Parent/Coach Conflict

Reading between the lines here obviously, but it sounds like a few: "Johnny got cussed at by one of his coaches & it really hurt his feelings," incidents got sent up the ladder & that just will not stand in todays snowflake world.

So, is it your position that a coach cussing out a High School player is appropriate?

A HS coach is a mentor; his behavior is supposed to be an example. If an adult needs to communicate with a kid by cussing him out rather than explaining in words typically used in the English language he should find another job.

Goosegg posted:

So, is it your position that a coach cussing out a High School player is appropriate?

A HS coach is a mentor; his behavior is supposed to be an example. If an adult needs to communicate with a kid by cussing him out rather than explaining in words typically used in the English language he should find another job.

See this happen all the time, and at all ages in travel ball, just tells me the coach does not know how to communicate or control himself, which indicates they probably aren't much of a coach.

Give the player constructive feedback to allow them to change their performance. All cussing at someone does is make the "cusser" feel better.

HS and under the coach should not be cussing at a player.  The only excuse for doing that over HS is they are adults at that point. It is still lazy, poor, and ineffective communication skills that coach is using. Coaching is management and nobody would seriously consider that effective in real world situations.

I don't care about the language so much. Kids hear worse language listening to music driving to school than they'll hear from even the most foul-mouthed coach.  What bugs me is when I hear about coaches belittling players, telling them they suck, they're quitters, rubbing their BA in their noses, that sort of thing.

A lot of soft people in this world.  

Since it didn't say what the incident(s) were, and the administration was carefully wording it's statements, pretty much nothing there to comment on.

SanDiegoRealist posted:

Goosegg posted:

So, is it your position that a coach cussing out a High School player is appropriate?

A HS coach is a mentor; his behavior is supposed to be an example. If an adult needs to communicate with a kid by cussing him out rather than explaining in words typically used in the English language he should find another job.

See this happen all the time, and at all ages in travel ball, just tells me the coach does not know how to communicate or control himself, which indicates they probably aren't much of a coach.

Give the player constructive feedback to allow them to change their performance. All cussing at someone does is make the "cusser" feel better.

There's an old story about a mule which was sold by an old man to his neighbor.  After a few days the neighbor complained to the old man that he couldn't get the mule to do anything.  The neighbor pushed and pulled, coaxed and prodded.  Nothing.  The old man said "you're doing it wrong."  He then picked up a 2x4 and wacked the mule accross the head.  Then he whispered in his ear and presto the mule did what he was told.  The neighbor asked what happened.  The old man said you need to get his attention first.  

Some times you need to use aggressive language to get a player's attention.  So I and my kid can tolerate it.  

Damn glad some of you folks aren't in charge of my kids football program!  I think JCG nailed this one. Who cares about the language.  It's when the coach is seriously abusive which by the way can be done without ever uttering a cuss word. And a coach can be a great father figure a cuss like a drunken sailor (with apologies to any navy/coast guard vets out there!).  I cuss.  Quite a bit actually.  Not proud AND not ashamed just who I am.  Like  ole Samuel Clemons said (paraphrasing, too lazy to look up exact quote) - they are some of the most descriptive words we have, would be a damn shame not to use em!

I cuss in my garage and while driving, for example.   I personally have never had a problem with hearing my varsity colleagues use salty language with their varsity players; their team, their style.  

Im not necessarily opposed to it but for me as a classroom teacher I can't cuss on the ball field because the next thing I know I'll be doing it in my classroom.    I will.  And that would definitely be a problem.   So I keep my same teacher persona on the field with my JVs as I do in my classroom.  And for the record, I don't tolerate foul language from my JV players. I point to the varsity side of the field and say, "Make that team someday and you can cuss all you want."  

I pretty much am still in teacher mode when I'm coaching.  Like I said, I can't act one way in front of my students from 7-3pm then act a different way from 3-6pm in front of the same kids.   Not my style.  

Im definitely the old fart out there.   Not as hip and fun as some of the young varsity coaches are and I am fine with that.  

