Though I said it was BS, some kids going to a winter camp said they were told by the fellow running the camp that he had to pay for coaches or scouts to come to the camp????????
Anyone able to shed some light here?
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Hmmm. I guess I've never really thought about this.
But at most camps my kids have been too...there are helpers. Some of these helpers are HS coaches, some are college kids, some are 'other' college coaches and maybe even a few are "scouts" (don't remember any of them specifically).
But I had always assumed that those "helpers" were paid for their time. Seems fair to me?
A lot of scouts/HS coaches/college coaches don't make a whole lot of money. Camps help them to deliver a nicer Christmas to their families. I see no issue with it...at least not from me.
But at most camps my kids have been too...there are helpers. Some of these helpers are HS coaches, some are college kids, some are 'other' college coaches and maybe even a few are "scouts" (don't remember any of them specifically).
But I had always assumed that those "helpers" were paid for their time. Seems fair to me?
A lot of scouts/HS coaches/college coaches don't make a whole lot of money. Camps help them to deliver a nicer Christmas to their families. I see no issue with it...at least not from me.
Not an issue at all. They are being paid for their knowledge and instructional ability as well as the use of their name. A camp can bring in a highly respected coach from somewhere else that only adds to the number of players interested in attending. Benefits the host college in several ways as well as allowing additional income for all coaches involved. Done all the time.
mrmom
It is part of running a solid operation !!!!
No BS at all !!!
It is part of running a solid operation !!!!
No BS at all !!!
I do beleive there is a college coach who posts here, or has posted and has worked the Clemson camp.
He didn't mention volunteering so I am assuming that worked meant he got paid.
My son worked summer camp and got paid, why wouldn't coaches or scouts get paid?
Now if he meant he had to pay them to hang around, that's a whole other issue!
He didn't mention volunteering so I am assuming that worked meant he got paid.
My son worked summer camp and got paid, why wouldn't coaches or scouts get paid?
Now if he meant he had to pay them to hang around, that's a whole other issue!
College Coaches and many scouts are not paid a lot, for them to pick up additional income at a camp is a way of supplementing their income.
This goes along the fact that colleges put on camps at their school, to supplement the income of their assistant coaches.
This goes along the fact that colleges put on camps at their school, to supplement the income of their assistant coaches.
Likley meant they paid the staff to work the winter camp, which could be MLB scouts or college coaches.
My apologies, I'm not talking about personnel working the camp! I'm talking about coaches and scouts just their to allegedly observe the talent!
I realize anyone working the camp gets paid, I'm curious about those their to "scout!"
I realize anyone working the camp gets paid, I'm curious about those their to "scout!"
mrmom - This is strictly a guess, but I suspect that different camps actually utilize their paid coaches to different degrees.... some very hands on while others really don't instruct but are used as a draw. On paper, both are paid participants. I think this is how many DI schools get around having other DI coaches at their Christmas camps, etc while it is quiet (or is it dead) period. 
My son has been to some great winter camps, and I have never noticed scouts, or coaches there just observing. They were all instructing, and hopefully getting paid. I HAVE heard of scouts & coaches being enticed to showcases however.
College coaches are not allowed to leave campus during the NCAA quiet period for the purpose of scouting or recruiting. In order to get these coaches out, they have to be paid to be performing a teaching service such as a camp. That is why, during the NCAA quiet period, coaches that are paid will be there but other NCAA coaches cannot just sit in and scout the workouts.
NCAA coaches can conduct camps on their own campuses however during the quiet period.
The reason that JC and NAIA coaches can be in attendance at camps without being instructors is that they aren't subject to the NCAA quiet period.
NCAA coaches can conduct camps on their own campuses however during the quiet period.
The reason that JC and NAIA coaches can be in attendance at camps without being instructors is that they aren't subject to the NCAA quiet period.
quote:NCAA coaches can conduct camps on their own campuses however during the quiet period.
I'm not sure that is true. My son had an unofficial visit at UNLV doring the quiet period while he was at a basletball tournament. The coaches could not talk about BB or evaluate him. The coordinator showed him around the school including the BB facilities but he could not throw for them . He left them a DVD and they gave him a BB program but that was it. I understood that they had to wait to contact him until the quiet period and the ensuing Dead period was over.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:quote:NCAA coaches can conduct camps on their own campuses however during the quiet period.
