PG Underclass Showcases - Worth it or not?

Count me a believer.

My 2018 RHP did a local PG Underclass showcase last August. There were a handful of college scouts in attendance. In the weeks following, he was invited to guest pitch at a national PG event and the emails began coming fast and furious.

It is a good vehicle to see "how you stack up" and to show what you've got. Talking to some head coaches, they like PG because there is indepenent verification of a skill (fast ball, pop time, etc) and videos.

Yes, $650 is steep, but it was well worth it to us.

FFXfireman posted:

Count me a believer.

My 2018 RHP did a local PG Underclass showcase last August. There were a handful of college scouts in attendance. In the weeks following, he was invited to guest pitch at a national PG event and the emails began coming fast and furious.

It is a good vehicle to see "how you stack up" and to show what you've got. Talking to some head coaches, they like PG because there is indepenent verification of a skill (fast ball, pop time, etc) and videos.

Yes, $650 is steep, but it was well worth it to us.

Thanks for the info!  I feel like so many of these showcases are geared towards pitchers (like that's who the scouts are watching).  My son is a catcher.  I don't know if pop time is a valued measurement or not though.  His last recorded pop time was 1.7.  I think it's easier for pitchers to get noticed.  We did a couple of showcase tournaments with a summer team.  The scouts who were there were only looking at pitchers.  It was disappointing.

dialedin posted:

FFXfireman posted:

Count me a believer.

My 2018 RHP did a local PG Underclass showcase last August. There were a handful of college scouts in attendance. In the weeks following, he was invited to guest pitch at a national PG event and the emails began coming fast and furious.

It is a good vehicle to see "how you stack up" and to show what you've got. Talking to some head coaches, they like PG because there is indepenent verification of a skill (fast ball, pop time, etc) and videos.

Yes, $650 is steep, but it was well worth it to us.

Thanks for the info!  I feel like so many of these showcases are geared towards pitchers (like that's who the scouts are watching).  My son is a catcher.  I don't know if pop time is a valued measurement or not though.  His last recorded pop time was 1.7.  I think it's easier for pitchers to get noticed.  We did a couple of showcase tournaments with a summer team.  The scouts who were there were only looking at pitchers.  It was disappointing.

If he has a legit 1.7 pop and can hit, go ahead.  1.7 stacks up pretty good. 

dialedin posted:

FFXfireman posted:

Count me a believer.

My 2018 RHP did a local PG Underclass showcase last August. There were a handful of college scouts in attendance. In the weeks following, he was invited to guest pitch at a national PG event and the emails began coming fast and furious.

It is a good vehicle to see "how you stack up" and to show what you've got. Talking to some head coaches, they like PG because there is indepenent verification of a skill (fast ball, pop time, etc) and videos.

Yes, $650 is steep, but it was well worth it to us.

Thanks for the info!  I feel like so many of these showcases are geared towards pitchers (like that's who the scouts are watching).  My son is a catcher.  I don't know if pop time is a valued measurement or not though.  His last recorded pop time was 1.7.  I think it's easier for pitchers to get noticed.  We did a couple of showcase tournaments with a summer team.  The scouts who were there were only looking at pitchers.  It was disappointing.

Well, I'm certainly not going to be able to talk to what the scouts are primarily looking at, but given the quantity of pitchers on a roster are greater than position players, I suspect you're right.

PG has the best 2017 pop time as 1.72, so if he gets the 1.7 independently verified, runs a reasonable 60 and swings a reasonable bat, he should get some attention or at least give him a link to point schools to.

 

 

PG has the best 2017 pop time as 1.72, so if he gets the 1.7 independently verified, runs a reasonable 60 and swings a reasonable bat, he should get some attention or at least give him a link to point schools to.

If he does the above the money will be well worth the results.

I have never heard of a kid with 1.7 pop time, that would make him a game changer behind the plate if he is solid in other areas. if he is under 2 and solid everywhere else it will be worth the money and effort.

Dialedin, just to clarify I know nothing, I have a 2020.  BUT, on this site I have read a few things, such as:

1. Junior year is the magic year when the recruiting starts heavily for 90%+ of the kids, if you can only do one showcase that would be the time to do it.

