PG Scoring and Rankings

My son played local travel ball for years and had great success and was always considered the best, as he got older he wanted to see how he compared to kids from other regions, so we decided to go to a perfect game showcase in new jersey, coming from a small town and growing up with the kids you compete against, this event was quite impressive, my son could not have had a better showing than he had on that day, but most of his comments after it was over was how cool it was to play with such talented kids and how neat it was to meet such great kids. Even before the event was over he had two texes from coaches from two of the top 15travel teams in the nation, after that event was over the difference in his level of confidence at all levels of his game was incredible, he played for one of those teams, and several of his teammates were from thatPG event. He went toCobb and Jupiter and could not have had a better baseball experience.PG gave my son in my option a once in a life time opportunity and he took advantage of every bit of it, he is now a committed 2012 senior and will play for his school of choice
Thanks PG
sittinondahill

Here is one I have heard from so many different people - parents - players - coaches and scouts in college and pro sports - that I cant even try to remember how many people it actually was.

Perfect game is the best youth baseball talent evaluation entity in the world. Period.

Honest - hard working - helpful and knowledgable.
That is what comes to mind when I hear the term "Perfect Game".

For those reading - you can rely on an occasional disgruntled - or just completely clueless - internet ranter - like this Seattle dude.
(If it was my company and he made public statements like that - he would need to get a lawyer quickly. Win or lose - who cares - just put him through the hassle.)

Or - you can listen to people who actually know what they are talking about - tens of thousands of them - and experience Perfect Game for yourself.

I can assure you - you will be a bit awed at the talent - and you or your son may not do so well - but you wont ever forget any of those experiences.

A great organization led by a great man. In my opinion.

WOW. have not been on here for a few days and was shocked at the firestorm of negative responses. No one mentioned all the good things I had to say but focused on one line. You all do realize we are talking about a for profit business entity don't you. from the responses you would have thought I personally attacked your mother or son. For a comment about a business it was taken very personal. Edgar fan, I speak for myself and I represent only myself. from your post I feel you may not be as well connected as you think. Vector, you ask for proof of an opinion. An opinion is just that my feeling not fact. Would you like names and phone numbers transcripts and specific cases of people who were led to believe anyone who is anyone has a pg rating and therefore it is greatly important. I said they provide what is promised but a definite inference exist that it is more important than I think it is. is the marketing and salesmanship of this company deceptive in someways by some people as to how important it is. I think so. Thank you for looking up the definition. It seems to fit perfectly. I have seen PG events. Are they good, yes. have they helped many, yes. is their value oversold and deceptive, in cases yes. My son has not attended a PG event so if your thinking I have an ax to grind wrong. Again, they are very expensive and they are selling a service and product and some of the marketing and oral salesmanship can be deceptive. that is my opinion. That's all, be careful of what you buy is all I'm really tring to say. I would like to know why this is so deeply personal to some. So put down your pitch forks lanterns and hanging rope. PGSTAFF, my post has done you a good bit of marketing. you may wish to caution people to not lynch another person for their thoughts while attaching PG's name to it. not good for business

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
I would like to know why this is so deeply personal to some.... PGSTAFF, my post has done you a good bit of marketing. you may wish to caution people to not lynch another person for their thoughts while attaching PG's name to it. not good for business

Your initial post clearly inferred that PG is a scam. Many here are personally familiar with PG events, their business model, and the integrity of their leaders such as PGSTAFF and know that this could not be further from the truth. That's why it is deeply personal to some.

Yes, your post did prompt quite a bit of positive support in PG's defense. This is not an unusual occurrence here and elsewhere. That should tell you something.

There is no need to tell PGSTAFF to caution people to not "lynch" others for their thoughts regarding PG. He has always taken the high road with these matters.

Some people place a high value on the honesty and integrity of their word and work hard to apply that to their business practice as well as their personal lives. Such people do not deserve to be falsely accused of something quite the contrary, particularly by someone who hasn't even had direct dealings with them. Yes, PG is a for-profit business. If only every business operated in the same straight forward fashion, with the same organization, communication, professionalism, honesty and helpfullness they do...

I could come on here and post many stories that would explain "at least" my feelings about Jerry and PG. I know for a fact many others on this site could do the same thing. You see it as a business but its not a business that is solely in the business to make money. Many of us know that because we know Jerry Ford. He is a personal friend of ours. He is a personal friend to many young men just wanting a chance to show others what they are capable of doing. Wanting to know where they stack up. Wanting a great baseball experience. I could post stories of people being allowed to come and "get a do over at no cost" because their son came down with a virus at an event and couldn't perfrom once he got there. Or many many other situations where it was personal to Jerry Ford. Times where he went out of his way and made sure his staff went out of their way to help a kid. Many many times.

