I feel like grade inflation is happening with the PG grade (not to be confused with PG rankings). I look at older player profiles on PG that are now Pro players. They have measurables and the "grade" they received. Then I look at grades that current players are receiving and their measurables. Might be just me, but it certainly seems like they are giving a lot more 7-9 scores these days as compared to the past.
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My son is turning thirty this month. He did 17u PG events thirteen, fourteen years ago. I looked at his scores and many players I knew. While they were all very talented players (his entire 17u team class received P5 offers) I thought the scores were generous.
It deluded several of his teammates to continue showcasing for MLB scouts and the draft when they should have been focusing on getting physically ready for college ball.
PG needs to grade base on age not class graduation year.
(that’s just a side thought when it comes to PG)
@RJM posted:My son is turning thirty this month. He did 17u PG events thirteen, fourteen years ago. I looked at his scores and many players I knew. While they were all very talented players (his entire 17u team class received P5 offers) I thought the scores were generous.
It deluded several of his teammates to continue showcasing for MLB scouts and the draft when they should have been focusing on getting physically ready for college ball.
I’m going to piggyback onto this post if you don’t mind. What caught my attention was the mention of PG scores deluding players I happen to believe this is a huge issue and a widespread problem. The first thing you need to understand is that the PG people that are determining scores (and rankings) are not baseball people. They are employees pretending to be baseball people. Most of them are basically baseball fans. Point being that they aren’t qualified, from a baseball standpoint, to evaluate talent. The second thing to consider is that PG is about turning a profit. They are not the benevolent “we just want to help kids” organization that they portray themselves to be. So they are not above artificially inflating scores and rankings to pad the bottom line. The third thing to consider is the impact of the social media blitz that PG executes for those that pay their fees. Kids love to see their names and videos posted on Twitter. And the more of it they see the more it inflates their egos. That’s only human nature. But when you add all this up the compound effect is that it deludes A LOT of HS players (and parents) into thinking they are better than they are. Which leads to fishing in the wrong pond. Which leads to bad decisions and disappointment. IMO PG is bad for the game. The problems they cause outweigh the good that they do. This may not be a popular opinion but nobody is gonna change my mind on this one.
@NY posted:PG needs to grade base on age not class graduation year.
(that’s just a side thought when it comes to PG)
Why would you not go off grade? No one cares what age you are. It is what year will you graduate. That is how everything in recruiting is done.
@PitchingFan posted:Why would you not go off grade? No one cares what age you are. It is what year will you graduate. That is how everything in recruiting is done.
Your son is in a different boat than most, so take a minute, and think from a different perspective. You are right, but a lot of players have underlying issues with held back talent. I understand it all equals out in the end, but there are kids that unfairly funnel out before they are given a true chance to fully develop.
I get that but it still goes off grade because that is the recruiting status. If a 19 year old is only a junior he is still a junior for recruiting or if a 15 year old is a junior he is still a junior. The grades are done for college recruiting, and the college recruiter normally could not care how old your son is, but what grade they are in or really what year they will graduate.
I agree that it should be recruiting grade. One can see a player's age on their profile if they care that much about that. I'm more and more convinced the grades are inflated to keep parents thinking they need to continue to spend more money on their child who is a "potential college prospect". I've seen some 8.5's "potential draft pick" with numbers I wouldn't consider draft worthy (7+ second 60, sub 90 EV, etc). But...hey one can't say it's out of the realm of possibility right?
I thought PG grade was on future potential?
It is TPM and you and I know that all above average HS players can play in college. Maybe not D1 and maybe not start but can be on a college team which is what PG is saying. Plus, spending money makes PG happy too.
Adbono;
During the 17 years that I developed the Area Code games, I resisted rating or grading players.
TWO REASONS; The pro scouts did not desire to submit their evaluations and since I did not charge the players, It was personal decision.
The player knows himself and his 6th tool cannot be graded in a 6 day tournament. Area Code was like a theater play, the players the actors, the stage was the playing field, in the audience the pro scouts and college coaches and parents. Proof of a successful show was the yearly $35 million in signing bonus.
