PG Scoring and Rankings

quote:

Originally posted by That's Baseball:
I know there is someone on here that can help me with this. I have continually looked over PG's ratings of players and I still do not understand the method behind their scoring. I have seen players that have very similiar workout times, speed and velocities. And have watched their videos and the fundamentals are very close, however one player will be rated a 7.5 or 8, where the other player is rated a 9.5 or 10. The only difference I see between the players sometimes is the size. Is size a major consideration for the PG ratings.

That's a good question, perhaps PG would be best at giving an answer, but I will bet there is a difference in what a scout sees in a player vs. what a parent sees.

Interesting point made about size, I think my son received high grades based on his skill and his size as I did notice that some (back then) were not rated as high (and were smaller).
However, in the end I really think that the players make up and determination is what determines a lot and that can't be measured in an evaluation.

My opinion is not to read too much into the ratings and rankings, those that use it as a learning tool usually end up way passed HS ball.

JMO.

Check out page 4 i think PG explains it pretty well here.

Bear in mind that although to a potentially untrained eye (which includes mine even after 16 years of watching) players may seem to move to a ball similarly, or transfer and demonstrate a strong arm, there are finer issues of footwork that are in play. Combine that with 60 times, and the way a ball comes off a bat all combine to seperate the 7's from the 10's.

Size will always be a factor, and will always be given a benefit if they prove they can play. Remember these grades are projections, not just a point in time.

Ranking and skill assessment can change, not to mention a players performance. My son choked his first PG event. I actually think that his coach at the time who was known as a loudmouth that few liked, impacted the way his assessment was conducted. In hindsight, can't say as I blame anyone at all. But during the fielding the batter hit rockets right at my guys feet, which he failed to field well. As the years went by I never saw a player subjected to ground balls like that again at PG evaluations! My son's coach (manager) was a piece of work that few liked and everyone knew, however he always recruited well. Anyway, my guy was graded a 7.5 after that outing. A year later he was a 9.

Yes, I have to agree with this:

quote:

I will bet there is a difference in what a scout sees in a player vs. what a parent sees.

Keep in mind that Perfect Game scouts not only watch TENS OF THOUSANDS of top players throughout the year, most of the scouts have been at it for many years. So they have seen the players progress from 16-yr-old thru the college and professional levels.

They are professional scouts and know what to look for. They can evaluate not just how good a player is today, but how much potential he has for higher levels. (Though as PGStaff will say, they cannot always predict how hard the player will work to fulfill or even exceed that potential.)

Julie

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
Yes, I have to agree with this:

quote:

I will bet there is a difference in what a scout sees in a player vs. what a parent sees.

Keep in mind that Perfect Game scouts not only watch TENS OF THOUSANDS of top players throughout the year, most of the scouts have been at it for many years. So they have seen the players progress from 16-yr-old thru the college and professional levels.

They are professional scouts and know what to look for. They can evaluate not just how good a player is today, but how much potential he has for higher levels. (Though as PGStaff will say, they cannot always predict how hard the player will work to fulfill or even exceed that potential.)

Julie

Good post Julie, PG definetly knows what they are doing, no one can take that away from them. And as far as the rating and ranking, those are just numbers, the player has to work very hard for the rewards, pure talent just doesn't always work for most.

TPM,
I couldn't agree more with you on using the videos and ranking as a learning tool. My son and his friends looked at their videos together and commented on each others performance. They went right out to the field and started working on what they needed to improve on. By the way, they don't even have their ratings yet and realize that each individual coach is going to be looking for different things in the players they like.

Lots of money for very little. Never met a coach in college who gives a rip about someone else's one day ranking. They need to see you, and they do not rely on perfect game to tell them who they should look at or not. They are called perfect scam for a reason. Play for the best summer program you can. All colleges in the area watch them closely. Put your summer coach to work for you it is a big part of his job. Why do you play for them and pay? To participate in a program that plays top level league and showcase tournaments so you can be seen. Your summer coach knows this and it is a big part of his job to get you into the next level if he can't do that upcoming studs will choose a different program that can. They are a pipeline to college coaches they have each other on speed dial. your summer coach is his grocery store.

