is overrecruiting a common occurrence at schools for baseball? or is it something that tends to happen with more high profile baseball schools?
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This is an important, but dangerous, topic. One person's definition of "over-recruiting" may differ from another's; and, it's all too easy for threads like this one to degenerate into little more than "yes, they are;" "no, they're not." tirades.
It's also the case that important changes in the apportionment of scholarships and transfer rules seem likely to alter the landscape sufficiently enough that some schools will have to make significant changes to the way they've approached recruiting in the past.
Having said all of that, the best advice I could give would be to take the fall rosters of schools that are of interest and look at the number of players listed. Also look at the number of players they have consistently brought in each year. If rosters consistently number more than 40 and they've brought in double-digit numbers of recruits, you can pretty well be assured that players are being brought in regularly for "re-evaluation" discussions with the coaches.
It's also the case that important changes in the apportionment of scholarships and transfer rules seem likely to alter the landscape sufficiently enough that some schools will have to make significant changes to the way they've approached recruiting in the past.
Having said all of that, the best advice I could give would be to take the fall rosters of schools that are of interest and look at the number of players listed. Also look at the number of players they have consistently brought in each year. If rosters consistently number more than 40 and they've brought in double-digit numbers of recruits, you can pretty well be assured that players are being brought in regularly for "re-evaluation" discussions with the coaches.
If a player has the confidence in his ability it really doesn't matter if a school over recruits or not---he is there to win a spot be it 25 or 50 players---if he is run off by numbers then he may not be a player
Couldn't agree more with your premise, TR. However, I do think there's some value in a player having an idea of the sort of environment he's entering before he makes his choice.
Prepster
Not arguing that aspect at all---always need to do the homework
Not arguing that aspect at all---always need to do the homework
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Good succinct info here from Prepster and TR...
It does pay both to "roster read", to do your homework, to keep an ear out, talk to those who might have a reason to know AND take that all with a grain of salt. Frankly if you listen, and do you homework it is pretty easy to figure.
IMO, the problem right now it is a very hard time to be a recruit or a coach. With the written rules likely changing there is some real uncertainty. Will the rules be left as written or adjusted? How much? Will it curb the practice? How much? Will the over-recruiting programs find ways around the new rules. Ways that are not as visible?
TR's point is very well taken, with some homework you may be able to psyche the system some, at first, to get an entre and a little time. But at some point in time you are simply going to have to beat out some excellent players to get AB's, or innings. Beat them out now. Beat them out later. You decide.
I think the follow up question is not, to stay away from those programs per se, but is the player ready to take on that pressure yet? Realistically, some need more time to develop. Would not have worked for mine, but I have a friend whose son is diving headlong into a DI mosh pit of overecruting, knows it and wants to get the competiton started ASAP.
44
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Good succinct info here from Prepster and TR...
It does pay both to "roster read", to do your homework, to keep an ear out, talk to those who might have a reason to know AND take that all with a grain of salt. Frankly if you listen, and do you homework it is pretty easy to figure.
IMO, the problem right now it is a very hard time to be a recruit or a coach. With the written rules likely changing there is some real uncertainty. Will the rules be left as written or adjusted? How much? Will it curb the practice? How much? Will the over-recruiting programs find ways around the new rules. Ways that are not as visible?
TR's point is very well taken, with some homework you may be able to psyche the system some, at first, to get an entre and a little time. But at some point in time you are simply going to have to beat out some excellent players to get AB's, or innings. Beat them out now. Beat them out later. You decide.
I think the follow up question is not, to stay away from those programs per se, but is the player ready to take on that pressure yet? Realistically, some need more time to develop. Would not have worked for mine, but I have a friend whose son is diving headlong into a DI mosh pit of overecruting, knows it and wants to get the competiton started ASAP.
44.
The practice of bringing in more players than you will carry was common. May not be after new rules go into effect. Often 50-60 players show up in the fall to tryout.
