Opinions--Is this overuse?

This is sad. This also makes me angry.

What's more important damaging position with team or his arm? wed, sat, wed is not bad, the pitch counts are too high. It should be 30-40 no matter how far he gets on that schedule. Pro ball teams use their pitchers on a 4-5 day rotation with LOW pitch counts, higher counts goes to a longer rotation.

Your son laboring in that 6th inning is what does the damage.

Has your son signed? If he has, I would call the HS coach up personally and give an ultimatum, we either work this out or he leaves the team. At this point, he needs him more than your son does. If your son has signed and you decide to go that route, let his future pitching coach know what's going on. College coaches do not like to rehab their pitchers due to HS coaches stupidity.

If he hasn't signed,and has no intentions of pitching beyond HS, you need to set up a meeting with the coach and AD. Tell them you will be happy to give guide lines regarding pitch counts if they have no clue. And tell them you have saved the article from the newspaper. That coach definetly falls in the category of jerk, and stupid for making public comments.

You also need to talk to your son about learning how to say no. he needs to give up the ball as soon as he's tired or feels any stress.

This is just a sugggestion, but you need to do something NOW.

That is not a good situation at all. Reminds me of a kid who left my son's HS after his soph. season. Very promising 6'5" LHP who ended that soph. year with 42 IP and an ERA of .15. Goes to lower classification school and the new coach starts him on Tuesdays, and uses him in relief on fridays. April 3 last year his season was over due to shoulder pain. He hasn't regained his form yet. Lots of D1 and pro interest has dwindled to maybe a walk-on opportunity at D2(not knocking D2, just making a point).

Okay...I'll expand on the situation a little more. Son has not committed to anyone yet. Had a couple of really good JUCO offers, that he refused. He is very academically oriented, and insists on a good four year college. Has been recruited by a couple of D2's...as a matter of fact he was being scouted by one at last nights game and I'll come back to that in a minute. He has been heavily recruited by several nice out of state D3's. One is on his top list, but we are waiting to see what kind of financial/scholarship aide he will receive, as it is very pricey. We will know that within the next 3 weeks. Meanwhile he has already received acceptance letters from 2 top D1 state schools (which of course would be much cheaper for us, as he would get full HOPE). If he chooses to attend one of these, he will not play baseball--unless he decides to try a walk-on and gets very lucky.
Now back to last night. Not sure if he would have pitched if college scout had not called HS coach and said he was coming to see him that game. Never the less, he had plenty to see in the 1st five innings that was good. Pitcher16 consistently hits 84-85. Last night scout spoke to my husband after the game and told him he maxed at 81. Despite that he liked what he saw (pitcher16 has a mean curve and a nasty fork), and asked was he committed anywhere yet, and said he would be in touch with us soon. Don't know that he'll choose this school, but it looks like he'll have options to choose from, and likelihood of his playing college ball is high if he's not wasted by the end of HS!
Pitcher 16 and I had this talk about coming out of the game after last season, and he assured me he would. But here's the problem--he feels tons of pressure to perform for this team. This coach has several State championships under his belt at various schools over the years, so he does have some community regard, though I have heard many say that he has a reputation of burning up his pitchers. Last year Pitcher16 carried the team to the 1st win in 6 years over their biggest rivals. Coach has been verbal to both my spouse and Pitcher16, that without his arm, they don't have a chance. So as I said, he is feeling a lot of pressure to not let the team/coach down. But the thing is he is deep in pitchers with talent, they are young, but they can perform, especially at some of the non crucial games, so I don't understand his insistence at using Pitcher16 so much.
This year pitching was turned over from head coach to one of the assistants who we have a great relationship with and a lot of respect for. Son played for him for 2 seasons at his old school, before they both moved to current county and school. This coach knew how upset we were last year at the abuse of his arm, and we felt sure that with him taking over pitching this year, we would not have this problem again. So we are at a bit of a loss for what is going on. I think I could talk with this coach very easily, but pitcher16 absolutely does not want me to. He says it is just as much his fault, because they would have taken him out if he had asked them too. But I don't know...I think he feels too much pressure. Last night I went beside the dugout just before the seventh inning, and discreetly let pitcher16 know that he was on 102 pitch count, it was obvious he was tired and it was time to come out. He looked at me a bit despairingly and insisted they needed one more out from him in the 7th while the relief pitcher warmed up . He went in got the 1st out on pitch #1, and then ended up throwing 9 more pitches to get the 2nd out! GRRR
When he got home last night and we talked...he said if I would agree to not go to the coach he would look to me for his count and take himself out at 90, unless it was just an extremely good situation. My problem with this, is that it doesn't stop them from not giving him enough rest between games. What do ya'll think?
Sorry for writing the book, I'm just really torn over this!

