Physical altercation between coach/player

file a complaint with the local DA, the coach assaulted the player and should be arrested.

I would not hesitate to contact that schools AD.  He represents the school.  When a coach, or player, acts in a manner that is "conduct unbecoming", it is a direct, negative reflection on the school.

If your son was not directly involved, then let the two parties work it out with the AD.

Your son was not involved. Don't get involved. If your son wants to get involved, because he witnessed it, let him! Not you.

I would advise that you keep out of it. Nothing good can come of it.

Did the coach use physical means to try and stop the player from hitting him or restrain him or did the coach start the physical altercation?

 

If he started the altercation then he should be fired as coach and probably lose his teaching job.

 

If he was trying to restrain the player then the AD needs to take a really deep look at what's going on to cause such discontent that a player feels it necessary to attack a coach.  If the coach is cause of the discontent then he loses his coaching job.

HighCheese,

 

Here’s a great chance to be a role model for your son, but there’s a lot of “ifs” that need to be answered because what you do is different depending on what that answer is.  

 

“IF” its something you witnessed, it doesn’t matter who’s kid it was or even who’s at fault. Its something that isn’t acceptable in to today’s society and to just hide from it is wrong, plus look at the message its send to your boy. Go to the authorizes, be it the principal, AD, Supt of Schools, Sheriff or whoever and demand they look into it if they haven’t. If they have, demand an explanation.

 

“IF” its something you’ve only “heard” about, you’ve got a completely different paradigm. In that case you can only go to the proper authorities and ask that they investigate and inform you of the result.

 

You have to keep in mind that even if you saw it, you may well not have all the facts, but you are entitled to an explanation. After all, your child is under that guy’s supervision. But you also must be very careful not to cast spurious charges without evidence. If you turn out to be wrong and that fellow suffers because of it, you ain’t gonna like the results.

 

But in any case, you have a duty to your child and the other children not to just hide behind the old “Its none of my business because its not my child” mantra. Not saying this is as bad as what happened at Penn State, but it sure could be. Truth is always worth standing for. How do you want your boy to remember that incident? His father making sure it was properly dealt with, or his dad acting like a coward because it wasn’t his family involved?

Didn't anyone read the OP?  Highcheese said he heard from several different players what happened but what does that mean ?
You want to do the right thing, encourage those players to go to the AD and principal.  You weren't there so you got the details second hand.  Let them call the authorities.

Ahh.. the good ol days when most would applaud the coach.

"Not saying this is as bad as what happened at Penn State, but it sure could be."

 

I'd be willing to bet it's not. Hell, I'd be willing to bet it's not even remotely close.

It's not the kids' responsibility to hold the professionals accountable.  It's the parents'. 

 

We don't have enough information to advise since the OP calls it a physical altercation with not much other explanation of what happened.  As Coach2709 points out, that could run the gamut of possibilities. 

 

However the school has a duty to investigate the incident, and they need to know that the parents are concerned.  I also think that the principal and AD owe the parents an explanation of what happened and how it was resolved.   

Unless HighCheese has a 2nd son he has not posted about, it seems  he is posting about the son he has referenced in a number of other threads,  who is being  scouted for the draft next month, and the head coach of that college program. Maybe that needs clarity right away because the program and coach in question are not  hard to identify.

Not trying to justify it but if this is true then it takes on a whole new dynamic.  A fight between two adults is different than an adult and a high school teenager.  I still stand by what I said - if coach started it then get rid of him.  If player started it then investigate to find out why players are so unhappy they are willing to fight the coach.

Coach,

I am going to take a different view. If this is about the college head coach and  I have posted on this site about my son and included 'spider fan" along the way with other clearly identifying information, then I don't post this on a message board seeking advice on "what to do.".  If I have facts or reliable information, I go directly to the Coach or AD, or both, assuming the players have not done so and won't do so. To me,if this involves the college program, this is really airing a team issue which should not be on the HSBBW..If this is the college program, there is enough posted here that the AD would have to begin an investigation immediately, possibly while looking at a suspension of the coach during that investigation.   This is important stuff because the program and coach is so clearly identified, unless the OP is referring to another son.

Not sure what to think without knowing more info.  Like others have said, was this an altercation where the coach started the fight or was he drawn into it by a kid.  I'm not saying the coach is right but if he told a kid that he was done for the day and the kid responded by first arguing and then throwing a punch then I would be less inclined to slam the coach for defending himself.  Lets face it, we all know some pretty big 17 year olds and a 220lb, 6'3 17 year old can lay a serious hurt on a 45 year old dude. 

