I've seen a few discussions/responses lately that made me question how much is nature vs. nurture in actual MPH. It is widely accepted that some people are genetically better suited to throw 100 MPH, not everyone is actually capable of doing that. So, in general what are most people CAPABLE of throwing?
What IN YOUR OPINION is the highest MPH a player can be coached/trained into achieving, without being a genetically special person?
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I was thinking about this same thing the other day while watching a SEC scrimmage. 100 mph, in my opinion, leans more toward genetics (maybe 75% genetics) than throwing 90. With 90 mph....I am going with 50/50 on genetics and form/hard work.
I have 3 sons who played baseball growing up. All three from the same father and mother, and a somewhat athletic family tree. Grandfather was a college gymnast, father was a college tennis player, and mother was a swimmer and runner. Only one of my sons threw over 90mph. I think it has more to do with a genetics base (athleticism and fast twitch fibers) that you have no control over, and a lot of hard work developing the right mechanics for your body. Everybody has a unique way of throwing an object that is comfortable to them. It is trial & error, tweaking and understanding how your body works best.
I've been to enough pitching clinics, lessons, sessions to know that 90mph does not happen by accident. Somebody shows you how to best use what you already have, and then you work really hard to get there. I've seen 100mph close up only a few times in my life, and I think it is just more of the same. One of the pitchers (John Rocker...remember that knucklehead) I suspect was taking PEDs. He had a unique way of delivering a baseball as opposed to Nolan Ryan who leveraged his legs much more. It is a God given ability that someone is fortunate enough to develop. 75/25 seems like the right ratio to me. When you throw in nutrition and modern day exercising I think a few of those folks that were throwing 90mph+ now have the potential to hit 100mph. It is unbelievable what athletes are able to do now both in terms of extending their capabilities and careers. If you saw the Australian Open tennis tournament you had 4 mens semi-finalists over 30 years old and 2 women finalists in their mid-30s. This never happened before, and it was not an accident.
Thanks for the replies but I was hoping for more of a:
"You can teach almost anyone to throw XX MPH, but XX MPH can't be taught to just anyone."
It's an interesting premise, and one I think that may have changed a bit over recent years. Old school thought was you were either born with the ability to throw 90, or you weren't. However I think some of the more modern training regimens have called that belief into question. I don't think they would claim that anyone can throw 90 - but perhaps through the proper training far more can than was previously believed.
With that said, proper training requires a lot of time and dedication. That is always going to be part of the equation. Also it has to be considered that most of the participants in modern throwing programs aren't just some guy plucked off the streets. These are guys who were already very athletic, which eliminates a huge section of the general population. In other words, a player who would even embark on the training required to get to 90 is probably genetically special from the outset.
It will be interesting to see if Kyle makes an appearance in this thread. I would think he probably has some data that would give some insight one way or another.
CaCO3Girl posted:Thanks for the replies but I was hoping for more of a:
"You can teach almost anyone to throw XX MPH, but XX MPH can't be taught to just anyone."
I doubt you will ever find that answer. Everyone has a genetic ceiling for velocity but nobody has a clue what it is. You may have the genetic ceiling to throw 95 but you're not going to reach that unless you work towards it. Nobody is going to go out there and throw 95 right off the bat. Like someone said above it's a 50 / 50 mix between the two.
We have already discussed this Caco but I will weigh in for the group. First ceiling is of course 100% genetic that is obvious and can't be disputed. So the question is what is that ceiling and how do you get there? Then what pool are we using (as a scientist I am sure you appreciate that). If you simply take every male born in the US i would guess its 70 or below. All high school baseball players? travel ballers? What is our focus group? So for the sake of argument I will use a very vague decent travel ball pitcher as my group. I think its 80-84. I think there are a lot of dedicated guys that simply will not reach 90. Now the devils advocate might say what if the kid quit everything else he did to just focus on pitching and dedicated every waking moment to reaching 90mph. Could he do it? I don't know. We may never know. Bottom line other than that last extraordinary example of dedicating ones whole life to something I think velocity is at least 90/10 genetics.
I'll bite.....You can teach almost any healthy 18 year old male to throw 70 mph, but 80+ mph can't be taught to just anyone. Back to my Sunday SEC scrimmage.....saw lots of pitchers and they sure come in all sizes.....from 5' 10" 180 throwing 87 to a 6'5" 230 guy throwing 87 who looked like he should be on the football field.
