I am curious which coach will usually make the scholarship offer? Will a pitching coach make a pitcher an offer? Very new to this so any feedback is greatly appreciated.
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I would be leery of any offer, not received from the head coach. The AC positions at the college level is so fluid, with assistant coaches moving on for different opportunities.
That being said, it may depend on the program.
In every offer my son received, it came from the HC. The AC made many of the invites to my son to visit and told him it was to receive an offer, but in call cases, it was during a sit-down with the HC who made an offer.
My oldest received several D1 offers - answer is that it varies. Usually it's the head coach who actually does it, but I can think of at least one that came from the pitching coach. He did not end up at that program, but he knows other pitchers who did and their offers came from the PC.
In all cases with my son the offer came from HC.
Two of our son's offers came from the pitching coach. If that's the case, it's especially important for the player to spend as much time as possible interacting with the head coach to see if they seem like a good fit for each other. After all, the head coach is the one making out the starting line-up most of the time.
Former offers should come from the HC or any recruiter that is also an Associate HC.
As stated, this is very much dependent on the proram as well.
In son's case it came from the PC but he had already had a sit down with the HC. PC was clear that offer was coming from HC which in our case was good as PC is at his second school after that offer was made.
First of all, before I type about my experience with offers and the validity or lack thereof depending on who you are speaking with in the baseball department . I think it's important to start here :
FACT : Only approx 7% of high school baseball players play NCAA baseball.
Only 2% will play at the NCAA D-1 level
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/baseball
So, an offer to play NCAA baseball is pretty special. The data shows that they are extremely hard to come by. In lieu of the aforementioned data , fretting about whether an offer to play NCAA baseball came via a Head Coach or an Assistant Coach seems......Well, it seems kinda nit picky. Just my opinion. And I understand the OP question. I get it. I really do. But that 7% number. That's important! Gotta remember that.
So, here is my experience w/ offers:
My sons had 3 offers when he committed. 1 from a HC and the other 2 from RC's ( recruiting coordinators )
He committed to one of the RC offer schools.
The HC resigned and the RC became the new HC .So, it all sort of worked out for my son.
Every program is different. Some HC's empower the RC to make offers . But make no mistake the HC is well informed and vets these offers before they're extended by RC's .
As I stated earlier an offer in NCAA baseball is SPECIAL.......Schools don't hand them out carelessly!
Just ask anyone here who has been through the process and you will hear about the countless showcases, camp invites, travel and credit card bills that go into college baseball recruiting . Often to no avail.
I Personally, know parents of talented players who have worked at it from Sophomore HS year and now entering Senior HS year with NO offers.
It isn't so much 'who made the offer' as it is about 'getting the offer'.
If you haven't been through the process. I'll tell you, getting an actual offer, A legit guaranteed roster spot with an accompanying NLI is really hard to do.
-Just my opinion
My son just received a phone call from the Marshall Pitching Coach (who is now their recruiting coordinator) to inform him that they want to part ways. This is the same coach who called us repeatedly last Fall in wanting our son, and who made an offer to us over the phone last December that was absolutely hard to refuse (full-ride, four years and if they redshirt him they will pay the additional year). He said everything that one wanted to hear, your son is our "A" player for his class, we see him as an immediate impact player, our Friday night starter, we see him as two-position player, etc. We told our son of the offer and he made the decision to accept it. The PC then gave us a call to welcome us to the Marshall family, said he will keep in routine contact, wants our son to keep him updated on his high school season, all the things you hope and expect to hear. My son then proudly informed the entire college baseball world of his commitment to Marshall. Since that time, we've had one excuse after another from the head coach in trying to make a visit to sit down with him to go over the offer to just confirm things. Hardly no communications, and if it were, it was very short one word text messages. My son had a remarkable high school junior season where he earned first-team 6A all-state honors and has had a terrific summer season with his travel team. I'm saying this so one understands that there was no reason in our mind for Marshall to de-commit my son, his performance never faltered and he has never been injured. The only explanation we got from the PC in reneging on the agreement was that they didn't want to waste his arm by redshirting him and they thought it best to part ways (as he put it). This was all that was said. So here we are, my son has been strung along through almost his whole entire junior season expecting Marshall to honor their agreement, and now he has very little time to re-open the recruiting process at this time of the year.
