Outside Corner?

I'm not complaining!! My son's a pitcher and doesn't step foot in the batter's box!

KD -- I have noticed the same thing -- without question, the zone has expanded sideways. I attribute it to the umps setting up on the inside shoulder of the catcher, but that is probably an over-simplication.

PantherSon gets the benefit on the hill but has been called out on a few questionable strikes (part of the game, I know).

-PD

Zero and 1 strike lay off it. If the umpire is going to call it, then with 2 strikes the hitter has to foul it off or something to keep the at bat going.

Hitter had to adjust to the umpire just like they have to adjust to the pitcher.

That is just the way it is. You sure can't argue it!

quote:

Originally posted by funneldrill:
Zero and 1 strike lay off it. If the umpire is going to call it, then with 2 strikes the hitter has to foul it off or something to keep the at bat going.

Hitter has to adjust to the umpire just like they have to adjust to the pitcher.

That is just the way it is. You sure can't argue it!

See, even if I was a pitcher, I would still disagree with the umps zone. The rulebook is the rulebook. It says where the strike zone should be. With the ump expanding the zone that wide, you can't even touch the ball. I don't get why umpires tend to do that. You don't see it in college or pro ball, so why do it in high school? A kid with nothing but a fastball can last 5 innings with just hitting the spot in the other batters box that is impossible to make contact with. Giving a ball off I can atleast live with because you can still put the bat on the ball, but when it takes the bat right out of your hands it is rediculous.

Haven't seen 8", but I have seen about a ball width and a half. Don't know why the change, but I have seen it most of the year. Of course, now catcher's are setting up and framing the pitch out there and that really gets the call.

FD -- you may not be able to argue it, but we are arguing it from behind the screen! -- some louder than others.

I think it is difficult to ask a kid to be aggressive within the zone when "the zone" includes a location that requires a defensive swing (in most cases). Sure you can teach targeting right and right-center -- most kids would be better hitters if they used that part of the field more -- but then the inside part of the plate becomes virtually unhittable as well.

The #1's and most #2's don't need this advantage.

I'm like KD on this subject though wondering....is this a directive? Does one umps chapter impact others?

BLUE? BLUE? "Pitch" in here.

Oh, and I expect to retire in 22 posts or so...

This is not something that has changed recently. When I played (which was a loooong time ago) they did it, and I had to make the adjustment just like funneldrill says. Same thing in college. Years ago, the NCAA officials stance was to call one ball inside, two balls outside, and the top of the belt buckle. They didn't want the high strike called.

Eight inches is a lot, though, if it was eight. I remember seeing an umpire call Chuck Knoblauch out on a pitch about two feet outside after Knoblauch drew a line in the dirt when he thought a previous pitch was outside. The A&M coach never said a word to the umpire. Told Knoblauch to shut up, sit down, and never do that again.

If this isn't a recent change -- then it went from 3-4" to 6-8, a noticable difference. And we expected you to like the outside strike with a nickname like yours!

3-4" you can still reach with your bat.

6-8" is unhittable unless you are standing on the plate.

About half the umpires this year have been calling a strike in the other batters box for both teams.

Studentofthegame can tell you for sure, he's back there with the mitt.

I know that weather can play a factor in the strike zone...weather??? (The following story is true and happened when I was at FW Nolan) I have had more than one umpire tell me on a cold night that this game will not last longer than an hour and a half. We have a spot that we call for the outside corner and another spot we call 2-6 inches off the plate for 0-2 pitches. Catcher set up all night 4-6 inches off the plate. Our pitcher made 1 mistake (did not hurt us). There pitcher made 2 mistakes and we cashed it in for a 3-0 win.

The game took 1 hour 35 minutes.

Also are told to tell the kids to swing at everything when we are up by a bunch of runs. I respectfully tell the umpire that I am not going to tell my kids to change their approach with zero or 1 strikes in the count. I have an easier time dealing with the wide strike zone than I do with strikes called on pitches that bounce in the dirt.

