Nine year old banned from youth league for using N word

We had a kid in our league who had asbergers.   He was a handful.  Friend had him on his team and things got a little harry when he told racial jokes to the minority kid on the team.  But it was all handled appropriately.  

Kid learned it somewhere. I'd be more inclined to ban the parents. 

Please explain what good would come from hiring a lawyer.  Are you talking about addressing the issue as it relates to this individual kid or helping correct the "system" for the next kid?

I don't agree with the length of the ban, but based on the program's actions, the kid is not going to be welcomed, even if he gets a court order saying he must be placed back on the roster immediately.  I guess in the meantime he can get a court to stay the ban so he can finish out the season.  The case probably wouldn't be heard until after next season anyhow.  Perhaps they could negotiate some type of settlement or pursue mediation.  I'm sure the volunteer coaches would love having to meet with the lawyers to have explained what little Johnny's rights are from this day forward - if I went this route I'd certainly fight for some guaranteed playing time to get included - maybe mandate that all his teammates have to attend his birthday party also since most of the other parents won't want anything to do with the kid going forward after this ends up in the court system.

Sorry for the sarcasm overload.  I would have made the kid send the apology to the team along with an apology from the kid's parents to the other parents.  If they did not offer up the apologies, then the ban would go into effect.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Please explain what good would come from hiring a lawyer.  Are you talking about addressing the issue as it relates to this individual kid or helping correct the "system" for the next kid?

I don't agree with the length of the ban, but based on the program's actions, the kid is not going to be welcomed, even if he gets a court order saying he must be placed back on the roster immediately.  I guess in the meantime he can get a court to stay the ban so he can finish out the season.  The case probably wouldn't be heard until after next season anyhow.  Perhaps they could negotiate some type of settlement or pursue mediation.  I'm sure the volunteer coaches would love having to meet with the lawyers to have explained what little Johnny's rights are from this day forward - if I went this route I'd certainly fight for some guaranteed playing time to get included - maybe mandate that all his teammates have to attend his birthday party also since most of the other parents won't want anything to do with the kid going forward after this ends up in the court system.

Sorry for the sarcasm overload.  I would have made the kid send the apology to the team along with an apology from the kid's parents to the other parents.  If they did not offer up the apologies, then the ban would go into effect.

Your solution is better than the actions taken. Getting a lawyer would have the league back off the suspension and ban. They would be forced to come up with a better solution. Nine year olds aren’t inherently racist. They’re only repeating something they’ve heard. It’s a fixable situation. Shame on any adult who believes the solution is to take it out on the kid rather than redirect him. 

As a coach I once helped a kid I was warned to stay away from. I selected him for my team. I redirected the intensity he used for lashing out at the world towards being a successful student and athlete. 

My bad.  Perhaps a quite call from a respected lawyer asking that they reconsider could help in reaching a better solution.  I guess I just pictured some overbearing, loud mouthed screamer telling the volunteer league president that his clients are going to end up owning the ball field when all is said and done.

Difficult to comment without knowing more but as IronHorse stated, parents are more then likely complicit. As I have learned over the years working with high school students, the apple usually does not fall far from the tree. In situations that I witnessed where student were just being rebellious, the parents were typically still making mistake of not communicating effectively with their child. In this case, I like the recommendation of child and parent apologies with some type of playing time punishment. If parents and/or child refuse to apologize, I have no problem with the harshest of penalties!

A great reminder for us all to make sure we are having courageous conversations with our children about race, equality, etc.

I am with Ironhorse.  Hate, bigotry, racism, name calling, etc is learned.  I am thankful that he was heard at this age using a horrendous word.  This is the exact time to intervene and teach this kid something right.  I think it is lazy on the board to ban him.  They need to assign a coach, mentor or someone to teach them why it is not appropriate.  A lot of kids may be learning new words and cuss words, throwing them out there and dont really understand the hurt or meaning behind them.   Division creates even more tensions, as we are seeing on a national platform of racism.  Understand, talk, and love is the way through it.

While it could be, don't necessarily assume it's from the parent.  Could be from the playground as well - kids say stuff all the time.  

Agree with all said but the other thing I'd like to know is ... the rest of the story.  i.e. - was there another offense that would have possibly made this the last straw?  