Rob T posted:It's an interesting premise, and one I think that may have changed a bit over recent years. Old school thought was you were either born with the ability to throw 90, or you weren't. However I think some of the more modern training regimens have called that belief into question. I don't think they would claim that anyone can throw 90 - but perhaps through the proper training far more can than was previously believed.
With that said, proper training requires a lot of time and dedication. That is always going to be part of the equation. Also it has to be considered that most of the participants in modern throwing programs aren't just some guy plucked off the streets. These are guys who were already very athletic, which eliminates a huge section of the general population. In other words, a player who would even embark on the training required to get to 90 is probably genetically special from the outset.
It will be interesting to see if Kyle makes an appearance in this thread. I would think he probably has some data that would give some insight one way or another.
Love the idea of Kyle weighing in. Would love to know if they have ever had some kid - hard worker, dedicated - throwing mid 70's as a freshman or sophomore who did everything they asked religiously and just couldn't ever get much past 80. I just think 90 is not god given to most people no matter how hard they work at it.
I believe that everyone has a ceiling and that ceiling is different for each. That ceiling is based on genetics (Nature).
I also believe that Nurture determines what potential of that ceiling will be reached. There are people that have a ceiling of 100 mph who never picked up a baseball. There are others who have that ceiling that play who may have only reached a fraction of their ceiling. Others have achieved close to their ceiling through hard work and training.
I believe that very few actually ever reach their potential. The continued growth and development of the sport today is helping more people come closer to reaching their potential, which is why I believe we all see the averages creeping higher every year.
I also believe that this transcends all athletics. 60 times, 100 times, swimming, vertical jumps, etc. when it comes to purely timed and measured athleticism. Now, what an athlete does with those skills has much to do about nurture and instinct.
Add in desire and all of the above is what ultimately separates average from good, good from great, and great from GOAT.
An interesting read on the subject of Genetics / Work & Determination is: "The Sports Gene;" Written by David Epstein. He also has a "Ted Talk," on the subject of Increases In Athletic Performance. Well worth the time if you want to dig deep on this subject.
First of all there is no number that can be guaranteed to anyone. Most young kids will never throw 80 MPH. Many young kids are capable of throwing 90 MPH. And there are some that work much less to throw 90 and some that work much harder to throw 80.
Really it is like running speed in some ways. Everyone can improve with training, technique, etc., but some will end up running much faster than others.
Usually there is a starting point... Some type of clue as to what someone might be capable of. There will be some that far surpass what you might think is possible. And some that will never reach their potential.
Everyone has a ceiling. Some simply can't throw well and have a low ceiling. There are many that will never throw 80 mph. Just like there are many that will never run a 7.00 60, no matter how much they work at it.
Bottom line... Every individual player is different. Different sport, but most could train hard forever and never come close to doing what this 6'1" Canadian guy can do. If you haven't seen this guy, you will be shocked when you watch this short video...
Follow up question - assume you got the group of decent travel ball pitchers as 2020DAD used (let assume you start at the 15u level). These guys aren't great yet (only decent) but they all focus on velocity. Some percentage of these kids will get to 90+. Out of those kids that touch 90, how many would be sought after by a top 50 program today? Stated a little differently, how many kids touching 90 these days are passed on by top 50 programs. I do not have the answer, but would state that if passed on, it is because they are unable to pitch well enough to justify a spot. Had a pitcher at our high school a few years back that touched 90 and got some interest, but ended up going JUCO because he could quite get the programs he wanted to offer - and he was a pretty good pitcher.
Getting back to the 15u group - I suspect many of those touching 90 (the only goal they were working towards) won't be effective pitchers as they either cannot throw a strike consistently or they throw straight ropes which end up getting hit over the LF wall.
Sharing a local example of what is possible in terms of "reaching a ceiling." Sam Rogers is a local football kid to us. Was not recruited by any Div. 1 football program coming out of HS. Walked on at VA Tech. Had entire playbook memorized coming in to first week. Made team & played fullback for 4 years. Currently top ranked fullback in 2017 NFL Draft projections.
One of his neighbors tells me a story about this kid. When Sam was in middle school, this Dad would be at the driveway waiting for the bus to pick up his daughter. Sam lived a few houses down. Sam would come running up the street having got off several stops early, arrive at his mailbox & check his watch. My friend asked him what he was doing & Sam would tell him he was trying to beat his record sprint home from the first bus stop.