I'm sharing this with all you parents because it is something I feel you should know about this wild west style of recruiting. I don't know what NCAA has in so far rules for this, but it seems like these coaches know there are no laws or rules and they have can say whatever they want in so far as commitments and get away with it. All the same time, not caring what they are doing to a young person's future. I don't think it matters if it comes from a head coach or an assistant coach, they will say whatever they want and promise you things without having to actually live up to it. The NCAA needs to clamp down further on this recruiting process! Parents please make sure that these coaches communicate to you. I know there are coaches who say they don't want to be peppered by parents, but if the communications is not happening from their end, it should send you are warning!
Sorry to hear that happened, Sooner, that's rough. I hope he finds a good fit to move forward with. So what is your gut feel and what is your son's gut feel as to what the real reason is behind their action?
I am truly saddened to hear about what is happening at this point in the process. This is so wrong, on so many levels, for so many reasons. Tell him to keep his head held high and keep working hard toward his goal. All the best to him and your family during this difficult time.
Similar thing happened to son's friend. Told not to show up 18 days before he was to report. Signed LOI but doesn't do much good when you aren't wanted. In his situation he had multiple solid juco offers within a couple of days. He is happy where he is at and likely will end up at a better school than the first one
At this point it is late for a 2017 but not totally over and if talented enough to warrant that first kind of offer I am hopeful he finds a home. Good luck to you and your son.
Question on the same line....If your son is being heavily recruited by a D1 school, but at this point in time they don't have any money freed up, if you commit to play for the school without money, do you sign any form of letter of intent or is it all word of mouth and trust? Just to clarify, he has met with the RC and the HC.
2Catchersons, if there is no scholarship being offered, any "letter of intent" will only be an institutional letter of intent or "letter of commitment", and will be worth only what the coach's word is worth. As you probably know, without a scholarship your son is at risk of not being on the 35-man roster when the season starts, unless the coach is going to "promise" that roster spot in his letter of commitment (and even then, it's no guarantee.)
SOONER, that is horrible. Some coaches are like snake oil salesman. IF your son has the level of ability to warrant that type of offer from Marshall then I beleive you can get another D1 to get you another offer. I doubt anyone has enough moneyleft over to offer you a full ride but it is better to go where you are really wanted and pay 50% than to go where you are not at any price.
Please keep us posted on your efforts to find a school for your son.
Cabbagedad, my gut feeling is they had over-extended themselves with offers to recruits and probably felt they got another player that is better. I just found out from a source that the coaches recruited 20 JUCO players for this year and probably ran out of money for my son. I don't know how that works, I guess they can rob from next year's kitty to pay for this year.
To all, thanks so much for your thoughts and good wishes. When we found out the news late yesterday evening we immediately started contacting a couple of his former travel coaches who are highly regarded. They started reaching out to schools he identified having interest in or who they knew still have holes in their recruiting rosters. fortunately, he is already having communications with some prospective D1 schools. We felt it was important to start the networking immediately. We are crossing our fingers there will be good match with whom he will like as a school. The most important thing is making sure he feels and will be happy in wherever he goes.
Great that you have that support. Good luck to your son!
Sorry to hear. Best that it happened now instead down the road. There is still time for him to find a good baseball home. Learn from the past, move forward in the best positive way and as hard as it might be, don't hold a grudge. That will say boatloads about his character. Remember, you're trying to find a new home and nobody wants to hear the negitives from the past. Hopefully he will get a shot someday to prove they made a mistake. Good luck!
Thanks for sharing this unfortunate but "real world" experience with the rest of us.
Like others have said, you are not too late to find another option that will hopefully in the end be much better for him. With your son talented enough to have gotten a full ride offer initially, he will still wind up with at least some of the college cost covered in a program that really wants him. And as a 17 year old, he learned an incredible life lesson about how ruthless certain people are so that he can really appreciate how important it is to live with honesty and integrity.
This shows you what a buyer beware world this thing is. We always tell players to "go where you are loved." Love in the moment is all well and good, but you also have to ask the Carol King question. "Will you still love me, tomorrow?" Damned hard to determine that in advance.