Your son has never attended a PG event. Have you? Which one? Who are you? Step aside from your anonymous screen name if your going to attack my friend. By the way my name is Kenny May. I have attended numerous PG events. I know PG. You have no freaking clue what your talking about. Your original post was bogus, period. You wonder why so many people took this personal? You attacked one of the most sincere, credible, caring and genuine people in the baseball community. You attacked our friend and you want to know why people took this personal?

You posted something that was very slanderous. You had no idea who the audience was. You stepped up and banged on a Hornets nest and now your wondering why your getting stung? It should be pretty obvious by now. I have nothing to gain by posting this. My son will not attend another PG event. But I will. And I will count Jerry Ford and PG as my friends till they plant me in the ground. I know what he does for young men who love the game. I know what he does for parents. You dont and thats obvious. Take your slanderous remarks about my friend and go away. Or post your name and who you are and provide your facts to back up your BS. I posted my name and will glad to back up every single word I have posted.

Seattle - your'e blabbering and spewing out more nonsense.

But its really simple - I just think you are full of ****.

Thats all.

My son was discovered at SelectFest. For anyone not familar it's a highly regarded northeast showcase. It requires references from pro scouts to attend. This does not mean my son is a pro prospect. It only means a couple see athletic potential. Due to his injuries his getting to college ball required walking on with references and assurances he's healthy.

Perfect Game played an indirect role. My son came home from PG convinced he belonged on the field with anyone. That's because almost everyone plays at Perfect Game events. After two serious injuries and one surgery it was knowing he belonged on the field that kept him going.

I read through this post quickly. I saw a lot of defense of Perfect Game. I only noticed one defense of Jerry Ford from Kenny May. From reading advice from Jerry on this board and the handful of PM's where he's provided information, the man behind the business is just as big as the organization itself. My impression is he would help anyone in anyway possible.

I am in full agreement with coach May on this issue. I have also gotten to know Mr. Ford and he is an exceptional individual who really cares about the kids. Just like coach May I have nothing to gain by making these remarks because my son is also done doing any PG events. Even if I did have something to gain it would not help my son because that is not how he does business-so refreshing.

Thanks Kenny now it's clear you are close friends with them. It makes sense you are so biased and unable to see things from a different view. I said they have the nick name in some circles as perfect scam. That is not slanderous. You want my name Kenny. What does someone from the east coast whom I've never met, likely never will meet and would not know it if I did want my name for. Would you like my social security number too for your Internet search. Are you planning to black list me somewhere somehow. What is your motive. I have been to an event they have one in our area. You don't get to chase someone away because they don't like every aspect of your friends business. Take a breath and check your blood pressure

Seattle,
Coach May makes some really great points in his post, many of us here who took offense to your attack have no reason to defend PG, as we don't need them at this point in our sons lives.

But truth is that PGStaff is friends to many, and while not everyone kisses up , most who have attended any event or showcase understands, and I think that it would be wise and prudent for you to keep this opinion (based on what others have told you) to yourself OR hold judgement until your player attends a PG event or showcase.

Thank you TPM for the cordial response I will do exactly that. I will tell you that so many who respond guns blazing in favor of The business PG have prompted me to look a little deeper. It may or may not change my opinion. PGSTAFF has heard (once) the same name I doubt we heard it from the same person at the same place or even the same region of the country it is out there. I do wish I hadn't brought it up. Not because it is right or wrong but rather that it set a handfull of people off like a roman candle. Not worth it. That company obviously has sainthood status with some

Seattlestars - Jonathan Grabe here...I have been to at least a dozen PG events over the years with my two sons that are now in college. I wish I had the opportunity to enjoy another PG event, the events were some of the most enjoyable times in my life.

Yes they do cost some money, however for what PG provides I believe they provide an excellent product and service.

And as with Kenny May, and TPM and many others who have personally met Jerry Ford, I count him among my friends that I have met in the baseball universe. It would be good to remember that the baseball world is quite small.

Jerry has taken the time over the years to respond to me personally through e-mail and over the phone. He has provided me with insight and counsel that has been greatly appreciated.

Yes, Mr. Ford and PG have many friends here. Most of us have patronized his business, and have done so with great anticipation and happiness.

I personally wish that I could do it all over again! Maybe with my grandson!

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
Thank you TPM for the cordial response I will do exactly that. I will tell you that so many who respond guns blazing in favor of The business PG have prompted me to look a little deeper. It may or may not change my opinion. PGSTAFF has heard (once) the same name I doubt we heard it from the same person at the same place or even the same region of the country it is out there. I do wish I hadn't brought it up. Not because it is right or wrong but rather that it set a handfull of people off like a roman candle. Not worth it. That company obviously has sainthood status with some

My advice is that you have to be careful what you say on a public messageboard as you never know who is reading.

My feeling is that it is NOT necessary for everyone to do a PG showcase, or tournament and yes, perhaps some benefit from it more than others. If you had taken the time to read some info here, you will get a variety of opinions on the subject. Ratings and rankings are what they are, play hard and get good exposure is what is important.