Golfman25 posted:

While it could be, don't necessarily assume it's from the parent.  Could be from the playground as well - kids say stuff all the time.  

This is true.  When my son was 9, he used a bad word at the dinner table.  He called his younger brother a d*@$#^bag.  My wife and I were shocked... we put down our forks and said "son, that's a bad word".  He burst into tears.  He had no idea the word was one we considered a bad word and completely inappropriate for him to use.  He most assuredly did not learn this word at home.

Always intriguing how these evolve.

Personally, I would tend to focus first on the young 9 year old who heard a white 9 year old refer to him as a N..... I can only wonder in amazement how his parents explain the term and support him.

Most everything else would be somewhat secondary but the 9 year old who learned and used that term, apparently ,in  a way which caused the game to end and his team to send a letter of apology would be a focus.

From a newspaper summary, I tend to think it is awfully premature to be suggesting lawyers get involved or anyone, as a coach, can solve whatever issues led the 9 year old to use that term against an opponent on a field of competition.  There are plenty of options where it was learned, none of which are contained in the link to the article. I certainly do not see any rationale to excuse, or explain away, the use from the information in the link.  Seems like  a group of folks in both teams and in that league had considerable information (more than the article discloses). Maybe we defer to them making an informed decision on more facts that are in a short summary?????.

cabbagedad posted:

Agree with all said but the other thing I'd like to know is ... the rest of the story.  i.e. - was there another offense that would have possibly made this the last straw?  

I agree, the story is short on much info. Absolutely no background. Hard to make an informed decision based on this story.

My oldest found out about the Santa hoax through friends at school. His first curse word may have been taught by me, but NYC traffic and its drivers can test even Mother/Saint Teresa's patience so sometimes it is not always the parents.

ironhorse posted:

Kid learned it somewhere. I'd be more inclined to ban the parents. 

Agree. The parents have no control of their 9 year old.  

Golfman25 posted:

While it could be, don't necessarily assume it's from the parent.  Could be from the playground as well - kids say stuff all the time.  

You're right. It's definitely possible it's from another kid who learned it at home. I'm just used to seeing ignorance learned and tolerated at home. 

If it was from the playground and not the parents, I would hope the parents would stand behind the ban to teach the kid the right lesson.

Parents need to teach our boys to fight back from early on.   

And then, yesterday, there is this...  a 10 y.o. boy steals his mother's car, kicks and spits at highway patrolmen when they finally catch him and this is the second time in a week he has done something similar.

http://myfox8.com/2017/10/27/t...-on-a-joyride-again/

At first glance, and reading some versions, it's easy to immediately say "major problem child".  But this particular news report makes mention of him being bounced a bit between separated mom and dad's home and the first incident involving his mom's boyfriend's car...  hmmmm, couldn't be major home issues, could there?

And to lighten things up a bit...

This did happen in the Cleveland area...  could be just another understandably frustrated Tribe fan.

infielddad posted:

Personally, I would tend to focus first on the young 9 year old who heard a white 9 year old refer to him as a N..... I can only wonder in amazement how his parents explain the term and support him. 

This seems to me where we should focus. If the person who said the word — at any age — is allowed back into the league, what message does that send to this child? The other guy gets to say what he wants, and if he apologizes, then no harm, no foul? That seems to me like a rough message to send a 9-year-old who is the actual victim in this situation.

I couldnt disagree with the others more, on the kid getting banned because he called another player the N word. I cant and wont ever accept racism! The kid learned it from his parents or siblings, but he LEARNED it and used it.  He chose to call another 9 year old a word so offensive and degrading that he has to banned. What about the kid that got called the N word? What did he do to deserve this? Too much thought and empathy towards the kid who chose to verbalize the hate and discrimination that he learned at home.  This kid viciously chose hateful words to try and demean, degrade, and divide him from the others on his team. I would want the kid banned and before he was allowed to play the kid and his parents should apologize to the kid, the parents, and the teammates who had to witness this. They are the ones I care most about. 

I, as the kids parent, would be too embarassed to hire an attorney to argue that my 9 year old should play a game that fosters inclusion when his actions and words say otherwise. Who knows, maybe the parents arent racist and they are  shocked and embarrassed by their kids outburst. Hopefully they can help him so that he doesnt feel this way toward other people who don't  look like him. A teaching opportunity that shouldnt be wasted...

