Need Advice

It's not his HC he need's to worry about.
You never know who's watching and when there watching.
When your on the field or in the dugout, you are being watched.
You are enterviewing for a job everytime your on the field.
Just food for thought.
EH

I am not qualified to give advice. You can show him this:

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_pla...=bos&playerID=120903

Manny is a premier hitter who has struck out 1543 times in 7058 at bats (22%).

Thats baseball !!

Loaded with more failures than successes, so it is what they say "part of the game".

Remember, the other guy(pitcher) is pretty good also.

Very interesting situation, justaflmom. I guess maybe the coach figures if the equipment abuse takes place in the dugout instead of on the field, that's OK. You see major leaguers doing it all the time. Not saying it's OK or not OK - just an observation. I think everyone loses it every now and then. My son is very intense, and, although not normally a helmet or bat thrower, I can certainly see him reacting similarly in the same kind of pressure situation.

My son also seems never quite satisfied - but I think that's OK - he is driven. I keep telling him to work toward excellence, not perfection. Excellence can be attained. Perfection cannot. But he just does this:

I hope you get some responses from players and coaches. I would like to know what they think.

I have never once seen my son throw a bat, helmet, or any other piece of equipment during a baseball practice, game, or workout.

Not saying right or wrong. Just that he doesn't do it.

Carrying a bad plate appearance back onto the field or to your next at bat only decreases focus.

Sometimes you gotta tip your cap to the pitcher, remember how he got you out, and use it to your advantage in the next confrontation.

If it is not a habit, I wouldn't worry. Even the smoothest of competitors have flare ups sometimes.

As for the HS coach, there are a lot of ways to show competitive drive other than throwing bats...jeeze

Make sure your son knows this: one throw of the bat, at the wrong time, with the right guy watching, could hurt his baseball future.

Had to deal with a player in a NCAA Summer League who every time he struck out or pop up which was alot, he would tosss the bat and yelling 4 letter words to first base or back to the dugout. Everyone was wondering why he was playing in the first place he could not hit.

One of his college teammates finally had enough and told him loudly, shut your mouth, your embarrasing not only yourself but your college. Others players told people he had tourettes.

Anyways on a trip back from the game, I told My Bat thrower player, if you pulled this in pro ball you be sent home fast and highly unlikley that any collegiate league will go near you next year, you come across as a nut case that cant hit.

The player responsed he was having troubles at the plate because none of the (ivy league girls) were impressed he was a ball player and it was affecting his concentration at the plate. (YES He really said this)

quote:

Make sure your son knows this: one throw of the bat, at the wrong time, with the right guy watching, could hurt his baseball future.

I will go a step farther ... one throw of the bat at the wrong time can hurt ANOTHER PLAYER !!! Our son, leaving the mound after he fielded a pop-up bunt for the 3rd out of the inning, was hit in the head by the flying helmet that the batter 'tossed' in anger from 1st base. He was knocked out from the blow and suffered a mild concussion. People tried to make excuses for the batter, saying he was merely trying to toss his helmet into the dugout, but unfortunately ... he was standing on first and his team's dugout was on the 3rd baseline !!! Since he was the right fielder, he could have handed the helmet to his first base coach and waited for someone to bring him his glove.

Perhaps some players and/or coaches think equipment tossing is acceptable if limited to the dugout. Personally, I see no excuse for it at all. JMHO FWIW

Thanks for all of the replies.

FutureBack.Mom - I hope your son is okay! How scary!

Son is a very bright (sometimes scary smart) and I feel/worry (for whatever that's worth) that he may think he needs to adapt to 'show he cares'. I really don't want it to seem that it is acceptable because the coach put some value on it. TripleDad said it so well... jeeze! I understand his frustration with the K; he was #4 batter and previous at-bat was a double. Hasn't been a habit, so TD, I'll take your advice since I am the worrier/over thinker. I actually thought it was never an acceptable thing to do! I would like him to express his frustration or show he cares in a different manner. Any suggestions knowing the coaches view?

Your messages - you never know who's watching, sometimes you gotta just tip yor hat, remember and use it, excellence not perfection, wrong move and right guy can hurt your future, you could hurt someone (even unintentionally) - is the big picture and I'll have him read this.

He is a student-athlete wanting to play at the next level and character is such a big part of the picture. Better said... character is a big part of life whether you play the game or not. I guess this is partly why it has bothered me so much!

P.S. Being the over thinker... this took me forever to write!

I think sometimes coaches look the other way when this type of behavior is displayed in the dugout. I never feel this behavior should be displayed on the field or the dugout. IMO, go to the locker room to let it out. I think the difference is that coaches get more upset when the gesture is done in anger (throwing an object) that a gesture that is done in frustration (like kicking the dugout wall).