We sent son to one showcase, and he was invited to National. Could son have gotten a good scholarship without doing that stuff, most likely yes. We live in a highly visible state. It was a good experience, maybe some people have bad experiences, again, you can't post on here things that you have HEARD from others largly due to the fact that everyone's experiences are different, something I am trying to get across in another topic. And yes it is a business, but misunderstood statements can hurt business as well as the person who posts it.

Everyone wants different things also, it may not be necessary for those where you are who want to stay in state. And I highly doubt that just any travel coach, unless he has ties with someone, can just call every coach up to tell them they have a great player for their program, it just doesn't work that way. However, Coach XYZ from the east coast who has been to a ton of PG events might take a look at the list of prospects (after receiving an email from player) in WA state and call PG (not in particular Mr. Jerry Ford) and ask what they thought of the player at their showcase.

I am not sure if you get that concept, if you don't than I suggest you try, and I also suggest an apolgy for speaking too quickly about things that you have heard but not experienced.

Jerry is a good person, anyone can call him up and he will give advice, free of charge. Most true business people don't do that, free isn't always good for business.

Although, I am a fan of PG I will be the first to say that it is not for everybody and that a player can get exposure and play college ball without ever attending a PG event. I made this exact statement to Jerry on this website under another board topic. Feel free to pull up my other posts under my board name and you will see that I am not lying

I remember when my son was contemplating attending a PG Showcase. I point blank told him that participating in a PG Showcase is like taking a test and the entire high school gets to see your results. It is not for the faint hearted because you or your daddy can't lie, the results are there for all to see. You can agree or disagree with the result but in the words of a retired NFL coach "your record is who you are" at least in some circles. Translation, there are some folks in the baseball world who take those numbers seriously and may form opinions based on those numbers and videos. Is it fair for them to do this, probably not but it is what it is.
Fortunately, my son had enough confidence to test his abilities against other kids and basically say to the independent evaluator "I am willing to be graded for the world to see". Quite frankly, I wished he had done better but in all honesty they got it right. The great thing about the experience is that he walked away from it knowing that he had and still has a lot of work to do. In other words he was not as good of a ball player as he thought which continues to help him grow.

In conrast, I remember a parent complaining on the board concerning a travel organization that my son used to play with regarding why did'nt the team list the players names on the website and/or why did'nt the team put the players' name on the back of the jersey since the organization had a lot of teams and the parent was concerned that the college scout would find it hard to keep track of the players. The president of the organization stated there was no need for any of that because he had every scout in a certain geographical area on his speed dial. If they are interested in the player they can contact him. Mind you that the organization has MMMultiple teams so how he would know all the nuisances of each player at a given time is amazing to me-but such is life.

When my son was contacted by multiple D1 coaches after he attended a Showcase, the recruiting coordinator in each instance was able to direct the head coach to the PG website which listed his rating, provided a unbiased written opinion of his skills and a video of his hitting and throwing, among other stuff such as write ups of his performances at the games he played in. He eventually received multiple D1 offers, after making an unofficial visit to the colleges. Guess what my son did not have to rely on a phone call from a coach or the head of the organization to get interest. I realize that travel organizations and coaches can be very important to the process. It is just nice to know that for some people there are other options. The point of the matter is that PG is not the end all or be all for everybody but in my opinion there is not anything out here that can meet that standard, including travel team coaches/organizations, high school coaches etc. There are many ways to skin the cat. I am thankful for all of the available options, including travel teams.

PG and specifically Jerry Ford offer a service that many of us appreciate. For those of us that have gotten to know Jerry, it is difficult to accept certain types of attacks. PG is not perfect, no pun intended but I do beleive in my heart that Jerry has his heart in the right place.

seattlestars- Have you or your son ever attended a PG event?

quote:

That company obviously has sainthood status with some

I've only heard two criticisms regarding Perfect Game. I should really say they are opinions. 1) You don't need to play Perfect Game to play college ball. I believe even Jerry would agree with this. But for some players it's the best place. For others it's still a good place. 2) It's too expensive. Expensive is a relative term based on individual incomes. But I've heard of players getting there with help from others/teams. But outside some parents complaining about PG scores I have never heard anyone slander Perfect Game calling it a scam or any other insult with legal ramifications.

And the kids whose parents complained, Perfect Game had it right. One kid's parents thought UNC was interested because they returned a camp invitation flyer after he filled out the online recruiting form, therefore the PG score must be wrong. The kid is playing D3.

quote:

It's too expensive. Expensive is a relative term based on individual incomes.

RJM, I too have heard others say this. It always boggles my mind that people are willing to bop from $150 event to $250 event to $350 event, but not pay for just one $699 PG event. The problem with the former approach is that it relies on having scouts see you right then and there at the showcase. By comparison, PG may have coaches in attendance, but then the player pages and video links just blow away the other approach in terms of value.