Bob
My son’s ranking went up after he committed to the school he is at…
This is an old, old discussion. The founder of PG used to post on this site as PGSTAFF, he would explain things (not necessarily to everyone's satisfaction). A random sampling taken every 5 years, but it came up every year, multiple times.
2005: https://community.hsbaseballwe...t-game-rating-system
@3and2Fastball posted:My son’s ranking went up after he committed to the school he is at…
For both PG and PBR my son went from having no ranking to being ranked once his commitment was listed.
It's obvious that, below the top 1000 (or maybe the "top 1000" which is many more than 1000 players), they use an algorithm to assign those rankings, and one of their factors is college commitment. D3 players are mostly "Follow" or "High Follow". Very few P5 players are below "Top 500". Etc.
But PG's argument was that those rankings are primarily created for the draft.
However, OP is talking about grades based on showcases, not rankings.
@anotherparent posted:This is an old, old discussion. The founder of PG used to post on this site as PGSTAFF, he would explain things (not necessarily to everyone's satisfaction). A random sampling taken every 5 years, but it came up every year, multiple times.
2005: https://community.hsbaseballwe...t-game-rating-system
Jerry Ford was selling a bill of goods back then and it’s only gotten worse since he sold out. The PG apologists on this site have always amazed me.
Never understood the PG hate. It is a business, it exists to make money - I've never really heard of it being done as a charity project. I think the idea that you have to do their events to be recruited is something the general baseball community says more than they advertise themselves.
I think they put a pretty good product out - their tournaments have been full of competitive baseball with the best teams in the country. Played against three (likely four) #1 overall picks at their events over the years.
Showcases are stupid expensive I would have never considered one. But for what I've paid for - I always felt it was worth it (cost being relative of course). Are the numbers inflated? Of course. Would I ever recommend anybody ever does one of their showcases that is not PG National or AA - of course not.
When you look at it for what it is - a money maker - then you pick and choose what you do, you end up much less disappointed. It's like anything you buy - be an informed consumer and you won't feel sandbagged at the end.
I don’t have anything against PG. My son enjoyed the tournaments. He was “discovered” (actually promoted by his travel coach and performed well) at two regional events before the PG events. What PG events gave him was the knowledge he belonged on the field with anyone. It didn’t mean he was better or equal than the best. But he could complete with them.
PG took over our area a few years ago by pushing out USSSA through a director defecting. I think both do/did a great job of providing a ton of tournaments each year.
i agree with the ‘inflated’ grade in PG. I’m not sure what they can do since it is a projection for younger players but it seems absurd that a 13 yr old can get a grade of 8+ based on projection and there is never an update unless he showcases again. But why would you? Probably just need to add the year they received the PG grade next to the number. Probably would be a good business decision since those that want to show off a grade would probably do more showcases over the years to keep their grade current.
I enjoyed PG and so did my son, he liked that his measurables were documented and I liked watching him play. Never considered paying for rating; I couldn’t imagine it would be unbiased, but that was just my opinion. I will say that every coach I spoke with when I was looking for a place for him to play after HS, looked at his PG measurables.
I feel the same positive way about Perfect Game as many others do.
It wasn't as complicated as it is now but I am not sure if son would have gotten the opportunity he did if not for the one showcase he attended.
That was the best decision that we ever made.
We knew what we buying with PG. We enjoyed the AA and the National. Cool to see your kid in a major league stadium on the big screen and to be playing against a lot of 1st and 2nd rounders. No regrets.
As someone who has not invested in PG, but will this summer (due to son's travel team competing in the WWBA) I find PG and PBR to be organizations that coaches do trust when it comes to measurables. It is interesting how they only grade those that attend a PG Showcase. The ranking is something I also find useful, but most certainly with caution. I know initially my son was disappointed that he wasn't ranked, but then he realized the majority of those ranked had attended a PG event or were already "known" talented ball players. I doubt PG will even get an EV of my OF son while he's at the WWBA, but it would be nice because I'm not sure coaches trust his EV (we've gotten measurements from Hittrax, Pocket Radar, and Rapsodo) since it's self reported. We've seen firsthand of a player promoting his 101EV, yet his recent attendance at a PG Showcase had him at 77EV. I know if I were a coach I'd trust the PG number instead of the self reported number.