I do think a baseball program and accompanying coaching staff (JV and Varsity) needs all kinds of coaching styles to suit all the different types of kids who play thru the 4-years.  Nothing wrong with a kid being exposed to 3 or 5 coaches and yes, mentors, who all have different coaching styles.   

I cuss. When I hit my head with a hammer, when a driver cuts me off, when my garden develops mildew. In other words, I'm cussing into thin air and not breaking down a HS sophomore.

My kids cuss. Within our household, we understand that type of communication.

There is a huge difference between cussing at an event (into thin air) and cussing at a kid, in front of a team. In those instances, cussing is meant to humiliate, intimidate, and break a kid. Now, the army uses it to accomplish the same goal - humiliation, intimidation and to break down a personality so it can better fit within a unit and remove the individuality of the person. Is that a HS coach a parent wants; how does that foster a love for the game?

Anyone, to me, who views playing a game in HS in the same vein as a 19 year old in basic training is misunderstanding of the purpose of salty language. Hitting a HS kid with the equivalent of a 2X4 (analogizing a kid with a mule) accomplishes what? Male brains haven't yet fully developed in HS; a mentor (who is, after all, a person the kids want to emulate) applying the military basic training approach means the kids think it's perfectly fine to humiliate, intimidate and break peers. "Coach does it, why can't I do it?"

Want to get the kids attention? Let another hard working kid get his playing time. The benched kid (after it's explained) - if he wants - will use his logic to figure out how to earn his spot back - it distinguishes us from the mules who need to be whacked with a piece of lumber to perform simple tasks like plowing.

Assistant brought up a very interesting point: where do you draw the line. How about a science teacher cussing a kid out in front of the class for a poor test result?  Is it the fresh air of a diamond which distinguishes the situations? 

As for getting them ready to fend off such events in their place of employment - who needs to work in such an environment when a kid has a degree? 

Did I miss something in the article about cussing?  Since we are saying that coaches got in trouble it had to be from cussing then I guess it had to be in there but I guess I overlooked it.

I don't mind the cussing as long as it's done with class and to motivate the kid and done to all.  We all do it, don't we? 

Goosegg posted:

I cuss. When I hit my head with a hammer, when a driver cuts me off, when my garden develops mildew. In other words, I'm cussing into thin air and not breaking down a HS sophomore.

My kids cuss. Within our household, we understand that type of communication.

There is a huge difference between cussing at an event (into thin air) and cussing at a kid, in front of a team. In those instances, cussing is meant to humiliate, intimidate, and break a kid. Now, the army uses it to accomplish the same goal - humiliation, intimidation and to break down a personality so it can better fit within a unit and remove the individuality of the person. Is that a HS coach a parent wants; how does that foster a love for the game?

Anyone, to me, who views playing a game in HS in the same vein as a 19 year old in basic training is misunderstanding of the purpose of salty language. Hitting a HS kid with the equivalent of a 2X4 (analogizing a kid with a mule) accomplishes what? Male brains haven't yet fully developed in HS; a mentor (who is, after all, a person the kids want to emulate) applying the military basic training approach means the kids think it's perfectly fine to humiliate, intimidate and break peers. "Coach does it, why can't I do it?"

Want to get the kids attention? Let another hard working kid get his playing time. The benched kid (after it's explained) - if he wants - will use his logic to figure out how to earn his spot back - it distinguishes us from the mules who need to be whacked with a piece of lumber to perform simple tasks like plowing.

Assistant brought up a very interesting point: where do you draw the line. How about a science teacher cussing a kid out in front of the class for a poor test result?  Is it the fresh air of a diamond which distinguishes the situations? 

As for getting them ready to fend off such events in their place of employment - who needs to work in such an environment when a kid has a degree? 