Backstop22 and Picked off, ya'll couldn't have put it or said it any better! Great words of wisdom and advice! He does have incredible character and it just got stronger. We really appreciate everyone's thoughts here. I just wanted to share this experience because we are parents that were all new to this recruiting process. We've been to several recruiting 101 seminars and nothing like this was ever discussed. I hope this helps other parents like us who are having to define their journey and trying to avoid or sense where the landmines could be. If the coaches are not communicating or trying to dodge connecting with you parents, I don't care if it is a head or assistant coach, there is a problem! Don't buy on the presumption that they only want to have dialogue with the player! You got to have engagement with the coaches. Our gut instincts was trying to tell us this early on, but we just couldn't believe that to be the case with such a great offer.
SluggerDad posted:This shows you what a buyer beware world this thing is. We always tell players to "go where you are loved." Love in the moment is all well and good, but you also have to ask the Carol King question. "Will you still love me, tomorrow?" Damned hard to determine that in advance.
My son is learning that the hard way as well. When a coach tells you that you are his "number 1 prospect at X position"....you need to add the word "today" to the end of his sentence.
Sooner, sorry to hear about the bad deal your son got. Hopefully the "one door closes and another opens" mantra applies here and he will find an even better opportunity.
SluggerDad posted:This shows you what a buyer beware world this thing is. We always tell players to "go where you are loved." Love in the moment is all well and good, but you also have to ask the Carol King question. "Will you still love me, tomorrow?" Damned hard to determine that in advance.
Very good point, and sometimes that has a lot to do with the player when he shows up and sometimes not, as described in this most recent scenario.
I have to wonder if Sooner's son would have been the recruit to get the axe if his offer and recruiting communication had come from the Head Coach rather than the Asst. Coach. Also wonder if the Asst. Coach might feel like he's been somewhat "thrown under the bus" by the HC.
I know a kid (had him in pre showcase travel) who was recruited to a D1 by the assistant coach in charge of recruiting. The assistant was a former head coach from a local D2. He knew all about the local talent. He probably would have recruited the kid to his D2 powerhouse.
The kid got to the D1 and never saw the field. Not even in a 20-0 game. He never traveled. He was an end of the roster player.
In the recruiting process the head coach never saw him play. When the kid showed up in the fall the head coach didn't like his game. The kid went to the head coach after not playing in the 20-0 game. The coach told him he could continue to practice with the team. But he would not be played. His scholarship wou,d not be renewed.
This was the only D1 offer the kid received. Recruiting coach coming off head coaching D2 ball recruited him. I had told a good friend I felt the kid had peaked and was probably a D2 player.
The kid transferred to a local D1 without a scholarship offer. A combination of too much talent ahead of him and an injury kept him from ever playing a college game.
The team has had a horrible record. Neither the hard coach or the assistant were there three years later. To me, the kid was a victim of being recruited by an assistant who misjudged potential D1 potential.
Rick at Informed Athlete posted:I have to wonder if Sooner's son would have been the recruit to get the axe if his offer and recruiting communication had come from the Head Coach rather than the Asst. Coach. Also wonder if the Asst. Coach might feel like he's been somewhat "thrown under the bus" by the HC.
I happen to feel the same way.
As I stated above, the offer needs to come directly from the HC or his associate coach, also can be called the associate HC. Keep in mind that the HC is the one who ultimately gives out that money and sign his name on your sons NLI.
Couple of questions. When you mention full ride, are you talking full athletic. That makes no sense to me as the minimum is 25%, that's 4 for the price of one. Also, coaches don't redshirt players, unless it is for medical reasons. And coaches don't give 5 year scholarships, again, unless there is an injury issue and then it's a waiver. Redshirt only designates eligibility.
My opinion has always been that if someone promises your son he will make the team, play right away or be a 2 way player, 2 years before they show up, turn around and run in the other direction. All players entering a program are made to understand they have to work for their position. Even the top guys.
My take is they sat down to crunch numbers and if your son really was getting 100% athletic, someone said uh oh, who goes first. Because your son hasn't signed his NLI or is essentially unproven as a D1 player, it more than likely was him.
I fell badly for what has happened. All I know is that coaches as a whole are very honest, they have reputations to uphold, and you just brought that program to a lower level than it really wants to be in. That's OK, I don't blame you.
