Physical altercation between coach/player

I would give the team a shot at doing the right thing. If they did not, then I would hire an attorney. Professional in any category of life does not give someone free reign to break the law.The same applies to the player who has no right to assault a coach, official, GM etc.

I guess I don't see it that way.  You believe someone "assaulted" someone else...with the assaultee being your 18-year old son...you think because they're both paid its different?

 

I dunno.  I think I see it more like PGStaff.  Maybe I would report it, maybe I would not?  Coach grabbed my kids by the collar and put him against dugout wall?...I doubt I would.  Coach punches my kid?  Probably I would.

 

But one thing I've learned as I grow older and experience more and more things in life...I'm not really sure what I'd do until the situation is there in front of me.  I do like thinking about it ahead of time when my head is more clear...but still, I've had too many (good and bad) scenarios that I was surprised how I really felt when put in the moment.

Just trying to understand this... Was this an actual "assault" or something else? Also, is there a history involved here?  Without knowing why and exactly what happened it's hard to make a judgement.  

 

I know that I would not report it unless it was an actual assault.  There were others that were involved that can report it if they choose.  A parent getting involved in what happen in the dugout of a college team is a bit too much.  That's just the way I feel, whether it is right or wrong. Then again, if someone feels obligated to report it, that is their right.

 

I will say this... I know it is a different situation, but pertains to parents.  There was a very talented HS player, potential early rd draft pick and capable of playing for any college in the country.  His HS coach was very old, but well respected.  The old coach was having memory problems.  He once called this star player by the wrong name.  

 

Truth is, the old coach probably should have retired, but he loved the game and he loved kids.  Mom of the star player decided he had to go.  She actually came into my office asking me to sign a petition to get rid of the coach.  I told her I am not going to sign that and she isn't doing her son any favors.  

 

Word travels at warp speed in baseball.  The coach stayed, the star player wasn't even drafted.  He ended up at a local college. His mom actually helped her son get black balled!  The mom was very vocal, but it only ended up hurting her and her son. Let's face it, nobody is out there looking for players who have parents that are known to cause problems.  There are plenty of good players with parents that stay in the background. No coach wants a policeman parent!  After all, the next coach might be next in line.

I feel the same.  But you said it better than me.

Very true on the last part.  Very easy for all of us to say our "opinions".  i am sure many, inculding my own, may/would very if witnessing the incident in person, or even having all the details involved.

 

I think the boards have been a little slow lately on a good hot topic, looks like this one filled the need for a few to get into a good discussion...

 

Also, a good lesson learned on how each persons background contributes to their thought patterns in certain scenarios.  Personally I like that fact that we can't all agree.  There were many good points brought up during this thread and it is always good to hear differing opinions.

Nice post lefthookdad. 

I like the idea of the thought experiment.  Let me first acknowledge, I do not know what the literal definition of assault is.  Even if I did know the exact definition of assault, I have no experience applying it to the different types of physical interaction.

 

But I am a human.  I have basic perception of human interaction.  I generally recognize the joy between player and manager when they high-five or hug after a successful play or win.  I can recognize the teaching of a mentor when a base-coach puts an arm around a base-runner.  And based on what I see, I can perceive when anger is the driving force between two people in a physical altercation.

 

If I witness an altercation, any physical interaction, between a coach and a player, an ump and a coach, a player and a player, that I perceive was driven by anger; I believe I’m bound to speak up.  Let me say right from the start:  I may have completely misperceived the situation!  I’ll say it a second time:  I could be completely wrong in putting 1+1 together.  But that possibility shouldn’t prevent me from, in this case, speaking to the AD.

 

PG Staff’s story about the mother killing her son’s career shouldn’t prevent an honest conversation between two people.  I did see something.   It’s not really my responsibility to determine who’s at fault, what the consequences should be or even be informed of the final outcome, but I do believe I am bound to communicate the facts as I perceived them to the AD.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I were in the same situation I would consult my player as to what he felt I should do if I felt that I needed to speak to the AD, not necessarily lay it out on a message board.

