Pete Rose

I was born in 1973 and have followed baseball with great intent.  I loved his game and always liked it when he was on my favorite show, "The Baseball Bunch".  I have always taught my boys how to play like him and would seek out coaches who shared the same style.  He seemed to have gotten screwed IMO, as there are FAR worse things players have done.  Kids these days don't know a lot about him because he was erased.  It is a shame. May his memory be eternal. 

I feel like his accomplishments need to be recognized at the hall of fame. I agree a lot of people have done worse things (that probably no one imagined in the 70s or 80s), but it would be silly not to have some recognition of the things he did well, while also noting where he screwed up. I don't know if he's IN the hall of fame, but at least noted AT the hall of fame. And at least now, he wouldn't personally benefit from it, so maybe that makes it more palatable?

Pete was "the man" back in the 70's.  The Reds were loaded with talent and he was the guy that made them go.   That guy gave more than 100% on the field, and I think he deserves some respect for that.   KInd of along the same lines as @Iowamom23, I think there needs to be some recognition for his accomplishments because there were  many in his era.  He was among the best of his era and of all time.  No doubt.

There are many rumors about what he did off the field, and it goes way beyond gambling.   I don't know anything about that, and I've not seen facts presented about those crimes.  With his passing, maybe we'll learn more.  Maybe I'll change my opinion of the man, but the baseball player was (again) among the best of all time.

JMO.

Another Parent;

Did you read this book? https://red.fans/quad/threads/...-book-review.274439/

Class D baseball was the lowest level and when Pete reported his 1st words. "where do I hit in the line-up"? The Manager asked "who are you" I am Pete Rose you 2b. The Manager looked at the "scouting report" It marked "NP".

Karolyn the 1st Mrs Rose, Pete Jr and I met in a 16 year old tournament in Wisconsin. After the tournament, we discuss a barnstorming team with her "Rolls" and our rental van traveling West to California.

Bob

  I am a bit of a contrarian when it comes to Pete Rose. I thought a lot of his hustle was false. He dove when it wasn’t necessary, he slid when he didn’t have to, he collided with opponents when it could have been avoided. And he was arrogant. I was never a fan.
  But there is no denying what he accomplished. And it should be recognized. I agree with all the others posts that support recognition. IMO he should be in the HOF. Especially with all the hypocrisy that currently surrounds betting on sports.

Carl Yastrzemski and Pete Rose were my heroes as a kid. It was because they practiced hard, played hard and practiced even more to get even better. Regardless of talent no one outworked them. As I got older I discovered both has questionable personalities. But it wasn’t about baseball.

Last night Steve Garvey said Rose was fun to watch even playing against him. He added with the way gambling has infiltrated the sports world ** it’s a bit hypocritical to keep Rose out of the Hall of Fame.

Had Rose been a little less in your face with Giamatti and Vincent I believe he would be in the Hall.

** I was in South Station (Amtrak Boston) a few hours ago. Given the wall advertising I thought it had been renamed the Draft Kings South Station.

The ESPN announcers are advertising the ESPN betting app during the playoff game.  I am disgusted.  Something I read about Rose, that gambling is an addiction.  Well, I guess they advertise other addictive substances too.

I'll have to read his book, I guess, @Consultant.  I'm not sure I'll like him any better, though.

I never really cared for him. As both athlete and person.

Bottom line for me, he bet on his team when he was the manager. That was bad.

Maybe, he might be inducted some day. They just didn't want to do it while he was alive.

JMO

Thomas Boswell in the Washington Post (behind a firewall, but the link is here), in an excellent article, made an excellent point:

One aspect of Pete and the Hall has changed in recent years. The more baseball crawls into bed with legalized sports gambling and the more that players get tainted with the issue, the clearer the rationale for letting the Rose ban remain permanent as a warning. . . . Baseball has many rules. But only one of them is The Rule. It’s above the entrance to every clubhouse. If you bet on the game, you’re gone.

Are we not going to bring up that in the 1980's he had an inappropriate relationship with a 16 year old girl that he met when she was 14? He told the police he knew she was 16 because he knew that was the age of consent in the state.  Then few years ago he told a female reporter who asked about it "babe that was (however long ago) years ago".

There is no question he was one of the greatest players to ever step foot on a baseball field.  He is also one of the most disgusting as well.  Honestly, I don't care that he bet on his teams because if I remember correctly he always bet on his teams to win.  But his arrogance, attitude and disgusting behavior is what kept him out of the HOF.  If he admitted and apologized for the betting he would be in now.  It is 100% his fault he's not in it already.

I do believe he will get in in a few years because you can't have the all time leader in hits not in the HOF.  But waiting until he was dead so he could never enjoy it seems appropriate.

In todays Baseball Notes a local write summed of the Pete Rose sage perfectly …

Johnny Bench said baseball gave Rose more opportunities to redeem himself and come clean than the public is aware. He violated the guidelines within a month every time.

The writer concluded if Pete Rose didn’t care about being in the Hall of Fame why should we?

I'll admit this is me thinking as I am typing this, dangerous I know, but think about 100 years from now when we are all gone....what is the purpose of the baseball hall of fame? Is it to document the history of all of baseball greats or only a portion of them? Should there be a "hall of shame" (pardon the pun) section of the HOF that has great baseball players who may have been extraordinary on the field but personally flawed?  Rose, Bonds, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Sammy, others?

Think about 100 years from now, do we not want to acknowledge the greatness of Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Sammy, and others?  think there should be a section of the Hall that has great players but also acknowledge their human flaws?

Don't have the answer but something to think about....

@BOF posted:

I'll admit this is me thinking as I am typing this, dangerous I know, but think about 100 years from now when we are all gone....what is the purpose of the baseball hall of fame? Is it to document the history of all of baseball greats or only a portion of them? Should there be a "hall of shame" (pardon the pun) section of the HOF that has great baseball players who may have been extraordinary on the field but personally flawed?  Rose, Bonds, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Sammy, others?

Think about 100 years from now, do we not want to acknowledge the greatness of Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Sammy, and others?  think there should be a section of the Hall that has great players but also acknowledge their human flaws?

Don't have the answer but something to think about....

What makes this difficult is part of the criteria to be elected to the HOF is the character clause that voters have to consider when voting.  Its kinda hard to streamline this because not everyone has the same morels and values as a player and voter. Rose was easy because he was on the ineligible list so he was ineligible for the HOF.  I'm assuming he's no longer ineligible since he's no longer alive. I agree it's hard to keep the greats out because no matter what results should still be the factor that weighs the most.  But I'm also OK with keeping guys out until they have died if they are lacking in the character department.  That seems to be a fair trade off.