I'm not sure that is true. My son had an unofficial visit at UNLV doring the quiet period while he was at a basletball tournament. The coaches could not talk about BB or evaluate him. The coordinator showed him around the school including the BB facilities but he could not throw for them . He left them a DVD and they gave him a BB program but that was it. I understood that they had to wait to contact him until the quiet period and the ensuing Dead period was over.
D1 NCAA schools can not have camps on campus during dead period, but can have camps during quiet period. They can not have evaluation contact off campus.
There are contact regulations while during a tournament, that may be the kicker...even if it is "basletball"....but you normally can have any contact you want on campus during quiet period.
You may visit during the quiet period, and talk all you want, they cannot visit off campus.
If the dead period falls within that quiet period they cannot talk to you at all, it is in violation and they will get hit with a minor infraction.
As far as I know, I may be wrong, one cannot tryout on a D1 campus in front of a coach.
That's why they have camps.
If the dead period falls within that quiet period they cannot talk to you at all, it is in violation and they will get hit with a minor infraction.
As far as I know, I may be wrong, one cannot tryout on a D1 campus in front of a coach.
That's why they have camps.
Thanks to all,
I suppose based on what I've read it may be likely that he is paying for their travel costs and hotels if applicable, even if they aren't actively instructing.
I suppose based on what I've read it may be likely that he is paying for their travel costs and hotels if applicable, even if they aren't actively instructing.
mrmom
I do not believe that can happen---they have to actively be involved
I do not believe that can happen---they have to actively be involved
My son was not allowed to throw in front of any BB staff during the quiet period whichw was just before Xmas that year. He took his gear just in case but they said they could not evaluate players until after the dead period which followed thye quiet period. They were allowed to talk to him and did show him around campus. All the coaches were there and talked to him. It was our understanding that they had to treat him as if he was any other student. No perks etc.
Bobbleheaddad,
Not understanding your two posts about the visit.
Regardless, and as I said I might be wrong, as far as my understanding, recruit cannot try out for a D1 school, during any period, dead, alive or quiet.
The reason I remember this, when son went on official visit, I asked him if he threw and he said they told him he was not allowed. I have never seen it on the official rules, but this was my underdtanding.
Not understanding your two posts about the visit.
Regardless, and as I said I might be wrong, as far as my understanding, recruit cannot try out for a D1 school, during any period, dead, alive or quiet.
The reason I remember this, when son went on official visit, I asked him if he threw and he said they told him he was not allowed. I have never seen it on the official rules, but this was my underdtanding.
TPM we agree.
As a college coach, I was compensated very well for attending a showcase. Airfare, hotel, meals, and a stipend. I had to do a small amount of individual instruction and also help coach a team of the participants. It was very worthwhile for everyone involved, though I don't think that this particular showcase is around anymore.....
We will be going to a pitching clinic at a D1 school in January. There will be other coaches from other schools there as well. What can and can't the coaches talk to my son about? He is a 2010 and this will be his 3rd year to attend. He did received a general letter and questionnaire from the school last week. He sent it back saying that he is looking forward to meeting the coaching staff and speaking to them. Any help would be great.
The only way that a high school aged student-athlete can do anything baseball related during the quiet periods (one of which is this time of year)is to attend a college camp that college coaches work at. It is customary and accepted that college coaches are compensated to work at the camps, and the only way they can see players during this period.
Most coaches get airfare, lodging and a small stipend for working at the camps. The compensation usually isn't that significant, but it does give them a legitimate and accepted opportunity to scout prospective players for their programs.
Most coaches get airfare, lodging and a small stipend for working at the camps. The compensation usually isn't that significant, but it does give them a legitimate and accepted opportunity to scout prospective players for their programs.
So they can't talk specifics then? Would it be appropriate to ask if he is on their watch list or if how interested they are in him?
Well, one way to get fairly immediate feedback would be for your son to call the coach. The prohibition is against a face-to-face encounter (See the D1 Manual 13.02.3 13.02.4). But as long as they can't see each other, phone contact, say room to room at a hotel, or by cell phone, should be permissible.
