Pitch Count

I think your theory definitely applies to some calls on the bases. I officiated football for many years and we kept a little more distance--partly for self-preservation, partly for perspective--than we do as umpires.  I find that the positions I'm trained to be in on the base paths sometimes put me too close to the action, with the play filling up too much of my field of vision. Sometimes, it's good to be right there and see exactly when and where the tag is applied, but sometimes there's too much big movement in the field of vision. I think a banger at first is the play where the dad in the stands is most likely to be right when he disagrees.

I'll have to think about the application of your theory to balls and strikes. I tend to believe that having my face right in the zone is the best way to avoid paralax error and to see whether a non-straight, dropping ball nicks or just misses a corner. 

The above was for sub-varsity. Somehow the varsity counts didn't copy correctly. They are as follows:

Pitches:          Required rest:

86-110          3 days

61-85          2 days

36-60          1 day

1-35          0 days

I just proposed a rule change at the Texas UIL website.  I recommended that Texas adopt Colorado pitch count rule, which I quoted. 

For comparison, the GA rule is no more than 10 innings in a day or 14 innings in any 4 days.

Personally, I think the mandates are poorly thought out if not down right stupid.

Exhibit A:It's broken down by level of play. This year I have 14 yo and 17 yo on JV. They are physically capable of throwing the same amount and needing the same rest? Makes no sense.

Exhibit B: My Varsity Ace could throw 110 pitches on Monday and come back and do it again on Friday? That's healthy?

Exhibit C: I could throw 35 pitches (say 3 innings) to close a game on Friday, come back and throw 25 more on Saturday? Throwing on consecutive days in HS is never smart.

It's not safety, it's politics. They'll look for the easiest to implement policy whether or not it truly benefits kids. That way if some one's elbow blows up they can't point to their policy and say they tried. 

Educating parents and coaches is all that will matter. And not believing a varsity win is the end all-be all for happiness in life.

But this points out a real enforcement problem as well.  Now we have to check the ages of the pitchers?  We have a 14/15 yo stud pitching with the 18/19 year olds on varsity.  I can just see the falsified birth certificates now.   

Here are my thoughts. Any pitch limits should be for the sole purpose of heading off extreme cases. It should be the very least restrictive which still meets that goal. As you suggest, much of this still rests with coaches and parents who need to educate themselves on how to evaluate pitchers. This is one problem I have with pitch count limitations. Coaches tend to lean on them rather than to think for themselves.

One problem with these rules at the high school level is with small schools. We have schools in our area with less than 40 people enrolled in the entire 9-12 high school. They have a hard time coming up with enough pitching to meet the new requirements. Not that that should be an overriding factor, but maybe one for not making them overly restrictive at levels where very few, if any, kids will be pitching past high school.

ironhorse,

I agree with your thinking, especially the part about educating parents of pitchers and the over importance of winning a game.

Are you familiar with the PitchSmart guidelines from MLB and USA Baseball?  If so, what are your thoughts?

I like them overall. I think they're very good guidelines that a lot of people may not think of as it goes beyond simple pitch count and rest. That's more of the education that we need I think.

Same thoughts on the pitch count and rest guidelines, but I like everything else. I like that it emphasizes fastball and change up before breaking stuff, and I know it's not an advocate of year-round baseball, which I think is good. And the not catching and pitching piece is good, too. 

Simply put, pitch counts are the easiest to enforce. 

Trying to depend upon coaches to factor other variables in is asking for non-compliance. 

It will prevent a coach from throwing a kid 66 P.C. on Tuesday, throwing him 22 P.C. on Wednesday, and trying to start the same pitcher on a Friday (this happened with my son).  I talked with a local fellow whose high school 1st place team's ace is probably going to have to get surgery for his elbow. 

Originally Posted by roothog66:Here are my thoughts. Any pitch limits should be for the sole purpose of heading off extreme cases. It should be the very least restrictive which still meets that goal. As you suggest, much of this still rests with coaches and parents who need to educate themselves on how to evaluate pitchers. This is one problem I have with pitch count limitations. Coaches tend to lean on them rather than to think for themselves.

One problem with these rules at the high school level is with small schools. We have schools in our area with less than 40 people enrolled in the entire 9-12 high school. They have a hard time coming up with enough pitching to meet the new requirements. Not that that should be an overriding factor, but maybe one for not making them overly restrictive at levels where very few, if any, kids will be pitching past high school.

I’m sorry, but that’s the same “We don’t have enough pitchers” thing I’ve heard at every level, and I don’t buy it. If you can field 9 players with 3 on the bench, that’s 12 possible pitchers! Run ‘em out there and let ‘em try! So what if they get their socks knocked off or can’t throw a strike? The 10 run rule will stop the carnage eventually, and you’ve got 12 guys to give it a go.

This year our team is a glaring example of really horrible pitching, but we’ve played 24 and will play our last 2 next week. Our problem isn’t having pitchers though. We have 9 who have pitched in games this season. If our record was any better than 3-21, then I’d likely feel a bit different, but the way things are right now what could it possibly hurt to give more arms more opportunities? We’ve lost 12 in a row with 8 of those being mercies, so how much worse could it possibly be?

I’m not saying to stop pitching the Srs, but I am saying we could have cut their percentage of innings from almost 59% to maybe 35%. That’s another 35 innings or so of experience that in this particular case is wasted. It’s just that to me winning isn’t such a big deal. Being competitive is, but when your team isn’t competitive, why ride a horse into the ground?

Here is what I dont get.  Why are only a few kids able to pitch these days?  When son was in HS, he was really the only pitcher only, for two seasons only, because it was pretty clear he was going to go to a big program or be drafted. So they pretty much watched his pc.  Once he signed he also played first and hit as well.

But we had a lot of guys who could pitch and a chance to contribute to help the team when needed.  We had one infielder who threw so hard (not always accurately), that hitters backed off the plate.

So Stats brings up a good point, let the players try a hand at pitching, this definetly will help overuse at the HS level.

JMO