NYTIMES: They Can Hit 400-Foot Homers, but Playing Catch? That’s Tricky

Many D1 Coaches complain about a lack of fundamentals and baseball intelligence but no one of them is signing a crafty smart pitcher throwing 83 over a raw guy throwing 95 who forgets to cover first or home.

 It is easier to teach a dummy who is slow in his head some fundamentals than to teach a sound ballplayer who doesnt make mental mistakes but only throws low 80s to hit 90s.

So what college coaches really want is a guy who throws 90+ AND does play sound baseball without mental mistakes but you dont always get that unless you are a top program.

Dominik85 posted:

Many D1 Coaches complain about a lack of fundamentals and baseball intelligence but no one of them is signing a crafty smart pitcher throwing 83 over a raw guy throwing 95 who forgets to cover first or home.

 It is easier to teach a dummy who is slow in his head some fundamentals than to teach a sound ballplayer who doesnt make mental mistakes but only throws low 80s to hit 90s.

So what college coaches really want is a guy who throws 90+ AND does play sound baseball without mental mistakes but you dont always get that unless you are a top program.

No doubt about it,  D1 body with raw tools, wins out every time, especially over little guys with more polished tools. 

You get what you recruit.  

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

I saw a D3 outfielder go 4 for 4 yesterday, laser beams to all fields, a 400 foot HR that was hit on a line and a double in the gap.  I've been following this kid for awhile, every coach I've talked to about him says "Yep, the D1's missed on that one.  Slow 60 time but the kid can flat out hit."

RJM posted:

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

What level of travel ball have you seen where no one sits the bench? In order to have that happen there can only be 9 players on the team.

Stats4Gnats posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

 

What level of travel ball have you seen where no one sits the bench? In order to have that happen there can only be 9 players on the team.

Every inning kids sit the bench in travel ball, however, if the team is up by 10, or it's a pool-play game the travel ball coaches tend to attempt to get the kids that don't play much in the game some how.  Come Sunday it's all about the best 9 on the field but in a 5 game weekend I have never heard of a Travel Ball kid not getting to play at least one inning. 

Conversely, which is what the coach was pointing out, in high school and above it is very common that a player on the roster will not see the field in 5 games, or 10 games. 

I have been rather stunned while watching my son's summer league games.  He plays in a very good organization that sends a lot of guys on to college teams.  But, I saw guy after guy who could hit pretty well, but couldn't field or throw or play fly balls competently.

This article makes sense.

Dominik85 posted:

Many D1 Coaches complain about a lack of fundamentals and baseball intelligence but no one of them is signing a crafty smart pitcher throwing 83 over a raw guy throwing 95 who forgets to cover first or home.

It is easier to teach a dummy who is slow in his head some fundamentals than to teach a sound ballplayer who doesnt make mental mistakes but only throws low 80s to hit 90s.

So what college coaches really want is a guy who throws 90+ AND does play sound baseball without mental mistakes but you dont always get that unless you are a top program.

All true except for what you said about top programs. They certainly get their share of less than perfect players too.

I think the issue is one of false equivalency. I.e., equating a pitcher’s velocity to team success when he’s pitching. With all the numbers being thrown around in today’s game, how is an individual’s pitching equated to team success? As far as I know, in the amateur game there is no way to do that with numbers, other than W’s and L’s.

Used to be, the primary measure was how a pitcher got outs compared to how many ERs he gave up, or ERA. Now it’s much more his Ks per inning.

CaCO3Girl posted:

RJM posted:

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

In my era we played LL, Babe Ruth and Legion. At every level the players had to make the team. So everyone was an adequate player. From the time I was eleven in LL I never sat. When I got to college ball everyone else had the same experience. There wasn't travel then. 

What hasn't changed in forever is how much talent to you have? How hard are you working to get even better? And how badly do you want it? 

Theres always been a talent funnel. For those who are first in line it's about having the mental capacity and work ethic to hold on to your spot. For those further down the line it's about being mentally and physically ready to take advantage of any opportunity you get. Whining and complaining is just a distraction from the goal. 