Nature = those who have the correct technique without training
Nurture = those who need training to get the proper technique
Steve Austin. Not the Stone Cold variety, the six million dollar man. Had a good team help him achieve great mechanics.
With the right support team, anything is possible.
things such as high twitch fiber muscle, and the other I think is really important is flexibility. Some guys are just born hyper mobile and that cant be taught either. Trevor Bauer i've seen in person where my son works out in Houston a few times. He is very unassuming, looks like just a regular guy. But his mobility is off the charts. and off course he can throw high 90s, and im sure you seen the internet videos of him running and gunning an underload ball 113 mph.
SultanofSwat posted:Nature = those who have the correct technique without training
Nurture = those who need training to get the proper technique
I do like that sultan but I still don't think that second group may be able to catch that first group. Those who have it naturally are so gifted the ones who have to work for it I just don't think will ever catch up. I just go back again to our local kid who I went to grade school and high school with. Threw upper 90's in high school. When he was 12 he had to be 80+. We didn't have personal radar guns back then. Whole family were great athletes with only a couple exceptions in a family of eight. He was a natural right out of the womb. No pitching instructors no nothing. I doubt anybody ever dared even try to 'coach' his mechanics. Why would you? I just think we all want to believe so bad that with enough work we can do it too! I just don't think that's true. Hard to accept I know but we are who we are.
2020dad posted:SultanofSwat posted:Nature = those who have the correct technique without training
Nurture = those who need training to get the proper technique
I do like that sultan but I still don't think that second group may be able to catch that first group. Those who have it naturally are so gifted the ones who have to work for it I just don't think will ever catch up. I just go back again to our local kid who I went to grade school and high school with. Threw upper 90's in high school. When he was 12 he had to be 80+. We didn't have personal radar guns back then. Whole family were great athletes with only a couple exceptions in a family of eight. He was a natural right out of the womb. No pitching instructors no nothing. I doubt anybody ever dared even try to 'coach' his mechanics. Why would you? I just think we all want to believe so bad that with enough work we can do it too! I just don't think that's true. Hard to accept I know but we are who we are.
Just curious how far did the player in your example go (throwing 80 at 12 and 90s in HS) with no one really working with him? College? Minors? I suspect if he panned out you'd have shared that.
Seems like there is a kid like that in every town in the US. I know we had one where I grew up and one where I live now (not my kid he's just his catcher).
2020.2023dad posted:2020dad posted:SultanofSwat posted:Nature = those who have the correct technique without training
Nurture = those who need training to get the proper technique
I do like that sultan but I still don't think that second group may be able to catch that first group. Those who have it naturally are so gifted the ones who have to work for it I just don't think will ever catch up. I just go back again to our local kid who I went to grade school and high school with. Threw upper 90's in high school. When he was 12 he had to be 80+. We didn't have personal radar guns back then. Whole family were great athletes with only a couple exceptions in a family of eight. He was a natural right out of the womb. No pitching instructors no nothing. I doubt anybody ever dared even try to 'coach' his mechanics. Why would you? I just think we all want to believe so bad that with enough work we can do it too! I just don't think that's true. Hard to accept I know but we are who we are.
Just curious how far did the player in your example go (throwing 80 at 12 and 90s in HS) with no one really working with him? College? Minors? I suspect if he panned out you'd have shared that.
Seems like there is a kid like that in every town in the US. I know we had one where I grew up and one where I live now (not my kid he's just his catcher).
17 year MLB career. Won 20 games with the tigers. I am not saying he didn't get any 'coaching' later like at the minor league level. And I am sure his dad did some basic teaching like any dad. Just saying it was natural and I just don't place a lot of faith in instructors. Now things to make you physically stronger or more flexible I do have some faith in but still only can make you a better you - not gonna make you that guy!
P.S. Not every town has a guy like that - not by a long shot. He was number two pick overall in the draft and many thought he was going to be number one.
fenwaysouth posted:I have 3 sons who played baseball growing up. All three from the same father and mother, and a somewhat athletic family tree. Grandfather was a college gymnast, father was a college tennis player, and mother was a swimmer and runner. Only one of my sons threw over 90mph. I think it has more to do with a genetics base (athleticism and fast twitch fibers) that you have no control over, and a lot of hard work developing the right mechanics for your body. Everybody has a unique way of throwing an object that is comfortable to them. It is trial & error, tweaking and understanding how your body works best.