The meanest most unfeeling crass awful people who couldn't care less about anybody but themselves I ever worked for were corporate America bank management.  Cut throat terrible people.  They never cussed. They were prim and proper to your face.  Never told you what they were really thinking and slit your throat behind your back. I would love to work for somebody who cussed me out and let me know  exactly where I stood and exactly what they wanted me to do. No mind games. Politicians rarely cuss - you trust them?  We won't even get into phoney religious leaders.  Statement to fend off the PC police - no they are not all phoney.  I also do not cuss in the classroom. Speaking of non cussing phoneys - school administrators!!!  Honestly don't really cuss as a coach much.  Used to but I have calmed over the years.  But in fairness any recent coaching I have done was more just to help out and not as passionate as years ago. I guess the point is who cares?  Cuss don't cuss - just be yourself and hopefully a great coach.  It's about development and winning.  I really don't give a crap about mentorship.  Isn't that our job as parents?  You going to shelter your kids from everyone whose style you don't completely agree with?  Then when you shockingly find out your own kid drops the F bomb every other word when he is in the locker room?  Remember locker room talk?  Much ado about nothing. 

The white collar world is full of hypocrites who would never dream of cussing - how gauche! (Had to find out how to spell that!). Give me the blue Jean clad hard living cussing foreman anytime. 

Goosegg posted:

So, is it your position that a coach cussing out a High School player is appropriate?

A HS coach is a mentor; his behavior is supposed to be an example. If an adult needs to communicate with a kid by cussing him out rather than explaining in words typically used in the English language he should find another job.

I'm not saying its appropriate & I'm not saying its inappropriate. What I am saying is that if you continue to play this game at a high level, you had better be prepared to deal with all kinds of different coaching styles & not have your Mommy go crying to some official when things do not go your way. 

It's the most expressive word in the English language ... 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L5-akqjKzII

(R rated)

Personally, I don't really have an issue with coaches using strong language.  But, I don't think those who do are unreasonable.

I think the big question here is, or should be, "Why do it?"  Is strong language necessary to be a good coach?  Is it the only way (or the best way) to get your message across?  Are you incapable of being an effective coach without doing it?  

Knowing what people find offensive these days, it seems sorta stupid for a coach to fall into that trap.

Assuming, of course, that is what happened in this case. 

There is a time and place.  I have never been around a group of men in any environment where cussing wasn't used on a regular bases.  Sure,  maybe 10% of males don' t cuss in any environment.  

Side note...my college coach didn't utter a cuss word in 4 years...amazing feat considering what he was working with!  Wish I could have followed in those footsteps.  He's also the only coach I've seen get ejected and talk his way back into the game  ( ump thought he heard GD but it was actually dadgummit...his favorite word). 

RJM posted:

It's the most expressive word in the English language ... 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L5-akqjKzII

(R rated)

Beat me too it.  One of the greatest ever. 

Goosegg posted:

So, is it your position that a coach cussing out a High School player is appropriate?

A HS coach is a mentor; his behavior is supposed to be an example. If an adult needs to communicate with a kid by cussing him out rather than explaining in words typically used in the English language he should find another job.

I agree with you on coaches for sure. What's your feeling about umpires? Apparently we had one at our HS varsity game who was dropping more f-bombs than both teams put together. I thought that was inappropriate as well. Thoughts?

A side note on the cussing thing — kids in lower elementary are very firmly told what is allowed and what isn't. You can't say stupid, or other mean words.

My husband served in our state legislature (yes, a politician). He was very kind and patient with his constituents and with other legislators on both sides of the aisle. He would come home at night with his patience for all the rigamorole exhausted, so he'd cut loose with what he really thought, basically calling them all every name in the book.

"*&^**&^%&**, blankety blankety blank. . .those stupid blankety blanket blanks!"

And our son, then probably 7 or 8, would cut in authoritatively. "Daddy, you can't say stupid!!"

Now 17, he still apologizes to me if he curses. It's not necessary--I probably do it more than he does--but I appreciate it.

Can we please separate language and ridicule?  They are not one and the same!  I am sure we all agree ridiculing a kid just for the sake of debasing him is wrong!  My son would not play for a coach like that.  By the way they can do that without cussing.  And lots of awful human beings make it a point in public to not cuss.  And there are lots of very kind caring coaches who cuss up a storm. The point is language is just language with or without cussing.  So if you are deeply offended by LANGUAGE, not unnecessary ridicule then yes you might be soft!

Ask yourself what  justifies High School sports?  

I would think that the only real answer is that HS sports are somehow connected with the educational mission of the High School.   School is supposed to help foster knowledge, skill, values and character in the student.  

