New/Legal Bats for 2011....

Go to http://www.nfhs.org/baseball.aspx. From there, you can jump around and review the rules changes concerning bats, as well review the grandfathered composite bats (http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155).

The list of NCAA approved bats: http://m-5.eng.uml.edu/umlbrc/ncaa_certified_bats.asp. Hope this helps.

P.S. Go here and see the last paragraph that describes what to look for with regards to HS bats: http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/D...adAsset.aspx?id=4311

Gracias

The VHSL has banned all composite bats from competition in 2011 because they do not meet the letter of the rule accepted for this year by the NFHS.

quote:

Originally posted by Go Dawgs:
The VHSL has banned all composite bats from competition in 2011 because they do not meet the letter of the rule accepted for this year by the NFHS.

Do you have a link from VHSL?

I have an email exchange with a representative from the NFHS and then I forwarded that to Tom Dolan of the VHSL for clarification after my sons coach told him all composite bats were banned this year (see below with my personal info redacted). Of course, with email you have to start at the bottom.


From: tdolan@vhsl.org [mailto:tdolan@vhsl.org]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 6:07 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Bat Question

The bats the NFHS has waived will not be legal in VHSL contests this year because they do not meet the letter of the rule accepted for this year by the NFHS.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________
From:
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:44:57 -0500
To: <tdolan@vhsl.org>
Subject: Bat Question

Mr. Dolan,

I’m receiving mixed signals concerning the composite bat ban at the High School level. The email below from the NFHS indicates that the bat my son uses will be legal for the upcoming Spring season only. However, his High School coach told him that the VHSL is banning all composite bats beginning the upcoming spring season. If there is any guidance you could provide concerning his specific bat the 2010 DeMarini CF4 would be greatly appreciated Thanks very much.

From: Elliot Hopkins [mailto:EHopkins@nfhs.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:34 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Bat Question

Mr. ,
The CF4 will only be permitted this spring season due to the fact we will be mandating the Batted-Ball Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR) performance standard beginning January 1, 2012. The NCAA has already adopted this standard for this spring.

From:
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 5:46 PM
To: Elliot Hopkins
Subject: Bat Question

My son uses a 2010 DeMarini CF4 (CFB10). I'm pretty sure his bat is eligible for use during the upcoming 2011 season. The link on your website dated 11/12/2010 seems to indicate that it may be eligible beyond the 2011 season because it is on the UMLBRC “NCAA 2011+ Seasons” list. Am I interpreting this correctly? Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Go Dawgs:
The VHSL has banned all composite bats from competition in 2011 because they do not meet the letter of the rule accepted for this year by the NFHS.

I attended a camp earlier this Fall at Radford University and the coaches said that composite bats were legal for this year for High School play. So I'm a bit confused of the rule now.

quote:

Originally posted by lebanonbb:

quote:

Originally posted by Go Dawgs:
The VHSL has banned all composite bats from competition in 2011 because they do not meet the letter of the rule accepted for this year by the NFHS.

I attended a camp earlier this Fall at Radford University and the coaches said that composite bats were legal for this year for High School play. So I'm a bit confused of the rule now.

See my post above. I went directly to Tom Dolan from the VHSL. As you can see he responded quickly and left little room for interpretation.

Go Dawgs, He may have left little room for interpretation but he certain is contradicting what was sent out by the VHSL less than 2 months ago. Sounds like they need to get their act together. I will print all of this thread and communicate with Mr. Dolan. Here is the email sent out by the VHSL (with the to: line deleted):

-----Original Message-----
date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:33:17 +0000
from: "Mike McCall" <mmccall@vhsl.org>
subject: RE: SCHOOL ADVISORY - NFHS Composite Bat Rule Change



School Advisory ATTENTION: Principals, athletic/activities directors, baseball coaches, softball coaches


NFHS Composite Bat Rule Change

The NFHS has moved the compliance date for composite baseball bat changes forward from 2011-2012 to 2010-2011. This means that any composite baseball bat used during the 2010-2011school year must:
- meet the Batted Ball Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR).
- be labeled with a silkscreen or other permanent certification mark.
- have the certification mark that is rectangular, a minimum of a half-inch on each side and located on the barrel of the bat in any contrasting color.

This rule does not pertain to BESR Aluminum Bats nor does it pertain to Softball.

Questions regarding this issue should be directed to Tom Dolan tdolan@vhsl.org or 434 977-8475.


Mike McCall, Information and Communications Specialist
Virginia High School League
1642 State Farm Boulevard, Charlottesville, VA 22911
434-977-8475 Fax 434-977-5943
Email: mmccall@vhsl.org

WB, I'm certainly confused now, which was the reason I went directly to Mr. Dolan about the DeMarini CF4 specifically after my sons coach told him today it was illegal for the coming season. That bat is on the NFHS site as being approved for use in the 2010-2011 season.