Some of these players will be cut and others will be Red Shirted. Most parents don't have a clue that this goes on. It would be nice to know going in. It was a shock to us.
Many schools do not post lists of players in the fall. The returning players on that list have numbers and the new guys don't. Several previous year players are cut after the seson and some pack it in.
This was part of the business of BB. Many schools do just invite players that they will roster or RS.
Some of these players will be cut and others will be Red Shirted. Most parents don't have a clue that this goes on. It would be nice to know going in. It was a shock to us.
Many schools do not post lists of players in the fall. The returning players on that list have numbers and the new guys don't. Several previous year players are cut after the seson and some pack it in.
This was part of the business of BB. Many schools do just invite players that they will roster or RS.
quote:question is not, to stay away from those programs per se, but is the player ready to take on that pressure yet? Realistically, some need more time to develop.
Excellent point 44.
thanks all for the input. i apologize as this is a general question and a little more specifically does the recruiting differ from d1 to 3. Would there be as many kids competing for spots on a top d3 as there would be for a mid level d1? just trying to get a sense for the differences in recruiting from d1,2,3. lots to know
This process is totally new to us and I would like to ask a few questions.
1. Who do you talk to about the environment?
2. Will you look like a meddling parent?
3. If you speak to a current player, will he talk with the coach about your concerns or questions and could that hurt you being recruited?
4. How close are parents and college coaches?
5. Is it political like it can be in high school?
1. Who do you talk to about the environment?
2. Will you look like a meddling parent?
3. If you speak to a current player, will he talk with the coach about your concerns or questions and could that hurt you being recruited?
4. How close are parents and college coaches?
5. Is it political like it can be in high school?
Prepster - that is a nice avatar - best wishes to Robert!
My feelings have changed on this now that my son has been in college.
observer44's comment...
...seems right to me. You can do all the figuring you want but at some point, you will have to beat out several really good ball players. Every JUCO roster in the country is a potential roster spot that could be claimed by someone else. Under the old system, transfer players could come in and take a spot that another player had worked years to earn. Transfer impacts to the roster may now be mitigated under the new system requiring players to sit out a year, but JUCO's will always be a threat above and beyond what the fall and spring rosters say.
To answer the other question about D1 versus D3 recruiting, the upper level NAIA, D2, and D3 programs are good for a reason. They recruit very good players at each position and make the best man earn the position.
My feelings have changed on this now that my son has been in college.
observer44's comment...
quote:But at some point in time you are simply going to have to beat out some excellent players to get AB's, or innings. Beat them out now. Beat them out later. You decide.
...seems right to me. You can do all the figuring you want but at some point, you will have to beat out several really good ball players. Every JUCO roster in the country is a potential roster spot that could be claimed by someone else. Under the old system, transfer players could come in and take a spot that another player had worked years to earn. Transfer impacts to the roster may now be mitigated under the new system requiring players to sit out a year, but JUCO's will always be a threat above and beyond what the fall and spring rosters say.
To answer the other question about D1 versus D3 recruiting, the upper level NAIA, D2, and D3 programs are good for a reason. They recruit very good players at each position and make the best man earn the position.
I beleive that over recruiting is a coaches lazy way of finding players.
If my son shows up for the fall and been awarded a scholarship, I would expect him to compete against those that have been awarded and recruited in the same way.
IMO, 30-32 is the ideal roster, with half being pitchers. You NEVER have enough pitching. But to show up and have to compete with 5 catchers (example) is ridiculous. Do your homework, if you see a high profile player played a position he's most likely got it for another 2-3 years. You are not gonna get it over him, unless he gets hurts or becomes ineligible.
As far as the new rules, I think that you only have to be compliant in fall for GPA, not for roster (35) until spring.
A good question to ask is about redshirt. At the school where son went (that sounds too sad now
) all players were given a uniform and all had to attend games and most traveled to non conference games. This makes them part of teh team even though sitting out for a year. In D1, 28 can travel in uniform for conference games, the 25 man roster is not awarded until tourney time and post season.