If you're looking at shelling out $15-55,000 per year on college, and you're trying to cut that down by 25-75%, it seems to me that whining about a few hundred dollars that may be tremendously helpful to your efforts is just kind of silly. Surely I don't tell people they should pay all sorts of money to just go to every event out there. But what I do tell the players on our team, and others, is that you are often better served by doing just one event -- provided that you are ready to be at your best when the time comes, and provided it's a PG event.

Over the years there has been lots of discussion here about ratings and rankings.

I would say 95% agree that they (PG) get it right, the other percentage thought that their players got cheated. In other words that they assumed that their players were much better than the numerical # or projection given. Jerry on many occassions has said that they don't always get it right. I'll bet he's had a lot of unhappy folks to contend with over the years, dealing with parents who think that their kids got screwed is very tough, I would imagine.

Then there are a whole bunch of parents that I know who spent their hard earned money, took their players and walked away knowing that they have a lot to improve upon. Some of those parents (examples) have posted here. We waited, until son was in his junior year and ready to show off his skills before his most important junior HS season and going into senior summer. He was encouraged by his summer team travel coach (former Pokers founder Mike Roberts), but I hear that many travel coaches discourage participation, why is that? Most likely because he would rather have that money in his pocket?

I did mention and I will again, with everything you do to help your player to get exposure there should be a purpose. Parents have to understand that purpose.

Seattle, keep in mind that in most cases the rating is based upon projection (which can be improved) and what you do with it is important. If one is spending that money to complain afterwards that they got nothing from it, then they are not aware of how it can be used more of a learning, recruiting tool than just a waste of money, making people believe it's a scam.

I posted this after Midlo's post but as you can see, the whole idea is more about being educated and smart, rather then supporting a good friend. JMO.

Just took 2014 son to PG National underclass main event in Fort Myers. He hasn't been graded yet, but I can tell you that it was one the of the best baseball experiences of his life, regardless if they give him a grade of 0 or 10. My son, like so many others,works tirelessly at improving himself as an athlete and a baseall player. Seeing so many good players at one event has inspired him to work even harder. These last three weeks he has been relentless in his workouts. If he is able to keep this up, the cost of the event was worth every penny no matter what the scores are. I think attending a top nothc event gives the kids a different perspective of what "a good baseball player" really is, especially coming from the northeast.

Watching the three day event was quite an experience. One thing that I did learn is that you can be a good all around player, but it is very difficult (but not impossible) to shine without at least 1 standout tool.

Following up on what TPM expressed - I think it is really all about the truth.

For people who have interacted with PG in one way or the other - we KNOW what he and his organization are all about.

It's just about telling the truth.

Anything else is just slander, libel and lies.

IMO.

Perfect game gives a player an opportunity to be evaluated by the people who are simply the best doing it. They see thousands of players. They have seen thousands of players. They will not be around very long if they are not credible in what they do. It gives a player an opportunity to measure himself against the other players. It gives parents an idea of where their kid stacks up at the moment. It opens peoples eyes or it causes them to whine and cry.

Perfect Game serves many purposes for players. #1 It will let you and the player know what the experts in this field think of your son's ability. It will give him an opportunity to see for himself where he stacks up against other players from all over the country. It will also give the parent the same opportunity if they are willing to see it.

#2 If your son is a talented player then he will be in a data base that college coaches research. Yes they research the data base. Yes they want to know what PG thinks. Yes they respect PG. Yes it will get your son the opportunity for someone to want to take a closer look.

#3 It is not the final word. It is a snapshot in time. If you get a 9.0 or higher does that mean you are set? No. You better keep working and work even harder. You sit around and think that did it for you and the next time they evaluate you you could be a 6.5. If you get a 6.5 great. You now know what someone else thinks. Someone that matters. So go to work on the things that caused them to rate you a 6.5. Use it as motivation to get better. Just like Tyler Hanover did. And many others.

Everyone is not going to come away with a great experience. Everyone is not going to use the information to help themselves. Some are going to and some are going to attack the messenger because they didn't hear what they wanted to hear and what they thought they should hear. Remember this "You opinion of your son's ability is not as important as the opinion of the college coaches and scouts that see him perform." So use the information good and bad, positive and negative for your benefit. Or sit around and whine about it and tell everyone they are a scam because you didn't like the results you got for your money.

Your not paying to have someone tell you what you want to hear. Your paying someone to tell you and show you what you need to hear.

Coach May - and the truth - always seem to go hand in hand. And always in a very understandable and compassionate way. Just like Jerry Ford.

That is why - at age 53 - I still refer to him as Coach. And always will.

That being said - everyone has a different way of expressing themselves. My approach - and I know it isnt popular and that is OK with me - is to say exactly what I believe.

What I believe is that this Seattle dude - as I said before - is full of **** and has a reason for his posts - however misguided they may be.