If a teacher in a classroom engaged in "verbal mistreatment"  of students, using whatever kind of language,  you can bet that teacher would be in serious trouble.

  What apparently some HS coaches, especially the ones who aren't actually teachers,  and apparently some  of the "old school"  people  on this board who like to complain about today's players  being "snowflakes,"  don't seem to realize, is that HS coaching  is, in effect, an extension of the educational  mission of the HS --  just as other extracurricular activities, like the drama club, or the robotics club, or the black student union or the whatever are.  It's just  that sports teams do their work on the practice and playing fields, rather than in the classroom.   But so what?  The drama club does its work on the stage. 

Not that students and players don't sometimes need to be called out and disciplined.  Not that they always do their parts.  When they fail to do their parts, they need to be given notice.  Sometimes firm notice.   But there is a  difference between needed discipline and a firm hand, on the one hand, and flat out abuse -- verbal or otherwise -- on the other.  If  you cannot tell the difference,  you really don't belong in a HS environment.  Period. 

FWP posted:

Can we please separate language and ridicule?  They are not one and the same!  I am sure we all agree ridiculing a kid just for the sake of debasing him is wrong!  My son would not play for a coach like that.  By the way they can do that without cussing.  And lots of awful human beings make it a point in public to not cuss.  And there are lots of very kind caring coaches who cuss up a storm. The point is language is just language with or without cussing.  So if you are deeply offended by LANGUAGE, not unnecessary ridicule then yes you might be soft!

Exactly.

Which would you want your kid to be hearing?  Which do you think would have the best chance of working?

A) "Bobby, I got to tell you -  right now your approach at the plate f___ing sucks.  You're too f____ing tentative and you're watching too many f____ing good pitches go by. Get f____ing agressive! Trust  your motherf___ing swing and your motherf___ing hands and hit the motherf____ning ball!  That's all you have to do!  You've done it before and I know you can f____ing do it now! Cause I'll tell you right now, we need you to f___ing produce like you can if we're going to win this thing and right now you're producing s___t.  You can f___ing do it!"

B) "Bobby, I'm sorry to say this, but you've let this team down. You've let me down too. Heck you're letting the whole school down right now.  You're barely hitting your weight. Heck you're not even hitting your IQ this month, and that's not saying much.  I don't know what the problem is. Somebody steal your girlfriend? I'm not surprised.  I'd  walk out too if I was her.   If I was your mom and dad I'd probably throw you out of the house, or at least make you sleep in a tent in the back yard.  You better get it together or you'll be at the end of the bench the rest of the way. Or save me the trouble and just quit the team right now, okay? Will you do that for me?  Just give me your jersey now and quit. That would probably be best."

We are reaching a unique time in education. With all the online and home schooling options out there I believe we are getting to a point where it is actually extra curriculars that justify the school not the other way around. There are so many ways to get your education.  Don't need a school for that.  But you do need a school for SOME sports.  Baseball not being one of them in many areas as some kids just play travel. So while we are not all the way there yet this whole concept will soon look different.   My son plays for a legendary old - and old school - football coach.  Wouldn't have it any other way. And yes there is lots of language.  Oh and this just in - turns out surprisingly enough my son learned those words on the playground in about second grade - ok maybe sooner!

JCG posted:

FWP posted:

Can we please separate language and ridicule?  They are not one and the same!  I am sure we all agree ridiculing a kid just for the sake of debasing him is wrong!  My son would not play for a coach like that.  By the way they can do that without cussing.  And lots of awful human beings make it a point in public to not cuss.  And there are lots of very kind caring coaches who cuss up a storm. The point is language is just language with or without cussing.  So if you are deeply offended by LANGUAGE, not unnecessary ridicule then yes you might be soft!

Exactly.

Which would you want your kid to be hearing?  Which do you think would have the best chance of working?

A) "Bobby, I got to tell you -  right now your approach at the plate f___ing sucks.  You're too f____ing tentative and you're watching too many f____ing good pitches go by. Get f____ing agressive! Trust  your motherf___ing swing and your motherf___ing hands and hit the motherf____ning ball!  That's all you have to do!  You've done it before and I know you can f____ing do it now! Cause I'll tell you right now, we need you to f___ing produce like you can if we're going to win this thing and right now you're producing s___t.  You can f___ing do it!"