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
Lots of money for very little. Never met a coach in college who gives a rip about someone else's one day ranking. They need to see you, and they do not rely on perfect game to tell them who they should look at or not. They are called perfect scam for a reason. Play for the best summer program you can. All colleges in the area watch them closely. Put your summer coach to work for you it is a big part of his job. Why do you play for them and pay? To participate in a program that plays top level league and showcase tournaments so you can be seen. Your summer coach knows this and it is a big part of his job to get you into the next level if he can't do that upcoming studs will choose a different program that can. They are a pipeline to college coaches they have each other on speed dial. your summer coach is his grocery store.

So what if you live in one part of the country and you want to play somewhere else? How does the coach help you in that regard? No one ever said that PG'as showcases should take teh place of being seen by scouts and coaches.

No one has to do anything they don't want to do. We live in a very visible area and we sent son to his first and only PG showcase (other than National) so he could get an idea of how he measured up to those in his graduationg class, since the programs recruiting him did so on a national level. The importance of it was what he learned about himself and how to improve. I do beleive that his rating led to an out of state recruiter taking time out to watch him in Jupiter, not sure if it had been for that he would have come to watch and gone to play for him.

No one ever said that a PG ranking or rating should take the place of playing in front of coaches and scouts.

I also think that it helps the player to focus in on a good fit but that is JMO.

TPM
Good point. PG is a tool that may yield benefit however the cost benefit analysis to me says their are better ways. If you want to play out of area showcase out of area. I think a call from a well respected summer program and coach to that school would do more than a name and ranking in a database of thousands. Your son just being in Juniper may have played the biggest role. I would absolutely love to hear what drew your sons coach to him initially. Was I Juniper itself, another coach who knew he was looking for what you son had or PG. We do all of these things to get noticed. HEY COACH WHAT DID IT! WE ALL WANT TO KNOW

quote:

They are called perfect scam for a reason.

Seattlestars16,

Actually, I've only heard that from one person. We banned his team and he still begs to get back in, but we won't allow it.

I can understand that PG is not for everyone. I can believe it might be too expensive for some people. And I already know that college coaches and scouts want to see players and I know we can't help every player be successful. However, please believe me... There is not any "scam" involved in any way! I hope you come to realize that some day.

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
TPM
Good point. PG is a tool that may yield benefit however the cost benefit analysis to me says their are better ways. If you want to play out of area showcase out of area. I think a call from a well respected summer program and coach to that school would do more than a name and ranking in a database of thousands. Your son just being in Juniper may have played the biggest role. I would absolutely love to hear what drew your sons coach to him initially. Was I Juniper itself, another coach who knew he was looking for what you son had or PG. We do all of these things to get noticed. HEY COACH WHAT DID IT! WE ALL WANT TO KNOW

Yes being in Jupiter played a big role, but my understanding that the coach made inquiries to PG before that time. Also, understand as a RHP junior he was just hitting magic 90.
My son played for coaches that had great contacts, one of them being that coach, they only attested to his make up as a player, the rest he did on the field, he didn't need to have a travel coach sell him to a college coach, one of the reasons being that his showcase experience helped him to understand what he needed to do to improve, even with a good rating and ranking. We used that showcase as a tool, not just as another notch on the fence, I think that LauraZA got my point.

And I am not a coach, I am a mom, and a supporter of PG, who supports us here on the HSBBW.

I do understand that the costs are much more than they were years ago. However, that is why I suggest that parents use their limited funds wisely and a PG showcase may be for some a good investment, even if it's just once.

BTW, it's JUPITER.

I see that you live in Seattle, good baseball up there and good contacts.
Now let's suppose your son wants to go play bb on the east coast, let's say he wants to go play at UNC. Are you telling me that he's going to go by your sons travel coach's word on his skills, a guy who you are paying to play) or he is going to look into the PG database (or any database) to see what he could come up with, from someone who has an unbiased opinion (if he is unable to see him play for himself).
Chances are that they may suggest that he comes to a camp, and that might cost a whole lot more than a PG showcase.

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
Lots of money for very little. Never met a coach in college who gives a rip about someone else's one day ranking. They need to see you, and they do not rely on perfect game to tell them who they should look at or not. They are called perfect scam for a reason. Play for the best summer program you can. All colleges in the area watch them closely. Put your summer coach to work for you it is a big part of his job. Why do you play for them and pay? To participate in a program that plays top level league and showcase tournaments so you can be seen. Your summer coach knows this and it is a big part of his job to get you into the next level if he can't do that upcoming studs will choose a different program that can. They are a pipeline to college coaches they have each other on speed dial. your summer coach is his grocery store.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is always disturbing when they make slanderous or negative comments with nothing to back it up.