And no amount of weasel wording in subsequent posts will change that.

And that is that.

My nomination for the "Understatement of the Year Award:"

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Remember this "You opinion of your son's ability is not as important as the opinion of the college coaches and scouts that see him perform."

Another terrific post, Kenny.

The people at Perfect Game are "baseball people;" which is one of the numerous excellent reasons so many here have come to their defense. "Baseball people" make their living successfully from the game of baseball.

Parents are not "baseball people;" especially if they come across as though they think they are and try to transfer their opinions on to the "baseball people" who make decisions about their son's future in the game. Those who attempt it run a great risk of wasting their time and, quite possibly, hurting their son's opportunities.

Experienced coaches view the "opinionated parents" of a recruit as "meddling parents" once the player joins their program; and, their jobs are considered tough enough without inviting meddling parents into the "family." There are too many excellent, academically qualified recruits out there whose parents don't meddle to put up with it.

One more thing: Anyone who refers to an organization that I know from my own and many others' experience to be credible and beneficial as a "scam" can only be speaking from a "sour grapes" perspective as far as I'm concerned. As our friend itsinthegame says, "And that is that."

Have a little question about PG also. Son went to first Pg showcase, catcher, scored OK, 8 rated high follow,looking at comparable numbers to him thought it might have been 8.5 but no huge deal, considering he's also played in 4 PG tourneys and stats were good. Owner of team has son that plays for same organization score 7.5 at showcase, played at wwba tourney in fall went hitless, raised his score to an 8, can't figure out why. Pop time .2 slower, velocity a few mph slower also. Father of said son has several teams- 4 age groups, that play multiple PG every year. Alot of cash going to Pg. Owners Older son has went to at least 4 PG showcases and raised his score from a 7 to a 9 and top 500 rating. Very pedestrian measurables as a catcher, kinda makes you scratch your head. My Son has gotten a lot of exposure and these events and has a good D1 offer on the table now, I'm pretty sure more to come, so not really complaining but does make you wonder. Older son mentioned earlier struggled for offers ends up will be a walk on for a team, supposedly.

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
WOW. have not been on here for a few days and was shocked at the firestorm of negative responses. No one mentioned all the good things I had to say but focused on one line. You all do realize we are talking about a for profit business entity don't you. from the responses you would have thought I personally attacked your mother or son. For a comment about a business it was taken very personal. Edgar fan, I speak for myself and I represent only myself. from your post I feel you may not be as well connected as you think. Vector, you ask for proof of an opinion. An opinion is just that my feeling not fact. Would you like names and phone numbers transcripts and specific cases of people who were led to believe anyone who is anyone has a pg rating and therefore it is greatly important. I said they provide what is promised but a definite inference exist that it is more important than I think it is. is the marketing and salesmanship of this company deceptive in someways by some people as to how important it is. I think so. Thank you for looking up the definition. It seems to fit perfectly. I have seen PG events. Are they good, yes. have they helped many, yes. is their value oversold and deceptive, in cases yes. My son has not attended a PG event so if your thinking I have an ax to grind wrong. Again, they are very expensive and they are selling a service and product and some of the marketing and oral salesmanship can be deceptive. that is my opinion. That's all, be careful of what you buy is all I'm really tring to say. I would like to know why this is so deeply personal to some. So put down your pitch forks lanterns and hanging rope. PGSTAFF, my post has done you a good bit of marketing. you may wish to caution people to not lynch another person for their thoughts while attaching PG's name to it. not good for business

Based on your replies to myself and others it is clear that you are attempting to obfuscate, or at bare minimum mitigate the mess you have gotten into with your posted words. Furthermore, your delusional assertion that you have somehow assisted PG by posting your slanderous diatribe is truly pathetic.

Had you been an honorable man you would have seen how I and others took legitimate offense to your slanderous comments against a reputable organization, and apologized. You also are intentionally trying to play semantics by implying PG can be considered a scam based on your interpretation of the definition.
Guess what, we did not make up the definition, but clearly we have a much better understanding of what the word means.
As I said, you can dislike PG for a multitude of reasons(legitimate or not), and if it is a differing opinion then so be it. However there is a vast chasm between saying you do not like a business because of XYZ, vs. casting unfounded slanderous aspersions.


So at this point continued interaction with you is likely to be a waste of time.
Unless you retract your comment and apologize, you should be considered persona non grata on this forum.

College recruiters and professional scouts make decisions based upon what they, themselves, have seen; not upon anyone's rating. Scouting services are more valuable for the venue they provide to be seen by a wide range of decision-makers than they are as a rating vehicle. If you allow yourself to get all caught up in one player's ranking versus another's, you're making a big mistake.

