Our first unoffical visit...What was this?

threeunassisted posted:

So my 2018 has been getting a few sniffs from colleges. Not a lot, but some. This whole recruiting thing is so very confusing.

On Sept 1 he got an email from a small local D1. The beginning of it read," Welcome to the 2018 recruiting class  for So and So University...."

In the email it suggested we come up and watch a practice, and that we should  contact admissions and schedule a campus tour, which we did. It also suggested that we choose the morning tour instead of the afternoon tour, as it fit into the baseball programs schedule better. In setting up the tour we mentioned that we had done this at the suggestion of the baseball coach.

So we do the campus tour and when we get done the admissions lady says we have a message from the baseball coach, to go directly to the baseball field and call him when we get there.  Which we do, only the coach is in a staff meeting and tells us to wait out front of the stadium and he'll be there in a few minutes. Thirty minutes later a different coach shows up. As he is introducing himself and apologizing for us having to wait, and telling us how he was working with a hitter and only has a few minutes before he has to go work with another hitter,  the recruiting coach literally comes jogging up, introduces himself and then apologizes and says he has to go watch a bullpen and is gone.

The hitting coach then gives us a quick tour of the facilities, but the whole time im getting this gnawing feeling like something is weird. I am absolutely 100% not saying i expected them to stop what they were doing,  roll out a red carpet and fawn over my son like he is the be all and end all. But honestly I couldnt help feeling like we were on the extreme far and of the pendulum..that they really didnt have any idea who my son was, and were caught off guard that we were even there.

I want to point out that the coach who gave us the tour was perfectly pleasant and im not saying he did a bad job. It was just that it was almost like he was giving us the tour because we asked for it, rather than because they were actually interested in my son.

So now its about noon time, and im thinking well at least we'll get to watch a real live college  baseball practice, and the coach tells us practice isnt until 4 PM that day. WTF? We have a two hour drive and i have work and my son has school. We left home at 630 am for the 9 am tour. If practice wasnt until 4 PM the 1 PM tour would have been pretty perfect IMO.  And honestly it didnt really sound like an invitation to stay and watch. It sounded more like a dismissal.... something like  "Hey ive got alot to do before practice, so it was real nice meeting you guys." (Thats not what he said, but it was the message i think he was sending)

AND to top it all off at the end of it all, he strongly suggests we attend their winter camp in December. Most of what ive read on here and other sites suggests that these camps are mostly money makers, and very little recruiting is done there. Is it different once youve met the coaches?

I cant help thinking, was this just an elaborate ruse to drum up camp business? All it cost them was a few emails and 15 minutes of their time to "give us a tour of the baseball facilities" Do schools do that? Or is this how these type visits just are...rushed and awkward?

The above sounds like an advertisement for a recruiting service, which may also see families as "an economic unit of revenue"...

Parents do NOT need to pay for recruiting dos & dont's....The whole process is the entire reason for the creation of HSBaseballweb! 

VMarlins, perhaps you would like to make a contribution...other than a sales pitch!

VMarlins posted:

Dear Friend,  I have been both Collegiate Baseball and Football Coach at Hampden-Sydney College and Averett University.  I also have been a parent with a top DI recruit and a pro prospect, a gifted student, a special needs student/athlete, a marine, a dancer, and a worker bee.  I tell you this because it is time to pull parents together for a conference on recruiting, networking, etc.  You would be amazed at what is really really going on.  Education is big business now, recruiting is marketing, families or economic units of revenue.  Coaches are limited by the NCAA on what they can do, colleges do not realize the importance of family communication, and 90% of scholarship is based on the individual's networking!  So if you really want to know what is the real deal!!!!!! Call us, set up a time to meet with others!!!  We must attack this process for our youth and their future tomorrows.  Coach Fulton, 4344894544.

You need to contact owner. We dont accept solicitations here.

Thanks for quick response and let me say my effort is to help families with information and solutions. I know Perfect Game very well. Please let me know if I can call to discuss positive participation. Thsnks

VMarlins posted:

Thanks for quick response and let me say my effort is to help families with information and solutions. I know Perfect Game very well. Please let me know if I can call to discuss positive participation. Thsnks

Personally, I dont care who you know.  

Refer to site rules.

Thank you.

Just looked the rules and regulations over. Thank you for  the advice. Have s great week.

TPM posted:

Without test scores and transcripts,  etc. they cant recruit you seriously.

No program will, even studs because if you cant pass admissions their work is fruitless.  

