Plano West 4, Jesuit 1 (F) Huber 14 Ks, 119 pitches

Is this a final in another 1 game flip series... I mean game? I wonder what would have happened in a series similar to what most other teams are getting to play this weekend? We'll never know! All we can do is wish good luck in the next game and pre-game flipping festivities as teams move on! Are we allowed to attend the flipping ceremonies? I think I wouldn't mind seeing those in action. We could all meet at a "neutral site" and watch all of the coaches go at it. We could post results on the jumbo-tron and cheer together... kind of like at a game. Afterall these ceremonies can sometimes represent up to 2 games worth of tickets, concessions, and gas money to the games.

And before anyone goes crazy about my sarcasm... trust me... I'm not negative against PW here... just against the system that the UIL has to fix!
Good luck to our local teams including PW as they move on!!!!!

Obvious ur kid plays for jesuit!!

Nope. Wrong! I am truely just interested in the reform and just point out the insanity of the system in place. As apparently are our local newspapers! I feel for every coach, player, school, family that has to deal with this farce of a system the UIL has in place. I often wonder... do they have to flip to see who gets to flip the coin? Can they flip to see if it is a best of one flip or a best of two out of three flips. It is a farce of comical proportions!

quote:

Originally posted by over the wall:
Obvious ur kid plays for jesuit!!

DFW,

If you attended the game, the better team won. No 2-3 series would changes that fact. PW play vs FM and Jesuit blows away the "theory" that teams choose 1 games series because there is some perceived weakness. However, it could be in some cases like Smith vs Heath, but not in this case.

Some teams actually choose the 1 gamer because they have a better pitcher and better bats. That has been proven over the last week. Only a extremely biased parent/fan could rationalize what happened to their teams.

quote:

Originally posted by hornsr1:
DFW,

If you attended the game, the better team won. No 2-3 series would changes that fact. PW play vs FM and Jesuit blows away the "theory" that teams choose 1 games series because there is some perceived weakness. However, it could be in some cases like Smith vs Heath, but not in this case.

Some teams actually choose the 1 gamer because they have a better pitcher and better bats. That has been proven over the last week. Only a extremely biased parent/fan could rationalize what happened to their teams.

Wrong, people choose 1 game because they only have 1 good pitcher. thats why PW wanted 1 game that was there only chance.

I have no problem with who won and who the better team is or is not. Just want the system reformed so it is equal for all teams and gives the correct advantage to the higher seed in the early rounds as it should be.

quote:

Originally posted by hornsr1:
DFW,

If you attended the game, the better team won. No 2-3 series would changes that fact. PW play vs FM and Jesuit blows away the "theory" that teams choose 1 games series because there is some perceived weakness. However, it could be in some cases like Smith vs Heath, but not in this case.

Some teams actually choose the 1 gamer because they have a better pitcher and better bats. That has been proven over the last week. Only a extremely biased parent/fan could rationalize what happened to their teams.

DFW... don't worry... Just take into consideration who the other poster is...

Actually Panther Fan PW has 2 good pitchers Huber as you saw last night he's going to Duke and they have Andrew Blum who is going to Richmond another D1 program so I think they did that because they knew Huber has been really throwing well and knew that if he threw like he had been then the result would be in they're favor as it showed last night.

And the Poo Poo begins. 2 good teams met, 1 team won, but that ain't good enough. Got to add more poo poo to make it interesting I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Spurlin6:
Actually Panther Fan PW has 2 good pitchers Huber as you saw last night he's going to Duke and they have Andrew Blum who is going to Richmond another D1 program so I think they did that because they knew Huber has been really throwing well and knew that if he threw like he had been then the result would be in they're favor as it showed last night.

Your right I spoke out of line they do have more then one good pitcher. but I still beleave thats the reason teams pick one game.
Why else would a team just want one?

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Fan:

quote:

Originally posted by Spurlin6:
Actually Panther Fan PW has 2 good pitchers Huber as you saw last night he's going to Duke and they have Andrew Blum who is going to Richmond another D1 program so I think they did that because they knew Huber has been really throwing well and knew that if he threw like he had been then the result would be in they're favor as it showed last night.

Your right I spoke out of line they do have more then one good pitcher. but I still beleave thats the reason teams pick one game.
Why else would a team just want one?

So the coaches can sit back all weekend and watch the mentally challenged at their craft.

I think you guys are way off base here, I heard Coach Clark was given great Byron Nelson tickets from Kiser and wanted to be sure and see Friday-Sunday.

I have to agree with Robert S. Plus it saves on his weekly Chick-fil-a bill.

You know in Oklahoma and New Mexico they only play one game series, they have no choice. And before you go and say well that is Blah, Blah, Blah. Just thought I would bring it up.