I already know what he would tell me, let those involved take care of business.

 

 I don't expect others to agree with me, I am kid of my own person and make my own decisions based on what I think may be the right course of action.

 

One thing that I found interesting that was said, the OP wants the AD to know about the coach and the relationship with his players (that was what I got out of that), I don't think that is my place to make those assumptions unless I was in the clubhouse on a day to day basis.

 

I am not sure what is meant by pysical altercation either, who went after who?     If the coach went after the player and touched him, it is unacceptable, I think that is understood, but I am thinking same as PG, without knowing all of the details, how can one expect anyone to give an honest opinion of what course of action one would take?

 

Call the AD to talk to him/her, if that will make you feel better, but make sure that you stick to facts and not opinions, JMO.

 

 

You know when I was 18 I was a man. I got up ap 4am grabbed my 308 browning and headed to the woods. Killed a Deer, field dressed it and hauled it back to the house. Prepared the meat and cooked it. I got up at the crack of dawn all summer and headed to the tobacco fields. Primed, hoisted and carried tobacco till the son went down. Then headed over to the pond and did some cat fishing.

I had a problem I dealt with it. We played ball the same way. Our moms and dads came and watched games if they were not working. But if any of them had ever got envolved in what was going on with the team that player would have been totally humiliated. I remember being at 2nd base and a GB was hit in front of me. I took a bad read and went to 3d and the SS hosed me. My coach screams what the F were you thinking. I said I wasn't thinking that's why I'm out. He begins to say some other choice words and then my man kicked in. I got in his face and he got in mine and were about to throw down.

That night we went fishing together and we laughed about it. We were men. It was in the heat of battle. We both wanted to win. What we have today is a bunch of candy as s people who get their feelings hurt at the drop of a hat. Little boys playing a mans game and they got parents that have never allowed them to grow up. Stepping in at the drop of a hat to fix everything and protect them.

My son played in college for 5 tears counting his RS fresh year. Not one single time did I ever talk to his coaches about playing time. Getting cursed out. Getting yelled at. Or anything else. If a coach jacked him up I would have never known it. He's a man he can be a man and deal with it. If my son called me crying about a coach or an altercation I would give him a little advice. Be a man. Deal with it. Or do I need to come down there and show you how? I would expect he would say "No Pops you already showed me. I got it."

Good grief do you think this thing called college baseball is Candy Land? Everyone being sweet and nice to each other all the time? These are ultra competitive individuals who's way of life is dependent on 19-23 year olds. Do you things might get heated from time to time?

If your a parent who can't let go be prepared to have a son who can't make it without you. Get your nose out of the dug out. Tune your ears out of what's said. And watch the games. Otherwise your going to he the parent that no coach wants a piece of. And the best way to get rid of you is to get rid of your son. Harsh old school way if thinking. Yep. And my boys handle their business because of it.

Many will disagree with way of thinking. It won't hurt my feelings. You do it the way you feel is right. I did it the way I felt was right. I sleep well at night my two sons are prepared to face life. I don't have to hold their hand.

A college baseball team is put together with players assuming and/or encouraged to assume certain roles. Some are leaders, most are followers, a few are the team disciplinarians, sometimes known as "throat chokers" It sounds like the coach needed a throat choker.

 

People on teams bow up on each other all the time. If the AD got called every time that happened, that's all he or she would handle. I heard all the stories about life on and off the field. It never once crossed my mind to do anything else but listen.

Many will disagree with way of thinking

Not me.  I think you're spot on Coach May! 

I've stayed out of this because I only have a freshman HS ballplayer, but THANK YOU COACH MAY!

 

Man up boys! Man up moms and dads! You think a "physical altercation" with the coach is tough? You don't know tough. And Dad ... or Mom ... if you think something like this warrants serious consequences, I pray for our country.

 

Just think: If PGStaff had done what he did to your son -- grabbed him up by the collar -- he might've been forever banned from baseball. Who the hell wins if THAT happens??

 

GOD! I can't STAND where all this is headed. For me, I'm headed to the field to throw BP to my son.