B) "Bobby, I'm sorry to say this, but you've let this team down. You've let me down too. Heck you're letting the whole school down right now.  You're barely hitting your weight. Heck you're not even hitting your IQ this month, and that's not saying much.  I don't know what the problem is. Somebody steal your girlfriend? I'm not surprised.  I'd  walk out too if I was her.   If I was your mom and dad I'd probably throw you out of the house, or at least make you sleep in a tent in the back yard.  You better get it together or you'll be at the end of the bench the rest of the way. Or save me the trouble and just quit the team right now, okay? Will you do that for me?  Just give me your jersey now and quit. That would probably be best."

Confirmation I am a bad person...  I was literally laughing out loud reading your second one!  Before I get bashed only cause I knew it was a joke.  Very funny - nice work!

SanDiegoRealist posted:

Goosegg posted:

Want to get the kids attention? Let another hard working kid get his playing time. The benched kid (after it's explained) - if he wants - will use his logic to figure out how to earn his spot back - it distinguishes us from the mules who need to be whacked with a piece of lumber to perform simple tasks like plowing.

----------------------------------------------------

Exactly, Goosegg!

My son has played for both the cussing coaches and the better communicators. You obviously can't control the coach's personality, but I can tell you my kid enjoys the experience more if he isn't going to practice or a game with the thought in the back of his head that if he makes a mistake he will be ridiculed by his coach. Seen this happen many times, always is cringe-worthy.

Some people who are posting on here are acting as though a player/parent who prefers their players be communicated in a humane way are soft. Are you fricking kidding me? Why would anyone desire to be in a coaching environment that is anything other than professional? We have left one team in our time playing this great game due to a coach's behavior, and it wasn't even aimed at us. It just crossed a line. Coaches getting kicked out of games for arguing with umps and dropping the f-bomb...stupid. I saw a coach's tirade on the news out here from last summer in a larger tournament in which the coach literally had a melt down on the field against the home plate umpire. This is a guy who has played at a high level and now has a few teams at many ages. Guess what, someone recorded his melt down and sent it to the local news. It was played on the air and it doesn't matter if you were used to salty language or not, it was an embarrassment and doesn't belong on any baseball diamond.

So save the comments about being soft, it's really ridiculous. Expect a little more from the people you are employing to train/mentor your kids.

This is all fine & dandy in a fantasy world where you get to pick & choose your coach, boss, parents. However, in the real world, you probably don't get to fire your HS coach if he calls you a jackass for missing the bunt sign. I suppose you could transfer, quit every job with jerk management & change your name & shun your parents if you hear Dad drop too many F-Bombs. Good luck with that.

I'm not advocating it, but it happens & you as a player & or parent, need to get over it & find a way to move forward. I suppose its more about feeeelings though so we must step in for our little snowflakes & take away the hurt.

When I coached our summer Legion team [one of the strongest in the State of California], I enjoyed my visit to home plate before the game. If the competition's coach was a "screamer at his players", I knew we would win. I would mentioned to the umpire as we exchange line up cards. "This coach would "give' our team 3 runs with his actions to his players.

Naturally the coach listen and his neck muscles would show tense and I knew we would win.

Our players, all played "relaxed" and enjoyed the game. If they struck out, I said "that there are millions of people in the World who do not care". Then I explained why he struck out and how to adjust.

Bob

JCG, that's actually a great example.

Something that hasn't really been brought up yet though...  cussing, at least in our in our HS section, is not allowed and grounds for ejection in games.  So, there's that. 

At the other extreme, if the kids never hear a coach tirade that includes a string of colorful lingo, man are they in for a surprise when they hit the field for the first time at college.

Always an interesting topic.  I'm older and haven't had too many coaches that were not "colorful".  That said, we adhere to the school and Fed edict of no cussing.  I think it's good for these young men to at least learn that there is a time and place, that there are families present at ball games and therefore, that is definitely not the place.  We consistently correct when we hear it but don't try to listen too closely... we're not that naive and know that it is a regular part of the daily dialog for many.  We try to set the example by avoiding it ourselves.