 

Either way there is a problem here, one of a loss of control by the coach.  Whether this is completely his fault or not isn't really known.  Still, I can't imagine an altercation like this occuring where there is not at least some fault on the coaches part.  If this kid is a 'bad egg' and has been a constant problem then he should have been off the team, even if he was the most talented player on that team.  That of course is easier said than done with todays attitudes of allowing all kids to be on the team and some parent's attitudes that their kiddo can do no wrong. 

You know I didn't even think it was the college aged son.  Good pickup infielddad.
I still stand by my original statement don't get involved but seems it may be too late for that.

WOW, very disappointed in some who take the atitude of "don't get involved"....this seems to be a re-occurring problem in our society today.   There are many different levels of involvement that are very accceptbale in this situation, whether or not the OP witnessed it it was told about it by their player.  Now, I am not saying that the OP needs to march down there in person and demand immediate action. But, what is wrong with the OP simply dropping the AD an email letting them know what happened, or what they heard happened?  If it was an isolated incident then so be it, it will come out.  Chances are there are some issues within the program that need to be addressed, be it players of staff.  If everyone takes that "don't get involved" stance, it will only fester and get worse.

 

So, to the OP, get involved, don't assume that someone else brought it to light.

Lefthookdad,
If this is between a college coach and the team who are comprised of adults and can make their own decisions, then do you think it appropriate for a dad who was not there not involved with team dynamics whose player was not involved to go running to the AD or rather tell those players to go forward with what they saw?
?

 

Try to put yourself in the position of the AD who receives the email you suggest.  If you accept reports of misconduct from people who didn't witness the incident as the basis for launching an inquiry, you set yourself up to get played by every disgruntled athlete, parent, and employee associated with your program.

 

The only constructive role for the non-present parent is to encourage people who were witnesses and who can provide credible statements to go forward.

 

Agree with Infielddad that the OP should be edited to make the school, coach and player less obvious.

Lefthookdad,
If this is between a college coach and the team who are comprised of adults and can make their own decisions, then do you think it appropriate for a dad who was not there not involved with team dynamics whose player was not involved to go running to the AD or rather tell those players to go forward with what they saw?

Agreed~~these boys are adults and you didn't witness the altercation. Let the adults involved handle it. If your son doesn't want to handle it, it didn't mean that much to him.

Swamp. nobody said the AD has to launch a full out investigation, but he can, and certainly should at least ask a few question.  And in this case, it is not simply mis-conduct, according to the OP it was a physical altercation.  If it is indeed at the college level, age really has nothing to do with it, other thatn for legal definitions.  The players are not being paid, they are students, Coaches are in a position of authority over these students and there is no excuse, other than self defense, for a coach to put his hands on a student athlete.  This may very well be a case where the student athlete is at fault, not the coach...but it still needs to be looked into.

 

And yes, while the parent should encourage anyone who witnessed the incident to go forward and report what they saw, that can't always be counted on.  You can't sit on information like that...we've all seen what happens when you do.

 

Susan, I absolutely do think that it should be brought to the AD's attention...does it really matter who is the one who brings it to his attention?

 

Have you ever watched the "What Would You Do" news series?  If you have, you would realize that even in cases of Domestic Violence, in public , in broad day light, how many people thought 'it's not my business, why should I get involved' or 'I am sure someone will report, no need for me to'

 

I know you believe they are adults, and legally they are, but they are still students who have to answer to someone of authority from the institute in which they are enrolled.  There are rules that the both the players and Coaches must follow

lefthookdad,

The OP clearly states he assumes the AD knows.

What he is asking is whether he should approach the AD and tell the AD "his" feelings about the "altercation."

From the OP, we know the coach and program, it seems.

Does the AD need to know the "feelings" of a parent about the "altercation: when the parent is one who was not present?

If the AD knows, as the OP states, then this seems to be a parent with no first hand information wanting to get involved in "venting feelings" on a team and school issue.  From what is posted, there is already too much in one sense which focuses on which coach and program this is. From what is posted, this parent has nothing to offer except his "feelings" about the altercation. Would you agree there is a big difference between telling the AD first hand "facts" rather than parental "venting" of "feelings?"

TPM,

 

For anyone who’s kid isn’t on a full ride ‘ship and laying out anything from $10K to $50K a semester, plus laying out all kinds of other money for their kid to be able to attend college and play ball, don’t you think they’re entitled to question how people employed by the school conduct themselves?

When it comes to reporting, you can never "assume" anything.