 

Actually, times have changed.  Top stud recruits WILL be recruited and offered, absent them having provided  transcript or having even taken the SAT/ACT.  The earlier recruiting has changed the landscape significantly since your son went through it.

I know this first hand.  My son had several offers from major P5 conference/big time baseball programs without being asked for a transcript or taking the SAT.  I know many of his peers and friends who have had the same experience.  They did nothing more than ask his GPA which he told them.  In fact, the day after my son took the SAT, he and the RC had a conversation of what he'd need to score to get accepted.  During the recruitment process, we (wife, son and myself) disqualified him from two schools because we knew that it was not a good academic fit for him and that he'd struggle in the classroom at both of these institutions.  One of these had already offered and the other was awaiting him to arrive for a visit to make an offer when he committed.

The race for top recruits has schools worrying more about getting commitments and worrying about getting them in later.  Another reason that I believe you're seeing more kids decommitting these days.  When the academic rubber meets the athletic road, sometimes they don't align.  For top baseball programs and top recruits, it's recruit first, qualify second (of course, not ALL schools take this approach, but even one of the highest academic and baseball powerhouse P5 schools was taking this approach).

I love this site!! So let me chime in. Academics is more critical than one may think. I am dealing with USC, Duke, UNC-G, Types for my players now. And they are quick to see if they qualify. sure can they play first is always the eye catcher, but there are thousands of guys that can play in many schools. Can they get in, collect academic money, be in state, etc.... This is the critical aspect of Collegiate Baseball today.  Remember that 11.7 scholarships over a group of 35 is very very little. An instate, academic player will go over the greater player most of the time.

VMarlins posted:

I love this site!! So let me chime in. Academics is more critical than one may think. I am dealing with USC, Duke, UNC-G, Types for my players now. And they are quick to see if they qualify. sure can they play first is always the eye catcher, but there are thousands of guys that can play in many schools. Can they get in, collect academic money, be in state, etc.... This is the critical aspect of Collegiate Baseball today.  Remember that 11.7 scholarships over a group of 35 is very very little. An instate, academic player will go over the greater player most of the time.

I agree 100%.  But its not over 35 but 27 for D1. Top recruiters wont waste any time if they think you wont pass admissions. Of course if you are a freshman or sophmore and appear to have plus skills that early offer means nothing realistically until later on. The OP said son was a junior.

And no one takes anyones word for it these days, money is too scarce.

Nuke,

Recruiting essentially remains the same, what has changed is that more amd more programs are getting kids to committ earlier, which is a win win situation for programs more than the recruit.

I love this site because of all the different ways individuals see things. I'm a parent that research everything I like knowing what I'm going into before I get there so I do my homework. Recruiting is different depending on the type of athlete. Let just keep it real if you are stud then the process is different. I can't stress the importance of education. Having a good gpa, high act/sat scores put you in the a better position and there is less stress when you have to pay for your athelete to attend school. 

Quick note on early commits. Do you guys know what this means? The colleges are not contractually bound to an early commit, the player does not have a contractual quarentee! It is smoke screen to look good politically in local and social settings. College softball programs are accepting 10-20 early commits by girls who are 14 and in the 9th grade. Why? Attrition and control. In four years how many of those 14 year olds end up going to this early committed school..... Maybe 2!  but the collegiate program looks so good to have these young immature student/athletes interested in the program.. And regarding the baseball early commits. You could have 200 early commits... But only 35 are allowed in the program and on the field. 

I have to bring this up because there is just too much mis-information circulating. 

VM,

Yes we know what early commit means.  

I am not a fan of early commit, but there are many folks here who think their sons wont get into a program if they start early. Reality is that there is a program for everyone, but not necessarily the one the player thinks he is suited for.

Most coming to this site for the first time really have no clue about the process. Its our job to help them understand, like in this topic, the letter in the email doesnt mean as much as most think. Its an introduction to THEIR program, they will recruit YOU, not the other way around.

Most of us here are not in favor of that 8th, 9th or even 10th grade early commitment. Me especially.

Hey! Great to hear that from you. You are on the right path and I hope you can stay true to developing good citizens first then great athletes. It is critical.  

In  my parts we have so many blowing smoke and exploiting youth and families in the name of money scholarship. Kids stop enjoying competing parents have coaches fired, others charge outrageous prices for travel, and so on... Time to fight back with virtue!  Thank you for letting me share!

I am not a coach. 

Threeunassisted,

I'm sorry that you had the experience that you had. I would say that it was atypical or least in our experience.  My son did not go on an official visit except for a celebratory visit after he had already verbally committed.

