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Ozzie,

McCarthy can't pitch at this level this year. Painfully obvious. Change of leggings (?)from high socks to pajamas and back again, don't/doesn't work. He's a 2 pitch pitcher and he can't pitch effectively.

Anderson...Can't hit...painfully obvious to anyone who watches games.

Tell Pablo it is ok to take a pitch.

About 20 to go.

Bench Anderson and McCarthy. They'll be ok down the road, but not for the last 20 games!

jp
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It is painfully obvious, the game is about pitching and it just isn't there this year. I don't think you can blame the hitters. Compare the ERAs from the guys on the staff who were there last year. We turn the TV off when Cotts comes in, doing the same with McCarthy now. Garcia & Buerhle are really tough to watch-not the same pitchers they were last year. Too many stressful innings last October!
nc42dad:

You made some excellent points along with some good observations...I still think the White Sox can make a run for the playoffs and even the division...but they're going to have to improve...bring their game up to the level they're capable of.

I share your feelings about being frustrated and having a difficult time watching or listening to the games...it's not like they weren't expected to be in the hunt...they're World Champions!
Last edited by gotwood4sale
White Sox
Stat 2005 Pre-AS 2005 Post-AS 2006 Pre-AS 2006 Post-AS
AVE 0.262 0.263 0.288 0.281
OBP 0.323 0.322 0.354 0.333
SLG 0.420 0.431 0.476 0.463
ERA 3.62 3.60 4.44 4.73

Twins
Stat 2006 Pre-AS 2006 Post-AS
AVE 0.277 0.293
OBP 0.342 0.354
SLG 0.415 0.449
ERA 4.36 3.70

Detroit
Stat 2006 Pre-AS 2006 Post-AS
AVE 0.274 0.272
OBP 0.330 0.320
SLG 0.458 0.422
ERA 3.46 3.96

Sox are a much better hitting team than last year. However, don't let these stats fool you. They don't show the Sox inconsistency in RS/game. When you put up 8-9 runs in game, and come back with a goose egg, or 1-2 runs, it doesn't get you Ws. Although Sox didn't hit as well last year, their RS/game were much more consistent. I believe this is attributable to the continual changes Oz makes in the lineup, as well as the much better pitching in the division this year.

Pitching this year for the Sox blows. Nothing more needs to be said about that.

Regarding the Tigers and Twins, the Tigers have been getting done all year with their pitching although it has fallen off for them since the AS break a bit. The Twins, give them their props, they have been the best hitting and pitching team in the AL.

Put a fork in it.
Last edited by Tuzigoot
Sox are getting closer to first, if not the wild card. Detroit is in serious trouble.

The Sox were terrible at this time last year and we all remember what happened. They are not playing good baseball, but some years you don't have to be great to win it.

Who, in all the Major Leagues has a really deep pitching staff? Take it from a Cub fan, The Sox aren't playing well at all but they are still in the hunt.
We've heard for a few years now that we wanted to use speed, manufacture runs, etc. It appears we are back to the same old scenario- wait for the 3 run homer. How many games have we lost because we could not bunt the guy over, put the ball in play, move the runner over. Seems like the Twins beat us doing exactly that. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems the way to beat the Sox is keep them from going LONG- maybe that is why it is 8 runs one game and 1 run the next! The poor Cubs don't appear to be able to score either way. But I agree, at least we are in the hunt which is better than the alternative.
Sox are probably going to come back from CA 2-4, 3-3 at best. Both the Angels and As staffs are getting it done almost 1 ERA less than the Sox. Couple this, with the fact these games are on the road against two teams that would like to put a beat down on the Sox, considering last years history between these teams. Finally, the majority of the Tigers games are at home against cupcakes, while the Twins are playing nothing but cupcakes too, Bal, Bos, Cle and KC.

Its been sick to watch this team play for the last two months. Mismanagement by Ozzie, and 80% of the pitching staff that can't get the job done.

Coop, how does almost the entire staff not get the job done???? This staff has been practically injury free all season long!!!

I'll take the Bears over the Lions, and Vikings
Beenthere:

Pablo will be in touch, he could alway's use a guru to get him up over that lousy .335 average.

What don't you like about Anderson hitting .285 since the break and .300 over the past 60 day's????????