 

I know the OP said the reason "why" aren't important but I think it is, but don't care to know, this is not the place to be throwing the names around, as it seem alot of you know what school and coach he is talking about.  But if the OP has a player involved in the program, the details of "why" may be part of the reason the OP has great concerns on many levels.  I believe that he has the right to approcah the AD and express his concerns.  We are not talking about every day affairs of running a program here.  I believe in staying out of a coaches business in the way he runs his team.  But I to would be concerned about a physical altercation between a coach and a player, again, details could be very important in this case and at this point I think we seem to be leaning towards the coach being at fault, which we should not assume do to lack of details.

Stats, please re-read the OP.  He clearly states he assumes the AD knows.

The OP is NOT asking whether to report the altercation. He is asking for HSBBW input on whether to tell the AD about his "feelings" about an "altercation" about which he has no information other than what he might have been told by his son or other players.

Why does the AD need to know the "feelings"of a parent who was not present? 

This should be reported.What kind of example is set if people ignore this? There were others that have seen this happen. It sends a terrible message to kids if this is ignored.

The facts should be put out there and justice should prevail.NO coach or player should have physical contact with each other.If one is acting in self defense, that changes things but does not preclude this from being reported. Does an injury have to happen before people get involved?

infield, don't you think a parent has as much vested in that program as the kid does?  Like Stats siad, unless they are footing the ride 100%, the parent is just as much a stake holder in the program, and they should be concerned about their investment(their kid) and how their investment is treated or the behavior and environemnt that their kid is in

infield, would you be surprised of the OP contacted the AD to express their concerns, only to have the AD say "Really?, this is the first I have heard anything about it."

lefthookdad, if the OP cared enough about this issue, don't you think he would be on this site clarifying the information. Without telling anyone why, he told us his assumption is the AD knows.  All the OP wants to know is should he tell the AD about his "feelings."

Do I think a parent has as much "invested" in the program as the players and coaches? Absolutely not. Stats is suggesting and your post seems to buy the idea that tuition, room/board  is for playing baseball.  Not my view at all and even if it were that "money" equates to "investment" in a college baseball team and program, it would not be the issue which controls any opinion I have on this.

If this OP told us he witnessed a physical altercation where the coach had his hands on the player and others had to intervene to separate them and he was unsure if the AD knew, that is a very, very different issue.  Stats concept of "investment" does not even enter my thinking on reporting vs. not reporting.

From some of the posts, my impression is some are visualizing the Rutgers video. We are not seeing this situation through the camera lens. If that is what was posted, that leads a very different direction.

However, we are reading about it through the words of a parent who was not present. We have no idea how close to accurate or how far from accurate the OP might be when using the words he did and he isn't helping anyone.  What is posted is very distinct and different than what the camera showed at Rutgers.

Bottom line, money is not invested to play college baseball and no parent has the emotional investment equal to a player, coach or the team.  Either way, money does not, IMO, justify this OP thinking his "feelings" should be brought forward to the AD.

 

Well I guees we need to wait for the OP to post again for some clarification.  If they can resides to the fact that they can hold out because the season is almost over, maybe the program in question isn't the place for their kid to be.

 

But, I will still stick with they have the right to voice their opinion and should, just to make sure the AD is aware and addressing the issues, good or bad

lefthookdad,

perhaps it is just because we are using a message board and sometimes words mean different things to different posters. Does the OP have a "right" to voice his "feelings" to the AD about an incident he did not observe, where the only involvement is the son as a team member? I would not agree there is a "right" to voice the feelings but I do agree the OP can make the choice to seek out the AD and the AD can make the choice to say "no."

How I would view this is as follows:

Any team member who was present and felt a physical altercation occurred which was something inappropriate  from the coaching staff or HC has a right to talk to the AD.

The team captains have a right, and probably an obligation, if a physical altercation did occur.

The assistant coaches have a right and probably an obligation if a physical altercation did occur.

The Head Coach has an obligation to speak with the AD if a physical altercation did occur.

The team trainer, manager or anyone who is part of the support team in the dugout has a right to speak to the AD.

Parents, in my view, don't have a "right." They can make a choice and I fully support the AD having the choice not to acknowledge or listen to a parent wanting to vent their "feelings."

Since the OP has posted more than once his son is ready to sign when drafted, and made those posts before this occurred, it seems like the OP is saying the son has already moved on, in a sense.

Some of the disagreement in this thread is due to the various participants attempting to answer different questions.

 

The OP asked a prudential question:  i.e., Would it be a good idea to contact the AD?  That's the question I tried to answer. 