From coaching at the lower levels (Travel & High School) I've seen the opposite:  kids these days are way more advanced in terms of fundamentals, playing catch, Baseball IQ and every aspect of the game.  Problem is, not every player like that runs a 6 something 60 or throws 90 plus across the infield.

D1's seem to be getting increasingly rabid about recruiting athletes as opposed to recruiting Baseball players.  I'm fairly certain that a 17 year old Harmon Killebrew wouldn't get recruited to a top D1 school in today's day & age.  Neither would a 17 year old Greg Maddux or Warren Spahn.  Luke Appling?  No chance, too slow.  

Just curious, has anyone here seen college players who don't know how to have a catch? I'm not doubting Coach Thompson, I just haven't seen it for myself.

MidAtlanticDad posted:

Just curious, has anyone here seen college players who don't know how to have a catch? I'm not doubting Coach Thompson, I just haven't seen it for myself.

He's a high school coach, not college coach.  I think the biggest difference is a lack of love for the game.  When I was young baseball was on my mind all day every day.  I'd say we only have 3-4 players on our HS team who just flat out love this game and have loved it for a long time.  

Not many kids on our team can throw with what I would call proper throwing mechanics.  We have guys who go over the top, sidearm, squared shoulders, stiff arm (all with terrible footwork and herky jerky mechanics).  They didn't grow up playing sandlot/cementlot/driveway ball, skipping rocks, horseshoes, or did much throwing/tossing of anything.  And their BBIQ is lacking due to watching highlights instead of full games and not playing any baseball video games, preferring shooting games. 

You also have the opposite for kids that are really into baseball.  Many kids with TB and individual coaching are much more prepared than kids before.  They're better ball players on average,  

hsbaseball101 posted:

MidAtlanticDad posted:

Just curious, has anyone here seen college players who don't know how to have a catch? I'm not doubting Coach Thompson, I just haven't seen it for myself.

He's a high school coach, not college coach.  I think the biggest difference is a lack of love for the game.  When I was young baseball was on my mind all day every day.  I'd say we only have 3-4 players on our HS team who just flat out love this game and have loved it for a long time.  

Not many kids on our team can throw with what I would call proper throwing mechanics.  We have guys who go over the top, sidearm, squared shoulders, stiff arm (all with terrible footwork and herky jerky mechanics).  They didn't grow up playing sandlot/cementlot/driveway ball, skipping rocks, horseshoes, or did much throwing/tossing of anything.  And their BBIQ is lacking due to watching highlights instead of full games and not playing any baseball video games, preferring shooting games. 

You also have the opposite for kids that are really into baseball.  Many kids with TB and individual coaching are much more prepared than kids before.  They're better ball players on average,  

I would say locally the parents are taking their kids to pitching, hitting and catching lessons...so they are above average on THOSE fronts.  Fielding lessons, throwing lessons, base running lessons...they are almost non-existent.

Throwing from the outfield, OY!  I've seen some interesting interpretations of a crow-hop.  I've also seen some disgraceful base running with players taking too long to realize they should have ran, or should have tagged up.

I would agree that there are certain aspects of the game that are getting private lessons on top of private lessons but there are very important parts of the game that aren't getting much attention, I think these are the holes this article is talking about.

Stats4Gnats posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

 

What level of travel ball have you seen where no one sits the bench? In order to have that happen there can only be 9 players on the team.

The advice that I've seen the most regarding development is choose a team that you're kid will get to play and get reps so he can get better versus sitting. 

I think the point that he's trying to make is making kids earn their spots. I think some teams do a good job of that and some don't. 

hsbaseball101 posted:

MidAtlanticDad posted:

Just curious, has anyone here seen college players who don't know how to have a catch? I'm not doubting Coach Thompson, I just haven't seen it for myself.

He's a high school coach, not college coach.  

Why did they hide that... in the first sentence.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

Stats4Gnats posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

 

What level of travel ball have you seen where no one sits the bench? In order to have that happen there can only be 9 players on the team.