If Anderson had played EVERY game in center we'd be tied with the Tigger's. You were correct in harassing Anderson for his lousy 1st 1/2. You are now incorrect as he has turned it around. Playing winter ball, imo, will take care of any offensive problem's

Pitching has been the # 1 game to blame with our Sox.
quote:
Beenthere:

Pablo will be in touch, he could alway's use a guru to get him up over that lousy .335 average.

What don't you like about Anderson hitting .285 since the break and .300 over the past 60 day's????????

If Anderson had played EVERY game in center we'd be tied with the Tigger's. You were correct in harassing Anderson for his lousy 1st 1/2. You are now incorrect as he has turned it around. Playing winter ball, imo, will take care of any offensive problem's

Pitching has been the # 1 game to blame with our Sox.


----------

Sox...We watch the games from 2 dramatically different sets of eyes. Obviously, the Sox finally have come to their senses and are playing a rookie in centerfield during crunch time. Sox screwed up all year in centerfield and his improvement in average belies the quality of the at-bats and the "hits" given to him by the homer in the press box. Patterson was available and so was Preston Wilson.

I like the guy down the road, but he wasn't ready in May and he's not ready now in September---when it matters most.

Interesting that you should point out Pablo's.....335....Considering he was hitting 400-500 for a long time...means he's in the low 200's when it matters...in August and September. Unless the 1st pitch of the at bat is thrown into the dugout, he's swinging. How does that help a club down 1 or 2 runs in these big games?

When Ozzie finally figures out that McCarthy does nothing in key situations, the Sox will be fine. He is a "big stiff"...doesn't matter what he does with his uniform pants!

I want them (the Sox) to win every game and I agree that the Tigers have folded and will continue to fold down the stretch.

I agree with Fastball when he said in an earlier post that it will come down to the 3 game series at the end of the season with the Twins.

Two teams will be happy and one will be hugely disappointed!
Last edited by BeenthereIL
BTIL,

With all due respect, I don't think you allow yourself to ever change your mind.

If these 2 guy's aren't good enough after what they have accomplished, I give up trying to convince you.

Pablo, btw, should be allowed 1 bad stretch considering his PT....and that bad stretch was at the end of July through the first week of August. Lately he is back to his solid and sometimes spectacular self.

Ozzie will not be the one to preach patience to Pablo. The OZ NEVER saw a pitch he didn't like!

For the record I think the 2 playoff teams will be decided prior to the last 3 games.
Soxnole,
You're engaging in sterotypical, hostile behavior in your assessment of Wrigleyville, it doesn't matter if your assessment is correct. I just completed sensitivitry awarenes training at my work so I thought I'd make an effort to use my new skills here. I hope you learn that teasing cub fans is cruel and could cause them to develop some sort of previously unidentified horrible syndrome that requires years of therapy to fix.

BTIL,
I agree about Sweeney, my oldest son (tried to) hit against him a few years ago in Iowa. He was awesome as a pitcher and really had great mound presence to go with a great arm.

Now to the point, the Sox are getting ready to take over the division. We have Det and Minn right where we want them. Ozzie and Kenny's master plan should be kicking in this week and it will all come together. I can hardly wait for the playoffs to get started so the Sox can rattle of a 11-0 run just to show everyone that last years 11-1 run was no fluke. Good times!
Great post HSDad!

I particularly like your points regarding the san francisco like section of Chicago, also known to the small percentage of straight cub fans as "wrigleyville". Most of the local's actually call it "boystown". Tom Tunney is working on the new moniker "Liberaceburg"!

They have several syndrome's already. Guess I'll let them explore thier existing therapy!

10 in a row is right around the corner!
Last edited by soxnole
Like your optimism HSdad but got a kick out of the "master plan" comment. I'm sure you were joking.
I guarantee a dominant Serier winner that picks up Thome, MacDougal,Vazquez, and Mackowiak that stays very healthy and has monster years from 4 hitters wasn't planning on nail-biting and scoreboard watching with two weeks to go. Especially with the best and deepest staff in baseball. Oops.
Check history and usually you'll find when prior champ misses playoffs the following season there were either unloading of payroll/free agent losses, retirements, and also injuries or contract haggling in season. Sox had none of the above.
Hoping the Sox make playoffs as new season of network tv menu looks very weak. If they don't, a monumental choke job or at best a huge disappointment. Cubs were eliminated by June so if Sox are sitting home in October, who had the better season? Has to be the Cubs as they got lots of playing time for their young non-talent and outdrew the Sox by 3000 per night.
Should be an interesting few weeks here.
Of course is Denis right. People have forgotten about the Cubs already this year. If the sox continue their choke job, fans will not be forgiving and time is getting away from them. All proof that last year was a shot in the dark.