My son met with a D1 Fla school driving back from a PG tournament in a impromptu visit in July of 2014. We live in Texas. He was driving to meet us in another state. We had two other D1 visits scheduled. One on Saturday and one on Sunday. We met with academics advisor and coaches on Saturday. Drove to second school on Saturday evening.  Met with academic advisor Sunday morning, after he got out of church, and then met with coaches and then the three of us drove back to Texas.  Things went as planned.

Your mileage may vary!

VMarlins posted:

I love this site!! So let me chime in. Academics is more critical than one may think. I am dealing with USC, Duke, UNC-G, Types for my players now. And they are quick to see if they qualify. sure can they play first is always the eye catcher, but there are thousands of guys that can play in many schools. Can they get in, collect academic money, be in state, etc.... This is the critical aspect of Collegiate Baseball today.  Remember that 11.7 scholarships over a group of 35 is very very little. An instate, academic player will go over the greater player most of the time.

It would pay for you to dial into minimum ACT's for the schools you've mentioned.  For example, Coach Pollard at Duke makes it clear, minimum ACT is a 26.  And, one form of an offer, is admission. 

Different parameters for all the schools.  The GPA is an indication of work ethic to the university and to the coach.   A player with decent academics provides himself and the coach with more funding opportunities outside of the standard 11.7 scholarships.  

Reducing college costs, prepare for the future, and have a chance to baseball for a few more years.  Sounds good to me.  Plenty of threads written on this....Search.

Some people need to read more and post less, just saying.

Gov posted:

VMarlins posted:

I love this site!! So let me chime in. Academics is more critical than one may think. I am dealing with USC, Duke, UNC-G, Types for my players now. And they are quick to see if they qualify. sure can they play first is always the eye catcher, but there are thousands of guys that can play in many schools. Can they get in, collect academic money, be in state, etc.... This is the critical aspect of Collegiate Baseball today.  Remember that 11.7 scholarships over a group of 35 is very very little. An instate, academic player will go over the greater player most of the time.

It would pay for you to dial into minimum ACT's for the schools you've mentioned.  For example, Coach Pollard at Duke makes it clear, minimum ACT is a 26.  And, one form of an offer, is admission. 

Different parameters for all the schools.  The GPA is an indication of work ethic to the university and to the coach.   A player with decent academics provides himself and the coach with more funding opportunities outside of the standard 11.7 scholarships.  

Reducing college costs, prepare for the future, and have a chance to baseball for a few more years.  Sounds good to me.  Plenty of threads written on this....Search.

Thanks Gov. Kind of gets my goat when someone comes here for the first time and wants to educate us, like we have no clue.  

TPM posted:

Gov posted:

VMarlins posted:

I love this site!! So let me chime in. Academics is more critical than one may think. I am dealing with USC, Duke, UNC-G, Types for my players now. And they are quick to see if they qualify. sure can they play first is always the eye catcher, but there are thousands of guys that can play in many schools. Can they get in, collect academic money, be in state, etc.... This is the critical aspect of Collegiate Baseball today.  Remember that 11.7 scholarships over a group of 35 is very very little. An instate, academic player will go over the greater player most of the time.

It would pay for you to dial into minimum ACT's for the schools you've mentioned.  For example, Coach Pollard at Duke makes it clear, minimum ACT is a 26.  And, one form of an offer, is admission. 

Different parameters for all the schools.  The GPA is an indication of work ethic to the university and to the coach.   A player with decent academics provides himself and the coach with more funding opportunities outside of the standard 11.7 scholarships.  

Reducing college costs, prepare for the future, and have a chance to baseball for a few more years.  Sounds good to me.  Plenty of threads written on this....Search.

Thanks Gov. Kind of gets my goat when someone comes here for the first time and wants to educate us, like we have no clue.  

 

Figure we have to offer direction.  All good, all guests welcome.

Gentlemen, I appologize for my passion. Did not mean to upset the apple cart. I am working with players from all over the world and have to lay it all there from time to time. Many many do not have a solid understanding of the recruiting process and the secrets within. Have a great week and rock on! I appreciate you!

Dude, forget apology - look forward to your insight. Seriously, check out the threads over the past years ...lots of twists on the same subject.  GO CUBS!!!

Gov! Thank you for understanding. We are on the point everyday helping kids and families either find the right fit or developing their skills both on and off the field.  It is great to find more positive individuals who are also in the same fight. 

Cubs is right!!!