Every inning kids sit the bench in travel ball, however, if the team is up by 10, or it's a pool-play game the travel ball coaches tend to attempt to get the kids that don't play much in the game some how.  Come Sunday it's all about the best 9 on the field but in a 5 game weekend I have never heard of a Travel Ball kid not getting to play at least one inning. 

Conversely, which is what the coach was pointing out, in high school and above it is very common that a player on the roster will not see the field in 5 games, or 10 games. 

My son's travel team is 1400 per season plus hotels and other expenses.  If my kid doesn't play, I don't pay.  It's pretty  simple economics. 

Teaching Elder posted:

I have been rather stunned while watching my son's summer league games.  He plays in a very good organization that sends a lot of guys on to college teams.  But, I saw guy after guy who could hit pretty well, but couldn't field or throw or play fly balls competently.

This article makes sense.

A few years ago my kids team played a team so elite it had elite in its name.  They are a college prep program.    Kids team was all a year younger in age (not grade). The other team all had full beards.  We played them really close, until we ran out of depth. They were bigger, stronger, faster, but lacked a lot of the fundamentals - lots of errors and swing and miss.  

MidAtlanticDad posted:

Just curious, has anyone here seen college players who don't know how to have a catch? I'm not doubting Coach Thompson, I just haven't seen it for myself.

Playing catch to play catch, and playing catch as a way to improve your skills are two different things.  Playing catch is an ideal time to work on your throwing skills, not just get loose.  D1,2,3,JUCO,NAIA, whatever the level, catch is not used to get loose, catch is used to work on your hands, feet, transfer, accuracy, etc. When you put some intent behind it, you improve those skills. 

The teaching of TEAM concepts are being lost at lower levels.  Everyone can analyze their own swing on video now, but you put in a bunt defense and players look at you like you're teaching them quantum physics.  It amazed me when freshman would join our program and had not been taught how to execute a rundown, a 1st and third defense, a delayed steal, etc.  Forget about bunting! You're not paying $80 per hour for bunting lessons, right?  

Every coach expects to TEACH and COACH incoming players, but there is a recent decline in understanding of broader aspects to the game.  Their is a heightened focus on individual skills & mechanics, and less on team concepts.  Team concepts are focussed on VERY heavily at the college level. This is where the frustration comes in.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

RJM posted:

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

I've never seen a kid develop skills or love of game while sitting on the bench. 

uncoach posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

RJM posted:

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

I've never seen a kid develop skills or love of game while sitting on the bench. 

Can't agree.  First off, all kids have practice, regardless of if they make it onto the field during a game.  This is where they are suppose to develop their skills, it helps to be able to play but practice is key and everyone on the team does get that.  Secondly, you don't have to play to love the game, just ask the 100+ mothers on this board.

One of the best pieces of advice my son has received in this baseball journey is that you have to love to TRAIN to play baseball, not just love to PLAY baseball.  The higher up you go the less actual playing time you get, so you have to love to TRAIN for and not just play baseball

RJM posted:

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

He would probably deny it publicly, but a D1 head coach with multiple CWS appearances once told me he absolutely hated going to the big  tournaments in the Atlanta area due to crazy parents, poor fundamentals, and kids playing purely for themselves and not their teams.  But, he also admitted that he had no choice, because that's where the players were.  

I think they catch just fine.  I do think baseball IQ is down significantly.  They just don't watch and talk enough baseball.  And they don't play the 300 pick up games a year we used to play.   But skills wise players today are much much better.  And everybody wants to rip on travel ball cause its the in thing to do.  But travel ball has been great for my kid I can tell you that.  And the difference in high school  between the travel ballers and non travel is obvious and Wide.

Golfman25 posted:

A few years ago my kids team played a team so elite it had elite in its name.  

LOL! Good one, Golf.