But your son has to initiate every call. I imagine that he could find out the coach's cell or room number by asking somebody else at the camp.
He wouldn't get the benefit of seeing body language and facial expression, but at least the day's activities should be fresh in everybody's mind.
But your son has to initiate every call. I imagine that he could find out the coach's cell or room number by asking somebody else at the camp.
He wouldn't get the benefit of seeing body language and facial expression, but at least the day's activities should be fresh in everybody's mind.
3FG,
I was under the impression that during the quiet period there are no restrictions while on campus.
I was under the impression that during the quiet period there are no restrictions while on campus.
The player can talk to the coach who's campus he is at but should not talk about recruiting with another coach who is off his campus. He can contact the coach before the actual camp and let him know that he will be attending and to look out for him and contact him after the session.
quote:I'm not sure that is true. My son had an unofficial visit at UNLV doring the quiet period while he was at a basletball tournament. The coaches could not talk about BB or evaluate him. The coordinator showed him around the school including the BB facilities but he could not throw for them
That would be a private workout....which is a no no in D1. Schools can certainly hold camps during quiet period.
quote:My apologies, I'm not talking about personnel working the camp! I'm talking about coaches and scouts just their to allegedly observe the talent!
I realize anyone working the camp gets paid, I'm curious about those their to "scout!"
This practice is all the rage right now, and, like you, I have a problem with it.
I have no issue with college coaches working camps.
What I take issue with are these "Showcase" groups holding "Showcase Camps" and advertising that specific schools will be in attendance. The implication is that these coaches are attending to evaluate players, when in reality they are there for the payday.
One well known group here in the west is paying coaches $1000 to attend, putting them up in a swanky resort property, and paying travel costs. They require the coaches to do only one 30 minute instructional session for their time.
The problem is that the brochure says nothing about this, and the fact is that your $700 payment goes in large part to these coaches who become nothing more than advertising. I don't blame the coaches however....we'd all do the same thing.
As far as the company goes, this practice is, at best, a tad misleading.
I don't see anything wrong with college coaches working camps if they actually work the camps. If the families go into a camp with their eyes open with the proper expectation, you are going to get instruction and learn from college coaches and being seen is a side benefit.
One of the best camps we went to was a camp that was held in Mesa, AZ by the Anahiem Angles which had Joe Maddon (Angels bench coach at that point, current Rays manager) as the head director, it had college coaches and pro scouts running the week long camp as they would run a minor league camp as well as giving informative talks as to what it takes to get into college and what life was in professional baseball.
One of the best camps we went to was a camp that was held in Mesa, AZ by the Anahiem Angles which had Joe Maddon (Angels bench coach at that point, current Rays manager) as the head director, it had college coaches and pro scouts running the week long camp as they would run a minor league camp as well as giving informative talks as to what it takes to get into college and what life was in professional baseball.
Latest question, son is starting to get more inquires from schools. Just got invite to big D1 baseball camp. It asked him to do two things, fill out questionnaire and sign up for camp. Came from head coach. Camp is only a week away, I do know assistant coach had seen son in person. No big deal in filling out questionnaire but as you all know his SAT and GPA are below this schools standards. Why do the camp if school cannot accept you? What would you do, skip camp?
Your son's SAT and GPA may be below the school's average, but are the scores below the school's minimum requirements? There's a big difference. The recruiting coordinator of one Top 40 program said the average SAT of incoming freshmen was around 1150 or 1200, but the average among baseball players was about 1000, with some players scoring as low as 900. It would behoove you to contact this head coach (or the recruiting coordinator) via email or phone, espress your son's interest in their program, and ask if they believe your son could get admitted with his GPA and test scores. You'll never know until you ask.
One caveat: if your son cannot get a D1 qualification from the NCAA, the question is moot. If he does not have the necessary scores to get certified, he won't be able to play D1 ball no matter which D1 schools admit him.
One caveat: if your son cannot get a D1 qualification from the NCAA, the question is moot. If he does not have the necessary scores to get certified, he won't be able to play D1 ball no matter which D1 schools admit him.
quote:if your son cannot get a D1 qualification from the NCAA, the question is moot. If he does not have the necessary scores to get certified, he won't be able to play D1 ball no matter which D1 schools admit him.