I think the interpretation that reconciles both emails is that not ALL composite bats are banned (and that Go Dawg's son's high school coach is not correct). Mr. McCall's email clearly indicates that composite bats meeting certain critera may be used. However, there are composite bats not meeting those criteria detailed in Mr. McCall's email that are being exempted in the 2011 season by the NFHS if, through testing, the manufacturers of those bats can show certain features (all of which is detailed at the NFHS's web site.) I think it is those composite bats which Mr. Dolan is saying will not be exempted in Virginia.

I have sent both email strings to Mr. Dolan for clarification.

Go Dawgs,

Does the bat which you reference:

1. Meet the Batted Ball Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR)?

2. Is it be labeled with a silkscreen or other permanent certification mark?

3. Have the certification mark that is rectangular, a minimum of a half-inch on each side and located on the barrel of the bat in any contrasting color?

That bat might be one of the ones that the manufacturers have shown meet certain criteria. From the VHSL perspective, they may not want to have to worry about "looking it up" but instead just want to see markings on the bat.

Of course, it would be nice for the parents to just be able to look it up, particularly for bats previously owned.

This whole bat issue is a mess.

Go Dawgs,

Maybe your son's coach said no composite bats whatsoever because he did not want to have to determine which were legal. I understand that in the college ranks this past year, the coaches were asked to certify that all their bats were legal at the home plate meeting with umpires. The onus was placed upon the coach. It will be interesting to see how it is handled with VHSL games.

Wood bats are legal. Maybe they just all should go to wood.

with the new bat requirements, are there any guesses on what this means to batting averages and ERAs ? BA's 10% lower, slugging percentage down, fewer HRs, etc...lower ERAs...i think it will be interesting to compare this year or next to last year and see how much of a negative it is for batting.

jvhs.......There was definitely a power shortage in the college games this fall with the new bats. Looks to be a transition from the long ball to manufacturing runs and doing the little things even better.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:

quote:

Originally posted by Go Dawgs:
The VHSL has banned all composite bats from competition in 2011 because they do not meet the letter of the rule accepted for this year by the NFHS.

Do you have a link from VHSL?

http://www.vhsl.org/news/1022101287759090_news.html

Interesting to note, according to a long-time bat dealer, there are only 2 states which are not following the NFHS exceptions in 2011 for certain composite bats passing certain tests. Those states are Kentucky and . . . you guessed it, Virginia.

....the NFHS are exempting bats for this year and VA decides to not follow that guideline......My sons' bat - DeMarini VTB10 is not useable for this HS season, correct. Is there just a list somewhere provided by VHSL?

I'm not sure what "exemptions" means - NFHS has changed (surprise) their timeline again, while VHSL has kept the same restrictions...

Anyway, here's the VHSL link:
VHSL Bat Rules

quote:

Originally posted by Jess1:
I'm not sure what "exemptions" means - NFHS has changed (surprise) their timeline again, while VHSL has kept the same restrictions...

Anyway, here's the VHSL link:
VHSL Bat Rules

I thought that the timeline for both NFHS and VHSL was ORIGINALLY January 1, 2012. Thus, hasn't VHSL also changed its timeline? The problem is that folks were aware the change was coming in 2012. Parents of juniors last year purchased bats expecting their players to be able to use them for 2 years. Now those same parents are having to buy bats again. (As far as I know, the schools do not supply them.) And bats are not a $10 item.

Well... sort of. No offense to any party, but to me, the NFHS has done a poor job of communicating.
Quote:
"The NFHS has banned hollow composite bats unless they remain BESR-compliant after undergoing the Accelerated Break-In (ABI) protocol. The ABI is intended to confirm that as such bats break-in, their performance does not improve beyond the BESR ball exit speed limit. For the 2010-2011 academic school year, and through December 31, 2011, the following types of bats are legal:"

Unfortunately, no one seems to know exactly what "through December 31, 2011" means - and U of M Lowell has now condensed their tested bat list to "2010" and "2011 +".

Confused yet? Welcome to the club.

I thought I had a handle on the bat regs but then it just got very confusing.

Speaking only of composites, first I thought they banned them completely. Then I thought they eased that up and said if they meet the Accelerated Break In procedure and were BESR, they could be used. What a nightmare that would be for the umps trying to police.

Now it is my understanding that the only composites that will be allowed for this coming spring season and beyond will need to be stamped with the BBCOR marking.

http://www.vhsl.org/news/1022101287759090_news.html

Finally, starting in 2012, ALL bats (metal and composite) must be stamped with the BBCOR rating?

Am I missing anything?

