There is no doubt that coaches have been given new leveredge with the sit out rule. However the kids can still transfer to other divisions without sitting out 1 year.
If transfers were so common before, you have to ask WHY? The new rules do not change THE WHY? Therfore, one has to assume going forward that:
A)Transfers will still continue (but to other div's)
B)The kids that would have transfered under the new rule will stay and be unhappy.
C)The kids will not transfer and quit baseball
OR a combo of the above..
Thats what bugs me, If the NCAA really wanted to fix THE WHY then they would have stiffened the penalties for transfers rather than exclusively punish the student.
quote:CD asks how is this different from other sports where the transfer sit-out rule has been in effect for some time. The answer is, this rule previously applied only to football and basketball, where pretty much all scholarships are 100%. Whether you play or not, you get 100%. Therefore you don't see kids getting "pay cuts" year to year like you do in baseball. So again, you misunderstand me because I'm not talking about playing time, I'm talking about the scholarship money.
Football and basketball guarantee 100% for four years? or only as long as one remains on the team?
Football and basketball cannot cut players?
I still don't get what's wrong with transferring D1 to D1. Why does a player have to transfer "down" to another division or NAIA?
If a bank vice president loses his job, is he forced to find work elsewhere as a teller or wait a year before working again?
I know of a player who was recruited to a Big 12. Signed his NLI and that was that. Next thing you know, the entire coaching staff was gone and he arrived on campus where the new coaches didn't know him or any of the other players from Adam. Many, many players were told "You're not D1 material." FALSE. It was just the coach's way of running off those who didn't fit his mold. The player is now a highly successful player at a large program on the West Coast. If the new NCAA rules had been in place, this kid could not have gone on to enjoy success at another large program. What did he do to deserve that???
Another player I know has a new pitching coach this year who brought in some pitchers from his former school. This player is pitching maybe 1 inning per week in inter-squad scrimmages and it's becoming evident that things may not work out for him there, despite the fact that he's very accomplished. Again, why should he be penalized by being forced to transfer "down"?
It just doesn't make any sense to me...
If a bank vice president loses his job, is he forced to find work elsewhere as a teller or wait a year before working again?
I know of a player who was recruited to a Big 12. Signed his NLI and that was that. Next thing you know, the entire coaching staff was gone and he arrived on campus where the new coaches didn't know him or any of the other players from Adam. Many, many players were told "You're not D1 material." FALSE. It was just the coach's way of running off those who didn't fit his mold. The player is now a highly successful player at a large program on the West Coast. If the new NCAA rules had been in place, this kid could not have gone on to enjoy success at another large program. What did he do to deserve that???
Another player I know has a new pitching coach this year who brought in some pitchers from his former school. This player is pitching maybe 1 inning per week in inter-squad scrimmages and it's becoming evident that things may not work out for him there, despite the fact that he's very accomplished. Again, why should he be penalized by being forced to transfer "down"?
It just doesn't make any sense to me...
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Wow, you guys are really good at missing the point.
First of all, I'm not talking about playing time. I'm talking about a kid having his baseball money cut from one year to the next. I don't think anyone should come into a program thinking they're entitled to playing time. Playing time you have to earn. But if someone gives me 40% one year, then comes in over the summer and says "guess what, it's going to be 25% next year," I should be able to check into options without penalty.
And what if the coach now says, "I think you're worth maybe 15%, but the NCAA says I can't do that. You're not worth 25% to me, so you can stay for ZERO, or you can transfer if you like. But remember, you'll have to sit out a year." This is where we're headed, folks.
While I am not a fan of some of the hardships the NCAA rule changes will cause, I cannot agree with this analysis.
One thing every player and parent has to know is that athletic scholarships are renewable annually and there isn't a guarantee. In fact, the NCAA rules say a coach cannot give a scholarship or guarantee for more than one year.
That is true with most non athletic merit based scholarships also. For our son, he received a merit scholarship as a freshman but understood it could be changed annually and depended on his performing at a certain level academically.
For better or for worse, college baseball is a business and the players do not control the rules. It is even tougher at the next level.
There are schools and coaches where everyone should, IMO, approach with care and caution.
This is also a situation where times have changed.
But the rules have never been that there is an expectation of a scholarship at any level for the next year. That is true for many academic scholarships and has long been the rule for athletic.