 

Some posters have answered an ethics question:  i.e., Do I have an obligation to get involved?  I don't think this situation is at all like the "What Would You Do?" examples LHD gave because this situation was over before the OP ever heard about it.  And I don't think you have an obligation to report offenses of which you have no direct knowledge (in most situations).  If something worthy of AD action happened, it's well nigh impossible that the only way he'd find out about it is through a second hand report of a parent who wasn't there.  If this incident happened at a game in front of the whole team, coaches, support staff, and any fans with a view of the dugout, do you really think it falls on the out-of-town parent to ensure the matter gets looked into?  Doesn't that assume a pretty low standard of ethical action for a pretty large number of people?  (Qualifer:  additional information about the seriousness of the incident could change my mind.)

 

Others have answered a rights question:  i.e., Do I, as the tuition paying parent of an adult team member who witnessed something unpleasant, have the right to voice my concerns?  That answer is unambiguously yes.  Of course you do.  But as soon as you answer the rights question, you need to proceed immediately to the prudential question and ask whether venting has any practical likelihood of improving the treatment of athletes, bringing the wicked to justice, or promoting happiness and team spirit.  I think not.

I do  understand some of the responses.  LHD is a policeman, IFD son coaches college baseball.  What I don't understand is why the post.

Teams are like families, do you air your family's dirty laundry in public?  No of course not, so why would you of the team?  Unless you have your own agenda.  And why would one ever come and ask opinions on what to do, if you felt it your obligation to do so, then just do it, why do you need my opinion?  FWIW, there are very few  opinions here on something Iike this I would trust in a matter such as this.

 

And unfair for all parties involved to just give us SOME of the details.

While coaching in college I once grabbed a player by the collar.  He needed to be straightened out and the heat of the moment got the best of me.  I'm not proud of it, definitely a weak moment. Nothing ever happened but I suppose it could have escalated.

 

After the game he apologized for what set me off.  He was doing something that he knew we didn't accept. I also apologized to him and we never had another problem.

 

I suppose he could have got me reprimanded or even fired.  Instead he turned out to be one of our very best players. This same player and I are very close friends to this day.

 

I am a firm believer that most things that happen in competition are best left on the field. I suppose it would be different if an injury had occurred.  As a parent, I think if I saw this and it were my son... My first thought would be what did my son do to cause this. I suppose it would be different if this type of behavior happened all the time and with all the players.

If the AD is informed of the situation and I wasn't there all that's left is to ask my son (the player) how this is netting out. I can have an opinion. But it isn't very valid given it's based on second hand information.

 

Paying a portion of the tuition allows my son to get an education. It has nothing to do with the baseball team. I'm paying for an education, not to play baseball.

 

If my son was involved I would be talking to the AD. Had I witnessed the event but my son wasn't involved I would offer the AD testimony to what I saw. 

So honestly didnt mean to stick anybody out, or to cause any type of uproar. Lets get one thing straight, this has nothing to do with my player or,his plans for the draft.No one knows what is going to happen next month I have no idea why any of you would think it did.  In no way was there any intention of doing anything more than expressing concern to the AD, as this happened in dugout, in full view of anybody who was at field early. Which means it is not dirty laundry, didnt happen behind closed doors and I did not just hear about it, I mean hello I know the circumstances, but to me they are not important, the fact that it happened is. I was just trying to find out how people who have far more experience than i and who i know actually try help clarify things. If i had an agenda, like some are suggesting, you are A) giving me too much credit Im not that bright, B)I couldnt posssibly imagine what it would be other than I dont think a coach and player should be physically engaged. If i wanted to be subversive I could have just created a new account on here and started flaming, as has been done in the past, or called everybody under the sun yelling about the incident. I didnt provide too many details specifically because i didnt want to happen exactly what did happen, which is some felt the need to bring what they wanted to get off their chest to the discussion. I just quite simply wanted to know if you had seenphysical altercation between the coach and player would you express your concerns to the AD What if my player gets hurt when if they fall on him, is that the time that its ok to raise my concerns? It doesnt seem like that unreasonable of a question. I dont think that the fact that I have asked a question about the draft or agents has anything to do with the question here. Thank you to those who did actually take time to provide a thoughtful answer, and share how they might react. Your opinions i do appreciate Im going to try to remove this topic now. Ive just had enough 

HighCheese: Do not run from this. You have done nothing wrong. The AD should know about this and do NOT let him sweep it under the rug. I repeat my former assertion: there should never be physical contact intitiated by a player or coach at ANY level. It is called simple assault and the law addresses the subject quite clearly.

Just wanna play a thought exercise...

 

If this altercation had been between your son and his minor league manager, would you stick with your advice?

I think that is not a fair thought exercise......thats apples and oranges, your scenario involves a person being paid to play and a boss, not a student and a school staff member