At least the Cubs will have some experienced youth to show for their failure.

Cubs...World Series Champs 2008, 2009, 2010.
Last edited by itsrosy
Most teams have a small window to grab a few titles and the Sox are/were in one of those windows. The title is awesome achievement and in the vault forever.
However, it is in the past. Bears fans were furious after team bungled thier 5-6 year window of opportunity to win it all. Still to this day thrilled with the title but things move on. Didn't the great Mike Ditka say "the past is for cowards and losers".
I can tell you the 6 title "high" went away quickly for the Bulls. Maybe the Sox can avoid that type of thing and be in the hunt for a while.
And you're right, the Cubs were eliminated in April. Believe I posted in June the Cubs could finish worse than Royals - still a shot and then a #1 pick for Hendry. If it all pans out and they continue trend with other top picks I expect to see this #1 get a Sept. callup in 2011.
Denis:

As much as you and I agree on things in general:


I'm still enjoying the Bull's 6 titles.

Love to reflect on Marino spoiling the Bears perfect season, putting them forever behind the 72 fins.

My dolphins enjoyed 3 straight trips to the Super Bowl. Those NFL films are GREAT.

I thoroughly enjoy the memories afforded by the 59 Sox.The replay of Big Klu going deep..WOW!

The 15 year Florida State Football Dynasty was almost as good as the 59 and 06 Sox.

Bobby Bowden and Mike Martin's winning percentages are just so darned satisfying!

Last year will never be topped by anything in my own personal memory vault since the Sox have alway's been my first love.

Heck, I take special pride that the Sox were World Champs in 06.......1906!

So, for me, no matter what happens this year, it's been great following this teriffic, if under achieving 06 team. Plus, they will challenge for years to come.

It's not like I'll have to wait forever like you poor cub fans!

Finally Ditka has the brain of a good size eggplant! To revel in past glories is sublime, not cowardly (makes no sense like most of what double digit IQ Mike has to say) or the predicament of a loser......he and all of us know who the "losers" are in this town!

What can you expect from a guy who played in wrigley?!
Agree as I still enjoy savoring past titles. But also big on what's happening right now. Sox could still win division but missing playoffs to me would still be big letdown. Just a few digs and thoughts from a jealous and bitter Cub fan.

With you on Ditka also. An icon, idiot, and an ego to match Bonds/Big Hurt combined. Some of the best radio I've ever heard was his show on the Score the year he was fired. Usually was intoxicated & angry. Called people the wrong name constantly and slurred every other word. Will never forget him challenging Neal from Northlake to a fight and giving his office address and inviting him up to whup his ***.
My take.

Ditka isn't a bad guy, he's just an idiot.

Bonds gets the prize because he's a complete jerk with a brain.

Poor Frank...just have never seen him where he could be put in a category anywhere near Bonds....and he appears to be the smartest of the 3. Even Konerko spoke well of him yesterday.He has certainly stuffed cotton in KW's mouth!
All the reports say Frank has been a model teammate in Oakland. Impressive numbers at his age especially considering the time off and the injuries. Also doing it clean most likely unlike others of his era.
A better pr guy, more "no comments", and union workers at his mansion and he'd be up there with Jordan & Payton in fans eyes. Deserves it and also HOF with his numbers.
Last year Ozzie, Coop and Kenny were the holy trinity.

This year the 3 stooges.

The truth = somewhere in the middle, closer to the HT. Blame it on the player's particularly Thome and the middle relief. McCarthy especially.

Last year Big Frank was a has been.

This year, except for Derek Jeter, he is in line for a regular season or world series MVP!