I read this morning a stat on football. Said Nebraska had something like 50 or so top rated players on the "Rivals" projection. Kansas had 3.
Kansas just beat them 76-39.
That says several things to me. First, some coaches don't do their job. Second, some players don't do theirs. Third, projecting talent from high school to college is less than scientific.
To me, if a student has a merit scholarship and does not perform in the classroom, they lose that money.
Why should it be different in athletics.
I think CD is very correct. DI college coaches can be paid some pretty handsome salaries. Even if it isn't handsome, it is their livelihood. It they don't do their job, they answer to the AD and will be fired. DI college baseball is a business and we cannot want our sons to play at that level and not accept the business reality that is faced. When they get on the field in college baseball, there really isn't anything we can do to protect our sons. It is their play and production, along with the way they manage the academic and social responsibilities that control. We may not like it as parents, but I think CD is 100% correct: college baseball is based on skill, talent and, most importantly, production.
The place this isn't fair, as I see it, is the player who performs and performs well but ends up caught in the new NCAA numbers and either loses the scholarship or has it reduced for reasons other than performance. Hopefully, with time, the NCAA can do some remodeling to mitigate that issue.
infieldad, The transfer rule has nothing to due with the fact that baseball scholly's are for 1 year. Everyone knows that! Why does it keep getting brought up?
Infield dad your ramblings show you don't understand what Midlo is talking about. Thanks for the 101 on college BB.
I am dead against students transferring on their own whim. That had nothing to do with guys who are cut.
I am dead against students transferring on their own whim. That had nothing to do with guys who are cut.
BHD, actually, I do understand.
Parents want their player to have a DI scholarship. If the amount gets changed, they want their player to be able to transfer without penalty.
In my "ramblings," I was pointing out that parents do not have a voice in this.
These are your rules and your son had better produce.
If he doesn't, then the player and parent need to pick a program and coach where the business side and winning and being in Omaha isn't the emphasis.
Parents want their player to have a DI scholarship. If the amount gets changed, they want their player to be able to transfer without penalty.
In my "ramblings," I was pointing out that parents do not have a voice in this.
These are your rules and your son had better produce.
If he doesn't, then the player and parent need to pick a program and coach where the business side and winning and being in Omaha isn't the emphasis.
quote:If a bank vice president loses his job, is he forced to find work elsewhere as a teller or wait a year before working again?
Yes, if he can't hit or get anybody out
The situation where a kid gets cut by a new coach. with a different game plan is very troublesome. The new rules really hurts these kids, no fault of their own, just cut due to a new coach with a different plan.
quote:Originally posted by TripleDad:
The situation where a kid gets cut by a new coach. with a different game plan is very troublesome. The new rules really hurts these kids, no fault of their own, just cut due to a new coach with a different plan.
I agree this is troublesome.
On the other hand, I don't believe a new coach will cut players who can succeed and produce.
I sat with a coach this summer. He is in a highly visible program and charged with the job of resurrecting it to be competitive. He raved about number of great kids who were recruited by the former staff, who could not compete with the new recruits.
He loved those kids and was anguishing about what the new rules might require. But he had met with each of them, explained what was needed and expected, and each knew they were not going to play.
It is very unfortunate the new rules could impact both the coach and player.
While saying this, I wish the NCAA would evaluate coaches conduct. Oversight of the coaches on this process could be of great value because just as there are coaches of the type I talked with, I strongly believe there are coaches/programs who are ruthless.
For reasons I do not understand, even though I think the "ruthlessness" is pretty obvious, especially for one, some of those coaches have a very long list of top prospects commit every year, and I don't see that changing.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
BHD, actually, I do understand.
Parents want their player to have a DI scholarship. If the amount gets changed, they want their player to be able to transfer without penalty.
In my "ramblings," I was pointing out that parents do not have a voice in this.
These are your rules and your son had better produce.
If he doesn't, then the player and parent need to pick a program and coach where the business side and winning and being in Omaha isn't the emphasis.
quote:DI college baseball is a business and we cannot want our sons to play at that level and not accept the business reality that is faced.
I thought posters here said wait until the pro baseball because it is a business.
Is college baseball a revenue sport? You think the institution powers are glad they only have to fund 11.7 by rule so they can clean up at the gate??