2. Pop times are subjective, and there is a HUGE difference in a 1.95 and 2.02 pop-time.  Considering the average human reaction time is 0.7 seconds, taking pop-times is a learned skill, prior to a showcase it's a good idea to get at least one private lesson on how to show a pop-time at a showcase. How to run a 60 would also be a good private lesson addition.

3. If your kid is only interested in 1 or 2 local colleges then a huge showcase probably isn't where you want to be.  If your kid is open for any and all ideas on college, and has a generic major that 99% of colleges offer, then a showcase is a great idea.

I agree that it seems everyone is watching the pitchers at showcases.  We have been to some affordable ones, mostly to get the feet wet.  My son is also a 2018 catcher with good skills.  Not a 1.7, but I have never seen a 1.7.  I am quickly concluding that being on the right summer team is most important for position players.  My son played up at 17u this year, and that has been helpful in getting an idea of how it works for junior year.  Not sure if we will do another showcase.  Being around families that have been there/done that, has been helpful.  Son is on an outstanding summer team starting next year.  Many D1 players, and a a couple who are being discussed as draftable.  I am excited for that opportunity.  This team has great connections and reputation.  I am hopeful that will get him seen. 

I think it's up to the family and the goals of the player. Value vs Cost or ROI. Everyone is different.

I would like to know what the numbers are for kids who attended a PG showcase or every showcase through HS that are actually playing or made a college team? The stats for transitioning to college ball from HS show a small percentage make it. Assuming all kids who go to showcases want to play at the next level, how many actually make it? We never paid to attend a showcase and things worked out, but i suspect there are loads of marginal players, as well as good players who bet on the come and lay the money down for the exposure and write ups.

We did not do a PG showcase until after my son's junior year leading into the Summer of Senior year.  I wish we had done one as a Junior because he scored well on a number of the metrics and might have gotten invited to some of the big national events and had more interest.  But that is the key--do one if you believe he will show well.  I saw some kids at the one my son attended who had no business being there (including an incoming Freshman who was completely overmatched).  But it is a good idea to get into the PG database and have a place to link in future contacts with college coaches.

My son is also a catcher and a pitcher and I would say the attention is definitely more on him as a pitcher now just because of the velocity he is showing.  If your son has a really strong arm (which that Pop time suggests) you may want to sign him up as a dual player if he can pitch at all.  My son did not pitch one inning during his HS season but knew enough to look good in the PG Showcase.  The position players who stand out and/or who hit well can get noticed.  But there are not that many opportunities to show your skills (not one kid tried to steal while my son was catching for example).

Like everything with this process, cost is definitely a factor.  But unless you have an obvious D1 player, you have to spend money to get your son exposed to college coaches.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

I think it's up to the family and the goals of the player. Value vs Cost or ROI. Everyone is different.

I would like to know what the numbers are for kids who attended a PG showcase or every showcase through HS that are actually playing or made a college team? The stats for transitioning to college ball from HS show a small percentage make it. Assuming all kids who go to showcases want to play at the next level, how many actually make it? We never paid to attend a showcase and things worked out, but i suspect there are loads of marginal players, as well as good players who bet on the come and lay the money down for the exposure and write ups.

And to add: how does attending a Showcase fit into your overall STRATEGY?? I don't see how you can make a decision on a Showcase unless you have a strategy in place.

So a couple of things.  If he gets a 1.7 pop posted from a PG event, it becomes real.  Until then, he has a time a dad says he has.  So if you believe the 1.7 is legitimate, then you can legitimize it to the rest of the recruiting world by way of PG validation at a showcase.

To your original question, ShoveIt nails it.  It's up to you.  Know that not all PG showcases are equal in the amount of exposure that he will immediately receive.  My son has done two, the PG Jr. National after his Sophomore year and the PG National this summer after his Jr. year.  Absolutely no regrets as the attention and exposure he received has been phenomenal and worth every dollar spent (each of these were also $650).  I would do both all over again, but to my point, both of these were their premier national events, probably only overshadowed by Jupiter which is really something between a tournament and a showcase in nature, where the Jr. National and National are pure showcase events.