My son attended several PG events in his senior year. We were amazed at all the scouts that attended the events, and the professionalism the PG staff exhibited. My son received a very good rating and received very good exposure. Yet the school that he eventually went to had not watched him at a PG event nor considered his rating when making an offer. A cynic would say that the time, money, and effort put into those PG events was wasted. An ignorant person might even claim that PG events were a scam. Yet I came out of it with just the opposite point of view. They are a professional organization that gives kids the opportunity to showcase their talent. Never is there a promise that attending one of their events will lead to stardom or a college scholarship even if your son performs well.

So while I normally do not call out people for their posts, I do take umbrage with those who cast aspersions that are not based in fact. I think you should retract your slanderous comment, and should apologize for it!
Failing that, you have no decency and should be persona non grata from this day forward.

Yes Jupiter (typo) sounds like your son benefitted from "all of the above" lots of good exposure decisions, work and talent. That does seem to be the most common route to success rather than one lucky shot or all gags in one basket. they are all tools rely on none alone. As for coaches listening to Sumer clubs that most of us pay my experience is that they will listen and follow up. They all know that a quality summer coach and program will not lie and over sell a kid. If they do they will lose their greatest asset TRUST and they will soon be finished. Who knows better PG after a day or summer coach who works with the kid every day and can speak to talent and character. Around here the college coaches will give him more weight than PG. This is the best site available for great information and advice. PG is a huge part of that. Make no mistake they do benefit monetarily from that. It's just good business and no problem with that

I wonder how many players on the University of Washington and Washington State rosters attended PG events in their high school careers...

I for one can attest to the benefit of PG. My son signed with a very good D1 baseball program in Texas because he attended a Pg Showcase in Houston, Texas. He was spotted by the recruiting coordinator at the event. The head coach called my son every week and invited him for a visit to the campus. The rating and film of his hitting and throwing sealed the deal. If I had to rely on his travel team coach and organization let alone his high school coach, I don't know where he would be. Yeah, I wish he could have been invited to the National Showcase but at the end of the day they got it right. To call them a scam is wrong. I have found Jerry Ford to be an above board man who I have the upmost respect. Maybe, you should focus your anger on your travel team organization and do an analysis on what percentage of players were signed. Please do not include those players who they list on their website without determining how long those players played with the organization. A fall session or summer session in which the player had already verballed before they joined the organization should not be included-my opinion only.

Mr. Crowell,
I have to agree with Vector, never is there any promise that one will get a scholarship offer or drafted, they just provide you with an opportunity to showcase your skills.

And yes, it is a business and they make money.

But that doesn't warrant the comment that was made here by you, "they are called perfect scam for a reason".

vector does not like my opinion of PG events and his/her opinion is different therefore I should apologize I have no decency and I should have no opinion of my own all because I brought up the well known fact many people refer to perfect game as perfect scam. Vector you have exposed yourself as a tyrant go away you'll have to get your much needed attention elsewhere

PGSTAFF-
I have read a great many of your posts and you are a wonderful resource and I'm glad your here. That term may be a regional thing I don't know but PG is not that big in the northwest. They tell you what they are selling you and give you what they promise. The value of what they sell you from the marketing people they employ makes it sound extremely valuable and important. It is up to each to decide if the wonderful marketing is as good as the real product. many benefit many that I have seen go maybe wasting their money. Free choice

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
vector does not like my opinion of PG events and his/her opinion is different therefore I should apologize I have no decency and I should have no opinion of my own all because I brought up the well known fact many people refer to perfect game as perfect scam. Vector you have exposed yourself as a tyrant go away you'll have to get your much needed attention elsewhere

A tyrant because I called you out for a slanderous and unfounded comment?

Look bud, I have no problem with you being critical of PG events if you feel they were not helpful to you or your son. I also would not have a problem with you saying they were too expensive, or some other such point of view. However when you refer to them as a "perfect scam" you are slandering their good name. If you had your own business and someone said the product or services you sold were nothing but a scam, how would you like it?