Sorry for the dumb question - but there must be a website with these requirements listed...can you tell me where to find it?
quote:quote:
if your son cannot get a D1 qualification from the NCAA, the question is moot. If he does not have the necessary scores to get certified, he won't be able to play D1 ball no matter which D1 schools admit him.
Sorry for the dumb question - but there must be a website with these requirements listed...can you tell me where to find it?
Click on the following link and carefully read pages 4-8:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008-09%20C...8a9-6456c9b98957.pdf
NCAA Initial Qualification Standards
One thing you should understand about ACT tests and scores is that the number they give is the cumulitive scores for all the sections of the test (there are 4 sections). In order to achieve that score, the NCAA allows you to cherry pick the best sections from different tests and add those. i.e. you could take your science score from the first test you took, add it with the English score from the second test, the math score from the first test, etc.
One thing you should understand about ACT tests and scores is that the number they give is the cumulitive scores for all the sections of the test (there are 4 sections). In order to achieve that score, the NCAA allows you to cherry pick the best sections from different tests and add those. i.e. you could take your science score from the first test you took, add it with the English score from the second test, the math score from the first test, etc.
Pop Up Hitter Dad,
Because camps are instructional and he should get some good feedback. Improvement is on-going.
If your son is interested in this school, the coach's will be looking as well.
Not always, but your son might perk the coach's interest and that could get/keep him on their watch list.
If your son goes JUCO ( as I believe you have mentioned he might in other posts ) this could help down the road when he is looking for a 4 year to attend and play for.
The more your son knows about a school, and vice versa, the better.
quote:Why do the camp if school cannot accept you?
Because camps are instructional and he should get some good feedback. Improvement is on-going.
If your son is interested in this school, the coach's will be looking as well.
Not always, but your son might perk the coach's interest and that could get/keep him on their watch list.
If your son goes JUCO ( as I believe you have mentioned he might in other posts ) this could help down the road when he is looking for a 4 year to attend and play for.
The more your son knows about a school, and vice versa, the better.
SSmom
You are jesting I hope---
Answer me this:---if you cannot get into the school academically why spend the money at their camp--why not spend the money at a camp at a school where the player can gain admission
Truly, and no insult meant here, you sometimes,a ctually most times, amaze me with your responses
You are jesting I hope---
Answer me this:---if you cannot get into the school academically why spend the money at their camp--why not spend the money at a camp at a school where the player can gain admission
Truly, and no insult meant here, you sometimes,a ctually most times, amaze me with your responses
The two links above are the easiest to read, and cover most situations. However, if a player appears to not be a D1 or D2 qualifier, then it may be worthwhile to look at the Division manuals. Article 14.3 covers students with learning disabilities, non-traditional courses, pass-fail courses, multiple high schools, ESL, etc.
TRhit
Truly, and no insult meant here, you sometimes,a ctually most times, amaze me with your responses
You are jesting I hope---
FormerObserver
Truly, and no insult meant here, you sometimes,a ctually most times, amaze me with your responses
You are jesting I hope---
FormerObserver
I also agree with SSMom, there is something to be said about getting instruction from various college coaches and creating a pipeline for the future.
How many go to the Stanford camp expecting to attend Stanford, in fact, how many actually attend a college camp ever actually go to that college? I am sure there are a few but the vast majority don't.
How many go to the Stanford camp expecting to attend Stanford, in fact, how many actually attend a college camp ever actually go to that college? I am sure there are a few but the vast majority don't.
I'll side with TR on this one.
If I'm advising the poster here, I'd probably suggest another camp opportunity, one that is more appropriate to his academic level.
By the same token, if I'm considering the camp I'd want to make sure I could afford the school. If its a high level academic school, it may also carry a high tuition. If the school costs $50K annually can you afford that? Can you afford 50% of that?
If not you may be barking up the wrong tree.
If I'm advising the poster here, I'd probably suggest another camp opportunity, one that is more appropriate to his academic level.
By the same token, if I'm considering the camp I'd want to make sure I could afford the school. If its a high level academic school, it may also carry a high tuition. If the school costs $50K annually can you afford that? Can you afford 50% of that?
If not you may be barking up the wrong tree.