There's definitely an age where you start banning kids for behavior like this.  I don't think it's nine years old, though.  

nxt lvl posted:

I couldnt disagree with the others more, on the kid getting banned because he called another player the N word. I cant and wont ever accept racism! The kid learned it from his parents or siblings, but he LEARNED it and used it.  He chose to call another 9 year old a word so offensive and degrading that he has to banned. What about the kid that got called the N word? What did he do to deserve this? Too much thought and empathy towards the kid who chose to verbalize the hate and discrimination that he learned at home.  This kid viciously chose hateful words to try and demean, degrade, and divide him from the others on his team. I would want the kid banned and before he was allowed to play the kid and his parents should apologize to the kid, the parents, and the teammates who had to witness this. They are the ones I care most about. 

I, as the kids parent, would be too embarassed to hire an attorney to argue that my 9 year old should play a game that fosters inclusion when his actions and words say otherwise. Who knows, maybe the parents arent racist and they are  shocked and embarrassed by their kids outburst. Hopefully they can help him so that he doesnt feel this way toward other people who don't  look like him. A teaching opportunity that shouldnt be wasted...

So...... if my kid calls the Native American kid that’s playing SS a no good Redskin, I guess we all have a good laugh and forget what hypocrites we are?

nxt lvl posted:

I couldnt disagree with the others more, on the kid getting banned because he called another player the N word. I cant and wont ever accept racism! The kid learned it from his parents or siblings, but he LEARNED it and used it.  He chose to call another 9 year old a word so offensive and degrading that he has to banned. What about the kid that got called the N word? What did he do to deserve this? Too much thought and empathy towards the kid who chose to verbalize the hate and discrimination that he learned at home.  This kid viciously chose hateful words to try and demean, degrade, and divide him from the others on his team. I would want the kid banned and before he was allowed to play the kid and his parents should apologize to the kid, the parents, and the teammates who had to witness this. They are the ones I care most about. 

I, as the kids parent, would be too embarassed to hire an attorney to argue that my 9 year old should play a game that fosters inclusion when his actions and words say otherwise. Who knows, maybe the parents arent racist and they are  shocked and embarrassed by their kids outburst. Hopefully they can help him so that he doesnt feel this way toward other people who don't  look like him. A teaching opportunity that shouldnt be wasted...

You seem to know a lot about the intent of the nine year old and the nature of his heart. Do you know him? Were you there?

Kids learn from the adults around them. It's a shame. 

There isnt enough information to make a fair judgement on the situation. The 9 year old was wrong, but I always believe when kids are involved, the situation should become a teaching moment. You sit both teams down and discuss why you don't say certain words that are hateful. But that's the problem with the world that we live in right now. 

By the way, what should happen to Gurriel? His jester was inexcusable as was his comment. Obviously he didn't think anyone was watching, BUT THEY WERE. 

Should he be banned from the game for the rest of the game and all next year? 

Keep in mind this is an adult.

And we wonder why kids say the things that they do!

The kid is NINE, they do and say dumb things. Should we put an X on his forehead, or banish the family, or bulldoze their home. This new concept of some words being worse than others is crazy, as kids we lived by the “sticks and stones” rule. 

We were at the park while kids were playing basketball and EVERY OTHER word coming from the black players was a variation of Niger. “My momma you suck N”, “N you bang me again Imma kill you N”. My son and I left.

Finally,LOL..... what about the Redskins you SJWs, here is a pro sports franchise with a RACIST name or the Indians whose mascot is a HUMAN BEING. If this stuff bothers you direct your fire at those institutions. I know it’s easy to pick on a nine year old, but grow a pair and go after the big boys. Done.

I know that what I am about to say will probably be unpopular,  however, so be it. First I admit I am a upper middle aged white male, raised in a middle class family within a nuclear family. My parents were together until my mothers death a quite a few years ago. I have been married for 31 years. We have raised 3 boys in a middle class neighborhood. I never completed my college degree but worked retail for 18 years in the grocery industry. I worked my way up from Bag Boy to a Store Manager. I leftnthat position to start over in IT. Again I started as a Help Desk and worked my way up to my current position as a consultant at a large national company and considered an expert in the mobile space.