MTH posted:

RJM posted:

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

He would probably deny it publicly, but a D1 head coach with multiple CWS appearances once told me he absolutely hated going to the big  tournaments in the Atlanta area due to crazy parents, poor fundamentals, and kids playing purely for themselves and not their teams.  But, he also admitted that he had no choice, because that's where the players were.  

Have heard the same thing from a D1 coach..."have my list of guys I'm going to see then I'm leaving; don't want to deal with all the "stuff""

2020dad posted:

I think they catch just fine.  I do think baseball IQ is down significantly.  They just don't watch and talk enough baseball.  And they don't play the 300 pick up games a year we used to play.   But skills wise players today are much much better.  And everybody wants to rip on travel ball cause its the in thing to do.  But travel ball has been great for my kid I can tell you that.  And the difference in high school  between the travel ballers and non travel is obvious and Wide.

It may just be the competitive side of me but I'd never admit to this -- "But skills wise players today are much much better".  In fact, 30+ years ago I wouldn't admit that another player was more skilled then me despite knowing deep down they were. 

Redsdad posted:

MTH posted:

RJM posted:

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

He would probably deny it publicly, but a D1 head coach with multiple CWS appearances once told me he absolutely hated going to the big  tournaments in the Atlanta area due to crazy parents, poor fundamentals, and kids playing purely for themselves and not their teams.  But, he also admitted that he had no choice, because that's where the players were.  

Have heard the same thing from a D1 coach..."have my list of guys I'm going to see then I'm leaving; don't want to deal with all the "stuff""

Don't you think that attitude costs him players somewhere along the line?  Dealing with 'stuff' in one way or another is part of just about every living breathing persons work life isn't it?  What makes these guys think they are so special their jobs shouldn't include some 'stuff'?

CaCO3Girl posted:

uncoach posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

RJM posted:

I recently watched a video of the ULL coach ripping on travel ball and entitlement. I know he's a good coach. I respect him. But I'll push all my chips in he (or assistants) doesn't miss PG events from Texas to Georgia. 

I saw that clip and thought the message was a good one.  The message was that in MLB, MiLB, and College a kid is more likely to sit than play....so what's with travel ball?  Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go?  I thought the ULL coach had a really good point. 

I've never seen a kid develop skills or love of game while sitting on the bench. 

Can't agree.  First off, all kids have practice, regardless of if they make it onto the field during a game.  This is where they are suppose to develop their skills, it helps to be able to play but practice is key and everyone on the team does get that.  Secondly, you don't have to play to love the game, just ask the 100+ mothers on this board.

One of the best pieces of advice my son has received in this baseball journey is that you have to love to TRAIN to play baseball, not just love to PLAY baseball.  The higher up you go the less actual playing time you get, so you have to love to TRAIN for and not just play baseball

Practice isn't sitting on the bench. At some point players have to put their training and "practice" into games. They can't do that when they are sitting on the bench. Practice and training isn't facing live pitching in pressure situations. No one of intelligence is going to spend thousands of dollars sticking their kid on a travel team and spending vacation money on hotels watching their kids sit the bench for 5 games. It's a completely different model than school ball and has no bearing on whether a player is going to succeed or fail from sitting the bench at his college. If that's the type of player the coach is recruiting, that's his own fault, not travel ball.

I don't know why anyone would play for a travel program that wouldn't offer ample playing time opportunities.  There'll be plenty of time for learning how to wait on the bench for your turn, or to come face to face with the impact of your own limitations.  People seem to forget that it's a GAME and the idea is to PLAY IT.  At the college and pro level, yes it's more of a JOB at that point.  So sitting the bench can wait until then IMHO.

That being said, a lot of what is being discussed above is a result of the helicopter parenting explosion, fueled in large part by the historically high levels of disposable income and wealth in America.  (And yes, I know there's been a recession, but if you doubt the numbers, you can look 'em up.)