The unfortunate downside to PG is the expense. Probably why others invest in PBR. My son has also not participated in any PBR event. I'm at a point now that I'm thinking I might have to breakdown and pay into one of these monopoly organizations just so my son can have a trusted 3rd party verification of his measureables. Too bad dishonest self promoting and even dishonest promoting by others has fueled the need for PG and PBR to get away with charging so much.
PG is a business like any other. They take care of the kids that pay their showcase fees. Granted, it is pretty comical to look at the rankings for a certain state and they have a kid in the top 5 who sitting on absolutely ZERO offers from any division.
I am a fan of PG from our perspective, which is different than many. We only paid twice to play in PG events. It goes back to supply and demand. I had 2 LHP's that teams wanted to play for them. We used the find a team/player aspect of PG for many events. That I found out about on this site 17 year ago. Middle son played in a ton of PG events and never went to a showcase. Got offers from half of SEC and half of ACC but chose to go to a mid-major. Youngest son played in every PG WWBA event that is offered and actually did 14U through 18U in one summer. He played as a guest in all 5 events that summer and got a ton of attention. The only cost for playing in them for us was a small fee to one team to buy jersey and cap. He helped the teams he was playing with and so both got what they wanted. In the 18U, his brother was coaching the team, and he pitched 1 no hit inning in relief against the team that would win it and actually struck out a #1 pick that summer. He pitched 6 innings of 1 hit shutout against the team that won 17U and got a ton of attention for himself but also a team from New Jersey that he had never met. They had 3 guys get offers that night because he drew so much attention being 14 and shutting out the powerhouse and hitting a 2 run homer. They lost because he pulled son in the 7th for his ace who got shelled. I could not tell a single player on that team or the coach's name but it was a good night for son and his temporary team. He finished third one year with his local team that he grew up playing with and might have won but ran out of pitching. 11/13 players pitched that week. You can't win with only 13 players. I say all this to say that PG was very good to our family. It is expensive for the teams and I would say half the teams that are there should not be at PG big events but it is their money to spend. Was it worth it for the team from New Jersey? Absolutely for the 3 that got major offers that night. Is it worth it for the players who go on teams that have no shot? I can't answer that but I've seen guys have incredible appearances against great teams and jump on the scene. Like anything else in life, you don't know what you are getting until the journey is over.
As I shared in other threads, my son got "discovered" by the school he committed to in a national PG tournament last fall in Jupiter.
To me, there is value that PG brings.
Where PG is not a good value:
Re scores under seven. Anyone scoring seven or under shouldn’t be there. But, a player can request their score not be public.
@atlnon thanks for the tip about PG WWBA workouts being cheaper. That's a much more palatable price considering all I'd be interested in is PG verified measurables for him to have in his profile. Would participation in this one provide an individual with a "grade"?
@Momball11 posted:@atlnon thanks for the tip about PG WWBA workouts being cheaper. That's a much more palatable price considering all I'd be interested in is PG verified measurables for him to have in his profile. Would participation in this one provide an individual with a "grade"?
Yes, they do. You can see the description for the next event. https://www.perfectgame.org/Ev...ult.aspx?event=72000
As a clarification, per the WWBA workouts event description, they don't evaluate pitchers. So it's prob not an option to update pitching metrics. In reviewing my emails, my son got the discounted offer for a normal showcase (full showcase with scrimmage) for 50% off bec they need catchers. He also got an invite for one of the WWBA workouts for free several weeks after that. I'm not sure if it's bec he attended a showcase or not (that showcase where he got 50% off).
Actually, the way it worked out is that I reached out to PG to clarify if I would get the same metrics in a WWBA workout that I would get for a showcase. PG guy said yes, except you have the additional scrimmages. Several days later, the PG guy reached out with the 50% discount and said that this will actually make the showcase cheaper than the WWBA workout so we did that. Then several weeks after the showcase, he got another email saying "We enjoyed seeing your kid in the XXX showcase. We would like to extend a special offer for your son to attend any of the WWBA workout bet X date and X date for free so that he can update his metrics."