I have no problem with criticism or even personal grudges expressed in a public forum. I am typically the first to say that people should not be banned for expressing their legitimate point of view. However some things are beyond the pale, and even our freedom of expression has it's limits. Slander for instance being a perfect example of how someone is not allowed to impugn something or someone without proof, otherwise they can be hauled into court.


Maybe your problem is a lack of understanding what the word scam means. Here is the Merriam-Webster definition;


a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation


Do you have any proof that any PG event or their business model meets that definition? If so then post your evidence. If not then apologize for the improper characterization.


Another words put up or shut up!

My son received his best offers after the World Showcase and after a Jupiter event. We could not be happier with all the PG events my son participated in. I wish we could do it all over again, it was a great run!

quote:

They are called perfect scam for a reason.

haha... what a joke.

My son is looking forward to his first professional spring training this season.

I personally believe that success is a road paved by experience. My kid played for a great travel program because he was good, was a big factor in the success of his hs team's success...

He got his college committment on PG's ranking over the many events he attended... He got his professional chance based on his success in college, hs and travel ball... All backed up with verifiable stats, facts and evaluations by PG.

We are big fans of PG. My kid is an amazing player. So is everyone else.

How do you stand out?

By participating and competing against the best with and against the best players in the nation. Doing well. Making youself stand out in a crowd. Being picked because you have a verifiable resume.

Perfect Scam? NO.

It is a perfect opportunity to show who you are to a whole lot of baseball important people. We always pointed people to the PG website to verify what we said in the cover letter....

My kid was not a 10!, he is an iron horse and we used PG to rise him above the crowd.

Too many great players go unfound. GO GET FOUND!

quote:

Originally posted by playfair:

quote:

They are called perfect scam for a reason.

haha... what a joke.

My son is looking forward to his first professional spring training this season.

I personally believe that success is a road paved by experience. My kid played for a great travel program because he was good, was a big factor in the success of his hs team's success...

He got his college committment on PG's ranking over the many events he attended... He got his professional chance based on his success in college, hs and travel ball... All backed up with verifiable stats, facts and evaluations by PG.

We are big fans of PG. My kid is an amazing player. So is everyone else.

How do you stand out?

By participating and competing against the best with and against the best players in the nation. Doing well. Making youself stand out in a crowd. Being picked because you have a verifiable resume.

Perfect Scam? NO.

It is a perfect opportunity to show who you are to a whole lot of baseball important people. We always pointed people to the PG website to verify what we said in the cover letter....

My kid was not a 10!, he is an iron horse and we used PG to rise him above the crowd.

Too many great players go unfound. GO GET FOUND!

I believe that everyone has their own opinions and experiences and there is no exact path on the way to success. Perfect Game is just one of those paths.

I echo Vecto and Playfair's post. In fact, we will be participating in the first PG tournament of 2012 next weekend!

Seattlestars,

I have to wonder what kind of hidden agenda is prompting you to slander a very well respected (and well deserving of respect) organization like Perfect Game.

This comment is totally untrue: "because I brought up the well known fact many people refer to perfect game as perfect scam." No way! It is a well known fact that Perfect Game is the most successful scouting organization in the country. Their events are attended by the best high school players in the country. College coaches and MLB scouts are lined up row after row at their events to watch the prospects play against the best possible competition.

Perfect Game is the best at what they do, and they always do business in a very ethical, thoughtful and caring manner. It's not fair for someone to come on here and anonymously attack the reputation of such a good and honest organization.

Julie

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
Lots of money for very little. Never met a coach in college who gives a rip about someone else's one day ranking. They need to see you, and they do not rely on perfect game to tell them who they should look at or not. They are called perfect scam for a reason.

Nothing subtle about your inference here. And later,

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16
I brought up the well known fact many people refer to perfect game as perfect scam....

Well, I've been around a while and did quite a bit of research on PG before sending my kid to an event and I never heard that before.
And then...

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16
PGSTAFF-
I have read a great many of your posts and you are a wonderful resource and I'm glad your here. That term may be a regional thing I don't know but PG is not that big in the northwest. They tell you what they are selling you and give you what they promise.