That's how I understood it, but now I can't find anything definite from either NFHS or VHSL on non composite, non wood after 2011...

Since my son has had the bat BEFORE all of the new stamping requirements were implemented, how do you REALLY KNOW if it is a legal bat or not. We bought it last summer, thinking it would be legal for his JR year and require a new one for SR year. Since they only last about a year (or like this one, he grew), this worked. Depending on what VHSL is doing, his bat should be legal this year (based on the UofM) link on the NFHS website. What happens if you usean illegal bat in a game. Where is that defined for VHSL

quote:

Originally posted by vhs_02_2012:
Since my son has had the bat BEFORE all of the new stamping requirements were implemented, how do you REALLY KNOW if it is a legal bat or not.

By definition, it is not legal if it is composite and does not have the markings described at the VHSL web site mentioned a few times in this thread.

Part of the email response I received from Mr. Dolan with VHSL (the person to whom bat questions are to be addressed):

"Our message has been clear since July. . .

BBCOR certified composite bats will be legal for this school year.
BESR certified bats with an aluminum or aluminum alloy barrel will be legal for this school year but not next year.
The VHSL WILL NOT honor any bat waivers from the NFHS regarding composite BESR bats for the 2010-2011 school year."

I am going to show my ignorance here, but oh well.....My son's bat says -3 BESR. Does that qualify under the following guidelines from VHSL......"This rule does not pertain to BESR Aluminum Bats nor does it pertain to Softball"....Is it as simple as if it is BESR rated and aluminum or aluminum alloy it is ok?

quote:

What happens if you usean illegal bat in a game

Well, unless there's a new ruling, "illegal" equipment will be disallowed prior to the game. If it's discovered in use during the game, it will be removed, but any play as a result of that use will stand...

No offense to Mr. Dolan, but that paragraph is as clear as aluminum foil...

quote:

Part of the email response I received from Mr. Dolan with VHSL (the person to whom bat questions are to be addressed):

"Our message has been clear since July. . .

BBCOR certified composite bats will be legal for this school year.
BESR certified bats with an aluminum or aluminum alloy barrel will be legal for this school year but not next year.
The VHSL WILL NOT honor any bat waivers from the NFHS regarding composite BESR bats for the 2010-2011 school year."

Other than banning composite bats all together, there really is no other way to enforce the composite bat issue. I think the VHSL is taking the right approach to this issue but that is just me.

The entity that seems to be confusing things is the NFHS with their changes.

Jess1, this does look like a very recent change in the rules.

The the penalty for using a composit bat that doesn't carry the BBCOR stamp is severe. Ejection from the game and suspended for two more.

56-1-3 (Baseball) Pregame Equipment Inspection-It is the responsibility of member schools to verify
that any equipment used by a player meets the quality and technical inspection standards dictated by NFHS and
VHSL rule. While the NFHS rule book requires the umpires to check equipment before the game the burden for
compliance rests with the member school. Student/athletes who participate using illegal equipment shall be
ejected from that game and suspended for the next two games.

http://www.vhsl.org/files/ec-h...ts-2010-december.pdf


I was getting ready to call foul on Mr Dolan's remarks until I ran across this article. It does a great job of explaining how we got to the point we are at and again, I think the VHSL is doing the right thing with their stance.

http://www.goochlandgazette.co...might_be_on_parents/

"The the penalty for using a composit bat that doesn't carry the BBCOR stamp is severe. Ejection from the game and suspended for two more"

It's my understanding that recommendation is not yet established as a rule for 2011.. yet. Will probably happen somewhere around Feb. 21

quote:

It's my understanding that recommendation is not yet established as a rule for 2011.. yet. Will probably happen somewhere around Feb. 21

Appreciate the clarification Jess1.

You know, I peeked into another thread on the hitting forum about the new bats. It talked about the stamps on todays bats vs what might be deemed "legal" next year.

Now I am confused again.

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...91034941/m/547101905

This is referring to California but I wonder if it will also apply here in Va?

At this point, I can't come up with a good reason why anyone (HS players) would purchase a BBCOR composite bat...unless the bat makers can somehow produce a more balanced bat using that material but that is way beyond my non engineering mental capacity.

1bd,
Right with you. FWIW, every time I try to sort this out my eyes glaze over & all I can see is the word "Fiasco"...

I have sent an email to Mr Dolan directly asking for clarification. I like the tool the NFHS league has that you can check your bat against. If VA is going to NOT use those guidelines(making the list ineffective for us), then I told Mr Dolan VHSL needs to provide a similiar tool for VA. Let's just get to the bottom of it and VHSL should just make a list.

quote:

Originally posted by vhs_02_2012:
I have sent an email to Mr Dolan directly asking for clarification. I like the tool the NFHS league has that you can check your bat against. If VA is going to NOT use those guidelines(making the list ineffective for us), then I told Mr Dolan VHSL needs to provide a similiar tool for VA. Let's just get to the bottom of it and VHSL should just make a list.