Mom, I ask you, whose arm is it, the coach's arm? My son is a college senior, also in the southeast who has played with numerous kids who pitched 12 months a year through high school, for coaches who "really neeeded their arms", only to end up with elbow and shoulder surgical scars in college.

You son feels great loyalty to his team but he is not superman. When he is hanging around his college team with his arm in a sling he will wonder "why am I hurt?"

You need to tell your son he is allowing the coach to abuse and throw him away. Somebody needs to put their foot down on the coach, in private and tell him the party is over, be a coach and teach someone else how to pitch. It's not your sons fault the team lacks enough pitching. He is not the coach.

FWIW we went through the same thing with a new coach senior year. I quickly nipped it in the "bud". The coach got his massive ego bruised, but he lived...barely.

If P16 is unwilling to protect himself and the arm that will pay for the college of his choice, you as his parent have the absolute right and duty to do it for him. It's time to be a parent. Good luck.

Suggestion, P16 gets to 80 pitches and at the end othe inning he simply tells the coach "I'm done."

If that doesn't work then you need to step in and put this guy on a leash. They always back down, sometimes with much sound and fury, but who cares?

oh, one more thing...as if I haven't said enough already. For those who say the numbers aren't that out of line...I might tend to agree,except for that I watched this same pattern emerge last year, and it just got worse, as they got deeper into the season, so I can't help but worry when I'm already seeing the same pattern emerge this year. They were in the sub-region playoffs last year, pitcher16 was already worn out, and playing with a strained back, which I now believe happened because he was compensating for pain in his arm. He was hurting and they knew it. They won that game, and as I was walking to our car, I passed one of the asst coaches who commented what a great job pitcher16 was doing. I said yes, but he is really tired and needs a rest. This was on a Tuesday. His reply to me was that pitcher16 would get plenty of rest after the coming Friday's game, because they would have 2 weeks before playoffs began
Needless to say, he was in no shape by that time, to pull off yet another win.
As a matter of fact, last night one of the parents of another player on the opposing team that my son also plays travel ball with, joked that he could go to ANY of our games and see pitcher16 play!

Thanks Dad04, I'm hearing you.

The good news is recruiters can see him in most any game, but I am serious, you have no idea how fast the abuse catches up with kids once they get to college. Plenty of signees never even pitch a college inning, due to the abuse in high school. People wonder why teams over recruit. Arm damage is a big reason.

I agree with dad04 150%. Maybe, because our sons pitched in college, we see a different side. Don't let anyone here tell you there are guidelines, all pitchers are individuals and some work like horses and others don't. The problem is that if your son wants to go to college, that's where the work load comes in, so a healthy arm is needed. Some of your replies are coming from parents whose sons haven't gotten out of HS.
Sons first senior game in HS, he went 80+ innings. The next day husband was on the phone, the coach said the problem was he needed him to put in a big workload that year due to less talent on pitching staff. Husband said not my problem. My son was upset, but at 22 with a healthy arm, he is grateful we stepped in.

Appears your son has put in enough time on the mound in HS, he won't last if it keeps up. Some of you have no clue how many pitchers get to college and don't get in a game for a year or two due to HS overuse.

On a side note........

P16Mom and all the other Moms......will you marry me.

Just kidding, I'm already married. Just want to complement those moms here that take so much interest in baseball.

Thanks for the offer 80patriot, if I weren't madly in love with P16's Dad I might take you up--I'm flattered all the same, and I might take you up on it if I ever get tired of him--but you would have to divorce your wife first

Just so you all know. I have been off work today and have debated this with my son all morning (he's off school). I had him read all of your posts(he has great respect for this forum). He has agreed that I can talk diplomatically with the pitching coach. There is power in numbers and of course he respects all of your opinions, as you know much more than I do!!! This makes it a little easier.