TPM -

It was done just outside the dugout.

Geesh, I messed up my post.

I should have said, I know it occured outside of the dugout. I know my son's HC coach allowed none of that outside the dugout, but inside was a bit more tolerated.

In case you didn't know, mine got caught in the dugout kicking the wall on TV. His coach told me later as long as it wasn't his right hand, his glove and it was inside he was given some leeway.

Let me just say this. I get very upset when I see a kid throw a bat or helmet. BUT!!! I get even more upset when I see a kid that never shows any emotion regardless of the situation. He K's No big deal. I will just go back to the dugout and chill. Sometimes kids get upset and they do something called "Act like they really care!" Why? Because they really care. The kid never throws his bat and always keeps his cool. And then it builds up and he lets out the emotion.

For me I like it in this situation. It lets me know the kid is mad as hel and he hates to fail. And he knows he shouldnt have done it but darn it he just did. I would take him behind the dugout and tell him "Hey you know thats not the way we do things. You know you were wrong. Now have you got it out of your system? Great. Get up there next time and knock the heck out of the baseball. Oh and by the way. It better not happen again.

There is a big difference in a spoiled brat that throws his bat everytime he gets out and a kid in this situation. A coach has to understand that. JMHO

Baseball to me is a very mental versus emotional game and I believe throwing bats, helmets, yelling profanity, and yes, evening saying, "My bad," has a residual effect.

Let's face it, baseball is a failure game and the sooner a baseball player learns to use failure as a learning opportunity for the next at-bat, fielding attempt, or pitch I believe he will carry it with him his next at-bat, fielding opportunity, or next batter he pitches too.

As a coach I used to purchase Coach Glenn Moore's "Handbook for Success" and give it to each of my players. It is an easy read, but he teaches what I consider the most powerful two words when we fail, "yes, but..." Basically you recognize your hiccup, yes I just struck out with the bases load then mentally uses it constructively, but...(I wasn't fooled and will get him next time, or on that pitch I need to go more off my back hip next time, or whatever...The opportunities are there, they just need to be factual and your brain will register them and interesting enough retain them in the same way they will retain failure.

Coach Glenn Moore has since given me the book and I still give it away for FREE.

May I suggest you, your son, and anyone else interested go to my website and download the PDF version of the book for FREE. My site is www.mostvaluableplayer.biz.

I am a big believer a baseball player has to learn to be his own coach and I believe learning to coach himself mentally versus beating himself up will help him improve physically in this game we love.

Thank you for the opportunity,

Al McCormick
www.mostvaluableplayer.biz

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Let me just say this. I get very upset when I see a kid throw a bat or helmet. BUT!!! I get even more upset when I see a kid that never shows any emotion regardless of the situation.

There is a huge difference between showing emotions and going ballistic.

Dealing with the "failure" aspect of baseball is to me, another tool.

You may strike out 3 times in a row, and not like it, without cracking your bat in frustration on your thigh(BoJ) or flinging helmets as long as you are prepared for the next at bat.

And I said it before, sometimes you tip your cap to the pitcher(Sizemore 0-5 against Beckett yesterday)

I imagine it's hard for these hormonal boys to not show their frustrations in some shape or form.

Another thing to point out: You are showing the other team they got to you! Or at least that is what they will think.

Like it or not players get mad at themselves and need to vent that frustration so they can focus back on their game.
Players need to deal with failure but they are not machines

anger management candidate
straight jacket
ump screwed me
I'm in a slump
I'll get you next time up
paralysis by analysis(hitting forum)
Just part of the game
nice pitch dude
gotcha

Our teams were taught to respect their equipment. Throw anything like a bat , helmet oor glove and you sit. I have seen players throw bats and almost take out their own players. I have sat with scouts who put a big slash through a players name that they were watching after thyey threw something in a fit of anger. It does not show intensity or desire but lack of self control. If they are allowed to get away with it once it will get worse. Some kids have more trouble controlling their emmotions but they have to be taught that it can hurt them and others on his team.
I watched a college game last night and it almost broke out into a riot. Police were called and had a presnce though the last 3-4 innings.
Every time a UMP called a strike/ball that they didn't agree with the whole team yelled insults at the UMP. I am sure they could call it from the 3rd base line duggout. The UMP warned they a few times but they continued. He tossed the Catcher and then one senior coach. Players and coaches were in the UMPs face and it looked like a mob scene. The other team behaved and grunted & groaned a bit on calls that they didn't agree with but never acted up.
This was all about discipline. The caoches failed to set behaviour standards and enforce them. The game was close and after that the well behaved team mercied the other team. There really is a good reason for discipline other than citizen of the year award.

Bobble what game was that? I think I heard about that happening.