I want people to understand my background in lightnof my next comments.

What the nine year old said was terrible and it was racist. However we have no background. Had this youngster had previous issues. Is this the first time. Does he understand. The word. Is it possible he was coerced by others to usebthis word? We have to trust in the adults involve and hopefully they did the right thing, just as Fenway said. 

As fornthe youngsternthis slur was directed to. I feel for the youngster. However does he understand the word and the connotations that go with it? 

What do we want to teach both kids? We want to teach tolerance. Does a no tolerance punishment make both of victims? If the punishment does not fit the crime, the kid being punished, may resent rather than learn. This just continues to breed intolerance. Do we want to teach the child that was the target of the slur that they areba victim?

I know what I was taught. Don't let the Bully know they got to you. That gives them power over you. Do we really want these types of words to continue to have power over our young people? Yes it is a terrible word. With a terrible history. No that word should not be used against others. I was also taught the power of forgiveness. My Grandmother never cared about what was innthe hearts of others,  but our own actions. And in her family we forgave those who wronged us. Do we want ournyoung people to think they are victims, not to know the power of forgiveness. Then power of being sorry for your actions, because they were wrong. And not sorry just because of a punishment? Do we want words to continue to hold power over our young people. Do we want them to learn to be sad, mad or victimized, because what they were called.

I understand with my background Incan never understand what some people have gone through. I understand how blessed I am to have had the parents I have had, and the family I have had. I will never know how it feels to have that word used against me. However somethings are universal. We want all our children to be happy and strong. I am not sure some of the decisions made today are helping our children in that direction. 

At that age, I flipped my dad off: palms down, horizontally.

I thought the gesture was simply a fake cannon of civil war vintage. I learned the gesture on the elementary school bus I took home that day. One kid started it. Soon all the boys were aiming the one finger salute at each other, playing war, ducking up and down behind the seat backs. The girls just looked at us, mildly annoyed.

My dad simply told me it wasn’t nice.  I asked why?  I learned a lot that day. 

We need more context here, I think.

Nonamedad posted:

The kid is NINE, they do and say dumb things. Should we put an X on his forehead, or banish the family, or bulldoze their home. This new concept of some words being worse than others is crazy, as kids we lived by the “sticks and stones” rule. 

We were at the park while kids were playing basketball and EVERY OTHER word coming from the black players was a variation of Niger. “My momma you suck N”, “N you bang me again Imma kill you N”. My son and I left.

Finally,LOL..... what about the Redskins you SJWs, here is a pro sports franchise with a RACIST name or the Indians whose mascot is a HUMAN BEING. If this stuff bothers you direct your fire at those institutions. I know it’s easy to pick on a nine year old, but grow a pair and go after the big boys. Done.

 

 

Apologies in advance for this lengthy post.  

Could you kindly not use the SJW acronym to refer to people on the board or people in general?  I'll make my case why:  First, acronyms that define people based on their common beliefs or traits are inherently dehumanizing.  Step one for any despot throughout history is to identify your enemy or scapegoat; rename him - thereby robbing him of some humanity; and then, eliminate him when advantageous to do so.  TO BE CLEAR - I'm not suggesting you or any of the amazing people on this board have anything to do with the facts of that last sentence.  However, from Myanmar to Zimbabwe to Hungary governments are engaging in this practice today to the detriment of Rohingya Muslims, Afrikaaner farmers and North African and Turkish immigrants, respectively.  It's creeping into our culture as well on the right AND the left.  I give the same lectures to my liberal friends when they call current US officials "Nazis."  Untrue, unfair, and useless with respect to debate and progress.

The SJW one is particularly galling to me because it seeks to mock something that, frankly, should be a goal of everyone in this country.  The debate shouldn't be whether social justice is a good thing; but rather on what the best methods are to achieve the most just society.  That's a great American debate - shall we get there via a New Deal or should we let market forces build a Shining City on a Hill?  That's what our politics used to be about. 

Carry on, and go 'Stros.

OskiSD posted:

Nonamedad posted:

The kid is NINE, they do and say dumb things. Should we put an X on his forehead, or banish the family, or bulldoze their home. This new concept of some words being worse than others is crazy, as kids we lived by the “sticks and stones” rule. 

