Organization vs. Independent

Certain organizations cost less money to kids than others... due to certain capabilites.

I have seen kids with a lot of talent, and little money, get sponsored or scholar-shipped (is that a word?). even so, this is rare.

understand, I KNOW this is not an inexpensive sport, and finances always come into the equation. It would be nice to be able to have some sort of a system to get top-level players, with limited financial ability, a shot. HS is not where they are getting seen, especially if they play on a sub-par HS team

HS baseball may not get kids "seen" as much as "organizational" ball does. This of course has nothing to do with the quality of the competiion, it has to do with the conflicts on calendars...nothing else.

I'll say this, I have seen more college coaches at HS games over the last 3-4 years than I did when I got started as a head coach 11 years ago.

Whether some of you want to admit it or not, HS baseball is still the "lifeline" of college baseball, whether you like your HS coach or not. If you don't like your HS coach, then move.

I know of a few houses for sale in my attendance zone!!!

In my experience, there are a lot of tournaments you can play in with good competition; the problem is being seen by the right crowd. It may become necessary for your kids to attend individual showcases (such as PG), where nearly everyone who can afford it can attend, or the few with limited to no cost, such as a camp of a school they are interested in or a pro tryout. Other than that, find the best competition you can, at the price you can afford, and work on getting better.

And I still hear, "if you're good enough, they will find you".

we have had to pull a couple events for cost reasons, but have absolutely been searching for good competition...and holding our own. Went 4-0 in San Antonio last weekend before the rains came.

Last fall, the Tigers, along with help from DBAT, Blackhawks and a few other teams, had a great showcase in Lewisville with quite a few college coaches and several pro scouts. I don't remember if we had to pay anything for that, or at least, not much. You should have your coach get in contact with some of those teams and see if you guys can participate in that sort of thing. Coaches and scouts will go anywhere you can get enough good players together.

tigermama,

You said right there, if there are going to be alot of good players in one spot, coaches/scouts will be there. That is why tournaments like Dallas Mustang
Tournament and East Cobb are so heavily scouted.

however, without the organization, which again, does not always translate into the bast teams, independents have a tough time getting kids noticed since they do not get invited. I promise you we would be in the top group of teams, IF the Mustangs had included us...said "sorry, you have not proven you can play with the big boys", which we clearly have.

While playing for one of the better known teams does indeed help with the process, there are other ways around it.

Consider that baseball is a business, just like any other. What you need is somebody connected to the baseball world, somebody that ran in their group by either playing with or against the coaches, recruiters, scouts, etc.

Having a well respected baseball guy on staff will help your kids, just as having a well respected salesman helps your company sell goods.

Baseball is a small fraternity. My son has made college visits to colleges out of state that knew coaches that he played for in the past, where they could pick up the phone and call that person and get a real scouting report from somebody they could trust.

There are a few independents out there in a 'certain age group in D/FW' who are beating up pretty bad on all of the organizational teams so far... and I believe rfc3 knows what I am talking about! It could be interesting in a few years to see if these independent teams are still the better teams in the 17 & 18 year old groups...

good note Keller, this is an improvment area for us. We have the players, now we need a connected baseball guy...anyone know someone who might want to be part of something great? NorTex, could not agree more.

Usually, by the time they get to 18U, either they have "merged" with a organization, or the big organizations have cherry picked most of the talent on the independents.

rfc3 if you think you have a good team you better get a real good connected coach (which will cost you)or you better get with a recognized organization (which will cost you). ie dallas tigers, dallas mustangs etc... B/c if you don't, they will seek out your players and start to get them one by one and you will have no team. As the kids get older the independents can't compete year in year out with the big boys. Sorry!!!

rfc3, Ken Guthrie sounds like he might be available.

quote:

Originally posted by The Beast:
rfc3, Ken Guthrie sounds like he might be available.

Yes, but he has already said his son is playing all the positions, so that does not leave any spots open.

rfc3, Call BBI and see if they have any spots in the 16 Mickey Mantle World Series Qualifier next week. It starts on 6/27/07. Thought you were going to the Junior Oylimics in Arizona?

quote:

Whether some of you want to admit it or not, HS baseball is still the "lifeline" of college baseball, whether you like your HS coach or not. If you don't like your HS coach, then move.

Funneldreill must be a HS coach. With that philosophy, probably a small school. During my older sons recruiting no coach ever spoke to our HS coach, ever. They simply wanted to hear from his family and a "connected" summer coach as KD eluded to.

dadto7 you are correct. why would they want to talk to a football coach about one of their baseball players?

agsnhere and dadto7 - If you go back and read funneldrill's prior posts you will see that he is one of the good guys that is in baseball coaching for the right reasons and he works hard to help his players achieve their goals for a baseball future and if memory serves me correctly I don't believe he coaches football.

HS enrollment - 2,835 (5A) (not very small)

I enjoy funneldrill's input and appreciate the time he takes to give us a HS coach's perspective on this website.