LET YOUR SON DO THE TALKING WITH THE COACH !!!

Don't expect them to say "You know P16mom, I was just thinking we needed to lighten his workload alot." Y'all might need to tag team those guys.

I agree that the numbers are not that far out of line. It may be early, but you commented that last yr your son was shot or exhausted, but he kept taking the ball. He must stand on his own two feet and communicate with the coach if he feels he's being overused. He is also a year older and should be a year stronger, but of course you should be concerned. Let your son do the talking and if he does play college ball, he'd better get used to taking care of himself, cause no one else is going to do it for him.

I think you should talk to your son. You said he always wants the ball which is pretty typical of most pitchers.
My son was always asked before he went out each inning if he was good to go. Your son has to learn to say no when he is too tired. Keep in mind pitching will make your arm tired so if he doesn't push himself a bit he will never go very far.
Parents talking/intervening with coackes is not a great idea. I don't see over use in what you have said but 112 pitches in HS is getting up there. He obviously was struggling in the 6th and should have been pulled.
Teach your son to know his limits and let the coach know when he is done. You should not be involved .

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I agree that the numbers are not that far out of line

Agree with whom, Coach Trophy Hog in GA? 3 starts in 8 days the first week in March is OK? If its not ok in college, it's not ok in high school.

Dad, we may not have all the facts. Knowing in Fl that some kids have been throwing since december and that some have been in games since early feb. some kids can handle the pitch counts, especially seniors. That being said, the sat to wed is a little better on the recovery side than the wed to sat as that only leaves 2 days rest. Its still up to this young Man to speak up and learn to be honest with himself and the coach. If it only gets worse, he has to be the one to tell the coach when its enough.

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Agree with whom, Coach Trophy Hog in GA? 3 starts in 8 days the first week in March is OK?

That s the problem with 2 threads on the same question.
It is not out of line. Thats 3 starts with 4 days of rest between. That is normal and for a guy who is in shape that is more than enough. 3 starts in 8 days ? that is miss leading.

The day he had 2 days rest he only thre 54 pitches. That is not more than a bull pen. 3 inns you hardly break a sweat.

Ric, you are correct about the kid being in the best position to take care of himself. If he handles it, it would be neater and cleaner, better. It probably needs handling one way or the other though.

With all the slings and zippers kids have when they get to college, I just think it's short sighted to work a kid like a rented mule and rationalize the workload.

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Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

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Agree with whom, Coach Trophy Hog in GA? 3 starts in 8 days the first week in March is OK?

That s the problem with 2 threads on the same question.
It is not out of line. Thats 3 starts with 4 days of rest between. That is normal and for a guy who is in shape that is more than enough. 3 starts in 8 days ? that is miss leading.

The day he had 2 days rest he only thre 54 pitches. That is not more than a bull pen. 3 inns you hardly break a sweat.

What happens Saturday after he throws another 90 pitches? Maybe they can keep him under 4 innings Saturday?

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What happens Saturday after he throws another 90 pitches? Maybe they can keep him under 4 innings Saturday?

Thsi is where the son has to tel his coach he is not able to go beyond X innins or X pitches if he is called on to throw Sat.
Last year my son was supposed to start a game against a top D1 school on Sun. On Wed he had gone 4 innings and had only been slated for 2-3. He told the coach he would see how it went after the Wed game. Day before thye Sun game he told thye coach he would give him a few relief inns if they needed him. This is what pitchers have to do. They have to know their arm and beable to say no. Parents should not get invloved. Even a MLB scout told me he interfered with his osn in College and was rightfully put in his place.

Hope I can word this correctly. I really don't think the player should go to the coach with this type of an issue. I do see this being one place for parents to get involved, but only if their son is truly being abused.

Many coaches will not ever have this problem because they will either be on pitch counts or trying to figure out when or better yet before a pitcher has passed the point of being affective. There are many tell tale signs besides getting hitters out.