Read this article. I think this kid is probably real glad he attended a PG event...

http://www.perfectgame.org/Art...ew.aspx?article=6462

quote:

Originally posted by jazzmik:
Read this article. I think this kid is probably real glad he attended a PG event...

http://www.perfectgame.org/Art...ew.aspx?article=6462

Great stuff, can't argue that this was a scam!!!!

quote:

Have a little question about PG also. Son went to first Pg showcase, catcher, scored OK, 8 rated high follow,looking at comparable numbers to him thought it might have been 8.5 but no huge deal, considering he's also played in 4 PG tourneys and stats were good. Owner of team has son that plays for same organization score 7.5 at showcase, played at wwba tourney in fall went hitless, raised his score to an 8, can't figure out why. Pop time .2 slower, velocity a few mph slower also. Father of said son has several teams- 4 age groups, that play multiple PG every year. Alot of cash going to Pg. Owners Older son has went to at least 4 PG showcases and raised his score from a 7 to a 9 and top 500 rating. Very pedestrian measurables as a catcher, kinda makes you scratch your head. My Son has gotten a lot of exposure and these events and has a good D1 offer on the table now, I'm pretty sure more to come, so not really complaining but does make you wonder. Older son mentioned earlier struggled for offers ends up will be a walk on for a team, supposedly.

Kevin,

You have brought this up before here and it was really complaining and an actual accusation at that time. I always try to figure out who we are talking about when I read these type things. In your case, it was fairly easy to find out who your son is and who the other kid is.

Your son definitely has talent and I can see why you might have thought he should be graded higher. His pop time and velocity were slightly better than the other player. However, the pop time and velocity recorded on the other player was from the previous year. He was a year younger and he did not catch at the event in question. Also we have seen him 13 or 14 times in the past. We have seen your son 5 or 6 times. The first time we graded the other kid, he was graded a 7. The younger son is a baby (physically) compared to your son, yet he runs much better and throws with close to the same velocity. He appears to be very athletic for his size and age. We don't even think he will end up being a catcher. We graded him an 8 after studying video and trying to project his ability. We could be wrong or we could be right. Time will tell. Your son is better now and it wouldn't be a big surprise if your son ends up being much better in the future.

Grades and rankings are very much based on our opinion of a players projection. How good we think they will be in the future. Statistics don't mean much when it comes to projection. We have graded pitchers who throw mid 80s a 10 and pitchers who throws upper 80s a 9. Often the less physically developed player will actually grade higher based on this because of more room to grow and gain strenth. The more physically developed player sometimes doesn't always have as much projection.

Bottom line we graded the other kid a 9. He has also since committed to a DI program that has made the NCAA tournament twice in the past 4 years.

I don't have a problem when people feel we have graded their kid wrong. They might be right at times. I do have a problem when someone attempts to downgrade a teammate of their son by claiming his grade is a result of his fathers influence. It's especially bothersome when the person complaining plays in that same father's program.

There are a couple people who post here that know the story of how PG lost a huge sponsor because we didn't rank a certain son or give him a high grade. We have definitely made a few enemies and lost a few friends over the years, including some very infuencial ones, over rankings and grades. Its strange how much hate and revenge there can be sometimes when someone feels slighted. Its definitely not very enjoyable.

I really wish people could understand that scams and being untruthful just can't work for long in our business. We do make mistakes at times, college coaches and MLB scouts know it. They also know that they make mistakes at times. However, our entire existence revolves around honesty.

There is nothing special about me, but I cringe every time I read about dishonesty or scams involving Perfect Game. I should ignore it, but it just makes me sick to my stomach!

Why not just contact us if you have a problem or concern? It's easy to get in touch with us.

Thanks to all of you who always say nice things. I might go crazy if nothing but bad stuff showed up here all the time. This really is an amazing site with a lot good people involved. Someone once emailed me asking why we have all our people posting on HSBBW. I said that I was the only one who posted, but there are lots of people who we know.

Truth is, I don't really need or even deserve any pats on the back. At the same time, I don't care much for getting stabbed in the back. I know most everything posted here about PG is good stuff. I know that sometimes people simply want to know something about PG. But it wouldn't bother me a bit if PG wasn't mentioned for months on here. I'm not interested in anyone's money and I prefer talking about other things most of the time. There are more important things than PG.

PG-
Probably does sound like sour grapes, I apologize about that after reading my post I wish I hadn't sent it. Players mentioned are both good players and didn't really mean to insult them, but somtimes you wonder if connections pay off more than they should sometimes, I hope you could acknowledge that. I know scouts are gonna offer on what they see, but it seems your score does play a role in some coaches mind in what they may offer. So I apologize, didn't mean to come across like a jerk, I really don't know the steps involved if you wanted to challenge the score. By the way the younger brother is same age as my son, I believe. Mine plays up and is a baby compared to same grade that he's compared to. Sorry again

Kevin25,

FWIW I didn't read your post as sour grapes. I read it as a father searching for answers. We've all been there, and sometimes we have to step back to get some perspective.