I've been to enough pitching clinics, lessons, sessions to know that 90mph does not happen by accident. Somebody shows you how to best use what you already have, and then you work really hard to get there. I've seen 100mph close up only a few times in my life, and I think it is just more of the same. One of the pitchers (John Rocker...remember that knucklehead) I suspect was taking PEDs. He had a unique way of delivering a baseball as opposed to Nolan Ryan who leveraged his legs much more. It is a God given ability that someone is fortunate enough to develop. 75/25 seems like the right ratio to me. When you throw in nutrition and modern day exercising I think a few of those folks that were throwing 90mph+ now have the potential to hit 100mph. It is unbelievable what athletes are able to do now both in terms of extending their capabilities and careers. If you saw the Australian Open tennis tournament you had 4 mens semi-finalists over 30 years old and 2 women finalists in their mid-30s. This never happened before, and it was not an accident.
I watched Chapman a few years ago against the Cubs in Cincinnati.
In real life you see the absolute intimidation in the hitters. You see them subconsciously defeated before the at bat begins. You see the futility of their efforts. It is an awe inspiring sight to witness.
CaCO3Girl posted:I've seen a few discussions/responses lately that made me question how much is nature vs. nurture in actual MPH. It is widely accepted that some people are genetically better suited to throw 100 MPH, not everyone is actually capable of doing that. So, in general what are most people CAPABLE of throwing?
What IN YOUR OPINION is the highest MPH a player can be coached/trained into achieving, without being a genetically special person?
If you took a random 1000 16 yr old, male and females, and trained them for 4 years to throw. I would guess the average velocity to be in the 60's for the group.
Males only I would bet 69-71
Females only 59-61
Point being I bet most males could be trained to 70ish. Anything over 70 would be above average for the general population.
Obviously a baseball population would be a bit higher.
2020dad posted:P.S. Not every town has a guy like that - not by a long shot. He was number two pick overall in the draft and many thought he was going to be number one.
That's true. Not at that level.
Teaching Elder,
Definitely, 100mph is different.
Just like your experience, I had the distinct pleasure of watching Greg Maddux warm up in the bullpen. The ball would float on air and then dart in any direction he wanted it to. Our seats were right next to the bullpen at Turner Field. Watching Maddux warm-up was worth the price of admission right there, but wait there is more. A couple hours later, we could contrast John Rocker warming up to close that same game. I've said this before and I'll say it again....I swear I heard the mitt pop before it left his hand. Unbelieveable, and he threw a really heavy ball from a strange release point. I do not know how anybody hits a guy like that because I'm not so sure he knows where it is going. I'll never forget that experience.
CaCO3Girl posted:Thanks for the replies but I was hoping for more of a:
"You can teach almost anyone to throw XX MPH, but XX MPH can't be taught to just anyone."
Okay, for arguments sake the population is 100 eleven year olds that are athletic enough to look cool in gym but none of them are running a sub 7.0 or throwing 80.
As has been stated, everyone has a genetic ceiling and if one could somehow quantify it for the human population and show results on a chart, I highly suspect the chart would show a kind of bell curve. And as complicated as our bodies are, there are many factors genetics affects that ability (e.g. body size, fast twitch muscles, coordination, mental focus, body's flesh densities to hold up under stress . . . just to name some). When all these factors come together to work effectively at performing a task, we call it "talent." As we've seen in the far past and a great deal in modern times, talent can be augmented with nutrition and physical training.
In order to say "you can teach almost anyone to throw XX MPH, but not XX MPH" (yes, I'm not direct quoting here), one would need to be able to measure and quantify all those genetic factors in on an individual basis. But even then, looking back at physical feats that were done when it was thought it was just physically not possible, shows that humans sometimes do things beyond known limits. Such extreme achievements would certainly fall to the far end of that bell curve I suggested.
So, with the idea of looking at a bell curve, I wonder what the XX MPH might be that sits at the top of that curve??? For an adult male in their prime physical time of their life (like the ages from 19 to 27), I would guess than "anyone" can be taught to through something like 75 MPH (excluding those who simply have some kind of real physical handicap, including the aging factor). Of course, many people don't need to be "taught" that, but that's those who fall further down that bell curve and we ARE addressing the term "anyone".