The idea is to show up and compete for a starting position and then make the 25 man for championship games.
In recruiting it is a coaches responsibility to be honest. If he has a second baseman who has played and proved himself, there should be no one question he will receive the job the following year. The coach should be honest to the new recruits that they may have to sit for a year or two behind another player, or use that player at another position.
It always doesn't work out the way they plan it, but if too many are in line for one position, it should be the players decision to leave, not to get cut because too many showed up.
It can be done the right and honest way, some just don't know how to do it.
If my son shows up for the fall and been awarded a scholarship, I would expect him to compete against those that have been awarded and recruited in the same way.
IMO, 30-32 is the ideal roster, with half being pitchers. You NEVER have enough pitching. But to show up and have to compete with 5 catchers (example) is ridiculous. Do your homework, if you see a high profile player played a position he's most likely got it for another 2-3 years. You are not gonna get it over him, unless he gets hurts or becomes ineligible.
As far as the new rules, I think that you only have to be compliant in fall for GPA, not for roster (35) until spring.
A good question to ask is about redshirt. At the school where son went (that sounds too sad now
) all players were given a uniform and all had to attend games and most traveled to non conference games. This makes them part of teh team even though sitting out for a year. In D1, 28 can travel in uniform for conference games, the 25 man roster is not awarded until tourney time and post season. The idea is to show up and compete for a starting position and then make the 25 man for championship games.
In recruiting it is a coaches responsibility to be honest. If he has a second baseman who has played and proved himself, there should be no one question he will receive the job the following year. The coach should be honest to the new recruits that they may have to sit for a year or two behind another player, or use that player at another position.
It always doesn't work out the way they plan it, but if too many are in line for one position, it should be the players decision to leave, not to get cut because too many showed up.
It can be done the right and honest way, some just don't know how to do it.
.
baseballmomtwo....IMO these are definately the right questions, you are on the right track!...I'll take a first crack at this....
1. Who do you talk to about the environment?
Caveat: While you DEFINITELY have to take every comment with a grain of salt and work to see through the personal agendas....here are some of the best sources we found...
The HSBBW is a great source, if posters are not comfortable giving info publicly there is a great deal of info given behind the scenes by PM...ask most of the good ones are very happy to help. I know that among many others that TPM, Cleveland Dad, and TR in this thread alone are a wealth of info and do a great deal of behind the scenes good. Most every school can be researched here. For most you can get varying viewpoints, with the truth in the middle which is exactly the way you want it.
...Another great source is to sit in the stands and listen....there is a wealth of information trading hands there...won't take long to see who has the info...other parents can be a great source, they know former players, they know kids in the programs, they have roster read, many have older siblings and so have been through the process before, and have watched scores of kids in and out of many programs. In the recruiting process some parents DO get connected with some great sources of information (coaches, scouts, recruiters...)and those parents are happy to share.
...Showcase directors often know a great deal. Our first showcase the director was shorthanded. I offered to help. Pitched in. The guy has been an INVALUABLE source of info ever since. I bird dog/scout/suggest players for him in my area I ask for a few bits of info in return. I respect his opinions, his privacy, and I let him know how much I appreciate his help.
...In the end after you are done YOU are likely to share! That's what makes this thing work.
2. Will you look like a meddling parent?
There are meddling parents and then there is due diligence. One is not the other. Meddling parents are trying to manipulate the system, those doing due diligence are trying to understand and evaluate the system in order to better understand it and find the right fit. Due diligence is often respected and appreciated. Makes the recruiters job easier if you know the opportunities AND the warts.
3. If you speak to a current player, will he talk with the coach about your concerns or questions and could that hurt you being recruited?
Possibly, but with our two I found that the schools that are straight up and honest about wanting you, WANT you to know everything so that you come in feeling really up about the fit and sure that this is the best choice. When a coach expressed interest, we asked them for help understanding just what this opportunity offered. Second, if a coach sours on you for wanting to research and better understand the fit then that is probably not a place you want to be.