So, please back off.

that may be true in his case, but that is not the case with the majority of high school coaches. From what I have seen the majority of the coaches never played college baseball and sure not at the major college level, therefore, it is hard to call them and talk to them about their needs at the college level. With the Organization, you ususally have coaches with college experience and/or professional experience, that's why they go to the "Organizational" coach most of the time.

quote:

There are a few independents out there in a 'certain age group in D/FW' who are beating up pretty bad on all of the organizational teams so far... and I believe rfc3 knows what I am talking about! It could be interesting in a few years to see if these independent teams are still the better teams in the 17 & 18 year old groups...

I coached a pretty salty group who beat up just about everybody... I disbanded after the 16U season. (a year to late) so that my/our kids could get scouted/exposure!!!! Independents DON'T
get many scholarships without (serious)@@@ connections or an (entire team) of serious MLB draft talent... @@@=someone who year in year out sends many players on to D1 college and pro's (not Jr. college) anyone can go to Jr. college...

There is only one independent around here that will make it to 18U.That would be Team Kelley.

not anyone can go to JC especially with the rules cahnges that are coming to NCAA Div 1 schools. Beast you should go watch a Jr college game sometime, not just anyone can go.

Sorry John G go check out a JR college game sometime

Hey I've been to a lot of JR college games.Besides I diidn't say a D**N think about it. Read my post ags.

beast easy killer

quote:

Originally posted by The Beast:
Hey I've been to a lot of JR college games.Besides I diidn't say a D**N think about it. Read my post ags.

Hey, where is the moderator (PD)?
I got censored for less than that.

T-A-B -- glad to see that you have a good sense of humor. Not everyone can go to the top JUCO programs and play. Many of the Texas JUCO are extremely competitive. Also, they remain a very good option for even top players.

quote:

Sorry John G go check out a JR college game sometime

AG- Don't go jumping to conclusions, I stayed on topic and was positive with one remark. (which i stand by) Not a knock on jr. colleges, i actually prefer them for many reasons/options... IMO the biggest difference between jr.college and D1 programs TYPICALLY are the bottom 10-ish players, D1 theres not a big drop in talent from bottom to top, but in jr. college? take a average-above average HS senior with average baseball talent/atheteism and send him to several Jr. college tryouts and see if he gets on a team.

quote:

There is only one independent around here that will make it to 18U.That would be Team Kelley.

Team kelly is a special team, and they have some extra-ordinary talent that will attract attention,

How much more will they get exposed if they went to major organization that can promote them fully?

quote:

Originally posted by John G.:

quote:

There is only one independent around here that will make it to 18U.That would be Team Kelley.

Team kelly is a special team, and they have some extra-ordinary talent that will attract attention,

How much more will they get exposed if they went to major organization that can promote them fully?

I've never watched them play, heard a lot of good things about them....

Suprised DBat/Tigers/Mustangs/Marshals haven't offered to bring them under the umbrella?

Maybe Team Kelly is not an organization but with the travel they do, it's not cheap right?

quote:

Originally posted by John G.:

quote:
There is only one independent around here that will make it to 18U.That would be Team Kelley.


Team kelly is a special team, and they have some extra-ordinary talent that will attract attention,

How much more will they get exposed if they went to major organization that can promote them fully?


I've never watched them play, heard a lot of good things about them....

Suprised DBat/Tigers/Mustangs/Marshals haven't offered to bring them under the umbrella?

What makes you think that hasn't happened???

I know when we were 15U we were asked by four different org. to play. (unfortunatly we picked the worst possible one!)(not a negative comment "informative")

rfce- from rading your comments on this page, i have come to the conclusion thatyou have no idea what you are talking about... and that your son probably plays on your "team".... get over it.

dadto7- you are an idiot if you think that college and pro scouts do not talk to HS coaches and that kids are "not" seen during HS season... maybe your son was not worth a coach talking to.... did you have your HS coaches home phone tapped? his office phone? how do you know for a fact no one ever talked to him about players...??? maybe everyone on your son's team were awful players....

instead of ragging on educators/coaches in our schools, why don't you get a life....

Diablo - can u be more specific? What does rfc have no idea about? He started a thread with good discussion is all I see. I'm trying to learn something from this and you didn't offer much but criticism.

I suspect rfc's team could take yours and if not they'd give you a fight.

Another thought, Kelly does win for sure. But do they have more than 4 guys that carry the team. Didn't I read a thread where they brought back their #1 with little rest at Burkburnett? Seems they'd be deeper and not need to do that. I'm asking cuz I don't know, not cuz I'm cutting them.

RFC-I am not trying to stir anything up, but I think I know why you don't get the recognition and respect you think you deserve. I assume you are the same team with the same players and coaches as the '05 and'06 seasons. I know for a fact a lot of your players, coaches and parents are rude and cocky. We have played against you in the past few years in certain tournaments and it was the same story every time. Maybe you should take a look at toning it down some, go out and win at a high level on the field without the trash talking I know you have yet to do that. Need to do more than go finish close to last in the USSSA Elite world series. And that against you own age group. Wasn't your team at Burkburnett at the end of May? How did you do there?

Like someone suggested earlier go jump in the 16U MMWS state tournament. That would be interesting. May humble you some.

I think I might have to agree with Diablos post above.

WOW - THSBBF now those are HOT SPORTS OPINIONS. Seems a little hostile to me.