At the other various PG showcases, you'll receive the same level of attention, coordination and management from the PG side, but you won't have as many scouts in actual attendance as you will at the previous events I've mentioned.  The write-up and database information will be the same, so what becomes available to their subscribing scout base will be legitimate there for your son.  It will also give him a true opportunity to see where his metrics stack up against his peers.  One thing that you can say for PG, most of the top 100 players in each class have PG recorded metrics posted for all to see.  Not too many other showcases can boast that.  So while you may believe your son has the best pop time in the country (or pitching velocity, or exit speed or 60 time, et al), you will know for certain if you get it logged and posted via a PG showcase.

It can open doors, but no guarantee that it will.  Remember, PG is an amateur scouting bureau.  Make no doubt, the guys evaluating at their events are scouts.  If they are impressed by your performance it will be communicated to decision makers at the professional and college level.

As ShoveIt basically states, attending their event doesn't make the player.  It provides the stage.  It's up to the player to perform.  If he does, it can be worth every penny. If he doesn't, you've got an expensive hat and jersey for the effort and a realistic snapshot of where your son stacks up.

 edit after reading JoeMktg's post.  Completely agree with him.  Whether his strategy for attending the showcase is to get unbiased metrics or in front of specific coaches, you need an overall recruiting plan to execute.  Unless the plan is to showcase and have colleges tripping over themselves to get to your son (in which case he's a stud and you already know that), develop a solid plan of which a PG or local showcase may or may not be a part.

old_school posted:

 

 

PG has the best 2017 pop time as 1.72, so if he gets the 1.7 independently verified, runs a reasonable 60 and swings a reasonable bat, he should get some attention or at least give him a link to point schools to.

If he does the above the money will be well worth the results.

I have never heard of a kid with 1.7 pop time, that would make him a game changer behind the plate if he is solid in other areas. if he is under 2 and solid everywhere else it will be worth the money and effort.

He has always been under 2.0. A slight adjustment in receiving allowed him to get it down to 1.7 but most of the time we are seeing 1.8 or 1.9. 

Thanks for the info.  This actually does help us with our decision.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Dialedin, just to clarify I know nothing, I have a 2020.  BUT, on this site I have read a few things, such as:

1. Junior year is the magic year when the recruiting starts heavily for 90%+ of the kids, if you can only do one showcase that would be the time to do it.

2. Pop times are subjective, and there is a HUGE difference in a 1.95 and 2.02 pop-time.  Considering the average human reaction time is 0.7 seconds, taking pop-times is a learned skill, prior to a showcase it's a good idea to get at least one private lesson on how to show a pop-time at a showcase. How to run a 60 would also be a good private lesson addition.

3. If your kid is only interested in 1 or 2 local colleges then a huge showcase probably isn't where you want to be.  If your kid is open for any and all ideas on college, and has a generic major that 99% of colleges offer, then a showcase is a great idea.

Any idea how we would go about finding the private lessons for showcase prep?  We have actually struggled to find a TRUE catching coach.  Some say they are but they aren't really. 

He has what I would call raw talent.  It has never been polished; he's never received any catcher specific coaching.  We've never had the money for him to play on the "top" teams where he may have had a better opportunity.  He's just always been the workhorse for the teams he's played for.  And the catcher all the pitchers wanted. 

Sounds like we need to seek out a private coach who can help him prepare for a showcase event.  

Thanks again for all the great feedback and advice. 

PS - we didn't record the 1.7.  It was recorded at a try out and reported to us. But I do know he has always been below 2.0.   We have no delusions of our kid "going pro" or of being chased by D1 schools.  We really just want to at least provide him with an opportunity to compete and thought maybe these showcases would be an option. 

A true 1.7 would put him in the top 2 or 3 guys in the MLB right now.  If he's really at that (even if it was only once), you'll be chased by plenty of D1 schools. 

dialedin posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Dialedin, just to clarify I know nothing, I have a 2020.  BUT, on this site I have read a few things, such as:

1. Junior year is the magic year when the recruiting starts heavily for 90%+ of the kids, if you can only do one showcase that would be the time to do it.