My two cents...I think if you (or anyone) read what MidloDad, Prepster, Coach May and PGStaff himself are saying about PG it makes total sense. PG is one resource or tool (among many!) that coaches use. I had the unique experience to talk to a scout last year. At the time, the scout was looking at hitting mechanics & thought process for a pro recruit. He was looking for things that the most seasoned high level baseball Dad (or Mom!) would ever consider. The scout's income & recruiting success is tied to the scout's eyeballs. I got all my answers right there.

Best of luck to you!

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
Kevin25,

FWIW I didn't read your post as sour grapes. I read it as a father searching for answers. We've all been there, and sometimes we have to step back to get some perspective.

My two cents...I think if you (or anyone) read what MidloDad, Prepster, Coach May and PGStaff himself are saying about PG it makes total sense. PG is one resource or tool (among many!) that coaches use. I had the unique experience to talk to a scout last year. At the time, the scout was looking at hitting mechanics & thought process for a pro recruit. He was looking for things that the most seasoned high level baseball Dad (or Mom!) would ever consider. The scout's income & recruiting success is tied to the scout's eyeballs. I got all my answers right there.

Best of luck to you!

I agree 100% with Fenway. Much different than accusing them of being a scam.
Sounds like things are working out, good luck.

This site can trick some people. If any of you have been on other sites for any length of time you find out that back stabbing, accusations and slanderous comments can become the norm and not the exception. Dad's coming on the sites and asking everyone if they have heard about this kid who plays at such and such hs who is flat out stud. And its their kid when the truth comes out. People talking about kids who throw 90 at such and such hs when you have seen the kid and he throws 80. Posters getting attacked and on and on it goes. People who throw out wild and slanderous accusations and then hide behind the keyboard.

Then they find this site and from the first post you can see that they think they have found another one of the previous mentioned sites. Only to find out very quickly this is not that place. Oh no, far from it. The knowledge, experience, and quality of the baseball people on this site is unmatched. Period. Honesty and integrity is the HSBBW. Thats why I keep coming back. Because of the posters. The people that I can trust to be fair, honest, humble most times and always willing to help others.

It does not take a new poster very long to find this out. And they either understand this or they change their screen name and find it out all over again or they simply go back to those other sites.

Kevin25 the baseball world is very small. The longer your son plays the smaller it will get. Your son has an offer and seems to be in a good situation to move on in the game. Thats all that matters. No matter what the ranking is or will be the only thing that ultimately will matter is his performance. Good luck to him and you.

I went over the entire thread once again including my first post. I made a flip comment. The thread grew took on its own life and became more and more agitated. I used a term that I have heard and does exist. I should have chosen my words more carefully and used words that would not be so inflammatory. FOR THAT I APOOLOGIZE!!! it was a quickly written five words. The word scam should not have been perpetuated my me. FOR THAT I APPOLOGIZE!!! I admit I would have done so earlier but when being attacked so heavily whether a person is right or wrong they will probably swing back. I have said good things about PG the company, great things about this site and kind things about PGSTAFF. All ignored. I have no agenda for or against PG they do not have huge importance in this area in my opinion. Accept my apology or not I don't care I wrote it for myself in an attempt to correct a wrong. Whether or not I ever read a post or comment on this site again will be judged by the acceptance of my words and some recognition that some of the responses were a little heavy handed. COACH MAY. I will be glad to PM you my name, sons name, summer team, the college he has verbally agreed to play for and phone number if you have some honest genuine and productive reason for wanting to know it. VECTOR???? INTHEGAME????

Seattlestars,

There are many people here who have posted things they should not have, but never once apologized to anyone, it takes a bigger person to do so. JMO.

Apology accepted from me. I can't speak for anyone else.

Just an FYI, I am sure that you understand, because there is no importance in your area for something, doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. As an example I feel that attending Stanford Camp, doesn't work for most in this area, but I would never suggest that someone never attend, because as you read (I hope that you did) in that article about the unsigned senior, you just never know!

Best of luck to your son.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Seattlestars,

There are many people here who have posted things they should not have, but never once apologized to anyone, it takes a bigger person to do so. JMO.

Apology accepted from me. I can't speak for anyone else.

Works for me too.

The one thing about this site that bugs me at times is when only one opinion is allowed...whether I agree with it or not.

I hope you stick around seattlestars.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
The one thing about this site that bugs me at times is when only one opinion is allowed...whether I agree with it or not.

Good point. Some of us had to learn the hard way when we became moderators not to pull the trigger too quickly. I've learned, at least, to error on the side of leaving a thread open too long as opposed to closing it prematurely.

For the record, I did not close the orignal Tebow thread that I started in the first place. I am glad PG started a new one.