MeMe Ortiz, J.Dye and Justin M. notwithstanding.
I posted a few times last year that what you were seeing 'last year' was a fairy tale. It was - but I was dead wrong at how long it would last.
Amazingly, it lasted into and thru WS title. This year, Oz is making same silly moves, Joey is waving everyone at stupid times, Coop/AJ calling same pitches with same pitchers, offense is improved. The above just aren't working out this year.
BUT, you take away about 18 of 25 career years, lots of bad calls going your way, and lots of luck and what you have is reality.
May be contenders for a few years but pitching staff threw miles over it's head last year. Every blooper fell in, every mistake hit in stands etc. etc. Column about Hawk in Sun-Times was dead on. Very disappointing season and team appears satisfied, no fire anywhere.
More questions for Sox going into offseason than Cubs. Cubs just bad and nowhere to go but up. What do the Sox do? You're still very good but lots of guys to make decisions on.
Anyways, fantastic weekend for me. 3 days at beautiful Kalahari resort in Wis, great food and weather, NIU football wins, Notre Dame gets humiliated at home, Bears win, Packers lose again at home. Almost forgot, Sox now lost 4 straight and look like a dismal 2nd half will keep hoped for dynasty out of playoffs.
Feel bad for Sox players as they all seem to be genuinely good, nice guys. The true, hard-core fans such as Btil & soxnole should have seen another playoff with all this talent. But for all the non-Sox fans who jumped on bandwagon in September 05 - get lost.
Whoa, whoa, wait a minute.......

Konerko refuses to go to right field as does most of the hitters (I don't care if some of them are there for their "power", you need to get guys on base and then get them home), Uribe just plain 'sucks' as a hitter (you should never let anyone with a stance and swing like his get in the batters box....he can't even stand-up after each swing - no balance). Anderson should have sat for a while, or been sent down to the minors. Cotts, Jenks, all of your starters, have struggled at some point this year, if not most of the season. Most of the small-ball, situational type hitting is not there like last year. How can you leave so many runners on base?????? Your not winning the 1 run games like last year, and your staff has blown some games with big leads.

The talent is there. They look tired, not enthusiastic, and Ozzie's sensativity training has really taken the "fire" out of these guys. I hate to say it, but it's over!!!! I hope they can a least win the "wild card", but it doesn't look good at all.
Probably most teams who win championships are like last years' sox.....everything goes your way, multiple players have career years and you think they are team team to end all teams. When things go back to normal, fans think the players just don't have the fire, they are "fat" from last year. Maybe to some degree that is true. The truth is the sox are a very solid team, but one that has lots of warts just like just about every other team.

Some decisions to make.....get younger? Let Ozzie be Ozzie? Shortly they have to deal with many positions.....3b free angency looms with Crede, SS..Uribe is nothing more than a journeyman (exhibit 1A for 2004 career year) 2B with Iguchi being very average. Stuck with Konerko at 1B (ok if you like his bat, but if not, you have 2 DH's) LF..they don't have one. CF....Anderson may be the guy in a year or two. RF..Dye is obviously good enough for now. I still think the punk behind home plate could be a big negative in a tough situation just like he has been evrywhere else. To me the only really solid pitcher they can count on for several years is Garland, he has developed into a very fine pitcher. The rest of them are either old, mediocre or still at the "potential" stage. Will Reinsdorf continue to spend, or does he believe spendign didn't win this year so go back to business as usual?

Kenny Williams has some work to do or we will be back to being a Cub town again. Steve Stone says the Cubs are a couple of players away from contending next year. Maybe a couple of postion players and a couple of starting pitchers is more like it.

One more thing......is there anything sadder than seeing all the empty seats in the fall after your team is out of it? The Cell was pretty empty before the last out last night. And Wrigley has had many empty seats for quite a while.
FB....come on.....

Iguchi has few peers.

Uribe is as good as it gets defensively.

Contreras will be solid for another 3 years.

Vasquez has been steady in crunch time.

Fields seems ready to play 3rd.

Pierzynski is the real deal, wannabe gator or not!

Biggest mistake was keeping McCarthy who might have brought Soriano.

2nd biggest was and is Oz putting Mackowiak in center.....EVER!

You are right about one thing...they got fat.

In 2006, it happens.

The biggest issue in the last 3 weeks (crunch time)....is the woeful performance of Jim Thome.

I find it hilarious (and a bit racist) that he has not been taken to task by the media.

Iguchi has a bad play and everyone jumps on it...tv, radio...newspapers.

Thome fails miserably at the most important time and nothing is said!

Glad you at least admit this is now a Sox town.

and we will be there contending for years to come.

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