It's an interesting thought exercise.
someone was asking about a kid who worked very hard all the way up with throwing and trying to throw harder but was never able to break 80 mph, i somewhat fit this mold. i have been working out hard since my sophomore year and have taken it all very seriously with a driveline-esque throwing program all throughout my time training, i started out throwing about 74 mph off a mound, no pulldown velocity yet. make tweaks to the program as needed my junior year and really hit it hard as this was really my last chance to impress with some decent velocity numbers, only ended up hitting my top velocity on pulldowns at 77.9 mph. I was clocked at 77 mph off a mound at my max. currently in my senior year continuing the program with tweaks to fit me personally of course, I just had a ball register at 80 mph out of my hand for the first time ever and this was on a pulldown, it took me three years to gain about 5-6 mph. although i believe i have a lot more in me i just haven't found it. I believe there is definitely a ceiling that every player has simply based on genetics but you will never find it if you don't work hard. Just thought id share myself as somewhat of an example for those who asked about something like this
So much good information so far. I wouldn't be able to speculate more than the majority being based on genetics. Son has been called a "twitched up athlete","twitched up little guy" and even nicknamed "Squirrel". I can tell you this, i was athletic and was a basketball junkie. Mom was college cheerleader. He is better than i ever could have been and he works extremely hard in the weight room. That's when the potential was unlocked for him. I think he'd be touching 97 or 98 by now but is still a 94-95 guy now. Appendectomy fall of Senior year and then fractured wrist last year has kept him from reaching his max. We'll see how it goes and i'll let you know if he has plateau'd or continues to make gains.
I'm a believer in you nurture the nature. Schmedley McDorkface isn't going to outperform an athlete because he was trained to optimize what he has. He still may not be good enough to make the JV team. Yes, there are some kids who get by on nature. But they would most likely be a lot better if nurtured.
LHP2017 posted:someone was asking about a kid who worked very hard all the way up with throwing and trying to throw harder but was never able to break 80 mph, i somewhat fit this mold. i have been working out hard since my sophomore year and have taken it all very seriously with a driveline-esque throwing program all throughout my time training, i started out throwing about 74 mph off a mound, no pulldown velocity yet. make tweaks to the program as needed my junior year and really hit it hard as this was really my last chance to impress with some decent velocity numbers, only ended up hitting my top velocity on pulldowns at 77.9 mph. I was clocked at 77 mph off a mound at my max. currently in my senior year continuing the program with tweaks to fit me personally of course, I just had a ball register at 80 mph out of my hand for the first time ever and this was on a pulldown, it took me three years to gain about 5-6 mph. although i believe i have a lot more in me i just haven't found it. I believe there is definitely a ceiling that every player has simply based on genetics but you will never find it if you don't work hard. Just thought id share myself as somewhat of an example for those who asked about something like this
Thanks for sharing, LHP. Can you add to the equation? Did you have qualified mechanics instruction along the way? If so, was there any aspect that the instructor was trying to implement that you struggled with?
LHP2017,
You are in the majority. We can guess, but no one can accurately tell what someone's potential is. We only know that very few, if any, actually reach their full potential. and no one has ever come close to reaching their full potential without working hard. Truth is if you have some ability to start with, it can be very rewarding in trying to reach your full potential. There are things you can control (effort, knowledge, etc.) and other things you can't control (growth, body type, etc.)
Also here is something else to think about. Velocity spikes can and do happen at different stages. There are cases where pitchers have gained lots of velocity long after they left HS. Once again due to technique, maturity, growth, improved work ethic, knowledge, etc.
We can talk about those that throw 95-100 mph, but they are unique. Truth is those that can throw upper 70s to 80 mph, have a real good arm. Sure it might not be enough to get a lot of interest from top colleges or pro scouts, but the vast amount of 16-17 year olds can't throw a baseball 80 mph and most of them never will be able to. Some of those are star HS players. So if you can throw 80 you're pretty darn good. And that is not your ceiling!
Just my theory, but I believe genetics has a lot to do with throwing ability. I have just seen too many families where everyone including the females have a strong arm. So if dad had a good arm, chances are his sons have a good arm. Nothing scientific about that, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I have become a believer.
Son can throw much, much harder than I ever could. I thought I had a pretty good arm growing up, but I strongly suspect that I never broke 75, even at my peak. Wife's family has some athletic genes. I brought the looks. But, as Brak said, "that's another stowy."
Anyway, it's hard to know if my fatherly pitching instruction helped, hurt, or did nothing much at all. I tried to nurture, but I think that nature probably was the key factor. One thing for sure. I looked handsome doing it.
Edit to clarify that my kid is no super stud. Smaller guy who hopes to sit 83-84 this spring.