Okay ,all of you macho coach defenders, try this scenario: 5'10" coach punches player in chest and the 6'4" 210 lb players knocks the coach out with one punch. What say you? No harm, no foul? A coach has NO reason to lay a hand on a player in anger.He is the adult and should be able to get his point across verbally. Why some of you defend this behavior defies description.

Nobody is defending this behavior - what people are saying is let the player(s) deal with this on their own.  Parents don't need to step in here and do anything except maybe give advice.

 

First, lose the macho BS talk. I'm a dad with a viewpoint. I'm also a vet who has seen what tough is and I mean what I said.

Second, I reckon in your hypothetical, the coach would get a good butt-whoopin' ... and within a few days it would be forgotten. At least that's the way I hope it would go. What would you want? Lawyers and ruined lives?

Coach2709 is correct.  No one is saying that behavior is acceptable just let the parties involved handle it.   I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

What would I want? How about civilized coaches and players? Is that unreasonable?

If a coach cannot conduct himself in a professional manner then he should resign.

Does a teacher or professor have the right to strike a student? No. The same applies to a coach. Why do some of you think coaches are above the law?

I don't see where anyone has said, coaches are above the law. 

I think that times have changed a lot since you were 18 Coach May, things that were acceptable then are not acceptable now, do I agree with that?, not neccessarily.  But, there have been many Coaches who have proven that you don't have to be that "in your face" or "hands on/physical" coach to be successful and build a winning program.

Jaggerz -- everyone WANTS "civilized" behavior 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, but as long as we have human emotions ... and especially as long as we have competitive sports ... well, people will just go on wanting. No one is above the law and that's not what I'm saying (although even "the law" sometimes withholds harsh punishment over minor incidences). I'm just trying to make the point that just because a "physical altercation" happens, it doesn't have to mean lives are destroyed forever. And that's what it sounds like you’re advocating for ... SERIOUS consequences for ANY physical altercation like this. Call in the lawyers! Call in the administrators! We had a PHYSICAL ALTERCATION!!

 

I know that's the trend nowadays, and I for one am not onboard. People make mistakes ... passion runs high in the heat of the battle ... IT HAPPENS! Sometimes the best thing to do is chill awhile. And OFTEN what happens then, is the relationship grows stronger. Your approach destroys any chance of that.

I think we should make a distinction here.

 

The scenario presented by the OP is not describing a hands-on style coaching approach, where the otherwise composed coach is loud, in-your-face and occasionally pushes players where they're supposed to be...these types of guys are scarce but not necessarily out of touch. Many are effective coaches and well-respected.

 

As I read the OP, we're talking about a coach who lost control and physically threatened/accosted a player out of anger on the field of play. There's no room for those kind of people in high school or collegiate sports. Besides, in this day and age, it's just plain stupid to do such a thing, and I do not want stupid people leading my program.

 

For those of you who defended this guy...what if he does it again and hurts somebody? If he's done it once, he's capable of doing it again. One step further: what type of liability does the school burden itself with if it is aware of his behavior, continues to employ him and he blows his top again?

 

No thanks. There are lots of excellent coaches out there who do their jobs well without having to assault their players.

So we’re all in agreement?  (NOTE:  OP does not include level of program.  The name of this website is High School Baseball Web (14YO to 18YO), but it appears that other posters are aware that OP is talking about a college program (19YO to 23YO)? )

 

1)      If no physical altercation:  Stay out! 

2)      If, for example, you witness a physical altercation that includes repeated punching, two handed shoves to the ground, kicks to the head, body blows with bats: Please report.  If the ‘physical altercation’ is still in progress:  Possibly – only possibly – step in to prevent further injury.   Regardless of who is beating who, it would seem the gentlemanly thing to do.