Doc that was Brock vs McMaster in St Catharines. It was a near riot. This was the 1st game of the semi finals. If Brock wins tonight it is all over for Mac. If Mac wins it is back here on Sunday. It was a good game until Mac showed their lack of discipline. The UMP let it go to far. Had a few cop cars pull right in to the tunnel going into the stands. The coach that was ejected showed a huge lack of control and I was afraid he would have a stroke. I can't remember seeing a coach that upset.

Please do not misunderstand my focus on the mental side to be lack of emotion or even will to win. I am a big believer to get better as a player, or even as a team involves how you deal with failure.

Al McCormick
www.mostvaluableplayer.biz

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
Like it or not players get mad at themselves and need to vent that frustration so they can focus back on their game.
Players need to deal with failure but they are not machines

Thanks again for all of the replies. I would have posted sooner but we were gone all day!

You got me thinking about frustration vs anger. I have seen bats/helmets thrown in anger. Son's actions were done in frustration. He is human that will have his frustration boil to the surface at times. He really does care! Would've been good though, if he had been taken behind the dugout. Understanding this has been very helpful. Not so black and white on good and bad. And since this is not normally how he reacts, mom needs to chill out and stop over thinking. Beyond that he does need to be aware that unacceptable actions can have a BIG negative consequences depending in who is watching. And vice-versa.

I figure there is always something to learn. Some days are more character building days than others. Learn from our experiences and move forward. And boy, I'm learning a lot!

So, I guess I'll just relax and keep enjoying watching him 'play ball'.

Al - I did go to your website but couldn't find the handbook to download.

quote:

Originally posted by justaflmom:
Al - I did go to your website but couldn't find the handbook to download.

Clever marketing. You have to dig just a bit to get to this page. No big deal. I didn't fill out the survey, so I'm not getting the download.

If I may, I disagree most athletes are venting to show their desire to do the right thing, I believe it is more tied to they want to do well for their parents, the team, the coach and the fans at the game. I could present a case it is done for sympathy (Don't get mad at me I really wanted to do well, My Bad), but however a person wants to justify it, baseball is a mental game and I believe anger or frustration inserts a "Fear of Failure" file in their brain which is played back when the player is faced with the same situation again.

In fact, I argue the individuals, whether it be coaches and/or players who are emotional are much more predictable or robotic than ones who under control focus on what they need to do next time they are faced with that situation or pitch in the future versus dwelling on what their mistake was.

A pitching coach noticing a batters emotion after an ugly swing at a curve ball is very likely to have the pitcher throw another curve ball. A frustrated catcher after a dropped third strike allowing a runner to get to first is likely going to see the runner steal on the first pitch, with the result being a ball thrown to center. Emotion shown by a team throwing their gloves around into the dugout after giving up 5 runs in the first, frustrated or anger, I doubt they are ready to hit, much less realize if they keep the other team from scoring and score only one run per inning they win the game 7-5.

Something to consider,
Al McCormick
www.mostvaluableplayer.biz

Al, I think your comments are generally true, but there are always exceptions. One of my son's h.s. teammates was heard loudly uttering the "F" word on more than one occasion after striking out. (His father lost it a few times in the stands too. Both are extremely driven.) But this kid hit almost .500 for the season on a very good team that was ranked as high as 6th in the nation in the spring. I am in no way condoning his speech or actions, but I think that for him, his angry outbursts only spurred him on to do even better the next time he went up to bat.

I hear you, and agree there are exceptions to every rule.

I wonder? Let's say this individual is athletically a head of most high school players which allows him to get away with venting through frustration or anger. The question is will it catch up with him.

I was fortunate to coach a player who was very much the same way. Big time player through high school, and did quite well in college although I did start to notice a drop off. Meaning he starting having some "o-fer games" which he never did. He got drafted, but after two years he was back home.

This kid had everything going for him. He was left handed, ran a 6.4 sixty, gap type hitter, plus arm from the outfield, and was very smart on the base paths.

Obviously we will never know, but did he not go as far as he could have because the quality of pitching caught up, and may have even passed his athletic ability which was affected by his emotional approach to failure?

Al McCormick
www.mostvaluableplayer.biz

I was noted on another thread that the MLB pitcher in a play off game throw his glove down.We know it happens at every level.

They could easily get the F word out of college baseball: you say it; you get dumped for the rest of the game. It would go away overnite.
I'm sick of taking little kids to college games and hearing the F word on pop ups as the batter runs and curses his way to first base.
(not all schools are guilty, but many are)

I agree it happens at every level, in fact I would agree it happens in about every career field you can think of.

I just believe an individual has a greater chance of becoming better at whatever they do by controlling their emotions and assessing what they should do the next time they are faced with a similar situation. I also believe venting causes a player to question their abilities, and yes it may cause them to try harder, but I do not always believe it makes them try smarter.