I'm still not complaining...............!

Old Pitcher,

As an old catcher, deep down, I am right there with you!

I have seen some balls well into the other batters box called as strikes this year. Not sure if it's newbie umps trying to copy what they think they see on tv or if there is some sort of concerted thing that has been communicated among the ump associations.

It's one thing to reward the pitcher for that o/s strike, but somthing all together different when it effectively takes the bat out of a kids hands.

Send ole blue over to 9-4A. Not only are pitchers squeezed on the black, umps will not give pitchers low strikes resulting in the kids having to elevate the ball.

It is a judgement call and nothing except additional training can fix it. Perhaps if the the umpire associations would film an umpire, as part of development, so he can see his calls then he might make be able to fix his "errors". Or maybe the umpire should sit in the stands with all the other umpires!

quote:

Originally posted by UpnIn:
Or maybe the umpire should sit in the stands with all the other umpires!

Dude, if you saw kid after kid getting rung up by a ball 8" outside, you'd be an umpire in the stands also.

As a coach, and a former catcher, here is the one that really bothers me. When the catcher has to back hand the ball, or when his arm is fully extended (toward either dugout) to catch a ball way out of the strike zone...and the umpire calls it a strike.

I can see this from the 3rd base coaches area. If I can see it, I know the parents behind the plate can see. So, one would think that the ump can see it.

I don't say anything, but let's just say that that particular umpire will not be one of my top 15 that I will request if we are fortunate enough to make the playoffs.

Well I sure am glad to read this. I thought it was just me or something.

At a game on Tuesday Ump kept calling strikes in the opposite batters box.

I was directly behind and up from him so camcorder got it tight. All I can say is he was consistant with both teams.

Another thing I have seen is the lowering of the strike zone. 3 times this year had umps calling strikes at the ankles. First time I saw it I was not sure as my position was behind, so went to the side and filmed and sure enough right at the ankles.

One ump calling that way is an accident, as many as I have seen now is organized. Another thing I have noticed is toward the end of a couple games the strike zone got even bigger, such as balls up around the shoulders. Again at least they are doing it to both teams.

Oh saw one last week when a right handed batter had to jump in the air to keep from getting hit in the knee and the ump called a strike. That had to have been the worst.

That is not all this year, how about calls at the plate?

It is a judgement call right or wrong. Part of the game. Don't agree it is right call. Ever noticed the ump is right only half the time anyway!

Bringing this back to the top. Last nights game was the worst of the year. Had a Colleyville dad point out to me on the first pitch the ball was 12" off the plate. It got worse from there.

I don't gripe often about officials...it's a tough job, BUT, kiddo got rung up last night on a pitch he couldn't reach 40" bat. Still needs to protect, but WOW!

If they are being consistent with both side, then where is the complaint? I have always felt that if the plate umpire is consistent with the call then whatever the strike zone is, it is...Sorry your kids are getting rung up on what you perceive to be a ball, however one umpires outside strike is another one's ball...

With Texan son being a pitcher, I like those big corners!

quote:

Originally posted by juiceless:
If they are being consistent with both side, then where is the complaint? I have always felt that if the plate umpire is consistent with the call then whatever the strike zone is, it is...Sorry your kids are getting rung up on what you perceive to be a ball, however one umpires outside strike is another one's ball...

So, it's OK in your book that a ball so far outside the strike zone that there is no possible way to even get a bat on the ball without stepping on the plate is called a strike?

quote:

Originally posted by juiceless:
If they are being consistent with both side, then where is the complaint? I have always felt that if the plate umpire is consistent with the call then whatever the strike zone is, it is...Sorry your kids are getting rung up on what you perceive to be a ball, however one umpires outside strike is another one's ball...

