Exactly TPM - If you look at the fall roster and you see 50 kids and then suddenly in the spring there are 35 kids, this should be a red flag to do investigation of that program. What happened to those kids - were they told something that didn't hold water in the end. Where they all walkons that just changed their minds? It gives you a piece of the puzzle when researching a school.
lafmom,
It's just the way it is at some big schools I suppose.
It's the players and parents responsibility to seek out information first.
It's just the way it is at some big schools I suppose.
It's the players and parents responsibility to seek out information first.
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Ran into this the other day while looking at programs..
Roster of 40 last year
Lost 10 to draft or seniors last spring
Well over 20 announced recruits arrived in September
Gonna be some interesting roster moves.
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Ran into this the other day while looking at programs..
Roster of 40 last year
Lost 10 to draft or seniors last spring
Well over 20 announced recruits arrived in September
Gonna be some interesting roster moves.
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The rules are simple. Unless restricted by school or individual conference you must be at 11.7 or less by your third competition. They (coaches)can use it any way that it fits their needs. Ultimately, we all know who pays the price. You have to do your homework.... 
I know we counted heads in team pictures in each of the media guides that we received and were surprised when some were 40+...As stated earlier, news and archives from school sites give you the recruiting classes for the last few years..
I know we counted heads in team pictures in each of the media guides that we received and were surprised when some were 40+...As stated earlier, news and archives from school sites give you the recruiting classes for the last few years..
I'm aware that there are many ways to do things -
but, it would seem that programs that use the fall to trim a significant number of players are not really very good at:
identifying & judging talent that fits their program
that should already have been done long ago at showcases, hs & summer ball, etc before they're even recruited - let alone enroll & arrive on campus
developing talent once it's there
in the case of "non-freshman" frequently vanishing from the roster in significant numbers - that's an indication of a non-teaching staff, putting minimum effort into teaching & developing players
but, it would seem that programs that use the fall to trim a significant number of players are not really very good at:
identifying & judging talent that fits their program
that should already have been done long ago at showcases, hs & summer ball, etc before they're even recruited - let alone enroll & arrive on campus
developing talent once it's there
in the case of "non-freshman" frequently vanishing from the roster in significant numbers - that's an indication of a non-teaching staff, putting minimum effort into teaching & developing players
A number of colleges we have spoken to have said that they carry 45 to 50 in Fall. Some will even have open tryouts for Fall. This gives them enough of a squad for intersquad fall games...and maybe a "surprise catch". Most of the roster over 40 is made up of walk-ons who face an uphill battle (this is not meant to be disparaging to walk-ons). Add acouple red-shirts due to injury or planned freshman red shirts and you are at the right roster.
Roster size definitely should be a red flag but like others have said you can't go by the website by itself. You need to talk to the coaches and inquire (such as on here) to learn more about the rosters. Also would recommend looking at prior roster which can be available in archives on some web-sites to see how many players disappear off of Spring Rosters from year to year and discuss with coaches.
Roster size definitely should be a red flag but like others have said you can't go by the website by itself. You need to talk to the coaches and inquire (such as on here) to learn more about the rosters. Also would recommend looking at prior roster which can be available in archives on some web-sites to see how many players disappear off of Spring Rosters from year to year and discuss with coaches.
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Bee...Excellent point. Well observed.
NC Dad...While I believe heavily in communication and would really like to believe that coaches who are trimming significant numnbers in the fall would be forthright and honest when asked about their proceedures...the very nature of what they are doing would lead this cynical observer to believe that you'd probably get less than a straight scoop. They have agenda to get big numbers in, keep only the cream and cut the rest loose, and will tell you what you want to hear to make that happen.
One of the teams at Omaha last year has a real reputation for over recruting but continues to be able to pull that off because they continue to win. Often players and parents are blinded by their own talent. "Hey, I'm talented enough to play anywhere, I can beat the over-recruting..."
The saddest thing however, is when a good player who might have played at other schools doesn't do his research and goes in blind to the process. Particularly sad if the are recruited across the country.
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Bee...Excellent point. Well observed.
NC Dad...While I believe heavily in communication and would really like to believe that coaches who are trimming significant numnbers in the fall would be forthright and honest when asked about their proceedures...the very nature of what they are doing would lead this cynical observer to believe that you'd probably get less than a straight scoop. They have agenda to get big numbers in, keep only the cream and cut the rest loose, and will tell you what you want to hear to make that happen.
One of the teams at Omaha last year has a real reputation for over recruting but continues to be able to pull that off because they continue to win. Often players and parents are blinded by their own talent. "Hey, I'm talented enough to play anywhere, I can beat the over-recruting..."
The saddest thing however, is when a good player who might have played at other schools doesn't do his research and goes in blind to the process. Particularly sad if the are recruited across the country.
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As long as the player realizes what the ramifications of those high fall rosters might mean, there's no problem. It's when they sign or arrive and then "shocked" is when the problems occurs.
The poster asked us their opinion if their son had a realistic offer from a school that has a large fall roster. I think the general consesus is, "let the buyer beware".
The poster asked us their opinion if their son had a realistic offer from a school that has a large fall roster. I think the general consesus is, "let the buyer beware".
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Agreed.
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Agreed.
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There is no overcruiting if the player has done his homework during the recruiting process and comes into his frosh year with eyes open
One last thought, if the player has been highly recruited and received a very good offer, I wouldn't worry too much about it, really. The red flag should go to players who have been offered very little in a way of an incentive to come play at the school. Some say their son would prefer to go to the bigger school and see how it goes. I wouldn't advise that for my son.
A few returning players at CU left this fall due to the realization that they would have limited playing time in the spring. I am sure although the possibility of Omaha was exciting, chances were slim they wouldn't make the travel squad. They have gone off to schools where they will be regulars, I would imagine. Even though they were on the spring roster, it just wasn't enough. They just wanted to play ball.
It's easy for us to assume that our sons might know what is right for them. It is hard for them to look past the possibilities of many different scenerios, our job to help tehm find teh right fit under the right circumstances.
A few returning players at CU left this fall due to the realization that they would have limited playing time in the spring. I am sure although the possibility of Omaha was exciting, chances were slim they wouldn't make the travel squad. They have gone off to schools where they will be regulars, I would imagine. Even though they were on the spring roster, it just wasn't enough. They just wanted to play ball.
It's easy for us to assume that our sons might know what is right for them. It is hard for them to look past the possibilities of many different scenerios, our job to help tehm find teh right fit under the right circumstances.
quote:One last thought, if the player has been highly recruited and received a very good offer, I wouldn't worry too much about it, really
quote:The red flag should go to players who have been offered very little in a way of an incentive to come play at the school.
Ditto.