But I would think the last thing any coach wants to hear from a pitcher in an important situation is "Coach I'm done". I know that I'd rather hear the pitcher say "Coach I'm good" and still take him out of the game anyway. Pitchers who want the ball and are willing to do the impossible are very valuable. Kind of like wanting the kid who will run through a wall, though you never really want him to. That is the makeup of champions! That is what seperates them from others. The champion never wants to quit, he actually will stay out there and blow his arm in order to win a game. Those are exactly the, blood in the eyes, competitors everyone loves to have. Unfortunately those are the same guys who sometimes end up being abused.

That is why good coaching is so darn important. And that is why, IMO, this is one instance where someone other than the athlete needs to speak up somehow. That big old heart of the champion will do foolish things just to win a game. And that's the way it should be.

We should remember that sometimes the coach has that heart of a champion also. Some are better at controlling that than others and those guys are the best. The best do not abuse pitchers, yet many who abuse pitchers are recognized as the best. I've never understood that!

PG

I think you will agree that the pitcher is the only one who knows how he feels and what he is capable of doing

A kid can be a "bulldog" and still know when to tell me I have reached my limit---we preach this to our kids--do not try to be a hero--I would rather a pitcher be mad at us for taking him out rather than allow him to go beyond his limits--

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Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

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What happens Saturday after he throws another 90 pitches? Maybe they can keep him under 4 innings Saturday?

Thsi is where the son has to tell his coach he is not able to go beyond X innins or X pitches if he is called on to throw Sat.
Last year my son was supposed to start a game against a top D1 school on Sun. On Wed he had gone 4 innings and had only been slated for 2-3. He told the coach he would see how it went after the Wed game. Day before thye Sun game he told thye coach he would give him a few relief inns if they needed him. This is what pitchers have to do. They have to know their arm and beable to say no. Parents should not get invloved. Even a MLB scout told me he interfered with his osn in College and was rightfully put in his place.

I agree with TR on this. A pitcher is no good to his team on the injury list. Staying in too long is no good for the team in the short or long run.
Having said that the pitcher has to push himself. My son's coaches have always asked how he feels and it is a rare time he would say he is done. He has pitched several games where his count has been over 100 at the HS age. He has always needed 4 days between starts depending on his previous outting and pitches throw.
PG we are not talking wimping out but rather knowing your arm and limits.

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PGStaff posted: We should remember that sometimes the coach has that heart of a champion also. Some are better at controlling that than others and those guys are the best. The best do not abuse pitchers, yet many who abuse pitchers are recognized as the best. I've never understood that!

Maybe that is because in pro ball when a kid gets hurt, they just call up another one.

In automobile racing it is called the "Red Mist". The tach redline becomes invisible. All the driver can see is the finish line or first place with little regard for his equipment. Next thing he knows he walking back to the pits with oil all over the track behind his car. They win alot, if the car doesn't blow up. The best drivers, like coaches, balance performance and their equipment knowing when to let off the gas. Running through the baseball redline the first week of the season is a good way to finish last.

Keep in mind that pitch counts are just that---100pitches with ease is one thing but 100 pitches with stress is another thing---everything is relative but the pitcher still has to know when the tank has run dry---you cannot be effective on fumes