2. Pop times are subjective, and there is a HUGE difference in a 1.95 and 2.02 pop-time.  Considering the average human reaction time is 0.7 seconds, taking pop-times is a learned skill, prior to a showcase it's a good idea to get at least one private lesson on how to show a pop-time at a showcase. How to run a 60 would also be a good private lesson addition.

3. If your kid is only interested in 1 or 2 local colleges then a huge showcase probably isn't where you want to be.  If your kid is open for any and all ideas on college, and has a generic major that 99% of colleges offer, then a showcase is a great idea.

Any idea how we would go about finding the private lessons for showcase prep?  We have actually struggled to find a TRUE catching coach.  Some say they are but they aren't really. 

Your bio says you are in GA.  We have LOTS of high level travel teams here, many of those coaches give lessons at their respective academies.  I would email the academies local to you and put the question out there "Who at your academy would you recommend for showcase pop-time prep?"  Or maybe you know an older catcher that has already done this, I bet you he knows all the little tricks.

I can't find it now but there was a thread awhile ago that went into all the different ways to affect a pop-time during a showcase.  The general consensus of the thread was that there were ways to legally cheat but since the video accompanies the pop-time anyone scouting the kid can play the video and see that it wasn't a legit pop-time.  Some of the examples were that the kid was already standing, or already had his feet ready to throw rather than mimicking a secondary stance, I think one kid was even ahead of home plate when he received...like he ran for the ball. 

For the 60 time I have heard that some high school track coaches are willing to help out a baseball kid with a lesson or two on sprinting for a good showcase time.

Agreed that finding a good catching instructor is not an easy find.  I don't know if there is anything out there for preparing for a showcase as a catcher.  At the PG showcase defense evaluation, it is literally only 4-5 pitches to catch and throw down for the Pop time.  If you go to a PG showcase page, you will find links to lots of great videos with showcase tips.  There is a good one on catchers, and the scout nails it on what they are looking for on pop times.  A kid may try to cheat his position but the scout is going to know who has the legitimate Pop times, and there is video showing what the kid did on the web page.  As the one post above noted, the one thing you will truly get out of the PG showcase is a valid metric that coaches will believe and will give your son a real comparison of where he is versus other players in his class.

Beyond the showcase issue, there are a couple of "catching camps" offered at various places where over a day or two your son would learn a lot about framing, blocking, positioning for the throw, etc.  As a lifelong baseball fan, I had no idea how much is involved in being a catcher until my son switched to a catcher his Freshman year.  The Stanford Catcher/Pitcher camp offered during the Christmas Holidays was excellent--my son's catching improved significantly after that one.  That may be too far for you, but do a search and there is bound to be similar options for you closer to home. Good luck on the journey.

if he's at 1.7 or 1.8 pop Id get him to a PG event asap...$650 is a small investment compared to the dividends he'll reap with a pop like that!

I know PG has a few showcases in Dec-Feb.  These are during the NCAA "quiet period" so I don't know if any D1 coaches can be there.  Is that correct?  

PG has  a Pitcher /catcher showcase in feb in Iowa, I just got the invite, we might be going to it, my 2019 has 1.87 pop. 

We're taking a different approach when my 2021 gets a little older, and looking at a $650 PG Showcase as being a bargain compared to playing on one of the $2500 a year plus $2500 in travel expenses Travel Teams around here.   We'll play on a Travel Team that just plays in our state for $600 thank you very much, get him on a Fall Ball team that plays Varsity ball as a Freshman, and go from there, mixing in Legion Ball etc

My son (I hate referring to him as "my 2019" because it makes me feel like he was created in a petri dish and I am a caretaker) just went to the PG West National Underclass. Awesome event ran very professionally by the PG staff. The event ran like clockwork and drew in some quality players. I would venture to say this event (since it is in December) was smaller in the number of players it attracted and therefore the caliber of players may also not have been as high as at the summer PG showcases. Lots of younger players (2020s and even a 2021). No college coaches in attendance that stood out because it is the Quiet Period, and that is exactly why I chose this as my son's first PG showcase, no stress (yeah, right) and we could see where he stood amongst his peers. Now that it is over, we know where we need to focus on for the future.

Highly recommend these events.