Because I like to hear ya'll whine like little pigs going to the smoke house. Sometimes the coaches flip to see how much the hot dogs and candy bars are going to cost. You know why? Because they can.

Being upfront I was for Jesuit, and I think one game series do play slightly unfairly; however, who can blame PW for wanting one? They are a dang good team and the one game only needing their best pitcher to throw is what they felt like gave them the best chance to win. Teams that want one game aren't necessarily saying they only have one good pitcher, but are saying our number 1 is better than yours. And they were right.

However, I don't think you can say PW would've won in a 3 game in certainty. Look at the HP-Mckinney North series when Kershaw was at HP. HP I think runruled North the first game and then North won the next two (granted it saved its two best pitchers to not go against Kershaw). PW could get extremely lucky and play 1 gamers the entire way... but having only one pitcher with important innings this playoff season won't get them very far at State. I'm sure the coaches are using the, "gotta get there to have a chance anyway" logic.

Good season Jesuit, and in light of the recent events surrounding the school community, those boys competed well.

DT,

Great game last night and I was impressed with Freimuth. FYI, PW has (2) D1 pitchers, plus a fresh 6 '8 pitcher who is chomping at the bit to pitch. Plus another 2-3 guys. PW does have pitching, but if you have a dominant pitcher, very good bats and experience of a State Championship under your belt (4 kids played and started on that 08 team), it makes sense, in this instance, to play a (1) gamer.

Great season for Jesuit and I respect their hustle and intensity. They will do well in the future.

Beast - Okalahoma plays a double elimination tournament format.

Chief
My bad. I should've said they don't play 2 out of 3.
But isn't double elimination kinda like a one game.

Texas wouldn't want to do what Oklahoma does anyway, even if it were better.

No Beast DOUBLE elimianation means you have to loose 2 games not just 1 game(single elimination). In fact a 2 out of 3 series is double elimination, just not in a tournament format.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief Nocahoma: No Beast DOUBLE elimianation means you have to loose 2 games not just 1 game(single elimination).In fact a 2 out of 3 series is double elimination, just not in a tournament format.

But you might lose both of those games to 2 different teams, right. So would that still be like a one game or a 2 out of 3 in double elimination not in tournament form or would that be like a 2 out of 3 in tournament form.

Chief,

OSSAA rules: Class 6A is the top 32 biggest schools. They have 4,8 team regionals which are double elimination. Top 2 teams make it to state (16 teams total). Teams are divided into 2 8 team double elimination brackets. The winners of each bracket then play a SINGLE game to determine the champion. Not sure why they make it a single after playing Double elimination up to that point.

OK 6A bracket

Chief
If you look at the bracket, Owasso did beat Jenks 2 out of 3, but they played Norman North before there last 2 games with Jenks. I think thats the way Texas ought to do it. Have a one game with double elimination and 2 out of 3 with a single game for the Ship.
And I think they should only allow the pitchers to throw 85 pitches every 4 days.

the UIL did change to the 1-game option that you have to win a flip for it... and most times they don't flip a coin.. the football model _ usually done over phone _ is the zip code game...

one coach picks a hs town .. usually obscure ... and the other coach picks an odd or even zip code...

most baseball guys like the 2 of 3.. but i agree with nocahomer.. whenever two good teams play and one loses, there's talk of alternatives...

jesuit was without best player and a junior athlete died this week (investigation of suicide) and that's a huge issue if you've ever been around a situation like that...

regardless, the only person who could be surprised that plano west won in a 1 or 2-of-3, is the umpire who was sure josh hamilton hit a double

Once Texas gets it down to four teams it is sinle elimination, sort of like Oklahoma I guess.

In Florida, it's a single game matchup per week from district on until final 4 then its a Friday semi and Saturday final. So you have to have all your eggs in a basket during your district because only the #1 gets to go to the playoffs.

The one game series is a complete joke in a sport like baseball.

There's nothing fair or even logical about it. And quite frankly, it makes a mockery of the playoffs.

If you're trying to find the best TEAM, which is what it's supposed to be about, you have to play a series.

One game playoff formats work great for other sports. In football, you're going to find the better team wins more often than not. If Texas played Baylor 100 times last season, they would have won probably 98 of them or more.

In baseball, the game can revolve around 1 player (obviously the pitcher). Now, with baseball being a TEAM sport, why let one player determine who the best TEAM is?

For example, imagine this hypothetical situation. Imagine Heath was playing South Oak Cliff this weekend in the playoffs and SOC won the toss. They chose a one game playoff because they have a top 10 pick for a pitcher.

SOC has a record of 15-15 on the year while Heath is undefeated and ranked number 1 in the country.

SOC wins 1-0 in 10 innings on a walkoff HR. SOC's pitcher throws a CG with 20 k's.

Can you honestly say that that is even remotely fair?