First, let me say thank you to everyone. The reason I posted my problem here was to get valuable input from those who may be more knowledgeable about these things than I (certainly in regards to baseball, anyway).
PGstaff-you were certainly right about at least one thing, there is plenty of varied advice on this topic! Two main camps, and I truly see the value of both stands. Unfortunately, it just leaves me conflicted about how to handle this. All may rest assured that despite my last post, I have still not decided what to decide after all. Just found out a few hours ago that we have another makeup game tonight (rained out tuesday). I feel safe in saying he will not pitch tonight . Maybe just DH. So I will be sitting tight on this for at least one more night and maybe longer. There are a few things I want to address though.
Never, at any time did i say in my post that p16 had issues with the coach or his treatment. He does know however, that his parents are concerned and that he is going to be grilled when have the chance to talk to him about it. If left to p16, he would probably continue to pitch until his arm fell off. He does not like to disappoint. But when he comes home and tells me or his Dad that his back or his arm "is bothering him a little," and we see his performance start to fall--we know. When he asked if can pitch x number more innings by the coach---he will always answer yes, because he knows that coach is counting on him and he doesn't want to disappoint. Coach tells him "atta boy, that shows some guts, great spirit!" Even when I think he can see that p16 is suffering the ill effects of it. Should p16 stand up for himself--I think he'll learn to--but how many 16 and 17 year olds do you know that love the game and would just about rather die, than disappoint the coach? I think this skill will be developed as he matures.
The travel coach he played under the last 3 years or so, relied on him heavily, and yet still had great respect for preserving his arm. As a matter of fact p16 has had a reputation for a quicker than average recovery time, and he could come back and pitch strong after relatively little rest compared to other kids his age. But his travel coach always knew when it was time to take him out--and would do it, even if he didn't have anyone available that could fill his shoes. HS coach doesn't seem to operate the same way. I caught h*** from travel coach and a ton of other people for letting that go on last year. Because of his overuse he was unable to play most of the summer, we had to pass on some good showcases, and he really still wasn't up to par when his fall showcase team started, so the showcase coach was also wise enough to keep him from pitching even though p16 said he wanted to.
There are not four days rest anywhere in the above scenario I gave. 3 innings on day 1 was okay. . Didn't have a problem with him pitching that Saturday on 2 days rest, he was fine. But 7innings at 96 pitches and then 6 2/3's innings on 3 days rest (SUN, MON, TUES= 3days). I just felt that was too much. He said he felt good starting off, but you could tell that he tired more quickly, his velocity was off by 4 mph and his pitch count rose sharply in the 6th.
I would say he is fit. He has worked out and thrown all winter. They've had "player driven" practices since January.
One more thing. HS coach is a bit of a hot-head, gets upset easily during the games and doesn't hesitate to call the players out in front of God and everybody. Many parents get upset with him. I have not...course p16 has never been on the receiving end, and I'm sure he doesn't want to be. He does not strike me as being a terribly reasonable person. So if my son is a bit intimidated about telling coach that his parents are worried about his arm, who can blame him? Heck, I'm an adult and the man intimidates the heck out me! But I will deal with it for my son's sake if I have too.
Sorry, gotta head out to the ball bark for now.
Again..I do appreciate all the input.

I had to confront this after my son's sophomore season. The coach told me that he was "careful not to let him go over 130 pitches." I requested a meeting and confronted him with some statistics. Son's ERA when he began an inning over 100 was sky high, under 100 was wonderful. There was nothing to be gained from keeping him in there, and in any event we expected more reasonable management. I also presented articles that emphasized the 100-pitch max, to make the point that 130 was way too high, especially for a young guy. Heck, most of the time the pros barely let their guys go much past 100 any more.

We were fortunate in that we had a coaching change and the new guy took all this to heart. We were very pleased with him and although my son actually did have a bit of a temporary problem last year, it was in no way the coaches' fault. Sometimes things just happen no matter what we do.

But I did make it clear, politely but firmly, that I would intervene, and that I was intervening, to assure that reasonable pitch counts were observed. And let me assure you, had the coach ignored me, I was perfectly capable of getting ugly about it. My son would not have wanted me to "cause trouble", but inasmuch as I am the adult in the household, it really isn't my son's decision, it's mine.

My son was (and is) a teenager and subordinate to the coach on the team. He is not in a position to challenge the coach's authority. This is a parent's responsibility, as far as I'm concerned. When one adult is hurting a minor, it's time for other adults to step up and make sure the right thing happens. No, parents are not supposed to second guess the coach's every move, but when the health or safety of a player is involved, they not only can, they must. And any coach who suggests that the parents should butt out of these situations is a bully who needs to be confronted. Some of these guys want the parents to keep out for the simple reason that they know they are in control as long as they only have to deal with kids -- kids who all want to be in the lineup at that.

Bear in mind that these coaches all answer to higher ups, so if a coach ignores your legitimate concerns it is entirely appropriate to go to his superiors. If it were travel ball you could just switch teams, but in HS ball you don't really have that option. It's OK to play to win, but winning in HS is not all that important that it can justify injuring a teenager.

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Bear in mind that these coaches all answer to higher ups, so if a coach ignores your legitimate concerns it is entirely appropriate to go to his superiors.

Completely appropriate to schedule a meeting with someone in the "office".

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My son was (and is) a teenager and subordinate to the coach on the team. He is not in a position to challenge the coach's authority. This is a parent's responsibility, as far as I'm concerned. When one adult is hurting a minor, it's time for other adults to step up and make sure the right thing happens.