We were at the park while kids were playing basketball and EVERY OTHER word coming from the black players was a variation of Niger. “My momma you suck N”, “N you bang me again Imma kill you N”. My son and I left.

Finally,LOL..... what about the Redskins you SJWs, here is a pro sports franchise with a RACIST name or the Indians whose mascot is a HUMAN BEING. If this stuff bothers you direct your fire at those institutions. I know it’s easy to pick on a nine year old, but grow a pair and go after the big boys. Done.

 

 

Apologies in advance for this lengthy post.  

Could you kindly not use the SJW acronym to refer to people on the board or people in general?  I'll make my case why:  First, acronyms that define people based on their common beliefs or traits are inherently dehumanizing.  Step one for any despot throughout history is to identify your enemy or scapegoat; rename him - thereby robbing him of some humanity; and then, eliminate him when advantageous to do so.  TO BE CLEAR - I'm not suggesting you or any of the amazing people on this board have anything to do with the facts of that last sentence.  However, from Myanmar to Zimbabwe to Hungary governments are engaging in this practice today to the detriment of Rohingya Muslims, Afrikaaner farmers and North African and Turkish immigrants, respectively.  It's creeping into our culture as well on the right AND the left.  I give the same lectures to my liberal friends when they call current US officials "Nazis."  Untrue, unfair, and useless with respect to debate and progress.

 

The SJW one is particularly galling to me because it seeks to mock something that, frankly, should be a goal of everyone in this country.  The debate shouldn't be whether social justice is a good thing; but rather on what the best methods are to achieve the most just society.  That's a great American debate - shall we get there via a New Deal or should we let market forces build a Shining City on a Hill?  That's what our politics used to be about. 

Carry on, and go 'Stros.

I’m trying to mock SJWs.

Nonamedad posted:

OskiSD posted:

Nonamedad posted:

The kid is NINE, they do and say dumb things. Should we put an X on his forehead, or banish the family, or bulldoze their home. This new concept of some words being worse than others is crazy, as kids we lived by the “sticks and stones” rule. 

We were at the park while kids were playing basketball and EVERY OTHER word coming from the black players was a variation of Niger. “My momma you suck N”, “N you bang me again Imma kill you N”. My son and I left.

Finally,LOL..... what about the Redskins you SJWs, here is a pro sports franchise with a RACIST name or the Indians whose mascot is a HUMAN BEING. If this stuff bothers you direct your fire at those institutions. I know it’s easy to pick on a nine year old, but grow a pair and go after the big boys. Done.

 

 

Apologies in advance for this lengthy post.  

Could you kindly not use the SJW acronym to refer to people on the board or people in general?  I'll make my case why:  First, acronyms that define people based on their common beliefs or traits are inherently dehumanizing.  Step one for any despot throughout history is to identify your enemy or scapegoat; rename him - thereby robbing him of some humanity; and then, eliminate him when advantageous to do so.  TO BE CLEAR - I'm not suggesting you or any of the amazing people on this board have anything to do with the facts of that last sentence.  However, from Myanmar to Zimbabwe to Hungary governments are engaging in this practice today to the detriment of Rohingya Muslims, Afrikaaner farmers and North African and Turkish immigrants, respectively.  It's creeping into our culture as well on the right AND the left.  I give the same lectures to my liberal friends when they call current US officials "Nazis."  Untrue, unfair, and useless with respect to debate and progress.

 

The SJW one is particularly galling to me because it seeks to mock something that, frankly, should be a goal of everyone in this country.  The debate shouldn't be whether social justice is a good thing; but rather on what the best methods are to achieve the most just society.  That's a great American debate - shall we get there via a New Deal or should we let market forces build a Shining City on a Hill?  That's what our politics used to be about. 

Carry on, and go 'Stros.

I’m trying to mock SJWs.

I know.  Gently trying to suggest you and we not do so.  Peace to you and go Stros.  

Last night Gurriel directed a gesture towards Darvish that is offensive to Asians. He’s an adult. He should know better. Should he be banned from baseball?

The problem is too many people live on the edge of anger trying to find ways to be offended. Gurriel said he will seek out Darvish and apologize. If this is good enough for professionals who should know better why isn’t it good enough for kids who probably don’t know better. 

Sure, the kid situation will be more involved. Adults will need to be Involved. But what the difference between Gurriel’s actions and this nine year olds?