Or is it a cheap feeder system for MLB ?? Where is there investment? Only for the few who bonus up, and the rest have to prove them wrong very quickly or its the scrap heap.
Some kid and his $2000 baseball grant, WANTED by a college coach deserves every opportunity to show his talents, or don't call him at all. Splitting up $150,000 over 35 kids while the world gets richer is bad business. Giving a full ride to a football jock who has no chance in heck of getting to the NFL and "giving back" while getting a basket weaving degree is non-sensical.
Giving a 4.8 student a free ride academically is nice, but is no guarantee to the institution that that kid will give back.
Baseball in college is not a revenue sport. It is a cheap feeder system. Just look at the draft each season, then look at the international FA signings.
WRONG ANSWER
I better clean up my act or I will got tossed
quote:Originally posted by TripleDad:
There is no doubt that coaches have been given new leveredge with the sit out rule. However the kids can still transfer to other divisions without sitting out 1 year.
If transfers were so common before, you have to ask WHY? The new rules do not change THE WHY? Therfore, one has to assume going forward that:
A)Transfers will still continue (but to other div's)
B)The kids that would have transfered under the new rule will stay and be unhappy.
C)The kids will not transfer and quit baseball
OR a combo of the above..
Thats what bugs me, If the NCAA really wanted to fix THE WHY then they would have stiffened the penalties for transfers rather than exclusively punish the student.
Good points, however, below is the message the NCAA has sent to both, to avoid tranfer situations.
Coaches do your homework, be honest, make sure that this is a player that you will be happy with (under all circumstances) will not be ignores and given an opportunity to fill a role on your team (in whatever capacity)so he will be happy and not want to leave.
Players, you too do your homework too, make sure this is where you want to be, and accept that you have to work your hardest to be able to contribute to your team and if perhaps there are those who win the start over you, you are wiling ot accept less playing time at that school then ayou might have gotten somewhere else.
Now don't get me wrong, I DO NOT agree with the one year sit out transfer rule for baseball when only given partial scholarships, but this was made to stop the revolving door that occurs at SOME (not all) programs.
0S8,
I do not disagree, but keep in mind that the BB working group has publicly stated they do not care for the MLB draft and their "work" has proved that. They want players who are more committed to being student athletes who works just as hard in teh classroom as on teh field and who are will to stay 4-5 years and earn their degree, not get by until their next draft year. Schools are not penalized for players who leave because of the draft, but penalized because a player feels he is not getting his due (and leaves) for a better opportunity to perform and be seen elsewhere.
The NCAA does not care about kids, they care about an equation that has variables that are skewed.
POLITICS
They are better served at dealing with the academic cheating that goes on in all sports, like recently at that maroon and gold school in FL.
POLITICS$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I guess basket weaving is a tough class
So much for integrity. Being naive', I would think a coach has more important things to do than masking the shortcomings of a recruit. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck????
POLITICS
They are better served at dealing with the academic cheating that goes on in all sports, like recently at that maroon and gold school in FL.
POLITICS$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I guess basket weaving is a tough class
So much for integrity. Being naive', I would think a coach has more important things to do than masking the shortcomings of a recruit. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck????
ROB-O Welcome, I can't say for sure, but I doubt even the most unscrupulous coach would resort to those tactics. He might get away with it once or twice but not habitual. There are too many ramifications, one being; the underclassmen will know what is happening and will make their own adjustments (ie transfer to other Div). The other, I can't imagine this approach sitting well with the AD.
Sounds like a good recipe for a talented team that doesn't get it done on the field!
Sounds like a good recipe for a talented team that doesn't get it done on the field!
I have been wattching this site and have learned alot from the many posters that write experiences and opinions on hsbbw. The question for you guys that concerns me the most is what happens to the starter that the coach knows is very happy and cuts his scholarship because he knows they don't want to sit out a year before they play again. Coaches now have all the cards ,50% player who is all conference before knew if coach took money he could go wherever he wanted so there was checks and balances, I see this as skewed now because coach can now use the new rules to get recruits and reduce or cut out upperclassmen scholarships. Coaches reputation is the only thing stopping this from happening now and this concerns me.