4. How close are parents and college coaches?
Really varies by school....but be VERY clear the relationship in college ball is MUCH different than any ball you have experienced before. If they want your input they will ask for it, and most times they don't. Winning is here is someones job, and they want it in their hands, not in yours. If you were a coach you'd be in their dugout. And a big part of the fit you are looking for is a fit between your son and the coaching staff NOT between the parents and the staff. Is this the kind of staff he will flourish under? Upbeat? Autocratic? Tough? Developing?
5. Is it political like it can be in high school?
Yes. it can be, a few are known for that....at the risk of overstating it, after being in the stands for a few years, nearly every parent whose son is not playing thinks at some level it's political, those playing are sure it's fair...the truth is that College ball is not for sissies....This is not always a fair fight, at some point in time you are simply going to have to beat out some excellent players, politics, perceptions, scholarship amounts, and physical limitations.....with attitude, hard work, and success....to get AB's, or innings. Particularly the higher you shoot.
Hope this helps, and continues the conversation...
44
.
quote:My feelings have changed on this now that my son has been in college.
baseballmomtwo....IMO these are definately the right questions, you are on the right track!...I'll take a first crack at this....
1. Who do you talk to about the environment?
Caveat: While you DEFINITELY have to take every comment with a grain of salt and work to see through the personal agendas....here are some of the best sources we found...
The HSBBW is a great source, if posters are not comfortable giving info publicly there is a great deal of info given behind the scenes by PM...ask most of the good ones are very happy to help. I know that among many others that TPM, Cleveland Dad, and TR in this thread alone are a wealth of info and do a great deal of behind the scenes good. Most every school can be researched here. For most you can get varying viewpoints, with the truth in the middle which is exactly the way you want it.
...Another great source is to sit in the stands and listen....there is a wealth of information trading hands there...won't take long to see who has the info...other parents can be a great source, they know former players, they know kids in the programs, they have roster read, many have older siblings and so have been through the process before, and have watched scores of kids in and out of many programs. In the recruiting process some parents DO get connected with some great sources of information (coaches, scouts, recruiters...)and those parents are happy to share.
...Showcase directors often know a great deal. Our first showcase the director was shorthanded. I offered to help. Pitched in. The guy has been an INVALUABLE source of info ever since. I bird dog/scout/suggest players for him in my area I ask for a few bits of info in return. I respect his opinions, his privacy, and I let him know how much I appreciate his help.
...In the end after you are done YOU are likely to share! That's what makes this thing work.
2. Will you look like a meddling parent?
There are meddling parents and then there is due diligence. One is not the other. Meddling parents are trying to manipulate the system, those doing due diligence are trying to understand and evaluate the system in order to better understand it and find the right fit. Due diligence is often respected and appreciated. Makes the recruiters job easier if you know the opportunities AND the warts.
3. If you speak to a current player, will he talk with the coach about your concerns or questions and could that hurt you being recruited?
Possibly, but with our two I found that the schools that are straight up and honest about wanting you, WANT you to know everything so that you come in feeling really up about the fit and sure that this is the best choice. When a coach expressed interest, we asked them for help understanding just what this opportunity offered. Second, if a coach sours on you for wanting to research and better understand the fit then that is probably not a place you want to be.
4. How close are parents and college coaches?
Really varies by school....but be VERY clear the relationship in college ball is MUCH different than any ball you have experienced before. If they want your input they will ask for it, and most times they don't. Winning is here is someones job, and they want it in their hands, not in yours. If you were a coach you'd be in their dugout. And a big part of the fit you are looking for is a fit between your son and the coaching staff NOT between the parents and the staff. Is this the kind of staff he will flourish under? Upbeat? Autocratic? Tough? Developing?