Sometimes things aren't supposed to be. Hopefully your son will rise above the challenge and find a better place to play and go to earn his degree.
Rick and TPM, both of you bring up valid points in my view. I guess it may have made a difference if we had had a chance to sit down with the HC as we were promised would happen. I don't want to elaborate but I did have time in our first visit to meet the HC and he told me that if we were serious they would provide an offer we couldn't refuse. BTW - my son already had an 80% offer from another D1 school and was being seriously pursued by others. I don't think they knew this but maybe that's why they tempted with the all-expenses paid offer ( why I called it a full ride). We got a call from the AC on a Friday evening and he basically said he didn't want to twist our arm but he had another player in the wings who they were considering and he wanted us to get the better numbers before he gets it. He said we had till Sunday to give him our answer since the other player was not going to make his decision until he returned from a visit to another school. We weren't presented with any opportunity to sit down with the HC. I guess he let his AC do the dirty work and you are probably right that they threw him under the bus. All I can tell you it was poorly handled on their part and very discourteous. I do know of other players who have been given offers from ACs from other schools and they were honored all the way through, so I went in this believing what was being told to me as being truthful and upfront. As you say, there are a lot of good coaches out there and I totally agree.
As I said, all your points are good. I just wanted to stress that no matter who you are dealing with as a coach, make sure there is continued communications, if not, it is a omen!
SoonerThanLater posted:To all, thanks so much for your thoughts and good wishes. When we found out the news late yesterday evening we immediately started contacting a couple of his former travel coaches who are highly regarded. They started reaching out to schools he identified having interest in or who they knew still have holes in their recruiting rosters. fortunately, he is already having communications with some prospective D1 schools. We felt it was important to start the networking immediately. We are crossing our fingers there will be good match with whom he will like as a school. The most important thing is making sure he feels and will be happy in wherever he goes.
Above is the best post in this thread. Things will work out for your son if he is driven.
Sooner,
You have brought some good information to the table to share for those who are going thru the process or will one day.
Things to remember. The best offer isn't the one with the most money awarded. The best offer is not one with promises. Never accept an offer unless you speak to the HC. Make it your business to take an unofficial visit to meet everyone, including the academic advisors, trainers, etc.
For early commits, keep it among friends. Don't share how much your commitment is. And if the coaches aren't keeping in touch, than you call. That's part of a coaches job, to keep the interest going.
And don't give into pressure. Telling a recruit that if they don't take the offer they will give it to someone else to get you to commit isn't always a good thing. If they really want you, if you are their A recruit, they will give time. Maybe not forever, but if they say they won't, do you really want to to have these guys be your sons mentors?
The above may not all pertain to Sooner's sons situation.
I am still not sure what all expenses paid means. Where these offers all athletic?
Let me just say....you are not alone. When all is said and done I will share the ups and downs of our recruiting experiences. I will agree that when one door closes another opens so keep the faith!!!
Man, what a story....i certainly hope your son is given another chance at another school. This is the textbook reason folks continue to reiterate the school always has the leverage, not the kid. I believe this case is an outlier as most programs are "better" than this.
Sooner,
We had a very similar situation happen a bunch of years ago. A D1 school had been recruiting my son for a while and the RC eventually offered. A couple weeks later we got a meeting with the HC. We're sitting in the HC's office and we come the realization he knows very little about my son and his recruiting situation with other schools. The RC was young and new, and didn't do a good job of keeping the HC updated. We could tell there was friction between the two coaches and we were caught in the middle. To make a long story short, the lesson we learned was never to assume the RC, PC and HC are on the same page.
The following year the RC was gone and the HC was actively involved in recruiting at that D1. The year after that the HC was fired, and is now a HC at a lower baseball level. Things happen for a reason, and that meeting was the turning point in my son's recruiting path. The former HC was bad mouthing some other programs that actually revealed a situation that my son was most interested in and would eventually go with. Serendipity.
Things can get blurred between coaches. My son is being recruited by a particular school. He has had a good relationship with the RC and the HC and had built one with the pitching coach. There have been ongoing discussions and the coaches have seen him more than once. The PC retired and a new one was hired. When we went to a prospect camp at this school recently the HC spoke to my son and then turned him over to the PC. The new PC is a fantastic coach and seems to be a great guy, but it was obvious that he knew nothing about my son other than what he learned by rushing up to the office to do some research after seeing him pitch (that's exactly what he told us he did). He seemed to like what he saw, but it was obvious that there had been no discussions about him and no information passed along. This could be a red flag or just a byproduct of how extremely busy D1's are during July. Either way, it certainly felt like my 2018 was back to square one with this school.