My prev. response is to LEX. you posted same question earlier inder diff. ID. 
sorry tripledad didn't realize my name was on other id when I first signed up. I agree this may not play good on field but have heard of this happening even before transfer rules changed.
quote:Coaches reputation is the only thing stopping this from happening now and this concerns me.
Lex - welcome to the hsbbweb.
The coach's reputation was the only thing that prevented him from doing this in the past imho. I don't see the nexus between the new rules and unethical conduct. All the unseedy coach had to do in the past was string the player along with false promises. You say threat of transfer prevented it but word gets around. I believe coaches who try and get one over on their players will see their program put in jeopardy - old or new rules. This whole thread is arguing over the last guys on the roster and that is a competitive issue imho. All conference players get their scholarships increased - not decreased. People should not assume coaches are out there to scr-ew them. Adequate research will let you know which programs to avoid and which ones can be trusted. The good news imho, is that most can be trusted. It is just like life. Not every Businessman, Doctor, or Lawyer etc. can be trusted but most of them can. Who wants to be known as dishonest - most people do not.
quote:Originally posted by LexBaseballeagle:
I have been wattching this site and have learned alot from the many posters that write experiences and opinions on hsbbw. The question for you guys that concerns me the most is what happens to the starter that the coach knows is very happy and cuts his scholarship because he knows they don't want to sit out a year before they play again. Coaches now have all the cards ,50% player who is all conference before knew if coach took money he could go wherever he wanted so there was checks and balances, I see this as skewed now because coach can now use the new rules to get recruits and reduce or cut out upperclassmen scholarships. Coaches reputation is the only thing stopping this from happening now and this concerns me.
Whoever you are,
Good coaches don't do the above.
The landscape has changed with these rules and I agree that coaches reps would be hurt over the long haul. There are a couple of SEC coaches that have had great programs that used that tactic with the old rules before their programs fell and they were released themselves. I just hope we don't hear of coaches abusing this new transfer rule and won't be surprised to see this come up.
The bottom line is simple.
Work backwards from the MVP of MLB to the All-Conference player in high school your son is/was.
The entire context of every post on every thread has to do with bridging that gap.
Everyone who disagrees is fooling themselves.
Work backwards from the MVP of MLB to the All-Conference player in high school your son is/was.
The entire context of every post on every thread has to do with bridging that gap.
Everyone who disagrees is fooling themselves.
quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
[QUOTE]DI college baseball is a business and we cannot want our sons to play at that level and not accept the business reality that is faced.
I thought posters here said wait until the pro baseball because it is a business.
OS8, I think you already know the answer.
When we talk about college baseball being a business, we are talking about it from the view of the AD and coaches. Nearly every DI program has expectations which will include revenues, dollar losses and wins.
When we view it from their perspective, it is a business. Many DI head coaches are married, with children, and fully dependent on their job to support their family.
DI coaches lose their jobs, usually, if they don't win. If you are the coach, that is serious business.
quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
The bottom line is simple.
Work backwards from the MVP of MLB to the All-Conference player in high school your son is/was.
The entire context of every post on every thread has to do with bridging that gap.
Everyone who disagrees is fooling themselves.
I have actually no clue what you are talking about.
.
OS8..
My thinking is litle different, and has been from day 1...
I added one more line to the equation...
Baseball is not the end....it is a means to an end.
"Everyone who disagrees is fooling themselves."
44
.
OS8..
My thinking is litle different, and has been from day 1...
I added one more line to the equation...
quote:Work backwards from...
A quality human being, father, citizen, friend, husband...consciously and purposely shaped by the life lessons (teamwork, fairplay, work ethic, time management, prioritizing, facing challenges, skill development...) learned in the forge of competitive baseball...
the MVP of MLB to the All-Conference player in high school your son is/was.
The entire context of every post on every thread has to do with bridging that gap.
Everyone who disagrees is fooling themselves
Baseball is not the end....it is a means to an end.
"Everyone who disagrees is fooling themselves."
44.
quote:BHD, actually, I do understand.
Parents want their player to have a DI scholarship. If the amount gets changed, they want their player to be able to transfer without penalty.
In my "ramblings," I was pointing out that parents do not have a voice in this.
These are your rules and your son had better produce.