NO....... Go Cards!!! (next year )

VMarlins posted:

Gentlemen, I appologize for my passion. 

Thats ok but we arent all gentlemen!

I think VMarlins is related to Bilal!

Plus he has a really cool profile pic.  Nice Graphics!!

VMarlins posted:

...  Remember that 11.7 scholarships over a group of 35 is very very little. An instate, academic player will go over the greater player most of the time.

Actually is over 27 players. The 11.7 scholarships in baseball (equivalency sport) can be split among  27 players out of the 35 which can be in a team's roster. Which means that at least 8 players will not have a baseball scholarship in a roster of 35.

Lots of solid advice here about the recruiting journey, specifically the ups and downs and the process of trying to read the tea leaves. My son had a similar experience this past month. He is currently going through the recruiting process for the second time as a Juco player transferring back to a D1 program (4-2-4).

A couple of weeks back he told me that the RC of his #1 target school had watched him pitch and wanted to “get him on campus for a visit ASAP”. As this school is nearby his current Juco, the RC arranged for a visit the following week. I had planned to visit my son at his Juco that weekend, so I came in a day early and met him at the D1 for the tour and visit (privately I was expecting big things!). We did the school tour and were met by the PC who gave us a tour of the baseball and athletic facilities. The PC was new, and was clearly not overly familiar with my son (felt like we had been "handed off" from the RC to the PC). He was a great guy, but having been through this process in HS, my son quickly realized he was getting the “generic tour”. No sign of the HC and no specifics were discussed. I left with a similar reaction to the OP … I drove 7 hours for this?  We all shook hands and he agreed to stay in touch, but I had my doubts.

Fast forward to this weekend (about a month after the original visit). Son is pitching at a Fall game. Lots of schools in attendance including the PC from the D1 target school! (He actually did “stay in touch” with my son’s Juco coach!) Long story short, my son had a great outing, and had a message on his cell phone from the PC after the game about getting him back on to campus for a meeting the following AM. This time we got the full blown treatment: the HC, RC, and PC all met as at the front door!. All 3 had done their homework and knew everything about my son’s situation and they sold their school and program hard!

I know this story isn’t exactly relevant to the OP’s situation, but my take away (like many here) is that you absolutely never know how the journey will play out. Go out of your way to leave a Coach with a positive impression at every opportunity!

I know this story isn’t exactly relevant to the OP’s situation, but my take away (like many here) is that you absolutely never know how the journey will play out. Go out of your way to leave a Coach with a positive impression at every opportunity!

COLEFTY - I think your story is extremely relevant to the OP's situation!  I got no indication from the OP that he had any reservations about the coaching staff - other than their first impression during a poorly organized visit.  With a similar "outing", these coaches may come back around and try to get the kid back on campus at which time they will give him the premium tour.  I strongly suggest looking into the backgrounds/character of the coaching staff, but I would not recommend putting too much credence into their current state of mind when in fact there is time for their minds to be changed.  Kind of like talking to your boss when you know they have too much going on - they probably are not going to be able to afford to listen and respond effectively - but once things settle down again they usually come around and you can have that productive talk.

Nuke83 posted:

TPM posted:

Without test scores and transcripts,  etc. they cant recruit you seriously.

No program will, even studs because if you cant pass admissions their work is fruitless.  

 

Actually, times have changed.  Top stud recruits WILL be recruited and offered, absent them having provided  transcript or having even taken the SAT/ACT.  The earlier recruiting has changed the landscape significantly since your son went through it.

I know this first hand.  My son had several offers from major P5 conference/big time baseball programs without being asked for a transcript or taking the SAT.  I know many of his peers and friends who have had the same experience.  They did nothing more than ask his GPA which he told them.  In fact, the day after my son took the SAT, he and the RC had a conversation of what he'd need to score to get accepted.  During the recruitment process, we (wife, son and myself) disqualified him from two schools because we knew that it was not a good academic fit for him and that he'd struggle in the classroom at both of these institutions.  One of these had already offered and the other was awaiting him to arrive for a visit to make an offer when he committed.

The race for top recruits has schools worrying more about getting commitments and worrying about getting them in later.  Another reason that I believe you're seeing more kids decommitting these days.  When the academic rubber meets the athletic road, sometimes they don't align.  For top baseball programs and top recruits, it's recruit first, qualify second (of course, not ALL schools take this approach, but even one of the highest academic and baseball powerhouse P5 schools was taking this approach).

