Nine year old banned from youth league for using N word

RJM posted:

http://www.bostonherald.com/ne...team_for_racist_slur

Obviously the use of the word is inappropriate. But do you kick a 9yo off the team and ban him for the following year? I believe it’s a gutless use of no tolerance rules. A nine year old needs to be straightened out not banned. Pull him off the field and talk to him. Bench him for a game and make him watch from the sidelines. Explain what happens if there’s a next time. Explain what could happen when he gets older. But you don’t take the game away from young kids and put them in a position to hang out. Part of being a youth coach is helping kids grow. This nine year old needs help.

Obviously I would feel different if this were a high school kid. But even then being banned through next year is excessive. The family needs to get a lawyer. 

I agree.  It should be used as a teaching situation.

so how about it if the kid was actually black and he was talking like he hears and see's comedians, actors, rappers talk to their friends?

so how about it if.....we end this thread?

I am with RJM on this one. Use this as a way to teach the kids. 9 years old. Be careful you don't reinforce the negative by trying to enforce positive. Do you think this 9 year old kid will be known as the racist kid who was kicked out of the league at 9? Will it be a life sentence in that community? Something doesn't feel right about punishing a 9 year old kid this harshly for something he said. Educate him. Or hell maybe he should be locked up in prison for a couple of years and really teach him how to hate.

We have an entire segment of society that serves a life sentence. And we can't understand why they don't "get it together." They are called convicts. They are put in prison and learn how to be better convicts from the more experienced convicts. They serve their time get out and can't get a job because they are convicts. They are outcast and looked down upon. And we can't understand why they don't "get it together."

So now were going to take a 9 year old kid and teach him. Were going to make him an outcast. Ban him from the league. Let him know just how sorry and worthless he really is. Make sure we remind him when he's in middle school just who he is. Make sure that no one forgets who he is when he's in High School. Yeah that's the kid. Yeah those are the parents. I wonder how much hate this kid will have bottled up inside of him by the time he's 15? Like when he is nominated for the Home Coming Court but then the secret comes out? Oh some will say he deserves to be outed at 17. See there are consequences.

Come on man he's 9 years old. He still plays with GI Joe's. He heard a word that he knows bothers people so when he gets really angry that's what he does. Can we educate him? Can we show him something different? Can we show some compassion? Can we show some freaking common sense? Where are we heading with this type of mentality?

And before the parents are labeled racist because the fact is we have no idea who they are. You better be careful. You have no idea what your child is capable of saying in the heat of the moment. Maybe he gets called a Cracker so many times he simply lashes out? Does that make it right? Of course not. So use these moments to teach and educate and yes show compassion and common sense. This wasn't a college player this was a freaking 9 year old kid. Have you listened to any of the music out there today? Have you heard some of the conversations that HS aged kids have today? When your not around?

Is the use of that word reprehensible, disgusting, egregious? Is the use of that word by a 9 year old cause for concern or by anyone? Of course. So shouldn't the goal be to educate and use the situation to open communication and dialogue so kids can learn? It's so easy to throw a person away these days. It's so easy to fix everything with the sacrificial lamb syndrome. The problem is it doesn't fix a thing. It only breeds hate and division and closes down dialogue.

Let me finish this by saying I detest the word. I detest what it stands for. I have removed myself from situations in my life because individuals felt it wasn't a problem to use it. I make no bones about the fact I will not tolerate it. But I also believe in saving people and educating people not throwing them away. Especially those who are not even old enough to understand truly what they are saying and what it actually means. I apologize if this post offends anyone. I tried very hard to let this once pass without comment. I guess I just couldn't do it.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

so how about it if.....we end this thread?

Second.

A kid that young doesn't understand the severity of that word compared to racial slurs against other groups.  If it was a different race, a different word, it wouldn't be looked at with such shock.  Not that some words are worse than others, but our perception of the N word is way off the scale.  ie if that guy from the Astros used the N word instead of making "chinese eyes" he could've been banned for the entire WS and most people wouldn't say that it's excessive if not too lenient.  Point is, a 9 year old kid doesn't know the difference.  He doesn't know what he's getting into by uttering the N word, even if it's loud where all the coaches and people in the stands can hear him.  Is he racist?  Absolutely.  Does he have anger/control issues?  Absolutely.  But is he just plain evil and can't be saved?  C'mon, he's 9.  