If he doesn't, then the player and parent need to pick a program and coach where the business side and winning and being in Omaha isn't the emphasis
You say those are the rules. Well only because you allow them. I am not going to call coaches unethical or even suggest thyat they abues thye ru;es. I would even say some feel terrible cutting a good player who was good enough to be recruited. I am saying that the ball player should be allowed to leave without penalty when the coach says he doesn't have a spot for him. The player probably doesn't want to leave but he wants to play ball so he will leave probably even if he is penalized. In the past I have seen several guys cut who go on to start for another D1 school. This would be a mutually beneficial arrangement for coach and player. The penalty should not be there for the player if the coach releases the player and the only reason it is is to protect the schools APR and from stopping guys who want to go to another school because they have been offered a spot at a better school. The NCAA is under attack because of the low rate of graduation otherwise the existing transfer rules are just fine. Not perfect but more just.
The term business refers to the school but it is no way comparable to pro ball where the players get paid to play. College guys are first and foremost students. Some of these rules are draconian and I wonder if they would stand up to a court challenge?
"You say those are the rules. Well only because you allow them." 
"College guys are first and foremost students. Some of these rules are draconian and I wonder if they would stand up to a court challenge?"
BHD,
As parents, we have nothing to do with making the rules and nothing to do with allowing them.
You are posting like players, and parents, who receive a baseball scholarship have a "legal right" to play baseball and/or a "legal right" to a scholarship.
You take the position, on the one hand, that scholarship players are "first and foremost students." I think that is what the NCAA is saying.
Baseball players are first and foremost students and they have amongst the lowest graduations rates of all college athletes. So, they changed some rules to try and increase graduation rates. What is there to "sue" about?
As I said before, there is a school mentioned in this thread where, IMO, the coach should be questioned and have oversight on his methods and, what I perceive to be, his madness.
But, they are a national power and there are players and parents lined up at his door to accept any type of scholarship offer.
That unfortunately is likely to continue.
The place players and parents can make a difference is by realizing that having a DI scholarship is a privilege that is earned.
But they should not be blinded to the hardships it can create.
Parents and players can make a difference by not signing with college coaches and programs of the type I mention. That, more than anything will change the landscape.
In my view, the lure of DI and the fascination of big time college athletics won't permit that to happen. After all, how many times have I read on this site the "importance" of playing with the "big boys." This site in many ways is evidence of the lure and power of DI but there is always a "danger" when there is power.
"College guys are first and foremost students. Some of these rules are draconian and I wonder if they would stand up to a court challenge?"
BHD,
As parents, we have nothing to do with making the rules and nothing to do with allowing them.
You are posting like players, and parents, who receive a baseball scholarship have a "legal right" to play baseball and/or a "legal right" to a scholarship.
You take the position, on the one hand, that scholarship players are "first and foremost students." I think that is what the NCAA is saying.
Baseball players are first and foremost students and they have amongst the lowest graduations rates of all college athletes. So, they changed some rules to try and increase graduation rates. What is there to "sue" about?
As I said before, there is a school mentioned in this thread where, IMO, the coach should be questioned and have oversight on his methods and, what I perceive to be, his madness.
But, they are a national power and there are players and parents lined up at his door to accept any type of scholarship offer.
That unfortunately is likely to continue.
The place players and parents can make a difference is by realizing that having a DI scholarship is a privilege that is earned.
But they should not be blinded to the hardships it can create.
Parents and players can make a difference by not signing with college coaches and programs of the type I mention. That, more than anything will change the landscape.
In my view, the lure of DI and the fascination of big time college athletics won't permit that to happen. After all, how many times have I read on this site the "importance" of playing with the "big boys." This site in many ways is evidence of the lure and power of DI but there is always a "danger" when there is power.
Infielddad,
That was probably one of the best posts I have ever read on the HSBBW.
And I might add, very true.
That was probably one of the best posts I have ever read on the HSBBW.
And I might add, very true.
Infield dad the restriction of freedom to be allowed to chose may be s good reason to sue. After a semester a studnet may be in a position to move and I am not talking about scholarship guys who have BB money for the year. I am talking about the guys who didn't get BB money.
The Grad rate is due to players transfering partly and this may be an illegal infringment on their rights. Would make an interesting case.
That means I don't think that you have the right to play BB but the right to move to a different school and not be arbitrarily stopped from excercising that right just to bolster the schools GR.
The Grad rate is due to players transfering partly and this may be an illegal infringment on their rights. Would make an interesting case.