5. Is it political like it can be in high school?
Yes. it can be, a few are known for that....at the risk of overstating it, after being in the stands for a few years, nearly every parent whose son is not playing thinks at some level it's political, those playing are sure it's fair...the truth is that College ball is not for sissies....This is not always a fair fight, at some point in time you are simply going to have to beat out some excellent players, politics, perceptions, scholarship amounts, and physical limitations.....with attitude, hard work, and success....to get AB's, or innings. Particularly the higher you shoot.
Hope this helps, and continues the conversation...
44.
Thanks observer44
There is so much to consider and to be quite honest, we never knew our son would go this far in the process. We keep all doors open until one closes and then move on. So far the doors are still open at the D1 level, if that door closes, we go to the next level etc. I am trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can.
There is so much to consider and to be quite honest, we never knew our son would go this far in the process. We keep all doors open until one closes and then move on. So far the doors are still open at the D1 level, if that door closes, we go to the next level etc. I am trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can.
.
Congratulations! Sounds as if you are blessed!
Just keep reading, and listening and asking and learning. We have all been there. It's not as complicated as it looks, but it definately pays to do your homework. You may not know the answers but at least you'll know the questions to ask.
Some of it is learning on the job. Interested coaches are happy to answer your questions.
The HSBBW is a great resource. Search the site. Read the articles not just the threads. Then search the threads. Ask questions.
With some work and reasearch you'll find the right/best fit for your son in in baseball, academic, geographic, social, financial areas.
And remember to enjoy yourselves some, it is a wild, exciting, fun (arguable!), once in a lifetime thrill ride.
44
.
Congratulations! Sounds as if you are blessed!
Just keep reading, and listening and asking and learning. We have all been there. It's not as complicated as it looks, but it definately pays to do your homework. You may not know the answers but at least you'll know the questions to ask.
Some of it is learning on the job. Interested coaches are happy to answer your questions.
The HSBBW is a great resource. Search the site. Read the articles not just the threads. Then search the threads. Ask questions.
With some work and reasearch you'll find the right/best fit for your son in in baseball, academic, geographic, social, financial areas.
And remember to enjoy yourselves some, it is a wild, exciting, fun (arguable!), once in a lifetime thrill ride.
44.
After just finishing our first year of college baseball I will say that if I were a coach I would over recruit. You almost have to do it.
Kids drop out for various reason..cant handle being away from home..college ball wasnt what they expected...they cant make the grades..so many reasons a kid that you picked as a great recruit just doesnt work out.
If you dont over recruit then when these kids leave the program you wont have a team left.
Also competition is healthy and you want to earn a spot not just be given a spot.
Kids drop out for various reason..cant handle being away from home..college ball wasnt what they expected...they cant make the grades..so many reasons a kid that you picked as a great recruit just doesnt work out.
If you dont over recruit then when these kids leave the program you wont have a team left.
Also competition is healthy and you want to earn a spot not just be given a spot.
Great points 44. As CD said try not to over think this process.
Niner has a great point.
Things change from year to year and even semester to semester. Coaches leave players leave, transfers come in and new recruits in the fall. The landscape can chamge very abruptly as in anything in life you have to adapt.
You will never escape politics in anything. Just make sure you get the vote.
Niner has a great point.
Things change from year to year and even semester to semester. Coaches leave players leave, transfers come in and new recruits in the fall. The landscape can chamge very abruptly as in anything in life you have to adapt.
You will never escape politics in anything. Just make sure you get the vote.
quote:Originally posted by Niner's Parent:
Kids drop out for various reason..cant handle being away from home..college ball wasnt what they expected...they cant make the grades..so many reasons a kid that you picked as a great recruit just doesnt work out.
IMO, that is what happens when the coach hasn't done a good recruiting job.
maybe 1 or 2, but that view is wrong & the sure sign of a poor or lazy DI recruiterquote:by niner: Kids drop out for various reason..cant handle being away from home..college ball wasnt what they expected...they cant make the grades..so many reasons a kid that you picked as a great recruit just doesnt work out... If you dont over recruit then when these kids leave the program you wont have a team left.