I actually think it is good to talk about these things.  Not saying we can solve any problems here, but race issues need to be discussed.  I think it is in the best interest of all concerned.  We have come a long ways, and there is still a long ways to go.  JMO

Race issues are complicated and touchy and when folks start making proclamations about about "black on black crime" in Chicago and Baltimore, then maybe it's time to keep our focus here on baseball.

Seems like this has taken a turn for the better, but this thread, if it should survive, should be about how parents (basically "us") can do a better job in raising our kids as well as doing a better job helping guide/encourage others.  For instance, assume you are the league president and you are told some kid spit on an opposing team player - twice.  This simplifies the discussion to "bad behavior" and "response" and would remove the lightning rod.  Some parents would "ban the kid" and others would say "teaching moment".

To being to opine exactly how a 9 year old, who is a hypothetical 9 year old that none of us know, grasps the significance of that word is simply foolish.  To do so on a high school baseball website is more foolish.  I think folks have outlined the spectrum of that kid's understanding of that word from "heard it on the playground" up through "parents to blame".  Regardless, I am quite certain he does not fully grasp its significance.  If he does, he needs to be pulled off the football field and put in a "highly gifted" fast track to Harvard.  Thinking that is so advanced at that age should be nurtured.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Seems like this has taken a turn for the better, but this thread, if it should survive, should be about how parents (basically "us") can do a better job in raising our kids as well as doing a better job helping guide/encourage others.  For instance, assume you are the league president and you are told some kid spit on an opposing team player - twice.  This simplifies the discussion to "bad behavior" and "response" and would remove the lightning rod.  Some parents would "ban the kid" and others would say "teaching moment".

To being to opine exactly how a 9 year old, who is a hypothetical 9 year old that none of us know, grasps the significance of that word is simply foolish.  To do so on a high school baseball website is more foolish.  I think folks have outlined the spectrum of that kid's understanding of that word from "heard it on the playground" up through "parents to blame".  Regardless, I am quite certain he does not fully grasp its significance.  If he does, he needs to be pulled off the football field and put in a "highly gifted" fast track to Harvard.  Thinking that is so advanced at that age should be nurtured.

A painful memory that will hopefully frame this discussion in the context of hope:

When I was seven, I had a dispute with a classmate who happened to be Jewish.  He lied about an incident in class and fingered me.  I called him a liar to his face, and then - knowing he was Jewish - made the awful mistake of calling him a "Jewish liar."  I didn't know why that was such an awful epithet.  I was throwing stuff against the wall in an effort to hurt him emotionally.  Kids do that.

I was removed from the class and talked to by the teacher and a counselor.  No suspension but I gathered very quickly even as a little kid that I had crossed a line.  I formally apologized to him and to his family in person and wrote a letter about what I had learned. 

The boy and I wound up being very good friends, maybe even best friends in jr. high.  

And later this year my 2022 catcher will be called to the Torah as a bar mitzvah and I will link arms with my Jewish wife and family and sing the Sh'ma with a (Padres) yarmulke on my head.  Just saying. Things can change and I hope this little boy learns what I learned.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Seems like this has taken a turn for the better, but this thread, if it should survive, should be about how parents (basically "us") can do a better job in raising our kids as well as doing a better job helping guide/encourage others.  For instance, assume you are the league president and you are told some kid spit on an opposing team player - twice.  This simplifies the discussion to "bad behavior" and "response" and would remove the lightning rod.  Some parents would "ban the kid" and others would say "teaching moment".

To being to opine exactly how a 9 year old, who is a hypothetical 9 year old that none of us know, grasps the significance of that word is simply foolish.  To do so on a high school baseball website is more foolish.  I think folks have outlined the spectrum of that kid's understanding of that word from "heard it on the playground" up through "parents to blame".  Regardless, I am quite certain he does not fully grasp its significance.  If he does, he needs to be pulled off the football field and put in a "highly gifted" fast track to Harvard.  Thinking that is so advanced at that age should be nurtured.

Good post

OskiSD posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Seems like this has taken a turn for the better, but this thread, if it should survive, should be about how parents (basically "us") can do a better job in raising our kids as well as doing a better job helping guide/encourage others.  For instance, assume you are the league president and you are told some kid spit on an opposing team player - twice.  This simplifies the discussion to "bad behavior" and "response" and would remove the lightning rod.  Some parents would "ban the kid" and others would say "teaching moment".