That means I don't think that you have the right to play BB but the right to move to a different school and not be arbitrarily stopped from excercising that right just to bolster the schools GR.
No one is preventing one from making another choice and transfering.
You just have to abide by the sit out rule, which is and has been in place for other sports.
You just have to abide by the sit out rule, which is and has been in place for other sports.
Has anybody ever thought the Reason there's a problem with Graduation rate's.
Maybe Player's can't afford to Pay the Cost of Continuing there Education, They can't afford to continue to attend on partial Scholly's.
Kick up the scholly rate.
And help these player's out.
JMHO
EH
Maybe Player's can't afford to Pay the Cost of Continuing there Education, They can't afford to continue to attend on partial Scholly's.
Kick up the scholly rate.
And help these player's out.
JMHO
EH
BHD,
The player has every opportunity to move.
The limitation is that if they move to a DI program, they cannot play for that team for one year. The SEC has had a rule in place for years that prevented transferring within the conference "without penalty." Same is true in DI basketball/football.
I think you are missing other potential obstacles to moving. What if you cannot get admitted to the school to which you wish to move? Is that also "impinging" on the right to move so we sue them too? 
What "right" is being infringed upon for the player? I still don't get it. There is a difference between precluding a transfer and permitting a transfer but impacting eligibility to play.
Since the player has no legal right to be admitted to a college, to attend a college, or to play baseball in college(I hope we agree on that), there isn't a legal right that exists or that is violated.
BHD, these rule changes mandate a player and his parents do everything they can do to explore a program and especially the coaches, before they accept that "ride" or opportunity to "walk on."
If players and parents do that, the coaches and programs who/which engage in the actions of the type that are of great concern to you, should end up suffering the consequences of their conduct.
The HSBBW can help that process.
Lawsuits won't.
The player has every opportunity to move.
The limitation is that if they move to a DI program, they cannot play for that team for one year. The SEC has had a rule in place for years that prevented transferring within the conference "without penalty." Same is true in DI basketball/football.
I think you are missing other potential obstacles to moving. What if you cannot get admitted to the school to which you wish to move? Is that also "impinging" on the right to move so we sue them too?
What "right" is being infringed upon for the player? I still don't get it. There is a difference between precluding a transfer and permitting a transfer but impacting eligibility to play.
Since the player has no legal right to be admitted to a college, to attend a college, or to play baseball in college(I hope we agree on that), there isn't a legal right that exists or that is violated.
BHD, these rule changes mandate a player and his parents do everything they can do to explore a program and especially the coaches, before they accept that "ride" or opportunity to "walk on."
If players and parents do that, the coaches and programs who/which engage in the actions of the type that are of great concern to you, should end up suffering the consequences of their conduct.
The HSBBW can help that process.
Lawsuits won't.
quote:The place players and parents can make a difference is by realizing that having a DI scholarship is a privilege that is earned.
Why do you keep making statements that everyone understands. It is also a priviledge to go to college etc but a student should have the right to make choices while honoring contracts. A scholarship as you poit out is for 1 year. The contract is for 1 year and you live with it however things turn out.
To be arbitraily restricted from make a choice may have constutional issues. Young men who are not scholarshiped with BB money should have the right to execise the freedom of choice. If they want to reflect grad rates properly reflect the transfers who go on to graduate or the students who drop out because they can't afford to continue.
You just showed how students can affect change by making their informed choice but does that mean that a student who has been cut, not under BB scholarship should suffer because he is cut. He should have the right to chose.
Any time a person mentions parents in a negative light it diminishes their argument in my mind.
Yes the transfer rule allowed players to play if the coach/AD released them. I thought that was fair in most cases.
quote:Originally posted by theEH:
Has anybody ever thought the Reason there's a problem with Graduation rate's.
Maybe Player's can't afford to Pay the Cost of Continuing there Education, They can't afford to continue to attend on partial Scholly's.
Kick up the scholly rate.
And help these player's out.
JMHO
EH
EH, there is a problem with that premise.
There is such a thing as DIII baseball where players do not get athletic aide/baseball aide.
Players matriculate and graduate at our son's former DIII school, and at many others, with higher graduation rates than the regular student body, upwards of 85%.