Most kids pick neither the school they attend or the coach working there and have little, if any, say in anything that happens at school. It's ok to be a parent.

This is the problem, a young pitcher full of adrenaline doesn't know it's time to stop. The coach who knows what he is doing (supposedly) and knows his pitching staff, knows what to look for when the pitcher is tired. In son's case, he drops his shoulder, that was an immediate trip to the mound to see if he was ok, not at the end of the inning. A pitcher can't SEE what he is doing, change in mechanics (a sure sign he's had it) it's up to the coach to use his judgement, and in the case of HS player, if the coach doesn't do that, than it is the parents responsibility to step up as Midlo Dad just posted. I don't care how you do it, but if you leave it up to the player to speak up and he doesn't, you better speak up.

We watched son's outings in HS as carefully as we could, we felt it was OUR responsibility. We knew that he would have a significant work load in college and then maybe later if he went pro. We thought it safer to save the bullets for later on when it REALLY MATTERED. My son was no different than yours, he never wanted to give up the ball, and as they grow and mature they learn to accept that responsisbility and be more cautious, your player is young, and has had a lot of responsibility placed on him to get a trophy. I know that feeling, some of us have been there with our sons.

Your son has already missed prime recruiting season last summer and fall, now is his oportunity. If your son is the ace, the coach needs him healthy, not hurt, you hold the cards, not him.

Don't let anyone here tell you what is safe and what worked for their son, that's BS, they are going by what has worked for their pitchers, not yours, pitchers are all different.

P16mom, in case you didn't know my son was on to pitching his first complete game last spring. At the end of the 8th they asked him how he felt, he said he felt fine (which he did). He was told he was into 93 pitch count, one of his highest, and if he didn't get it done by 10-11 pitches he was done. He ended going a bit longer to get his first complete game in college (ever actually). He missed his first professional season due to tendinitous and I do beleive that game had something to do with it. Was it worth it?

There are a lot of great coaches at every level that parents simply don't have to ever address.

It is best IMO if the player operates under "the coach is always right" rule. But when there is legitimate abuse involved, I think a parent has every right to step up.

I've probably seen just as much of the opposite problem. Coach taking kid out of game because he feels the kid is starting to struggle and wants to protect him... only to see dad getting mad because his son could have kept going.

Just to be clear... I do agree with TR, bobble and Dad04. Communication is very important as is honesty. Good coaches build this type of relationship with their pitchers and still understand just how competitive they are. I still love those guys who never want to come out, though. I love the guys who will throw their arm out to win a game, but they sure are in danger with the wrong coach.

Also, I think a pitcher talking honestly with the coach before he pitches is absolutely vital. I'm talking more about stretching things out into the danger zone to get another out or inning.

I still believe the biggest arm injury culprit is insufficient recovery, though. JMO

TPM,

That was very good IMO.

There sure does come a time when it is completely out of the parents hands. But if the coach told your son to beat his head on the side of the dugout all parents would get immediately involved. It's just a matter of understanding what is dangerous.

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(SUN, MON, TUES= 3days).

Thats 3 calendar days but he rested part of Sat after pitching and part of Wed before he pitched in terms of hours of rest.

In terms of not saying anything negative about HS coach you actually did. If you read what you just wrote you compared him negatively to the travel coach.
My son got tired lots of times after a gruelling shedule.He actually was not allowed to pitch for his HS if the elite team player on the up comming weekend. He had no problem with that nor did I.
My son also pitched way more than most on here would say was safe. At 21 he has never had an arm injury. He had a picnch sensation in his shoulder after playing summer collegiate ball and he put it down to poor workouts and a lack of throwing that summer.
You say that you don't know a lot about BB but you want to reproach your son's HS coach for what you see as abuse. You agree with people who tell you what you want to hear.
My impression is your son is not in top shape jsut like my son in collegiate summer ball.
One of the biggest problems with HS pitchers is they don't know what top shape is.
One of the jobs of a parent is to make your son aware of the isuues. We did that and it was not a matter of challenging the coach. They worked as a team and the coach discussed if he could go back out not if he wanted to.
I can't recall a coach that didn't ask if he was okay and never forced him to. I would like to think all coaches have the players best interests in mind. My son once pulled himself from a game saying his arm had cooled down and didn't feel 100%.
I don't know what 1st games of the season have to do with anything unless you just started throwing a couple days before. With workouts, bullpens and scrimmages you should be ready to go.