Johnny Bench once said Little League was a waste.  Kids get uniforms, then go play 16 games where they get maybe 50 AB's all season.  He played sandlot ball and got 50 AB's or more PER DAY.  I do think we see more and more kids whose swings have been honed to perfection, but they lack feel for the nuances of how the game is played.  And they don't wake up each summer day planning to head to the corner lot to see who shows up and get playing for 6-7 hours, either.  That's a doggone shame.  I think the kids are missing out.

I also have been perplexed by the explosion of kids who have cranky throwing motions.  It seems to me all that should've gotten taken care of in youth recreational ball.  I recall having discussions with young players about proper grip and throwing mechanics and drills, etc.  Of course, many kids would say, "But that's not how I like to do it!" And my reply would be, "I think you have mis-perceived the nature of this conversation.  You think we are having a two-way discussion.  But actually, I am just telling you how you will throw if you wish to play.  Because your team needs you to perform at a certain level, or else everything falls apart for all your teammates, and we can't have that.  So, your personal preferences are totally irrelevant.  Now, go do the drills."

I never had to have that discussion twice.  Over time, I did get a few nasty parent e-mails.  Those went into the "who cares?" file.  Some parents think their child should never be spoken to by anyone asserting authority.  Those parents are wrong.  The rest of us move on.

I fear that things like the Positive Coaching Alliance have been distorted so as to interpret proper adult authority and instruction as "mean."  But I don't know how anyone is supposed to run any group of youngsters if each and every one of them is free to go his own way and none of them bear any feeling of responsibility to the team unit, nor to their teammates.  I'm not talking about veins bulging, spit flying, screaming.  I'm just talking about making clear who's in charge and what the expectations are, and then actually teaching the game to the kids, as opposed to just running a free babysitting service.

The reality is, most youngsters don't play baseball competitively into their mid-teens, much less in HS or college.  So it seems to me we're missing the opportunity to use baseball to teach life skills, all so that we can enhance the self-indulgent attitudes that are now surfacing more and more among adults as the former children age out of school.

The way this is coming to a head in my area is that whereas ten years ago there were 10 kids touching or exceeding 90 mph on a regular basis, this year I know of 2.  Hooray, the 78 mph fastball is making a comeback!  I guess that's what people wanted.  After all, every year I have to read some post from someone complaining that no one appreciates their mid-70's son.  Well, to all those, your time has come!

Redsdad posted:

2020dad posted:

I think they catch just fine.  I do think baseball IQ is down significantly.  They just don't watch and talk enough baseball.  And they don't play the 300 pick up games a year we used to play.   But skills wise players today are much much better.  And everybody wants to rip on travel ball cause its the in thing to do.  But travel ball has been great for my kid I can tell you that.  And the difference in high school  between the travel ballers and non travel is obvious and Wide.

It may just be the competitive side of me but I'd never admit to this -- "But skills wise players today are much much better".  In fact, 30+ years ago I wouldn't admit that another player was more skilled then me despite knowing deep down they were. 

You're alright with me, Redsdad. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

Every inning kids sit the bench in travel ball, however, if the team is up by 10, or it's a pool-play game the travel ball coaches tend to attempt to get the kids that don't play much in the game some how.  Come Sunday it's all about the best 9 on the field but in a 5 game weekend I have never heard of a Travel Ball kid not getting to play at least one inning. 

But you said Why bring a kid up in an organization where everyone plays when that isn't how it is the further up you go? So which is it? Do kids in TB sit or does everyone play?

I think what you’re not understanding is, coaches at every level, including MLB play as many “bench” players as possible when it won’t affect the outcome of the game. So to imply there are organizations that aren’t rec where there are must play provisions or where everyone plays every game is just not true.

Conversely, which is what the coach was pointing out, in high school and above it is very common that a player on the roster will not see the field in 5 games, or 10 games. 

I don’t agree that it’s normal at all to see that. Attached is something I generate in part to show PT. In 8 games this season, as you can see, the last 6 players don’t get much PT in any form, but there’s a reason. 3 are on the DL, one was called up for an early season game and sent back down before he got to play, one got called up in an emergency and played in 1 game. The other boy is on the V roster because he’s something of an inspiration. He isn’t good enough to play regularly or even substitute much, but the coach puts him into games when he can.