(D-III is different)
jmo, but ... a very good one
Bee>-
since there are no scholarships in d3, how does the recruiting change, do the coaches not overstock as much in their programs?
since there are no scholarships in d3, how does the recruiting change, do the coaches not overstock as much in their programs?
i agree with TPM in that i understand competition will be evident at any school, but I think that from a player's perspective, you will not get much of a shot if their are lots of people trying for one position, i am by no means saying that a player should just get an automatic roster spot, but they should go in knowing they will have to compete with a reasonable chance of getting playing time.
quote:Originally posted by Chris Davis:
i agree with TPM in that i understand competition will be evident at any school, but I think that from a player's perspective, you will not get much of a shot if their are lots of people trying for one position, i am by no means saying that a player should just get an automatic roster spot, but they should go in knowing they will have to compete with a reasonable chance of getting playing time.
Chris,
Not that familiar with D2 and D3 and I understand they have huge rosters.
As far as D1, if a coach recruits the honest and correct way, a player offered a scholarship will compete against one or two for a position. If the coach has really done his homework, he will recruit those that have the tools and talent to play any position,even if he has never played it before.
makes sense-there is a lot of value in versatility
All D III's have fall tryouts, but what that means varies considerably.
At some schools, "recruited" players are guaranteed a roster spot for their first year, really all a D III can offer except for academic money on an equal footing with all students. Private schools, normally costing considerably more than public schools, often have substantial academic money available to make the cost comparable to public schools.
Some schools notoriously over recruit, leading a lot of players to believe they're in relatively exclusive company, only to show up in the fall and have several other players "recruited" at the same position. Nobody will be handed playing time for sure, but it's a bit unfair IMHO when 6 guys show up, all that were told "you've got a chance to have significant playing time as a freshman", at the same position.
Other schools have teams consistently made up of truly "recruited players", and players making the team as unknowns are pretty rare. At my sons' school, in each of the last two years they had two days of fall tryouts; the first year, none were selected, the second year, two were invited to participate in fall workouts. Kind of comical at times, some guys will show up in cut off shorts and sneakers, but tryouts are tryouts. Recruited players are not required to go through tryouts.
If you're looking at D III's, do your homework and ask questions as practices vary considerably and you want to know what to expect.
At some schools, "recruited" players are guaranteed a roster spot for their first year, really all a D III can offer except for academic money on an equal footing with all students. Private schools, normally costing considerably more than public schools, often have substantial academic money available to make the cost comparable to public schools.
Some schools notoriously over recruit, leading a lot of players to believe they're in relatively exclusive company, only to show up in the fall and have several other players "recruited" at the same position. Nobody will be handed playing time for sure, but it's a bit unfair IMHO when 6 guys show up, all that were told "you've got a chance to have significant playing time as a freshman", at the same position.
Other schools have teams consistently made up of truly "recruited players", and players making the team as unknowns are pretty rare. At my sons' school, in each of the last two years they had two days of fall tryouts; the first year, none were selected, the second year, two were invited to participate in fall workouts. Kind of comical at times, some guys will show up in cut off shorts and sneakers, but tryouts are tryouts. Recruited players are not required to go through tryouts.
If you're looking at D III's, do your homework and ask questions as practices vary considerably and you want to know what to expect.
.
Have always said...
Recruited walk-on is in the eye of the beholder...be SURE you are clear on the meaning, the process, the numbers and the firmness of the roster spot...
...if any.
44
.
Have always said...
Recruited walk-on is in the eye of the beholder...be SURE you are clear on the meaning, the process, the numbers and the firmness of the roster spot...
...if any.
44.
quote:Originally posted by observer44:
.
Have always said...
Recruited walk-on is in the eye of the beholder...be SURE you are clear on the meaning, the process, the numbers and the firmness of the roster spot...
...if any.