We have one senior assistant coach in particular who is the "spiritual leader", always the picture of control, 100% positive encouragement, etc.  The once-a-year occurrence when he goes off on a tirade and drops a bomb is a real attention-getter and usually quite effective.  The boys know there is definitely a problem when this happens.

Cabbage also brings up a very important clarification.  I also agree that cussing up a storm in public during a game is very different than the locker room or practice.  Everyone will hear you including gramma. In football during games you better not sit row one if you want to never hear cussing but you can easily get away from it. Public forums are far different from practice/locker room. And tantrums on field with or without cussing are ridiculous. 

Steve A. posted:

 

This is all fine & dandy in a fantasy world where you get to pick & choose your coach, boss, parents. However, in the real world,you probably don't get to fire your HS coach if he calls you a jackass for missing the bunt sign. I suppose you could transfer, quit every job with jerk management & change your name & shun your parents if you hear Dad drop too many F-Bombs. Good luck with that.

I'm not advocating it, but it happens & you as a player & or parent, need to get over it & find a way to move forward. I suppose its more about feeeelings though so we must step in for our little snowflakes & take away the hurt.

About those precious little snowflakes. 

Sure, if the HS coach calls one player a jackass one time, maybe he won't get fired and certainly  the  player  won't be the one doing the firing, in any case.   But let a coach repeatedly engage in that kind of behavior with many different players, and let the players and their parents speak up, and you bet the coach will be out on his rear.  There's more power than you are acknowledging in those weak little snowflakes. 

 I don't know what kind of work you do, but  try  treating your employees like that and calling them snowflakes when they  complain about your abuse, and you  quickly learn about the real power of snowflakes too. 

As for parents, they have a much wider latitude, to be sure   -- much  wider than teachers, coaches and bosses.   And sure, you don't get to choose your parents.   But even so there are limits.  Not necessarily legal limits enforced by the law -- but if it gets too extreme  you bet the  law will step in,  ( I personally know of a parent from my wealthy bucolic silicon valley town where these things just aren't supposed to happen who is spending 45 years in state prison for abusing his own child).

 But extreme cases like that aside, if you just want to have a healthy life-long relationship with your child,  which most parents do,  i would say heaping on verbal abuse in their youth,  out your inability to deal with your  frustrations with them is not the way to start off on such a life-long healthy relationship.

 And calling them snowflakes when they refuse to  put up with your abuse?  Not a really smart or effective parenting strategy. 

SluggerDad posted:

Steve A. posted:

 

This is all fine & dandy in a fantasy world where you get to pick & choose your coach, boss, parents. However, in the real world,you probably don't get to fire your HS coach if he calls you a jackass for missing the bunt sign. I suppose you could transfer, quit every job with jerk management & change your name & shun your parents if you hear Dad drop too many F-Bombs. Good luck with that.

I'm not advocating it, but it happens & you as a player & or parent, need to get over it & find a way to move forward. I suppose its more about feeeelings though so we must step in for our little snowflakes & take away the hurt.

About those precious little snowflakes. 

Sure, if the HS coach calls one player a jackass one time, maybe he won't get fired and certainly  the  player  won't be the one doing the firing, in any case.   But let a coach repeatedly engage in that kind of behavior with many different players, and let the players and their parents speak up, and you bet the coach will be out on his rear.  There's more power than you are acknowledging in those weak little snowflakes. 

 I don't know what kind of work you do, but  try  treating your employees like that and calling them snowflakes when they  complain about your abuse, and you  quickly learn the about real power snowflakes too. 

As for parents, they have a much wider latitude, to be sure   -- much  wider than teachers, coaches and bosses.   And sure, you don't get to choose your parents.   But even so there are limits.  Not necessarily legal limits enforced by the law -- but if it gets too extreme  you bet the  law will step in,  ( I personally know of a parent from my wealthy bucolic silicon valley town where these things just aren't supposed to happen who is spending 45 years in state prison for abusing his own child).