Uncoach: While I agree you have to play to truly learn, you said "No one of intelligence is going to spend thousands of dollars sticking their kid on a travel team and spending vacation money on hotels watching their kids sit the bench for 5 games."....so can you explain the roster of the 17u team that plays all over the place that has 25 or 30 kids? They don't have 20 PO's.

Midlo Dad: You said " I don't know why anyone would play for a travel program that wouldn't offer ample playing time opportunities. "...Are you telling me you don't know of a team that has 25+ kids on it that are there to play once every 4th or 5th game, if they are lucky, and if that organization doesn't call in a stud from across the country to take their spot at that tourney? They aren't playing for that A+ team for playing time they are on that team for name recognition because even the bench warmers of said team get scholarship offers. However, to your other point about kids thinking they know better, all I can say is that MY kid might ask you questions but he would do it your way or know he wouldn't be playing.

Stats: Under 15u everyone seems to have equal playing time on most teams, and most teams have less than 15 players so it's fairly easy to rotate through the playing time.  My sons travel team has 14 players, his JV team had 22, Varsity has 27.  A D1 roster has 35 players, how many for MiLB?  How about that 40 man roster we hear about?  The coaches point was that the higher up you go the better chance you will sit.  So the kids who are use to playing in TB get disenfranchised by the sitting in the higher levels.  I still think his point is valid.

Midlo Dad posted:

I don't know why anyone would play for a travel program that wouldn't offer ample playing time opportunities.  There'll be plenty of time for learning how to wait on the bench for your turn, or to come face to face with the impact of your own limitations.  People seem to forget that it's a GAME and the idea is to PLAY IT.  At the college and pro level, yes it's more of a JOB at that point.  So sitting the bench can wait until then IMHO.

That being said, a lot of what is being discussed above is a result of the helicopter parenting explosion, fueled in large part by the historically high levels of disposable income and wealth in America.  (And yes, I know there's been a recession, but if you doubt the numbers, you can look 'em up.)

Johnny Bench once said Little League was a waste.  Kids get uniforms, then go play 16 games where they get maybe 50 AB's all season.  He played sandlot ball and got 50 AB's or more PER DAY.  I do think we see more and more kids whose swings have been honed to perfection, but they lack feel for the nuances of how the game is played.  And they don't wake up each summer day planning to head to the corner lot to see who shows up and get playing for 6-7 hours, either.  That's a doggone shame.  I think the kids are missing out.

I also have been perplexed by the explosion of kids who have cranky throwing motions.  It seems to me all that should've gotten taken care of in youth recreational ball.  I recall having discussions with young players about proper grip and throwing mechanics and drills, etc.  Of course, many kids would say, "But that's not how I like to do it!" And my reply would be, "I think you have mis-perceived the nature of this conversation.  You think we are having a two-way discussion.  But actually, I am just telling you how you will throw if you wish to play.  Because your team needs you to perform at a certain level, or else everything falls apart for all your teammates, and we can't have that.  So, your personal preferences are totally irrelevant.  Now, go do the drills."

I never had to have that discussion twice.  Over time, I did get a few nasty parent e-mails.  Those went into the "who cares?" file.  Some parents think their child should never be spoken to by anyone asserting authority.  Those parents are wrong.  The rest of us move on.

I fear that things like the Positive Coaching Alliance have been distorted so as to interpret proper adult authority and instruction as "mean."  But I don't know how anyone is supposed to run any group of youngsters if each and every one of them is free to go his own way and none of them bear any feeling of responsibility to the team unit, nor to their teammates.  I'm not talking about veins bulging, spit flying, screaming.  I'm just talking about making clear who's in charge and what the expectations are, and then actually teaching the game to the kids, as opposed to just running a free babysitting service.

The reality is, most youngsters don't play baseball competitively into their mid-teens, much less in HS or college.  So it seems to me we're missing the opportunity to use baseball to teach life skills, all so that we can enhance the self-indulgent attitudes that are now surfacing more and more among adults as the former children age out of school.