.
i would think the best way to know what a recruited walk on means is to ask the coach of a program for their meaning as it is their perception of what it means that is important. However I would assume that it ould greatly vary from coach to coach
44 it has always been my opinion that no one is safe unless you are outstanding on the field. You can quickly become last weeks flavor of the week. Getting a roster spot is a big step and I mean the spring roster & 25 man roster. It is a spot that you must constanly keep earning. I have seen guys who do well for a couple years and then fall off and then they are gone. The new rules if imposed will probably make that environment even more cut throat.
It is not uncommon for pitchers in their JR Sr years to run out of steam and see their innings reduced dramatically. I have always been puzzled by this.
I don't think it is dishonest or from laziness to see over recruiting but a coach often needs to see some guys more than he got a chance to. Many of the fall guys are walk ons and some guys they didn't have money for. BB money can offten be insignificant if the player has max academic money. I just can't understand why most players would want to walk on unless it is a dream school and they did max academic money.
It is not uncommon for pitchers in their JR Sr years to run out of steam and see their innings reduced dramatically. I have always been puzzled by this.
I don't think it is dishonest or from laziness to see over recruiting but a coach often needs to see some guys more than he got a chance to. Many of the fall guys are walk ons and some guys they didn't have money for. BB money can offten be insignificant if the player has max academic money. I just can't understand why most players would want to walk on unless it is a dream school and they did max academic money.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The new rules if imposed will probably make that environment even more cut throat.
new rules? a roster cap?
Before the coach might carry a guy he has not made his mind up on or who may need development and shows great potential. With the cap and scholly changes hr may not be able to. Immediate impct could be the crireia of necessity.
Well Nebraska sure changes there roster from year to year in an amazing fashion...
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
With the cap and scholly changes hr may not be able to.
I'm sorry to sound silly but what are the changes, i didn't know anything was being changed?
It seems as if everyone has kinda beat around the bush a little bit. Is there over recruiting, YES. DO all schools follow that, NO. Is it lazy, Not necessarily. Is in needed? Not necessarily. But I can tell you this, follow the turnover of ANY ROSTER at just about any SCHOOL. Ultimately we are dealing with 17 year old kids, making the decision of their lifetime. And that decision many times hinges on Baseball. Unfortunately, 99% of those "kids" will never play meaningful baseball after college, but many think they are pro prospects before hand. They go to a school and ultimately after the spring look to transfer, why...there are many reasons but the bottom line is simple it wasn't the right fit. The problem with that is how do coaches combat that. Well they bring in 3-4 players at that position and if a couple transfer, then their OK. This is why the NCAA changed transfer and scholarship rules for DI this year. This is why the graduation rates "appear" (I could really stur up some issues with that) to be low in baseball. THis season alone I have 9 4 year transfers coming into my program, is that over recruiting or giving somone an opportunity. I say to each of my recruits, you will have your opportunity, but if Ivan Rodriguez comes through the door he has the chance to take your spot. Each of my guys is treated fairly and with respect so even though we receive transfers, we've never had anyone transfer out in the 9 years of my program. BOTTOM LINE! This is a HUGE decision for a 17 year old to make, and it can be compounded by a parent, or parents telling the kid that they are Florida State material, and many times none of the 3 in the decision making process has even seen a college baseball game, or look at a couple different schools and games to truly get a feel for the competition level. Make the right decision the first time, it will not only save you MONEY (transfer scholarships are much smaller) it will also save you a lot of heartache and stress. I hope this sheds at least some light on the question and the understanding from what both the coach and the player has to deal with. And this is not mention those at the DIII level who deposit, say their coming and change their mind over the summer. People who just DO NOT stand behind their word. DIII's are forced to be prepared for that situation. Also, when a kid is offered $500 for books at a DI and changes his mind and goes, hence the reason they are forcing the 33% rule for DI's. Too many kids and parent are whooed by the allure of DI, and $500 in scholarship just to say they are on a baseball scholarship. Hope this helps!
Crris D Vic touches on some of the changes that will affect the recruiting of college [layers. Academics become more of a concern as the players cannot lighten their loade in spring and pick up coarses in the summer. Fail a course and you are inelligible reagardles of GPA.
