Travel ball, lessons and equipment for baseball are very expensive.
Young black athletes and thier families can see that b-ball and football can get them 100% as opposed to far less in baseball.
HS kids, white or black from poor backgrounds are going to sign a pro contract every time.
These 3 reason's are the deciding factor in D1 baseball becoming a sport dominated by middle class white's.
Keep in mind the ridiculous quote of the long time Oklahoma baseball coach this past year. What do you think that did for the average African-American player and his family, trying to decide between the 3 sports? Any D1 b-ball or football head coach would be fired on the spot, as opposed to OU "wrestling with the issue". D1 college baseball needs an upgrade...in scholarship $ and in coaching pay scales. Far too often the better man chooses another occupation while the coach Cochell's of the world proliferate.
MOC1 -
Sent you a PM.
Sent you a PM.
Williebobo
I really enjoyed reading your post. Brought back many memories very much like your descriptions though we may have used different definitions to describe a broom handle for a bat, and tennis balls. We called it "fast-pitch". We drew a box on a wall where ever we could find an abondoned lot or a municipal tennis cour not in use. We would play from 8 o'clock in the morning until the Sun disappeared in the West.
Then we realized tht the pros threw their bats away when they got cracked so we would sneak into the stadium where the beer trucks pulled up to unload their cases of beer, and wait until the game was over. Then we would beg the players to give us their cracked bats. We would take those bats and use 1/2-inch tacks and electricians tape to repair the bats. So all our bats had a black roll of tape around the labels.
The last broken bat I got was a Willie Mays signature model from Seals Stadium. As a kid growing up in San Francisco, late 1948's - 1956 we spent most of our waking hours at the public playgrounds. Then I finally got to join my first "real" baseball team with the Boys Club. First time I ever trraveled outside San Francisco was to Pittsburgh, California to play a baseball game for the Boys Club. We never had TV so it was listening to the baseball games on the radio. That's how I became a Yankees fan living in San Francisco. To this day I am a Yankees fan.
I really enjoyed reading your post. Brought back many memories very much like your descriptions though we may have used different definitions to describe a broom handle for a bat, and tennis balls. We called it "fast-pitch". We drew a box on a wall where ever we could find an abondoned lot or a municipal tennis cour not in use. We would play from 8 o'clock in the morning until the Sun disappeared in the West.
Then we realized tht the pros threw their bats away when they got cracked so we would sneak into the stadium where the beer trucks pulled up to unload their cases of beer, and wait until the game was over. Then we would beg the players to give us their cracked bats. We would take those bats and use 1/2-inch tacks and electricians tape to repair the bats. So all our bats had a black roll of tape around the labels.
The last broken bat I got was a Willie Mays signature model from Seals Stadium. As a kid growing up in San Francisco, late 1948's - 1956 we spent most of our waking hours at the public playgrounds. Then I finally got to join my first "real" baseball team with the Boys Club. First time I ever trraveled outside San Francisco was to Pittsburgh, California to play a baseball game for the Boys Club. We never had TV so it was listening to the baseball games on the radio. That's how I became a Yankees fan living in San Francisco. To this day I am a Yankees fan.
quote:Far too often the better man chooses another occupation while the coach Cochell's of the world proliferate.
Soxnole
I agree and I am personaly thankful that's not always the case.
I fully understand what the coach was trying to say. He chose his words poorly.
He was referring to player attitude. Apparently the player in question had a team attitude, showed respect for the coach, teammates and the program.
When a coach has absolute power in a reasonably small geographic social setting, the use of the socially accepted terminology of the area may not be acceptable nationwide.
If the coach were actualy being vindictive, he would have never allowed that player on HIS TEAM.
http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/05/01/4275a988c11c5
He was referring to player attitude. Apparently the player in question had a team attitude, showed respect for the coach, teammates and the program.
When a coach has absolute power in a reasonably small geographic social setting, the use of the socially accepted terminology of the area may not be acceptable nationwide.
If the coach were actualy being vindictive, he would have never allowed that player on HIS TEAM.
http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/05/01/4275a988c11c5
quote:He chose his words poorly.
The understatement of the millenium.
quote:If the coach were actualy being vindictive, he would have never allowed that player on HIS TEAM.
If that was truely the case, then plenty of black folks would never have been employed.
OU Coach thread 5/05
Racist Coach Thread
Agree with heybatter...
Economic issue that manifests itself into race...