So now it's a term that you don't claim personally but is "maybe a regional thing"??? And now, all of a sudden, they deliver what they promise? Well, that's certainly a bit of a 180 from your earlier post. Sure doesn't sound like a scam to me. So, Seattle, which position are you taking?

You clearly know darned well that PG is a sponsor and PG contributes to this site in many ways. You make a blatant accusation ("They are called Perfect Scam for a reason") and then you start flipping like a fish in a boat. Another regular asks for an apology and you attack him. What is your real agenda here, Seattle?

For anyone that may be new here and has the slightest inclination to believe Seattlestars' initial unfounded comments regarding Perfect Game, please take some time to search this and other baseball blogs. You will find that the overwhelming majority of baseball folks in-the-know feel that PG is everything positive that MN-Mom states.

I have been around quite awhile. I have spoken to some parents over the years that were not happy with their kids rankings or ratings after attending a PG event. But I have never heard anyone refer to PG as Perfect Scam. Never, not one time.

The only complaints I have ever heard were from parents who felt their son was not ranked or rated as high as "they" thought they should have been. And that certainly should be expected. And those complaints were from parents that did not understand how players are evaluated.

PG is the best there is. It's not even close. They are simply outstanding at what they do. They are trusted and respected by the baseball world. They have tremendous credibility throughout the baseball community from all levels of the game. And yes from time to time someone who is upset about their kids ranking or rating will throw out a cheap shot at them. But thats ok. But if its done on this site or in front I me I will have my say and voice my opinion like many here already have.

PG does exactly what they say they are going to do. They do it better than anyone else. This site is a special site because we do not engage in this type of BS. We do not put down players. We do not come here to slander others and talk trash. We share information and talk baseball. This type of post and those that engage in this type of BS need to stay away imo.

seattlestars,

I have been to many PG events and have talked to quite a few coaches across the country and have NEVER heard of Perfect Scam. My only regret is not introducing myself to Jerry at these events. Maybe this year...

I can cite several examples of kids I know personally that were put "on the map" after a PG event. Was it the ONLY reason they were recruited? Certainly not. But...their ranking from PG contributed very heavily to the interest they received.

Seattle Star 16,

Are you on the level with your posts? I'm thinking it's possibly an early April Fool or someone has hijacked your computer.

Anyway, my belief is that there is a very good relationship between the summer coaches, PG, and the college coaches. They work best when used together. I know for a fact our travel coaches have good relationships with both PG and college coaches, to the benefit of the players. I just don't see why you can't enjoy the services of all.

The tournaments are second to none. They provide a platform for players to be seen by a large number of coaches. I just don't see how you can debate this.

Our high school recently hired a new high school coach. Prior to this year there has never been any emphasis on JV. If you had standout talent you played varsity beginning freshman year. This coach found a coach to run JV that was an experienced ballplayer. The coach told all of the parents he found him on the PG website. A 2007 HS graduate, was drafted in the 26th round out of HS, listed as a top 100 HS player. He played ball and graduated college this year (2011). It is my understanding that injuries took him out as far as being drafted this year, but he seems to be a great young man and we are elated to have him. Like I said, our new coach specifically mentioned that he found him online through PG website and then made contact. How's that for PG?

We all have kids that play at different levels. Playing at a PG showcase guarantees nothing as far as recruiting. The showcase is an opportunity to show what you can do. If what you can do is not enough to turn heads (or if you had an off day at the showcase) PG cannot really help you. PG should only be judged by deciding if they provide the services that they claim to provide. They do not claim that they will secure a college scholarship or pro-opportunity for everyone who plays. We just returned form the World tournament in Ft. Myers. I heard no complaints there from parents, players, pro-scouts, college scouts, or observers. Well, actually, I did hear some college scouts lament the fact that certain players were already committed...

I live in the Seattle area, am pretty well-connected in the local baseball community at lower (16 and below) ages, and am very familiar with the Seattle Stars organization. My son has not (yet) participated in a PG event, though that is something I am keenly interested in doing and even before finding HSBBWeb (where I found universal respect and praise for PG, and encountered the incredibly helpful, generous, and truly incomparable PGStaff), I was asking around about PG events and NEVER encountered anyone who spoke ill of PG whatsoever, or EVER denigrated its programs using the term "Perfect Scam." It is MORE than a stretch to say that "many people" in the Northwest refer to PG in this way! As a northwesterner, I am embarassed to be lumped in with this unfair criticism, as though Seattlestars16 speaks for our region our something....