My bet is that Mr. Dolan will tell you that no secondary source (i.e, a list) is needed, that all you need to do is look at the primary source (i.e., the bat) and if it is a composite bat, it must:

"1) meet the Batted Ball Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR);

2) be labeled with a silkscreen or other permanent certification mark;

3) and have the certification mark that is rectangular, a minimum of a half-inch on each side and located on the barrel of the bat in any contrasting color."

Actually, that is pretty clear. And I bet that most folks will have to acquire new bats.

On a slightly different note, can someone confirm why high schools went away from wooden bats? I had always thought it was a cost issue, that wooden bats would break and that the total cost of wooden bats would be more than the total cost of metal bats. However, I recently was told by someone, with a good baseball history, that high school went away from wooden bats because of a safety issue, that the breaking / flying wood created safety risks. If that is the case, why are wooden bats listed as a permitted bat for high school baseball?

quote:

You know, I peeked into another thread on the hitting forum about the new bats. It talked about the stamps on todays bats vs what might be deemed "legal" next year. . . .
This is referring to California but I wonder if it will also apply here in Va?

At this point, I can't come up with a good reason why anyone (HS players) would purchase a BBCOR composite bat... . . .

Both isseus would be good questions to ask Mr. Dolan.

Now, if as you suggest, the HS players should not purchase a composite bat for 2011 (because it might not be legal in 2012), can't use their composite bats they already own (at least in Va and Ky because they would not have the BBCOR markings on them), don't already own a BESR aluminum bat (and would not want to purchase one this year because the BESR aluminum bats won't be legal in 2012), what are they supposed to use - wood?

I tried one more time to make sense of this.

I THINK, if I read this correctly, the "sticker issue" isn't really even an issue, or at least it shouldn't be. The NFHS BBCOR rule reads as follows...

e. Beginning January 1, 2012, all bats not made of a single piece of wood shall meet the Batted Ball Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR) performance standard, and such bats shall be labeled with a silkscreen or other permanent certification mark. The certification mark shall be rectangular, a minimum of a half-inch on each side and located on the barrel of the bat in any contrasting color. Aluminum and composite bats shall be labeled as approved tamper evident, and be marked as to being aluminum or composite. This marking shall be silkscreen or other permanent certification mark, a minimum of one-half-inch on each side and located on the barrel of the bat in any contrasting color.

f. An aluminum bat meeting the standards of 1-3-2(e) is legal immediately.

g. A composite bat shall be illegal until meeting the standards of 1-3-2(e).


According to this, it must have that "tamper" sticker in place to be legal today (BBCOR legal) so I don't know what the fuss is unless it somehow points back to that NFHS list of non BBCOR bats approved for use this year in California.

I think California screwed up by going all BBCOR this year and it is going to be a nightmare trying to police the standards as well as a nightmare for parents buying bats. VERY glad we don’t have to deal with that decision.

The more I read about all this, the more I am starting to applaud Mr. Dolan for the stance they took on composite and BBCOR. I am also right back to not being sure why anyone would want to purchase a composite bat from this point forward...especially a $400.00 one.

One more year with the metal BESR bat and we will cross the BBCOR bridge next year...

quote:

And I bet that most folks will have to acquire new bats

Which is why bat makers aren't fussing @ this... too much.

As to Mr. Dolan's info, he (or VHSL) haven't yet confirmed that "composite" means "composite barrel only" or "any part of the bat being composite".

FWIW, it's shameful that the various parties can't sort this out.

quote:

As to Mr. Dolan's info, he (or VHSL) haven't yet confirmed that "composite" means "composite barrel only" or "any part of the bat being composite".

Rule 1-3-2 through 5 paragraph b item 3 reads as follows,

"Barrel. The barrel is the area intended for contact with the pitch. The barrel shall be round, cylindrically symmetric and smooth. The barrel may be aluminum, wood or composite (made of two or more materials). The type of bat (wood, aluminum or composite) shall be determined by the composition of the barrel."

I'm no expert, but the way I read the last sentence the make up of the barrel determines the type of bat. So a metal barrel bat with composite handle should be legal in 2011....... I think

You can find the rule changes for 2011 here, http://www.nfhs.org/baseball.aspx

The NFHS bat rules are one thing (and somewhat clear), but the differences between NHSF & VHSL rules seem to be confusing the issue even more...

What I'd like to see is rule simplification, for example:

"in 2011, a bat w/composite barrel must have BBCOR label".
In 2012, all non wood bats must have BBCOR label."

Easy, simple, straightforward. Of course, I'm not a lawyer...