Does it happen, yes. At the same time I can not believe it is one of the attributes to success.

Al McCormick
www.mostvaluableplayer.biz

quote:

I'm sick of taking little kids to college games and hearing the F word on pop ups as the batter runs and curses his way to first base.

I hear fans say this all the time. It may make them human but they are at the game wanting to see super stars and that means good examples for the kids as well as great ball players. swearing and bad behavior makes them look ordinary.

To become more consistently better, you have to recognize your weaknesses and improve upon them.

Sometimes, anger and frustration is the result of the player expecting to be successful every time the odds are against him. In baseball terms, they are at the start of an at bat.

Example:

First pitch fastball, hittable pitch is fouled back, or basically missed. Your baseball odds of a successful at bat diminish slightly. Pitcher throws a duece that is called strike 2. Now you are in the hole 0-2 and your chances of success diminsh even greater.

You swing at a pitch in protection mode, and pop out.

Batter throws a hissy fit. Where did it all go wrong? Is the batter upset from the original first strike on the foulback? Does he realize that missing that first hittable pitch happens to great hitters. Does he even acknowledge that the guy trying to get him out also has talent?

From my hitting experiences, I would think internally "dang, won't see that meatball again", then I would shorten up a tad and use whatever I could muster to identify what the next pitch would be, usually a curveball. Not guessing, just based on tendencies.

Good hitters watch very carefully when their teammates are at bat, they study the pitcher from the on deck circle looking for any advantage possible, in my opinion.

Sitting on the bench moping or mentally funked by brooding over that bad at bat compounds the issue.

If you have to vent anger and frustration, use your bat on the baseball the next time up. Some players have a hard time believing 3/10 is good in baseball.

Agree with Old Slugger. In fact I carry it one step further.

I ask kids, "how many pitches does it take to hit a baseball?" So if you are down two strikes, don't focus on the possibility of striking out, focus more on bat control and recognizing the pitch.

Interestingly enough some of my kids became better hitters with two strikes than they were the previous two because they seem to be more focused.

Al McCormick
www.mostvaluableplayer.biz

quote:

Interestingly enough some of my kids became better hitters with two strikes than they were the previous two because they seem to be more focused.

Or because pitchers serve one up.

Any college coach that allows foul language on the field during a game is a poor refelction of that coach.

As far as displaying frustration, it's not unusual for a player to show, it improves as he matures, that's a very big part of the process. Mine always wore his emotions on his sleeve, something that he has learned to improve.

IMO, being frustrated and having a hissy are two different set of circumstances and each should be dealt with accordingly.

The F-bombs and the like have no place on the field or otherwise, it shows a lack of intelligence i feel.My son also has come a long way in not showing his emotion on the bump. Tough lessons learned, but I feel he's a better player because of it. And when we see the helmet, bat, glove throwing not addressed it is a direct reflection of that team or organization. I think all our kids want to do well out there and put enough pressure on themsleves. I try and get them to focus that energy and some of that emotion into a better approach next time.

.
I'll take a little different tact...

Observatons...

First....Care and patience in emotional moments for all. As a parent or coach I always prefer to wait overnight or at least a few hours before making much in the way of constructive or critical comments, particularly ones I feel strongly about. In the heat of the moment, or just afterwards, players and parents will often say overexaggerated things that they don't really mean based on the high emotion of the moment rather than logic and sense...or reality.

Second...It takes all kinds. Low emotion guys and high emotion guys. Coaches are looking for a producive emotional state regardless. For some it's keeping them calmer. For some its amping them up that is needed for optimum performance. My calm oldest played basketball as well as baseball through HS and the coaches were constantly trying to get him amped up. The first time he slugged the padding under the basket they cheered. Not beacsue of the action, but the emotion shown. Never was repeated but they felt they freed up some ability that way. On the flipside, I am constantly trying to get my athletes to get rid of all the mental garbage and focus all energies to the accomplishement of the task.

Third...I always wait to see if any problem is an temporary abhhoration or a pattern before assessing it. Sports is a very emotional activity, with the investment involved (Emotion, time...) most every player has moments of high emotion when they cross the line. Negative patterns I break. Such emotional moments I do not condone, but I understand and softly address. I also like this...from TPM...

quote:

being frustrated and having a hissy are two different set of circumstances

Four...If this thing is really encoraged teamwide, condoned, visible and up front as it seems then I am sure that the school will be addressing it soon.

44
.

OB you are right, you need all different types to have a successful team. Many coaches look for this is recruiting, who will be the quiet steady one, who will be the cheerleader, who will be the rock steady guy and who will add some spark by doing wild things to motivate. Lot goes into mixing personalities that will work toward a common goal.

Sometimes a player has to let it out to move forward. I have had to replace a few cell phones for that very purpose.