Interesting perspective from ROOTHOG about the interaction among the coaches and how much they may actually talk amongst each other about prospects that at least one of them has been actively recruiting. I guess it is understandable in his case with a coaching change, and it would be more worrisome if it was the HC who was new and his son was starting over. But it does get you thinking that there may not be much coordination among the various coaches until it gets very close to an offer.
Another issue we've experienced is with the different coaches attending showcases. My 2017 got some pretty genuine interest from the HCs of two D3's based on what they saw of him at the HF and Stanford camps in late June. They exchanged multiple e-mails and my son let them know that he would be at another showcase later in the Summer where each of the schools would be represented by ACs. When he attended the showcase, he introduced himself to each of the AC's of these schools and mentioned his communication with the HC, but neither of them said much beyond "nice to meet you" and that was the end of the exchanges over the weekend (and there was easy access with the coaches and players around the field all weekend). That spoke volumes to us that either the HC has lost interest or there was no communication or list of prospects the HC is considering provided to the ACs.
In our case, my son is making one last outreach to these HCs to determine if they still have any interest in him before he includes either school in a planned visit to the area next month. But the level of "noninterest" shown by the ACs made a negative impression on my son that these schools may not really be that genuine in their interest if the HC never told the AC to watch and interact with him. Consequently, these schools have moved down his candidate list and may soon be dropped altogether. Another indicator of how important it is to make sure that all of the coaches are showing the same level of interest in your son before you assume there is real interest in recruiting him.
We're obviously in the minority here. My son met the RC in person for the first time on a Tuesday during an unofficial visit (HC had just had surgery and couldn't make it). RC was also PC....came to watch my son throw Wednesday afternoon. Emailed him after the game said "call me in the morning". Son called, got offered....and accepted. It all happened within about a 48 hour period....all without ever meeting the HC. Didn't meet him until the official visit in October. Fortunately it worked out for him....no issues.
Sooner it sounds like your son has a great head on his shoulders and is getting solid guidance from you and will be fine. Are you in Oklahoma?
roothog66 posted:Things can get blurred between coaches. My son is being recruited by a particular school. He has had a good relationship with the RC and the HC and had built one with the pitching coach. There have been ongoing discussions and the coaches have seen him more than once. The PC retired and a new one was hired. When we went to a prospect camp at this school recently the HC spoke to my son and then turned him over to the PC. The new PC is a fantastic coach and seems to be a great guy, but it was obvious that he knew nothing about my son other than what he learned by rushing up to the office to do some research after seeing him pitch (that's exactly what he told us he did). He seemed to like what he saw, but it was obvious that there had been no discussions about him and no information passed along. This could be a red flag or just a byproduct of how extremely busy D1's are during July. Either way, it certainly felt like my 2018 was back to square one with this school.
This is not a situation that is new to reruiting.
This same situation happened to son during recruiting. His #1 was Miami, the pitching coach left and the new and current PC had no clue who son was. By the time he called back son was aleady committed to Clemson.
2catchersons posted:Question on the same line....If your son is being heavily recruited by a D1 school, but at this point in time they don't have any money freed up, if you commit to play for the school without money, do you sign any form of letter of intent or is it all word of mouth and trust? Just to clarify, he has met with the RC and the HC.
Nothing to sign, Son went thru that. Basically was told he had a spot on team (D1). History said that college he was going to honored that so with no athletic scholarship offers to D! he accepted. He happened to have a crazy wonderful senior HS season when he got noticed by MLB scouts, other colleges made him athletic scholarship offers and then the original college found money with someone not returning.
Reality is without a LOI for athletic scholarship, he is like any other student from a financial aid point of view and can change his mind and go anywhere he is accepted and wants to go. I do believe your word is a commitment and son would never have looked at another school until they came knocking at his door with significant $ difference than where he was at. As I said original school came up with $ to make it well worth him staying right where he wanted to be all along