The way this is coming to a head in my area is that whereas ten years ago there were 10 kids touching or exceeding 90 mph on a regular basis, this year I know of 2.  Hooray, the 78 mph fastball is making a comeback!  I guess that's what people wanted.  After all, every year I have to read some post from someone complaining that no one appreciates their mid-70's son.  Well, to all those, your time has come!

Preach it, MidLo!!!

Midlo Dad posted:

I don't know why anyone would play for a travel program that wouldn't offer ample playing time opportunities.  There'll be plenty of time for learning how to wait on the bench for your turn, or to come face to face with the impact of your own limitations.  People seem to forget that it's a GAME and the idea is to PLAY IT.  At the college and pro level, yes it's more of a JOB at that point.  So sitting the bench can wait until then IMHO.

That being said, a lot of what is being discussed above is a result of the helicopter parenting explosion, fueled in large part by the historically high levels of disposable income and wealth in America.  (And yes, I know there's been a recession, but if you doubt the numbers, you can look 'em up.)

Johnny Bench once said Little League was a waste.  Kids get uniforms, then go play 16 games where they get maybe 50 AB's all season.  He played sandlot ball and got 50 AB's or more PER DAY.  I do think we see more and more kids whose swings have been honed to perfection, but they lack feel for the nuances of how the game is played.  And they don't wake up each summer day planning to head to the corner lot to see who shows up and get playing for 6-7 hours, either.  That's a doggone shame.  I think the kids are missing out.

I also have been perplexed by the explosion of kids who have cranky throwing motions.  It seems to me all that should've gotten taken care of in youth recreational ball.  I recall having discussions with young players about proper grip and throwing mechanics and drills, etc.  Of course, many kids would say, "But that's not how I like to do it!" And my reply would be, "I think you have mis-perceived the nature of this conversation.  You think we are having a two-way discussion.  But actually, I am just telling you how you will throw if you wish to play.  Because your team needs you to perform at a certain level, or else everything falls apart for all your teammates, and we can't have that.  So, your personal preferences are totally irrelevant.  Now, go do the drills."

I never had to have that discussion twice.  Over time, I did get a few nasty parent e-mails.  Those went into the "who cares?" file.  Some parents think their child should never be spoken to by anyone asserting authority.  Those parents are wrong.  The rest of us move on.

I fear that things like the Positive Coaching Alliance have been distorted so as to interpret proper adult authority and instruction as "mean."  But I don't know how anyone is supposed to run any group of youngsters if each and every one of them is free to go his own way and none of them bear any feeling of responsibility to the team unit, nor to their teammates.  I'm not talking about veins bulging, spit flying, screaming.  I'm just talking about making clear who's in charge and what the expectations are, and then actually teaching the game to the kids, as opposed to just running a free babysitting service.

The reality is, most youngsters don't play baseball competitively into their mid-teens, much less in HS or college.  So it seems to me we're missing the opportunity to use baseball to teach life skills, all so that we can enhance the self-indulgent attitudes that are now surfacing more and more among adults as the former children age out of school.

The way this is coming to a head in my area is that whereas ten years ago there were 10 kids touching or exceeding 90 mph on a regular basis, this year I know of 2.  Hooray, the 78 mph fastball is making a comeback!  I guess that's what people wanted.  After all, every year I have to read some post from someone complaining that no one appreciates their mid-70's son.  Well, to all those, your time has come!

Midlo you have me entirely confused.  You had me with the Johnny Bench stuff.  Big problem that now we don't get enough live swings in.  Too much cage work and not enough baseball playing.  Agree 100%  But then you went off the rails on me...  There are more hard throwers now than there have ever been.  And I think a big part of that is kids/parents taking control of their own destiny not just listening to some blow hard cookie cutter coach.  Its a great thing that parents/kids have so many options today not a bad thing. 