It is true that PG has not had the presence here that it appears to have in other parts of the country. But that is changing, and changing fast. I know there were PG events in Oregon last year, and individual PG events in the Seattle area (and everybody I talked to about those events spoke glowingly of them). Higher level teams at older age groups are also VERY aware of PG, with several of the better programs and coaches having taken teams to Jupiter for years now. Say PG doesn't have the presence here that you'd like to see if you feel that way (which to me is really an indication of respect and a desire to see MORE of PG), but don't denigrate the program just because it doesn't have much exposure in your area!

To me, this criticism comes from an unreasonable expectation that Perfect Game can be some kind of be-all, end-all recruiting tool. Of course it isn't, but PG sure seems to do what it sets out to do better and with more credibility and respect than anybody else on a national basis. Of course it is only one of many tools in your toolbox - who said anything different?

If the criticism is that PG is too expensive, then don't go, but don't criticize unless you've made any attempt to figure out whether the services PG provides can be provided more cheaply (I don't really think they can). If not, then your decision not to go is your own personal decision and the criticism is purely personal and really unfounded as it applies to anybody else. If the criticism is that the event is good but they're trying to sell you too many add-on services, JUST DON'T BUY THOSE. You have a choice.

I would add that I doubt that seattlestars16 speaks for the Seattle Stars organization, even, and I would hope that Perfect Game won't hold it against them that what appears to be one disgruntled parent has chosen to so publicly call out the PG program. That would be a shame - though perhaps they have some questions that should be answered....

quote:

Originally posted by EdgarFan:
I would add that I doubt that seattlestars16 speaks for the Seattle Stars organization, even, and I would hope that Perfect Game won't hold it against them that what appears to be one disgruntled parent has chosen to so publicly call out the PG program. That would be a shame - though perhaps they have some questions that should be answered....

He cant be speaking for the Seattle Stars organization, a very brief review of the Seattle Stars Alumni is impresive and many are in the PG database as well.

Interesting subject. My son isnt the biggest guy in the world but he plays big. We went to Jupiter and he held his own. It is up to the kid to take advantage of the opportunity. I can only say that we have had a good experience with PG. Attached is some video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...index=2&feature=plcp

quote:

Originally posted by LOVINGIT:
Interesting subject. My son isnt the biggest guy in the world but he plays big. We went to Jupiter and he held his own. It is up to the kid to take advantage of the opportunity. I can only say that we have had a good experience with PG. Attached is some video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...index=2&feature=plcp

Hello and welcome to the forum. Don't judge the forum by this discussion as it is atypical.

By the video it looks as if he had a good showing.

My only suggestion would be that if you intend on using it to make a video/DVD to send to coaches, you exclude the graphics and music in the background. Just your son and the stats will speak for themselves.

P.G, Scout ball, Travel Ball, College Camps, Honor Roll Camps,Goodwill games, Area Code Games, HSBBW etc... They're all potential vehicles for exposure. If locally you can get where you want to be through Travel Ball, fantastic. Why spend the money. It's pretty cool to have all these venues to potentially showcase your skills.

For the boy, he never attended a P.G event. Scout ball proved to be the best value/experience for his development and exposure over a period of time. Facing NAIA teams as a 16 year old really provided an excellent opportunity. And it was free.

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
Lots of money for very little. Never met a coach in college who gives a rip about someone else's one day ranking. They need to see you, and they do not rely on perfect game to tell them who they should look at or not. They are called perfect scam for a reason. Play for the best summer program you can. All colleges in the area watch them closely. Put your summer coach to work for you it is a big part of his job. Why do you play for them and pay? To participate in a program that plays top level league and showcase tournaments so you can be seen. Your summer coach knows this and it is a big part of his job to get you into the next level if he can't do that upcoming studs will choose a different program that can. They are a pipeline to college coaches they have each other on speed dial. your summer coach is his grocery store.