The $300 bats, $30 per half hour lessons, $300 showcases, $250 Airline fares, $75 hotels, $500 travel team fees....that a player needs to have any chance to compete currently in the US Youth baseball model simply excludes a certain economic segment of the population be they any race.
Beyond the basic personal economics of travel ball, development and recuiting, there is the community economics of starter programs and community ball. Specifically the available labor to keep baseball alive at the community level.
For those of us who have been involved in youth League administration, it is simply a full time job to run snack bars, keep fields up, administer leagues and coach well.
Only communities who have the economic luxury of available labor can make baseball work and compete, and thrive at a community level. If parents are busy struggling to make a living they are not going to have the scores of hours it takes to make a league prosper and draw the next generation of ball players.
Without such economics players will gravitate to sports that take less space, less administration, and currently....less $, less parents, less travel. When this economic scenerio becomes a community trend, when these sports become a community norm, and a history they get ingrained.
When a player from that community makes good he becomes the "model of possibility". He will perpetuate that model.
Not to say that a economically challenged kid in an alley playing stickball could not make it as they may have in the past, but with the current model of baseball economics, culture, development and exposure (college and pro coaches using the showcase system to a large extent) such a situation is difficult at best.
It is possible to reverse such trends but it's really swimming upstream.
Economic issue that manifests itself into race...
The $300 bats, $30 per half hour lessons, $300 showcases, $250 Airline fares, $75 hotels, $500 travel team fees....that a player needs to have any chance to compete currently in the US Youth baseball model simply excludes a certain economic segment of the population be they any race.
Beyond the basic personal economics of travel ball, development and recuiting, there is the community economics of starter programs and community ball. Specifically the available labor to keep baseball alive at the community level.
For those of us who have been involved in youth League administration, it is simply a full time job to run snack bars, keep fields up, administer leagues and coach well.
Only communities who have the economic luxury of available labor can make baseball work and compete, and thrive at a community level. If parents are busy struggling to make a living they are not going to have the scores of hours it takes to make a league prosper and draw the next generation of ball players.
Without such economics players will gravitate to sports that take less space, less administration, and currently....less $, less parents, less travel. When this economic scenerio becomes a community trend, when these sports become a community norm, and a history they get ingrained.
When a player from that community makes good he becomes the "model of possibility". He will perpetuate that model.
Not to say that a economically challenged kid in an alley playing stickball could not make it as they may have in the past, but with the current model of baseball economics, culture, development and exposure (college and pro coaches using the showcase system to a large extent) such a situation is difficult at best.
It is possible to reverse such trends but it's really swimming upstream.
I guess many of you folks never spent time in Oklahoma. The explanation from the coach was one he had to often employ when asked why he had a black on his Oklahoma team at all.
Why is it that it was accepted easily in Oklahoma? Is this the implication that OU is actually a racist institution that has been forced to followed integration mandates?
Whatever happened to having the common sense to not have used the interview and just been tactful in explaining to the coach that his remarks, though well intentioned were inappropriate?
Colleges and universities will have to start sending spokespeople to make any public statements or interviews to the press.
Why is it that it was accepted easily in Oklahoma? Is this the implication that OU is actually a racist institution that has been forced to followed integration mandates?
Whatever happened to having the common sense to not have used the interview and just been tactful in explaining to the coach that his remarks, though well intentioned were inappropriate?
Colleges and universities will have to start sending spokespeople to make any public statements or interviews to the press.
I dropped my son off at College for his freshman season Thursday. He plays football. Out of the 110 kids that are there for camp 30% are white. It costs 29,000 a year to attend this college in state tuition. Some are on scholarship alot are not. Is there going to be a study on why so many white kids are shifting away from college football? Are NFL players concerned with the numbers of white kids not playing pro ball. Are NFL exec's concerned with the numbers of white kids playing football at the college and pro level? Come on people. Enough of this. Baseball is a game that no matter how athletic or big you are you have to spend time developing the skills that allow you to have sucess. And sometimes this is not enough. When I coached football in HS I could take a fast athletic kid and bring him out to football and say "Son get in this gap and when the ball moves go through that gap and run down the ball". In one week I could have that kid making an impact on the field. Now lets take baseball. Do you think you can take a kid that has never played the game and hes 16 and put him on the field and he can play? I dont care if hes 6'3 200 and runs a 4.3. He is in real trouble. Its social , its demographic and its just the way it is. Baseball is boring to alot of kids. Baseball is not an instant gratification sport. It has nothing to do with a conspiracy to keep kids out of a sport in baseball no more than it is to keep kids out of football. The ones that want to play will play and the ones that do not will not play. How many kids really want to spend and hour on a T? How many kids really want to then spend an hour taking ground balls? How about long toss thats exciting as hell aint it? How about a three hour ball game where you get two fly balls hit to you and get up three times. Baseball is a game that you have to love to be good at. You have to love the whole experience. Watching , learning , developing etc. JMO
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Far too often the better man chooses another occupation while the coach Cochell's of the world proliferate.