Gurriel suspended for five games without pay next season.  I think that's about right.  the $ hit is appropriate, though not sure how much that will actually work out to be.  Might be better if he just misses one paycheck, whatever that adds up to. 

Young children didn't invent the word. I doubt the normal nine year old even understands the word.  He should be taught rather than banned. 

I remember back when I was around that age I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood.  We had a black kid move in and we became friends, mostly because of sports.  I used to call him chocolate drop and he never showed that it bothered him.  I never thought it was mean or demeaning back then.  I just didn't know any better and he was a close friend.  I was taught that the N word was something you never say and I have never used that word.

Then after getting a bit older it got confusing.  First the appropriate word was Negro, as in the Negro Leagues.  Then maybe it was colored, then black, then African American.  Then people started calling themselves nigga and it was even used in music.  Seems like all this stuff just leads to more confusion.  Especially when you want to show respect and refer to people appropriately in a way they appreciate. Then again when it comes to race, we all have so much in common, both good and bad, that I don't understand why there has to be words used in describing races.  When I see a person that is an A hole, I'm likely to call him an A hole.  I don't really care what color he or she is or what race they are.  Because there are more white people than others, I knew more white A Holes than I do others.

Anyway, I can see a nine year old saying the N word without even understanding the hatred associated with the word.  Not saying that was the case here, but I don't see how banning him will solve anything.  I wish racism would end during my life time, but that won't happen.  Though over a long period of time I have seen progress, but I'm afraid hatred will never end.  Maybe it is that old one person at a time of all races figuring things out. That should be what is taught to the nine year olds.

Seems to be an awful lot of empathy toward the kid who called another kid the N word rather than the kid who got called the N word.....Some even view the kid who got banned for a year as the only victim (I think they are both victims).......What did the kid  do to deserve being called the N word? (rhetorical question) After all, he is just a 9 year old kid too.

Put yourself in his shoes. Or his parents shoes.They just want to put it behind them. Nobody wins here.

I remember back when I was around that age I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood. We had a black kid move in and we became friends, mostly because of sports. I used to call him chocolate drop and he never showed that it bothered him. I never thought it was mean or demeaning back then. I just didn't know any better and he was a close friend.

I had a friend on my LL team (60’s) who was a dead ringer for Buckwheat from Our Gang. No one thought anything of it. I moved away. I ran into him twenty years later on the street. He was a cop. His name plate said “Buck.” I commented. He laughed and said the name stuck with him into adulthood. I can’t imagine there will be any more kids nicknamed Buckwheat.

nxt lvl posted:

Seems to be an awful lot of empathy toward the kid who called another kid the N word rather than the kid who got called the N word.....Some even view the kid who got banned for a year as the only victim (I think they are both victims).......What did the kid  do to deserve being called the N word? (rhetorical question) After all, he is just a 9 year old kid too.

Put yourself in his shoes. Or his parents shoes.They just want to put it behind them. Nobody wins here.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, tough to have empathy for a nine year old // sarc. 

I would hate to be that kid, you are told that one word above all others is so terrible that if you utter it you will be banished and shamed by adults who seem oblivious to the ongoing black on black violence happening daily in Chicago and Baltimore. The citizens of Baltimore will make their third attempt at a “Noboby kill anybody “ weekend, residents are hopeful. 

If the SJWs feel good about shaming a nine year old about a word while bullets fly in our cities.... I feel ashamed for them.

he probably heard it in a rap song or a movie.  

Leaving this thread for good, but let me just say that there is NO connection between crime rates in Chicago or any other city and a 9-year old boy saying that word.   That word doesn't make me think about Chicago.  I don't see the relationship. 

Perhaps that's because I was raised in an extended family who used that word from time to time with respect to their hometown of Oakland, CA.  I learned that such leaps of logic were a) wrong, and b) told me more about what was in their hearts than it told me about Oakland.  

I'm in favor of that kid getting banned.  No place in this world for words of hatred.  Let him be an example.  Too bad for him

meant to add:  if my Kid ever used that word, he wouldn't need a league to ban him, I'd ban him myself, take away his phone and TV time and he'd get real good at mowing the lawn, painting the deck, cleaning the garage and fixing the roof all summer long... no sympathy