 But extreme cases like that aside, if you just want to have a healthy life-long relationship with your child,  which most parents do,  i would say heaping on verbal abuse in their youth,  out your inability to deal with your  frustrations with them is not the way to start off on such a life-long healthy relationship.

 And calling them snowflakes when they refuse to  put up with your abuse?  Not a really smart or effective parenting strategy. 

 

The quotes from the story are really all we have to go on here: When asked what truth there was regarding  language or "verbal mistreatment," the coach responded: "Nothing more than you would expect to hear on a public school sideline, dugout or baseline." "We can't coach with our hands tied behind our back while walking on eggshells." He lists his 3 guiding principles as: Family, Friends & Faith. This guy is clearly a real monster & must be banned from coaching in silicon valley & any other decent hamlet.

His assistant used some language, Johnny got upset & told Mommy who ran to the administration because Johnny's feelings were hurt. Snowflakes are falling ever so gently.

Perhaps now Saugus High can get a new coach who will hand out a juice box, ribbons & a participation trophy after every game. Forget the ex MLB guy in the dugout who occasionally lit up with some language. Who needs that? Someone's feelings may get hurt!

I love this topic. Everyone has a different take on how coaches should act. Every coach is different and every kid is different. Unacceptable behavior is just that. Unacceptable. 

There is one word that I have come to hate!  "Snowflakes."  What a lame term!  I get so tired of hearing overzealous people trying to minimize the value and persona of people by calling them that derogatory term.

First, I am from Idaho, and if you know much about Idaho, it is definitely Republican.  I would say I am more down the middle, not too conservative, not too liberal, but definitely more conservative than liberal. 

Calling people "Snowflakes" is not helping the situation, and it is certainly widening the divide between people.  We should really be trying to listen and understand where people are coming from, instead of minimizing who they are.

By the way, I wish that I did a better job with my language, and I have tried to improve.  It is definitely hard for me to control what I say, and I am not proud of some of the things I have said to Ryno coming home from a game, at a game, or at anytime. 

Frankly, it is not necessary to talk like that in order to get your point across, and I wish that I never did.  I don't think that makes me a "Snowflake", and you won't find one person who knows me who considers me such. 

I have always been a fighter, and most could consider me a pretty tough guy, but as I get older, I have come to understand that being "tough" doesn't mean cussing and verbal abuse to get your point across.

rynoattack posted:

There is one word that I have come to hate!  "Snowflakes."  What a lame term!  I get so tired of hearing overzealous people trying to minimize the value and persona of people by calling them that derogatory term.

First, I am from Idaho, and if you know much about Idaho, it is definitely Republican.  I would say I am more down the middle, not too conservative, not too liberal, but definitely more conservative than liberal. 

Calling people "Snowflakes" is not helping the situation, and it is certainly widening the divide between people.  We should really be trying to listen and understand where people are coming from, instead of minimizing who they are.

By the way, I wish that I did a better job with my language, and I have tried to improve.  It is definitely hard for me to control what I say, and I am not proud of some of the things I have said to Ryno coming home from a game, at a game, or at anytime. 

Frankly, it is not necessary to talk like that in order to get your point across, and I wish that I never did.  I don't think that makes me a "Snowflake", and you won't find one person who knows me who considers me such. 

I have always been a fighter, and most could consider me a pretty tough guy, but as I get older, I have come to understand that being "tough" doesn't mean cussing and verbal abuse to get your point across.

I agree with your point. Thank you. What you say makes total sense. My opinion has nothing to do with politics. I feel that this story perfectly illustrates how decent people are being overrun on occasion because a minority chooses to make noise. Management caves because it is the easiest thing to do.

By the way, just for the record. I do coach. Never use bad language in front of the players. Never demeaning or verbally abusive to the players, umpires. Never been kicked out of a game. I have had some good coaches who used some language. My all time favorite pitching coach majorly cussed me after a game in the locker room in front of the whole team (Rookie Ball MILB). After we got back to the hotel, I went & knocked on his door & asked him if he wanted to try to call me again what he called me in front of the team. This guy was a former pro bull rider. He loved me for this & it changed my career.