Glad some take my post as meant. Never meant to insult or trash another player, just kinda wondered how scores are done and they don't make sense sometime. Players I mentioned are talented players, and my boy is FAR from perfect. PG tourneys are very well ran and mine has enjoyed playing in. If anybody takes anything I said about another player as an insult, I am truly sorry, thats not how I am, I feel lucky for the experience my son's had in baseball and appreciate the hard work he's put in. PG having read your posts before and enjoyed them, if it came across as insulting your integrity, I am sorry. Seasons almost here ,very excited, best od luck to everyone!

seattlestars16,

We might not see all the top players from Washington at our events. However, I believe we do see most of them. Our goal is to always try to evaluate and identify the top players from every class in every state. We actually see most of them at PG events, but not all of them.

In the current 2012 class here are some of the top PG ranked players from Washington that have attended PG events. Follow their progress and see whether we are right or wrong about them. Of course this list might include more players before we are done.

Andrew Pullin (4 PG events)
Clint Coulter (4 PG events)
Mitchell Gueller (0 PG events, seen at area Codes)
Dylan Lavelle (4 PG events)
Theo Alexander (1 PG event)
Jonny Locher (5 PG events)
Cabe Reiten (6 PG events)
Austin Barr (1 PG event)
Michael Rucker (0 PG events, seen at Area Codes)
Taylor Jones (4 PG events)
Trevor Lane (4 PG events)
Reece Karalus (5 PG events)
Sam Brown (0 Pg events, seen him at Area Codes)
Marty Luckenbach (0 PG events, Seen at Area Codes)
Trek Stemp (0 PG events, our people saw him play for Kennewick Hs team)

In the 2013 class our top ranked players from Washington are Reese McGuire, Dustin Driver and Ian Hamilton. We have McGuire ranked #10 in the nation and Driver is in the top 100.

We actually have a fairly long history of accurately ranking players from the state of Washington. Some we have even named to the Aflac (now PG) All American Game.

Guess my point in all of this is to show we do not ignore the NW. We even invite a NW Scout Team to Jupiter each year. We may not be as popular there as other parts of the country, but the top players in Washington we usually see at our events. I want to believe that none of those players would have much bad to say about their experience with PG. PM poster "BUM", he has had a talented son who attended PG events. On the other hand, what we do has created some enemies. I wish we could be a great experience for everyone, but honesty prevents that. I wish we could satisfy everyone, but we never will. We are not everything to everybody.

All that said, it would be interesting to know where you are hearing the word scam. Then it might make some sense. I think apologies aren’t necessary in this case, especially forced apologies. You obviously feel the way you feel. Personally, I would rather have you find out the truth for yourself. You might then feel like it’s the people or the person who told you this that have been very misleading.

I replied earlier in this thread about this and did not ask for any apology… I still feel exactly the same way as this…

quote:

I can understand that PG is not for everyone. I can believe it might be too expensive for some people. And I already know that college coaches and scouts want to see players and I know we can't help every player be successful. However, please believe me... There is not any "scam" involved in any way! I hope you come to realize that some day.

I know there are a lot of scams out there. Please take the time to research the topic. If you live in the Seattle area try to contact the GM or Scouting Director of the Mariners. They both know us very well! Also our home office for BaseballWebTV is located in Seattle right by the Stadium. They might be partial, but they know us as well as most anyone.

I do hope you figure it out for yourself (your own opinion) at some point. That's more important than any apology.

I've been following this thread the past week. It seems that once or twice a year, somebody comes on here questioning a ranking/rating from Perfect Game. Why is it done here on the HSBaseballweb, on a public message board? Why not contact Perfect Game directly on their website? The answer to that question is simple...the owner/founder of Perfect Game is a prominent poster/member/sponsor on this site. He's genuine. He's passionate and proud of PG's accomplishments. He's Honest. Simply put...he cares. He cares about the perception of his company, but he also cares about the kids/players, and wants to see them succeed. PGStaff responds to accusations of scams, unhappy rankings, etc...etc...when he could simply stay off the message board completely, refer people to his actual staff at PG, or deal with the problems via PM's. PGStaff answers the questions/complaints/concerns directly, and doesn't hide behind anyone...we're very fortunate to have him on this message board sharing his thoughts and experiences throughout the years.

I realize it sounds like I'm Kissing Jerry Ford's behind...I'm not. I don't care what people think... My son is out of high school and playing college ball. He's a freshman, and will most likely never play a PG event again. Yes, he participated in a few PG showcases and tournaments. I didn't agree with the rankings and/or ratings at times for my son, but I didn't throw a fit and complain. Perfect Game didn't get my son a scholarship. Perfect Game isn't the reason my son is playing ball at his current university. However, Perfect Game helped tremendously with getting his name out there to start the initial interest.

Coach May and others have already responded in this thread, and no doubt they are difficult to follow. Obviously PGStaff is very well respected here, and rightfully so. Personally, I'm amazed that he continues to address complaints from parents here publicly. With that said, it's probably why myself and others have so much respect for Jerry Ford. Thanks Jerry. Thank you for everything that you do on the High School Baseball Web, it's very much appreciated.

Craig