Soxnole
I agree and I am personaly thankful that's not always the case.
I disagree with both of you on this one. In my experiences, networking and working professionally with coaches of several sports all over the country, there is a much higher percentage of bigots and racists in the stands, whether they be parents or other fans, than there are in the dugouts and sidelines coaching the athletes across the country.
observer44
As a Latin family this year our family has spent a lot of $ "directly" related baseball events, equipment, showcases, tournaments, season expenses, hotels bills, airfares, etc. But we consider it the price of the tickets to get to watch our son pitch. That's the way we look at it.
This year our son will be in his second year at the community college level. We have had a number of inquires about him but we have not been encouraging to any of them because we want our son to finish his AA Degree and move to the next level. If we have to pay the full tuition that's what we'll do. But we want our son to do it right with no shortcuts.
I believe this will be the definitive year for him. I would like to see him finish in the top 10% of pitchers at the community college level. But it is not up to me. A lot of things have to go right for him, like getting the innings to pitch, and having good outings.
If he does maybe he can get a scholarship, if not, we will see how things go and adjust according to the final outcome for next season...but we are not planning on him getting a free ride anywhere. Based upon our experience we know that his qualifications will have to be impeccable and his stats outstanding just to be considered.
As a Latin family this year our family has spent a lot of $ "directly" related baseball events, equipment, showcases, tournaments, season expenses, hotels bills, airfares, etc. But we consider it the price of the tickets to get to watch our son pitch. That's the way we look at it.
This year our son will be in his second year at the community college level. We have had a number of inquires about him but we have not been encouraging to any of them because we want our son to finish his AA Degree and move to the next level. If we have to pay the full tuition that's what we'll do. But we want our son to do it right with no shortcuts.
I believe this will be the definitive year for him. I would like to see him finish in the top 10% of pitchers at the community college level. But it is not up to me. A lot of things have to go right for him, like getting the innings to pitch, and having good outings.
If he does maybe he can get a scholarship, if not, we will see how things go and adjust according to the final outcome for next season...but we are not planning on him getting a free ride anywhere. Based upon our experience we know that his qualifications will have to be impeccable and his stats outstanding just to be considered.
quote:Whatever happened to having the common sense to not have used the interview and just been tactful in explaining to the coach that his remarks, though well intentioned were inappropriate?
You are kidding, right?
quote:I disagree with both of you on this one. In my experiences, networking and working professionally with coaches of several sports all over the country, there is a much higher percentage of bigots and racists in the stands, whether they be parents or other fans, than there are in the dugouts and sidelines coaching the athletes across the country.
Disagree with what? I never compared the percentage of bigots inside the fence to those outside.
All I said was I was happy with my sons coach.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:I disagree with both of you on this one. In my experiences, networking and working professionally with coaches of several sports all over the country, there is a much higher percentage of bigots and racists in the stands, whether they be parents or other fans, than there are in the dugouts and sidelines coaching the athletes across the country.
Disagree with what? I never compared the percentage of bigots inside the fence to those outside.
All I said was I was happy with my sons coach.
Dad04......I disagreed with soxnole's statement, the one that you agreed with. You mentioned not one word about your son's coach. If I misinterpreted what you said, then perhaps you should spell it out more specifically.
quote:I disagree with both of you on this one. In my experiences, networking and working professionally with coaches of several sports all over the country, there is a much higher percentage of bigots and racists in the stands, whether they be parents or other fans, than there are in the dugouts and sidelines coaching the athletes across the country.
I'll try to be more specific. I like my sons coaches.
There is bigotry everywhere. JMO, I feel bigotry inside the fence is more significant than outside the fence. I can separate myself from a bigot in the stands much easier than a player can separate himself from a bigot inside the fence.
FWIW, from what I've read here the percentages are pretty close.
Dad04....I can live with that!!