before gaining eligibility.  So if the player stays at school A through the spring of his sophomore year and transfers to school B in the fall of his junior year, he won't be eligible in the spring of his junior year.

 

Your second scenario does work: he can transfer mid-year, and be eligible to compete one year after his transfer.  In most circumstances, the NCAA by rule would allow him to receive a scholarship immediately upon transferring, although that is highly unlikely to happen.  It is not very likely that he would be awarded athletic money by school B at any time, simply because school B won't believe they need to.

And my additional question to this is purely out of curiosity.  If he chooses the above, is he allowed to participate in any and all team activities in the fall?  So, suppose he xfer's after the current fall 2015 semester and enrolls in DI School B immediately (spring 2016).  Based on your description above, he would be eligible to play for DI School B in spring 2017.  Would he be able to participate in all of the fall 2016 official team workouts?

Nuke83, this athlete would be able to participate in all Fall 2016 practices and intra-squad scrimmages.  The only thing he wouldn't be able to do next Fall is to participate in any games or scrimmages that the school might schedule against other teams in the Fall. 

 

tlbaseball, in situations where an athlete's scholarship is not renewed for the following year, the school does have to provide a hearing opportunity where the athlete can appeal the non-renewal of the scholarship (before a committee of campus faculty and staff who are from outside the athletic department).  In reality, that may not be that helpful, as the athlete may want to transfer out at mid-year so he can be eligible at another Division I program in the Spring of 2017, but just wanted to clarify that an appeal opportunity is required.

Thanks everyone, this has been very helpful.  It's unbelievable the coaches/institutions have all the control over a young persons life......they can look you in the eye, shake your hand, tell you one thing (I will never pull a scholy unless a player gets into trouble off the field or classroom) and then pull this type of stuff.  I guess he considers getting injured the same as "getting into trouble"............

 

A few follow-up questions:

 

If enrolled in School B in the Spring of 2016, can the athlete use the facilities/trainers for rehab, given he would be paying his way and not under scholy? 

 

Is there anything holding School B from offering a scholy for the following year (Fall 2016/Spring 2017) should the athlete be academically eligible and enroll at School B in the Spring of 2016?

 

Does the athlete need to gain formal written approval from School A (Coach/AD?) to speak to other coaches/schools (D1/D2/D3/NAIA) while still enrolled (and under scholy) at School A?

 

Thank you again.