I don't think you can paint them all with the same brush.  My son has had both experiences.  A lot of coaches still want the transcripts.  Especially if it is an expensive, out of state school.   They want to know how much Academic money they can get you, so that they can get you the right offer.

FourBases posted:

VMarlins posted:

...  Remember that 11.7 scholarships over a group of 35 is very very little. An instate, academic player will go over the greater player most of the time.

Actually is over 27 players. The 11.7 scholarships in baseball (equivalency sport) can be split among  27 players out of the 35 which can be in a team's roster. Which means that at least 8 players will not have a baseball scholarship in a roster of 35.

When I read that post, I found it quite funny, since that is a very basic fact to know about D-1 scholarships.  My first thought was, and this guy is not only coming here to "educate" us, but he is selling recruiting advice???

COLefty posted:

Lots of solid advice here about the recruiting journey, specifically the ups and downs and the process of trying to read the tea leaves. My son had a similar experience this past month. He is currently going through the recruiting process for the second time as a Juco player transferring back to a D1 program (4-2-4).

A couple of weeks back he told me that the RC of his #1 target school had watched him pitch and wanted to “get him on campus for a visit ASAP”. As this school is nearby his current Juco, the RC arranged for a visit the following week. I had planned to visit my son at his Juco that weekend, so I came in a day early and met him at the D1 for the tour and visit (privately I was expecting big things!). We did the school tour and were met by the PC who gave us a tour of the baseball and athletic facilities. The PC was new, and was clearly not overly familiar with my son (felt like we had been "handed off" from the RC to the PC). He was a great guy, but having been through this process in HS, my son quickly realized he was getting the “generic tour”. No sign of the HC and no specifics were discussed. I left with a similar reaction to the OP … I drove 7 hours for this?  We all shook hands and he agreed to stay in touch, but I had my doubts.

Fast forward to this weekend (about a month after the original visit). Son is pitching at a Fall game. Lots of schools in attendance including the PC from the D1 target school! (He actually did “stay in touch” with my son’s Juco coach!) Long story short, my son had a great outing, and had a message on his cell phone from the PC after the game about getting him back on to campus for a meeting the following AM. This time we got the full blown treatment: the HC, RC, and PC all met as at the front door!. All 3 had done their homework and knew everything about my son’s situation and they sold their school and program hard!

I know this story isn’t exactly relevant to the OP’s situation, but my take away (like many here) is that you absolutely never know how the journey will play out. Go out of your way to leave a Coach with a positive impression at every opportunity!

Exactly why you don't let a perceived slight cloud your judgment.  Chalk it up to learning and move forward.

Honestly Three, the more time I spend around the whole process the more disorganized I find it to be.

Volunteer Asst coaches joining programs and quitting programs.

Camp, showcases, clinics postponed and rescheduled.

Big dollar travel programs with questionable ROI.

Try not to lose sight that baseball is supposed to be fun, and make sure the school passes the Tommy John test.

NTGson had many invitations for unofficial visits, some by email in generic form, some by email very personalized, some by text and some by phone. Three of the unofficial visits he took have bearing on this discussion: 1. invitation to unofficial visit to campus requiring flight/ hotel/ car rental, etc., extended by PC, very organized, very small group of recruits (7-8), tours, football game, all kinds of good stuff to sell the school and the program. NTGson very impressed but he must not have been impressive to HC or RC or whatever because the fervor and frequency of their recruiting fell off, not gone but lessened, during the tours NTGson was apparently more inquisitive about academics than baseball (maybe a negative?) 2. invitation to attend unofficial visit, email, phone, follow-up texts and emails (my alma mater), all very personal, all by PC and RC. Arrived at athletic facility to meet with coaches. found it a cattle call, had to have had at least 40 kids there from all over the country, tours of classrooms/dorms etc. were cumbersome because of the numbers of people, whole thing was about as personal as riding the subway; 3. invitation to unofficial visit, all personal calls and emails from PC and RC, got there to find no other recruits and UV conducted by the HC, very impressive presentation by admissions department, head of academic department and then HC made verbal offer. During the entire process, NTGson thanked each coach of every school which contacted him and indicated as quickly as possible his level of interest in the school. He was politely blunt, especially to those schools whose academic programs did not include his desired field of study.

I, of course, as the proud dad, wanted to be able to puff out my chest and say that this school and that school had contacted him and blah, blah, blah....but my wife put her foot down and said that this was his path to follow, his 40 years and he had to deal with the consequences of his decision. We could advise him once he had narrowed his choices, but the narrowing was all his to do, not ours.  Ooorah to my wife.