Many have loans/grants and obligations when they leave, but they have a degree and most get it in 4 or 4 1/2 years.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:quote:The place players and parents can make a difference is by realizing that having a DI scholarship is a privilege that is earned.
Why do you keep making statements that everyone understands.
Because it does not appear you understand.
I'll weigh in here on this ASU thing since I office literally down the road and counsel numerous people every year regarding the program. Midlo's avatar makes it real simple for me to connect the dots and see where his info is coming from.
I'm not an ASU alum and I won't get into a defense of ASU's recruiting practices. I know the staff and there are some very good dudes there. Whether their practices are unethical, as some in this thread claim, is a matter of opinion. I will simply state this: if you are going there to play baseball, and you think you will succeed in the program, you had better be one serious S.O.B. This is not a program that tolerates mediocrity. You can either play at an extremely high level, or they will recruit over you...period. The place is not for the faint at heart.
Lets remember something. There are 285 D1 baseball programs.The top 30 and the bottom 30 bear little resemblance to one another in terms of on field talent, and the effort and sacrifice required to play in these programs may vary greatly. ASU's baseball program is designed to produce serious players. As with anything in life...do your homework and know what you are getting into.
I'm not an ASU alum and I won't get into a defense of ASU's recruiting practices. I know the staff and there are some very good dudes there. Whether their practices are unethical, as some in this thread claim, is a matter of opinion. I will simply state this: if you are going there to play baseball, and you think you will succeed in the program, you had better be one serious S.O.B. This is not a program that tolerates mediocrity. You can either play at an extremely high level, or they will recruit over you...period. The place is not for the faint at heart.
Lets remember something. There are 285 D1 baseball programs.The top 30 and the bottom 30 bear little resemblance to one another in terms of on field talent, and the effort and sacrifice required to play in these programs may vary greatly. ASU's baseball program is designed to produce serious players. As with anything in life...do your homework and know what you are getting into.
Infield dad I already answered most of your questions that is why I wonder if you understand.
I am not talking about BB scholarshipped players. I don't believe in transferring but at the point the contract is over you should have the right of chioce. I would never support my son transferring unless he was cut. Never once did he consider transferring.
My feeling is that reasonable restriction such as the same confirence is reasonable.
I work in an industry that tries to force us to do theings and I have been very successful in challenging those issues. Some of the things are detrimental to our clients and more for our benefit and protection. Not in the best interest of the client.
I am not talking about BB scholarshipped players. I don't believe in transferring but at the point the contract is over you should have the right of chioce. I would never support my son transferring unless he was cut. Never once did he consider transferring.
My feeling is that reasonable restriction such as the same confirence is reasonable.
I work in an industry that tries to force us to do theings and I have been very successful in challenging those issues. Some of the things are detrimental to our clients and more for our benefit and protection. Not in the best interest of the client.
quote:You can either play at an extremely high level, or they will recruit over you...period. The place is not for the faint at heart.
BHD, as with most every other topic on this board, this is another one where we have polar opposite perspectives.
I am comfortable that there isn't a violation of a contract once the contract is over. If you aren't great.
I'll bet the sentence I quoted isn't very attractive either, but it is very much a hard reality and occurs with a lot of very good players, with more standing in line to replace them.
Rb I agree with most of what you said but you do under estimate the hard work of the bottom 30 put in. I know several who have gone to ASU. Currently Marcel Champignie and they are very talented but not the best I have seen.Tim Smith graduated last year and Ron Davises son I believe was drafted.
They are all good players but there are lots of good players out there.
I don't consider ASU as unethical but the guys who are cut should remain free to chose another college without sitting. You never know who will be ther to compete against you and I have seen up to 7 guys trying out for1 position. 2 will get the nod and 5 will be sent packing. I am not even against over recruiting if these guys can try to find another D1 to play at.
They are all good players but there are lots of good players out there.
I don't consider ASU as unethical but the guys who are cut should remain free to chose another college without sitting. You never know who will be ther to compete against you and I have seen up to 7 guys trying out for1 position. 2 will get the nod and 5 will be sent packing. I am not even against over recruiting if these guys can try to find another D1 to play at.
quote:am comfortable that there isn't a violation of a contract once the contract is over. If you aren't great.
Not talking about violation of a contract.
Also not talking about harsh realities whch I have warned many Canadians about.