SS16 (I'll abbreviate your screen), the first thing I can say is that you must communicate in a very small circle. Almost everything you site here is opposite of my experience, like others have already related. I meet several coaches who use PG's list to hone in on specific needs of their own program. I certainly agree that they need to see you and that is one of the reasons I always encourage players to visit the colleges they are interested in, OFTEN, including going to their camps. When my son was being recruited I kept in constant contact with a couple of summer coaches my son played for over the years and his HS coach as well. These coaches were never contacted about my son from these colleges except the HS coach to add to the questionnaires they send out, even though he received earnest interest from several top programs and offers from a couple of SEC teams. Summer coaches may not always see promoting "your" son the same way you might expect. I was very disappointed the second time we went to Jupiter when my son was 16 because the summer coach "liked" another pitcher over my son and I felt he did not get the opportunities I expected. They are not the pipeline you describe in the NW in other parts of the country.

I can say that I did not agree with some things PG reported with respect to my son, but we used their information as introductions to several coaches when we were in that mode. I believe PG's data did not impact where my son ended up at the college he played, but I do believe that their data helped my son get drafted into MLB this past year. MLB scouts use this data and watch for progress. For pitchers that seems to revolve around fastball velocity. I say this because MLB scouts I talked to indicated he need to be over 90 mph to get GOOD interest out of HS. Before college PG was hesitant to project my son at high velocities, but he ended up peaking at 95. PG did not do that for him or even report it that I know of; he worked his butt off and had one of the best pitching coaches in college baseball.

Any time you evaluate players you are putting a bull's eye on your back. Think of the nasty things that players and parents say about the local HS coach after cut decisions come down. Then multiply that times the thousands of players that PG has to see and evaluate each year. Bear in mind, these kids wouldn't be showing up at showcases if they didn't hope to confirm their having collegiate-level capabilities. Many of them get a rude awakening, and they (and their parents) often take it hard. Bitter, sour grapes comments will always be there to be found.

I've heard people claim that paying for a PG showcase is a waste of money, that it didn't help them, etc. Well, if you thought just showing up and paying would get you a college roster spot, then you misunderstood what you were paying for. You don't pay to have someone embellish your resume for you. You pay to have objective information published by a reliable source. If you demonstrate high level talent, having PG verify it for all the world to see can be very helpful in opening doors. If PG confirms that your talent comes up short, then it may very well lead someone to put your next e-mail in the deleted folder.

Even with that being the nature of the beast, I have never heard anyone refer to PG as "perfect scam". I think that is pretty darned offensive. It's definitely not just an expression of someone's legitimate opinion. This is a statement from someone looking to pick a fight.

Surely colleges won't recruit a kid on PG's say so alone. No one has ever contended that; surely Jerry doesn't.

What I can tell you is, if you get a high PG grade or ranking, then when you e-mail a coach and direct his attention to that, it can get your name moved to the top of the list of kids that coach wants to check out for himself.

Think of this: How many times have you heard guys brag that they throw "upper 80's" or even 90+, but when you see them yourself, it just ain't so? How many times have you heard someone say that they are super fast, but you don't notice anything special when you see them play? Well, imagine now that you're a college coach sifting through scores of e-mails from kids all claiming to have all sorts of MPH or running speed or whatever. But one of them links you to a PG web page that actually confirms their 60 time or their fastball velocity. Maybe there's even a profile page that has PG event RADAR gun readings posted for several tournaments and showcases over a 2-3 year period, and you can see how a kid threw 80 when he was 15, 84 when he was 16, and 88 when he was 17.

This kind of information is very, very helpful to the kid who actually is a genuine college prospect. But, as an old travel ball colleague of mine is fond of saying, the problem with attending exposure events is that you can get exposure, or you can get exposed. If you are one who likes to brag and then believe your own baloney, there is a reasonable likelihood that you won't like your PG evaluation, you won't get much positive out of your showcase expenditure (except maybe a much-needed wake-up call), and you might be just the kind of guy who then runs around telling everyone how showcases are nothing but scams.

Nice post Milo

quote:

Well, if you thought just showing up and paying would get you a college roster spot, then you misunderstood what you were paying for.

My son played his HS baseball at a small school so his stats were very good but usually dismissed as simply a product of playing inferior competition. His PG rating gave him credibility.

You can't always rely on your HS and travel coaches. My son's coaches had good contacts but not at schools where my son was interested. He made his own contacts and used PG to open the door.

Again, PG didn't get him recruited but it gave him something to show potential coaches beyond his own assurances that he was 'qualified'....