I do see reports of more hard throwers across the country than were previously known.  I don't know how much of that is due to there being more hard throwers, and how much of it is due to fewer and fewer such guys remaining unknown.

But in my area, it seems that the wave crested about 8-10 years ago, and we have seen a pronounced decline.  Yes, I can put together one travel team with a solid core of studs, but at your average HS game, you just don't see as many 90+ or even mid/upper 80's guys.  And when you do see one, it's "hot knife through butter" time.

Whether others are seeing that go on in their (other) necks of the woods, I'd be interested in hearing.  But locally (Richmond, VA area) it's a phenomenon I can document in detail, but I struggle to understand the why of it.  I don't think the gene pool has changed, so it must be something else.

"Are you telling me you don't know of a team that has 25+ kids on it that are there to play once every 4th or 5th game, if they are lucky, and if that organization doesn't call in a stud from across the country to take their spot at that tourney? "

No, I know of those types of teams. 

Some teams do roster all sorts of kids, but only a certain number are present on any given day.  This happens a lot with programs that focus on high level draft prospects brought in from all over the country.  It's especially prominent with pitchers.  The team will accommodate them flying in, pitching 2-3 innings and then leaving.  And some of the players are free to go do other events like East Coast Pro or Area Code Games or such.  So you have to have enough depth to put a team on the field when a lot of guys are coming and going.

I have also seen teams where the coaches promised the moon to kids, who show up only to discover that their playing time is not going to be what they were promised.  Those coaches have to be skilled at escaping the venues without having confrontations. 

So yes, I know people do this, and never said I didn't.  I just don't know why anyone would pay to put their kid on that team, or keep him there, once they knew the score.  But hey, a fool and his money I suppose.

Midlo Dad posted:

I do see reports of more hard throwers across the country than were previously known.  I don't know how much of that is due to there being more hard throwers, and how much of it is due to fewer and fewer such guys remaining unknown.

But in my area, it seems that the wave crested about 8-10 years ago, and we have seen a pronounced decline.  Yes, I can put together one travel team with a solid core of studs, but at your average HS game, you just don't see as many 90+ or even mid/upper 80's guys.  And when you do see one, it's "hot knife through butter" time.

Whether others are seeing that go on in their (other) necks of the woods, I'd be interested in hearing.  But locally (Richmond, VA area) it's a phenomenon I can document in detail, but I struggle to understand the why of it.  I don't think the gene pool has changed, so it must be something else.

Interesting.  I will say there is some ebb and flow I think regionally.  My alma mater (high school) has produced more MLB players than any other school in illinois (at least last I knew) but none lately.  Meanwhile after years, decades really of drought Wisconsin is starting to produce baseball players now that several academies have appeared on the scene.  So I could definitely see how things may have gone downhill in  your area nut I think nationwide definitely better athletes than ever.

Midlo Dad posted:

 Some parents think their child should never be spoken to by anyone asserting authority.  Those parents are wrong.  The rest of us move on.

I fear that things like the Positive Coaching Alliance have been distorted so as to interpret proper adult authority and instruction as "mean."  But I don't know how anyone is supposed to run any group of youngsters if each and every one of them is free to go his own way and none of them bear any feeling of responsibility to the team unit, nor to their teammates.  I'm not talking about veins bulging, spit flying, screaming.  I'm just talking about making clear who's in charge and what the expectations are, and then actually teaching the game to the kids, as opposed to just running a free babysitting service.

 

1000 likes for this! 

Midlo, in regards to velo, not sure if there is more or less high velo, what I see that's different is kids in HS hitting high velo when they face it. 90+ was an extremely dominant HS fastball at one time. But not now. There's a local 2017 kid who is sitting 97-99 and in 21 innings has given up 16 hits (for an opponent's batting average of .205) -- that's obviously very good, but I think 30 years ago it would have been much lower.  And another 2017 local kid who is more low-to-mid 90s (PG profile shows a high of 95, and a range of 90-95, last fall) who in 26 innings has given up 28 hits (opponent batting average of .277). I don't see the hot knife through butter thing . . .