3)      If you witness ‘something’ that it’s in some grey zone;  maybe ‘incidental contact’, a bodily gesture leaned into, or even an illusion of your vantage point, you could:

I’m trying to be tongue-in-cheek.  I think the OP has been presented with a nice diversity of advice.  I’m a little less sure anything here is evidence of permanent moral decay.  I do want to go on record saying:  PG Staff & Coach May are true treasures on this site.  There are others also, but Coach May is a true wordsmith with deep knowledge and heartfelt personal anecdotes, and PG Staff length of time in the game added to his current position at the cutting edge of baseball evolution make any input they have invaluable.

I see a lot of advice for something that to me is still pretty nebulous.  I am still not sure whether this player is in HS or college.  Do we know he's in college, or are we assuming because the OP said he may be drafted this year?  I'm not sure.  Also, there is quite a wide range of meanings for "physical altercation".  It could be the kid went off and tried to hit the coach.  The coach protected himself or tried to restrain the kid from hitting him.  Or it could be the coach got pi$$ed and started hitting the kid.  None of this has been clarified to any degree. 

 

I think just because things got physical in a general sense does not automatically mean that coach gets reported and fired.  First thing I would do is ask my son what the heck happened.  It would take a LOT for me to get involved and do anything at all.  If I thought the coach was dangerous, maybe.  If it was an isolated incident, not my business.  Sometimes things happen with good people.  Without a total understanding of what happened, its hard to say.  Even with that understanding, without being there, its hard to say.

This is very amusing, there are some here that completely missed what was stated.

 

In fairness to the OP he stated that he was under the assumption that the AD had already been informed, but what he wanted to speak to AD about was that the HC was having issues with several players. He asked if he should mind his own business to which we can see has gotten several answers as to opinions. 

 

For those that read too much into Coach May's post, what a shame, he never stated it was ok (altercation) what he did refer to and does frequently is, as a parent or grandparent, STAY OUT OF THE TEAM'S BUSINESS as well as your players.

Is that too hard to understand?

 

This is a tough game, and believe it or not, the tougher the program the tougher the coach.  There are going to be times when one player  or maybe the whole team will dislike the coach for one reason or another. 

 

I'm in a hurry so I have to be brief.

 

1.  nobody (in what I've been able to read) is defending a coach attackihng a player

2.  we have no idea exactly what this altercation was - shirt grabbing, swelling up, actual punchs thrown / hit

3.  Coach May is not endorsing this behavior - he's saying (please correct me if I'm wrong) let the players learn to deal with this.  It's their life but if you didn't do your job when they were younger they will struggle now

 

I'm going to go watch our team play now.  It stinks not coaching anymore now that I'm AD.

"....the Head Coach got into a physical altercation with a player-not mine- in the dugout in front of the team and had to be seperated..."

 

So one or more of the team/staff felt it was necessary to physically separate these two...i.e. break up a fight.

 

Seems there are those who look upon coaches with unconditional positive regard. I'm not one of them. There are great coaches, good coaches and bad coaches. This sounds like a bad coach who may also be a criminal. You get in a physical confrontation with a kid, then you have no business whatsoever being in that dugout.

 

If the kid did something egregious enough, then suspend him. Kick him off the field. Hell, kick him off the team. But fight him? Seriously?

 

This game makes us crazy sometimes, but it should never get to the point where we give a pass to something like this.

infielddad, your point is a valid one. I didn't realize that the coach had been identified or even at what level he coaches. Was something deleted/edited?

Tribe, you did nothing wrong.  I am only reacting, firmly, with the OP because there are some who know exactly which program and coach is identified.Even for those who don't know, a bit or searching on the site will provide the answer.

The name has not been deleted but the reference to the school Mascot in the OP along with the draft questions posed and past posts indeed identify the school, program and unfortunately the head coach.

That's unfortunate, both for the coach and the player.

 

My position hasn't changed, but disclosing the name(s) of the parties involved (even indirectly) is wrong and complicates things. Yikes.

I'm with you Tribe.  I originally thought it was concerning a HS coach.  I realize there is only a small gap between HS and college ages, but my thoughts do differ with the two age groups.  I'm sorry the coach is identifiable (if not by me) because whatever happens or doesn't happen should take place in his real life world and not on a board where he isn't a participant.