CaCO -- I think these clips from Trading Places frame the debate:
Shoveit4Ks posted:So much good information so far. I wouldn't be able to speculate more than the majority being based on genetics. Son has been called a "twitched up athlete","twitched up little guy" and even nicknamed "Squirrel". I can tell you this, i was athletic and was a basketball junkie. Mom was college cheerleader. He is better than i ever could have been and he works extremely hard in the weight room. That's when the potential was unlocked for him. I think he'd be touching 97 or 98 by now but is still a 94-95 guy now. Appendectomy fall of Senior year and then fractured wrist last year has kept him from reaching his max. We'll see how it goes and i'll let you know if he has plateau'd or continues to make gains.
You're kid's a little smallish, but he has powerful legs and really good mechanics. Uses his lower half very well. I imagine that was trained into him.
PGStaff posted:LHP2017,
... We can guess, but no one can accurately tell what someone's potential is. We only know that very few, if any, actually reach their full potential. and no one has ever come close to reaching their full potential without working hard. ...
PG, can you elaborate on this statement? When I read it, one thought that came to mind was that many of the top arms seem to always have that natural fluid throwing motion and much of it DID just come naturally. So, it made me wonder if there aren't several of those types out there who just instinctively know how to maximize the use of their bodies in regards to the throwing motion and come pretty close to reaching full potential without the benefit of instruction, diet, education, specialized fitness training, etc.
Another thought on the subject... I wonder how many end up with shorter careers because they spend so much of their training focused on maximizing velo. I have seen several that threw pretty hard in HS, then trained primarily to get that extra few ticks and didn't progress as much as they might have if they had put as much effort toward progressing with their pitching, locating, improving movement, strategic approach, etc. There was a local scout recently that really touted the tilt vs. the rotation, and it did seem to be the latest emphasis with many of the MiLB and MLB guys. He was pushing it with all of the hard throwers. Some of the local kids that bought in ended up really struggling with control and fizzling in JC. I often suspected that emphasis hurt more than helped at that point.
Teaching Elder posted:You're kid's a little smallish, but he has powerful legs and really good mechanics. Uses his lower half very well. I imagine that was trained into him.
Elder, i think we both prefer "impish" it helps with the chip he carries around. 
When he took the mound seriously at 14U, he had good mechanics but you are right, many hours on the mound have him where he is today. He's still a work in progress for a max effort guy.
Shoveit4Ks posted:Teaching Elder posted:You're kid's a little smallish, but he has powerful legs and really good mechanics. Uses his lower half very well. I imagine that was trained into him.Elder, i think we both prefer "impish" it helps with the chip he carries around.
When he took the mound seriously at 14U, he had good mechanics but you are right, many hours on the mound have him where he is today. He's still a work in progress for a max effort guy.
Well. In that case you may as well change "Max effort guy" into "Little go getter". 
That'll put a burr in his saddle.
cabbagedad posted:LHP2017 posted:someone was asking about a kid who worked very hard all the way up with throwing and trying to throw harder but was never able to break 80 mph, i somewhat fit this mold. i have been working out hard since my sophomore year and have taken it all very seriously with a driveline-esque throwing program all throughout my time training, i started out throwing about 74 mph off a mound, no pulldown velocity yet. make tweaks to the program as needed my junior year and really hit it hard as this was really my last chance to impress with some decent velocity numbers, only ended up hitting my top velocity on pulldowns at 77.9 mph. I was clocked at 77 mph off a mound at my max. currently in my senior year continuing the program with tweaks to fit me personally of course, I just had a ball register at 80 mph out of my hand for the first time ever and this was on a pulldown, it took me three years to gain about 5-6 mph. although i believe i have a lot more in me i just haven't found it. I believe there is definitely a ceiling that every player has simply based on genetics but you will never find it if you don't work hard. Just thought id share myself as somewhat of an example for those who asked about something like this
Thanks for sharing, LHP. Can you add to the equation? Did you have qualified mechanics instruction along the way? If so, was there any aspect that the instructor was trying to implement that you struggled with?
I did have qualified instruction yes, however it has just been through my training facility so I am currently on my third guy in three years as the others have had other things to work with somewhere else. the only kink i really ran into was last year (my junior year) i was throwing as hard as i ever had but for some off reason I began to push the ball more than throw it and lost a lot of velocity from that and it took the rest of the off season to recover from that. other than that i have been pretty on top of everything else thrown at me, just was difficult not having the security of the guy knowing me and how i throw