To being to opine exactly how a 9 year old, who is a hypothetical 9 year old that none of us know, grasps the significance of that word is simply foolish.  To do so on a high school baseball website is more foolish.  I think folks have outlined the spectrum of that kid's understanding of that word from "heard it on the playground" up through "parents to blame".  Regardless, I am quite certain he does not fully grasp its significance.  If he does, he needs to be pulled off the football field and put in a "highly gifted" fast track to Harvard.  Thinking that is so advanced at that age should be nurtured.

A painful memory that will hopefully frame this discussion in the context of hope:

When I was seven, I had a dispute with a classmate who happened to be Jewish.  He lied about an incident in class and fingered me.  I called him a liar to his face, and then - knowing he was Jewish - made the awful mistake of calling him a "Jewish liar."  I didn't know why that was such an awful epithet.  I was throwing stuff against the wall in an effort to hurt him emotionally.  Kids do that.

I was removed from the class and talked to by the teacher and a counselor.  No suspension but I gathered very quickly even as a little kid that I had crossed a line.  I formally apologized to him and to his family in person and wrote a letter about what I had learned. 

The boy and I wound up being very good friends, maybe even best friends in jr. high.  

And later this year my 2022 catcher will be called to the Torah as a bar mitzvah and I will link arms with my Jewish wife and family and sing the Sh'ma with a (Padres) yarmulke on my head.  Just saying. Things can change and I hope this little boy learns what I learned.

Mazel Tov to your son and his family.

TPM posted:

OskiSD posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Seems like this has taken a turn for the better, but this thread, if it should survive, should be about how parents (basically "us") can do a better job in raising our kids as well as doing a better job helping guide/encourage others.  For instance, assume you are the league president and you are told some kid spit on an opposing team player - twice.  This simplifies the discussion to "bad behavior" and "response" and would remove the lightning rod.  Some parents would "ban the kid" and others would say "teaching moment".

To being to opine exactly how a 9 year old, who is a hypothetical 9 year old that none of us know, grasps the significance of that word is simply foolish.  To do so on a high school baseball website is more foolish.  I think folks have outlined the spectrum of that kid's understanding of that word from "heard it on the playground" up through "parents to blame".  Regardless, I am quite certain he does not fully grasp its significance.  If he does, he needs to be pulled off the football field and put in a "highly gifted" fast track to Harvard.  Thinking that is so advanced at that age should be nurtured.

A painful memory that will hopefully frame this discussion in the context of hope:

When I was seven, I had a dispute with a classmate who happened to be Jewish.  He lied about an incident in class and fingered me.  I called him a liar to his face, and then - knowing he was Jewish - made the awful mistake of calling him a "Jewish liar."  I didn't know why that was such an awful epithet.  I was throwing stuff against the wall in an effort to hurt him emotionally.  Kids do that.

I was removed from the class and talked to by the teacher and a counselor.  No suspension but I gathered very quickly even as a little kid that I had crossed a line.  I formally apologized to him and to his family in person and wrote a letter about what I had learned. 

The boy and I wound up being very good friends, maybe even best friends in jr. high.  

And later this year my 2022 catcher will be called to the Torah as a bar mitzvah and I will link arms with my Jewish wife and family and sing the Sh'ma with a (Padres) yarmulke on my head.  Just saying. Things can change and I hope this little boy learns what I learned.

Mazel Tov to your son and his family.

L'Chaim!  

The teaching moment for this kid is how hypocritical we as adults are.

From the article it is impossible to place either the child's actions or his punishment in any context. There simply is not enough information. I am not saying the child could have been right in his actions, only that his motives, state of mind or heart can not be known. Likewise neither can the process by which the punishment was derived be discerned from the article.

However, I believe that the goal of any punishment should be the ultimate restoration of the offender to the community. To me, that is the beauty of OSKISD story. The nature of his his punishment led him to enlightenment and later to joy. It also did the same for the victim of his verbal targeting. I hope somehow both the boys are lifted up in like manner.

Ted22 posted:

From the article it is impossible to place either the child's actions or his punishment in any context. There simply is not enough information. I am not saying the child could have been right in his actions, only that his motives, state of mind or heart can not be known. Likewise neither can the process by which the punishment was derived be discerned from the article.

However, I believe that the goal of any punishment should be the ultimate restoration of the offender to the community. To me, that is the beauty of OSKISD story. The nature of his his punishment led him to enlightenment and later to joy. It also did the same for the victim of his verbal targeting. I hope somehow both the boys are lifted up in like manner.

Incredibly well-said