The problem, there juiceless, is a strike is a strike and a ball is a ball. You can even look it up in a rulebook if you want. I don't know why we have started accepting an umpire calling a bad strike zone, just because he is consistently wrong.

How would you feel if your boss was constantly wrong in correcting your work, but he/she came back and said, well, I am consistent.

Or if the umps consistantly made bad calls on the basepaths?

If the strike zone is a nebulous thing -- why have a defnition for it in the rule book? I understand the variations but in some cases the size is drastically different that Abner's intent.

quote:

The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the knee cap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

T-BD, you beat me to this point.

And I have found that an ump that is "equally bad" for both teams satisfies neither.

Just to beat this horse until it bleeds, coaches always teach hitters to look for good pitches to drive hard. Then an umpire decides a pitcher hit a spot where the catcher was set up, regardless of whether it is over the plate or not, and he calls it a strike because the catcher didn't move.

I just don't like what has happened with the strike zone, it has made it subjective.

Geez,there T Bird DAD you guys make it sound like this is some new phenomenon, as long as there has been baseball there has been inconsistency in the strike zone. I assume you all would like to do away with the human element and have a computer call the balls and strikes....

quote:

Originally posted by KellerDad:
Bringing this back to the top. Last nights game was the worst of the year. Had a Colleyville dad point out to me on the first pitch the ball was 12" off the plate. It got worse from there.

KD this is always a tough topic. However, in most cases what the Colleyville dad told you is like a fish story. If he said the pitch was 12" off the plate it probably was 6"; which is the width of two baseballs.

Uh oh -- SWAC was calling balls and strikes again -- I thought that conflicted with his 12-step program. See you Saturday, dude.

quote:

Originally posted by juiceless:
Geez,there T Bird DAD you guys make it sound like this is some new phenomenon, as long as there has been baseball there has been inconsistency in the strike zone. I assume you all would like to do away with the human element and have a computer call the balls and strikes....

Maybe, but I guess you want everything a pitcher flips up there that a catcher can block called a strike.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Uh oh -- SWAC was calling balls and strikes again -- I thought that conflicted with his 12-step program. See you Saturday, dude.

PD I have to really be careful with this topic. But the fish story grows and grows.

Never said that I didn't think there should be a strike zone or that every pitch is a strike I was simply trying to make a point about being consistenct and the fact that the strike zone has always been subjective, always has been and always will be. That is until somebody ruins it by having a computer call the ballas and strikes. I for one like the human element, besides if we didn't have umpires to yell at, it would be nearly as fun to go to a game.

quote:

Originally posted by SWAC:


KD this is always a tough topic. However, in most cases what the Colleyville dad told you is like a fish story. If he said the pitch was 12" off the plate it probably was 6"; which is the width of two baseballs.

The Colleyville dad was sitting right next to me. The pitch was to a Keller hitter. 12 inches outside. I saw it with my own eyes. He confirmed it.

quote:

Originally posted by juiceless:
Never said that I didn't think there should be a strike zone or that every pitch is a strike I was simply trying to make a point about being consistenct and the fact that the strike zone has always been subjective, always has been and always will be. That is until somebody ruins it by having a computer call the ballas and strikes. I for one like the human element, besides if we didn't have umpires to yell at, it would be nearly as fun to go to a game.

It's one thing to have a horrible, and I mean horrible strike zone if you are calling Little League making 20 bucks a game.

But, these guys are making good money and supposed to be the best local umpires.

There was one time last night when the field ump missed a balk call. One of the parents hollered out something and the umpire turned to him and made a wise arse comment to a fan in the stands.

Not only were these two horrible, they were unprofessional as well. Let's hope for somebody's sake that they don't get a call for the playoffs.

And you have to realize, there are people's jobs on the line with HS games. This isn't LL or TBall.

It also isn't life or death. At the end of the day it is a game and we should enjoy it. In life there are good doctors and bad doctors, good accountants and bad ones, there are always going to be good HS umpires and bad ones, that's the way it is.