33% rule, 35 roster cap, 27 max scholarships and so on. I feel that you are seeing son antisipatory results already even before the ratification of the rules.
If you follow college ball you will notice a huge turn over in rosters. Sohs getting cut at exit meeting with coach and some guys who might have got a book only scholarship because the coach thought he would develop into a great player won't get a shot.
Over recruiting will probably be a thing of the past. It can be a shock if you are unaware that there is 40-50 guys trying out for 35 spots if you aren't warned.
33% rule, 35 roster cap, 27 max scholarships and so on. I feel that you are seeing son antisipatory results already even before the ratification of the rules.
If you follow college ball you will notice a huge turn over in rosters. Sohs getting cut at exit meeting with coach and some guys who might have got a book only scholarship because the coach thought he would develop into a great player won't get a shot.
Over recruiting will probably be a thing of the past. It can be a shock if you are unaware that there is 40-50 guys trying out for 35 spots if you aren't warned.
VJC i appreciate your input and you have direct experience with this so thank you for the input. so bobblehead these new rules say you can only have 35 guys on the roster, so then you're saying that there will be more competition for each spot on that roster am i correct?
I think that is correct and also coaches won't be able to gamble on a player as much. I believe the words "Immidiate Impact " may be the rule by which a coach will apply.
VJC great post! 
Don't think not showing up happens to just D3 schools. Many times a player will commit to D1 programs and state he has full intentions to come to school, possibly not if drafted high, tells scouts he really wants to get drafted and will sign regardless of draft position. This messes everyone up. Many players are not honest with the coaches as well, it works both ways.
Don't think not showing up happens to just D3 schools. Many times a player will commit to D1 programs and state he has full intentions to come to school, possibly not if drafted high, tells scouts he really wants to get drafted and will sign regardless of draft position. This messes everyone up. Many players are not honest with the coaches as well, it works both ways.
quote:Originally posted by Chris Davis:
is overrecruiting a common occurrence at schools for baseball? or is it something that tends to happen with more high profile baseball schools?
Let's see some Facts vs Opinions
Fact: There is over-recruiting at several & sometimes top D1 baseball schools.
Opinion: Has the term 'just like an airline reservation system' be used as an analogy for collegiate over recruiting? Yes
Fact: Is the NCAA attempting to address the 'over recruiting' environment? Yes
Opinion: Has the NCAA gone far enough? No
Fact: Are the University's President and Athletic Directors aware of the over-recruiting practices by college coaches? Yes
Fact: What D1 Conferences are notorious for over-recruiting?
Opinion: How many D1 Conferences are there?
Regards
Bear
Question that might fit this thread
Is the 33% rule in effect this year or next year?
I heard it may be under review August 1 07 but still be in effect?
Is the 33% rule in effect this year or next year?
I heard it may be under review August 1 07 but still be in effect?
The DI Baseball Committe is meeting in San Diego right now. (per NCAA website). Another DI Baseball Comm meeeting is slated for 8/15-17 in Milwaukee.
Web states legislative proposals (amendments) were submitted by 7/15 deadline, which for DI is an extension of the April Board of Directors meeting (what ever that menas!)
As it stands this rule is in effect with players entering college in the fall of 2008, playing in Spring 2009.
Web states legislative proposals (amendments) were submitted by 7/15 deadline, which for DI is an extension of the April Board of Directors meeting (what ever that menas!)
As it stands this rule is in effect with players entering college in the fall of 2008, playing in Spring 2009.
one thing to watch out for especially in d3 is the disappering roster players. coaches who bring in 20 or more players in a freshman class then squeeze them out by bringing in 20 more the next year, with no real opportunity given because they have view "true" spots available. this seems to be common in a lot of d3's and is noticable by looking at the rosters and statistics. Out of the freshman maybe only 1 or 2 are given any real shot at making a contribution.