PG,
What gets me, is, if a player is not getting in ENOUGH playing time his folks suggest he go speak to the coach (coach what do I have to do to earn more playing time).

When a pitcher might be pitching too much, they don't know what to say or how to handle it and afraid to tell their son to speak up.

I don't get that. You got to set your priorities and as a pitcher's parent, it's about remaining healthy.

About significant rest, a closer can go in and throw an inning every night, a reliever two-three innings every other or third game. A starter with long outings (over 5-6 innings and a high pitch count) needs entirely different preparation and rest and recovery, and you don't find that in most HS programs. Everyone usually trains the same way, the starters get the raw end of the deal, IMO. I learned that from a pitching coach I know.

Bobble Head Doll--You must have misinterpreted/misread what I wrote. I did not say I did not have issues or anything negative to say about HS coach. I did say son did not have issues or complaints of how he was treated by HS coach. I made that statement in response to a poster on the other forum who said that if son had issues with the coach, son should discuss them with coach. I was pointing out that although my son wants to please the coach, we as his parents are concerned.
I also didn't say I didn't know a lot about baseball, I'm pretty sure I said that I didn't know as much as many of the people here, which I feel to be a pretty accurate statement. I think I do know enough to be concerned enough to raise questions about whether or not he is being overpitched. I think I'm pretty safe in saying too, that based on the responses I have received to my question there may be some legitimate cause for concern. I've said that both arguments presented have very legitimate points as far as how to handle the situation. Yet you say "You agree with people who tell you what you want to hear" Where did you get this?
I also did not say my son was in "top shape". I said I felt he was fit. Again in response to someone else's post about prior conditioning. He typically is not in top form until well into the season, and even better as summer approaches. Why am I being put on the defensive for things I didn't say?
As far as elite teams...HS Coach on this end does not "allow" travel team ball, showcases or pretty much anything else that would cut into "his" time. Even during summer hs ball, which here is basically practice where all the regional teams scrimmage each other. Doesn't matter what is in the best interest of the player. If coach gets wind that one of his players is headed off to a tournament or showcase that weekend...he'll pitch/play the snot out of him before he turns him loose even though he doesn't have anything scheduled. Ask me how I know...we have had to sneak in a few. So there...now you have pried the "negative" out of me

oh BTW, I did ask posters to please post here, verses the general topics forum. That should help lessen confusion.

I saw the negative in your statements. I understand because I have seen this many times over the years. Your situation is not unusual. If the HS coach is as bad as you imply you should pull him out off the team.
Personally I haven't seen anything abusive in what you have posted other than maybe to 110 pitch game and even that is not abusive.
As far as being in shape. You should be in the best shape at pitch #1. Most teams stop their workout while playing their schedule. If you want to see himk injure himself go out not in top shape. You cannot rely on the season to get in shape.

BHD...hmm. You are still taking my words out of context and turning things to a contentious point-- needlessly I might add. Go back and read my posts. I said I was not basing my concerns purely on this early start, but on last seasons experience. Since I'm feeling somewhat baited at this point, and it is not serving any productive purpose-I think I will just choose to let it slide past.
TPM..I do know that we had already missed out on some prime exposure time as well as maybe some other possibilities. This past fall one JUCO coach that was recruiting P16 said he wasn't getting as much interest as he should because word had gotten out that he was injured and the schools weren't willing to take the chance on him. The JUCO was though, and told him he could prove himself with them and then go on to a bigger school. Don't know if it was true or not, but we hadn't said anything to the coach about arm troubles. We had to make some tough choices about a few showcases, whether to make the attempt or not because we knew this wasn't time we could recoup.

edited to add: BHD I will make one further clarification. Perhaps my choice of wording was poor in regards to the fit thing. I do consider him fit. As I said, he works out pretty much year round, no heavy lifting, and workouts are tailored during season, but yes, they do still have them. When you said top shape, I was thinking in terms of top-form, as it relates to his pitching. And yes, he does get better as the season progresses.