You might as well have the two pitchers meet up in a batting cage somewhere to pitch and hit against themselves. The one game takes the team aspect out of the equation.

Sizzle.

If the bats are better than the other team and the pitcher is better, than 1 games series do make sense. It rest your pitchers for the long road.

Your scenario is very flawed and most likely would not happen.A mediocre team can get lucky in a 2-3, just ask the Woodlands or Bellaire and on and on.

In NT, the best TEAM has won in most of the 1 game series and it was proven on the field.

Jesuit is better than West. Sorry.

Again, I say why let one player have so much influence?

This is high school baseball. Even more of a reason to have a series just in case the other team has a top flight MLB calibur arm.

Even the best high school teams in the country will have problems hitting a top flight draftable arm because most of them will be outclassed by the pitcher.

The team might as well hop on the bus to go play the Roughriders.

And honestly, if a team gets "lucky" and wins a best 2/3 series, then tip your hats to them.

If a team "lucks out" to win 2 of 3, then they obviously lucked out in one of them making the one game playoff flawed.

Any team can get lucky one time. Make that team beat the other twice. You take alot of the "lucking" out of the equation.

And my logic makes perfect sense. Especially in 5A youre going to run into many inferior teams that just so happen to have a very top flight arm.

Hell go back to district 9-5A circa 2003-04. Rockwall won the district and was the best team in that district by far. They had something like 10+ division 1 players on that team and still lost 5 or so times in district.

-McKinney was a mediocre team but had Adam Miller who was a first round pick.
-Allen was a good team with a stellar arm in Shawn Tolleson who is now at Baylor. Allen also had Brad Furnish in 2003 who was a top draft pick.
-Plano East was a great squad with Jake Arrieta on the mound. They were definately beatable without him on the mound.

There were other teams in that district with very good pitching among their number 1 arms.

Rockwall had the deppest staff (4 division 1 arms) and was the best team. However, the best 4 arms in the league were not at Rockwall. Rockwall lost alot of those games against those other good arms but were by far a better team.

My whole point is, you can't judge a team off one game because a decent team can beat a GREAT team if the decent team has a superior game 1 starter.

In a series, the GREAT team will win a series more often than not.

And the whole point is to find a state champion. A state championship team will win a series. They can be very vulnerable in a one game however.

I don't know if Sizzle is biased, but he is right. hornsr1 is biased, and also wrong.

In many, many series in 5A this year, the loser of the first game has gone on to win a best of 3. If the weaker team can get lucky and win a best of 3, as hornsr1 suggests, then of course it is more likely that the weaker team can win a single game.

I really don't know if PW is really better than Flower Mound or Jesuit. I do know this--the PW coach doesn't think so--he was unwilling to play either team in a best of 3. He thought he could win with his best pitcher on the mound--he didn't think he would win if forced to go deeper into the roster against those teams.

VOR,

Obviously, you didn't watch either game. The best TEAM won both games, plain and simple. Better bats and better pitching. Don't think the PW coach was scared of either, played FM twice this year and didn't lose and have played Jesuit 5 times over the last couple of years and won 4 of 5, same players, same pitchers.

No answer for that.

If you want to go one game you're admitting you have the inferior team (at least inferior pitching). If you can't see this you have lost all credibility (not that you had any).

hornsr1

I didn't see either game, and I don't doubt that PW was the better team in those particular games. i don't acknowledge that this automatically makes them the better team overall.

i have been reading your posts here for the last few years, and I truly do get it--PW is the best team ever, and only loses when they "lack focus" or are "disinterested," or when they throw JV pitchers. When they win, it proves that they are the better team. I have yet to ever see you acknowledge that a team that beats PW was better. How about all of their district losses this year--were they to better teams?

And what is this about pointing out that PW has won 4 of the last 5 from Jesuit--according to you multiple game series aren't any more meaningful than a one game series.

I repeat what I said earlier--your own coach thought his chances against Flower Mound and Jesuit were better if he played one game as opposed to three--why did he think that? I submit that it's because he felt that the other team was more likely to win a 3 game series than PW was.

Have to agree for the most part with hornsr1, PW was the best team last Thursday. Jesuit had their chances, but came up short each time. Down 3-1, Jesuit gets a man on second with no outs and Huber K's the next three. Manufacture a run and it's 3-2 with two outs. In other innings Jesuits produces some baserunners only to have Roberson throws them out trying to swipe second. Was it his footwork and arm or their jump and footspeed and/or Huber's quick delivery to home? Probably a little of all three.

Great game to watch. Loved seeing how both teams competed. Both coaching staffs seemed like class acts, lots of positive encouragement from the boxes and on the bench.

VOR,

LOL, so you know what PW coaches were thinking?? Sour grapes! I have acknowledged plenty of times that other team had good players etc.. If a team was better, I would say so, obviously you can't,

You stated you didn't attend either game, so you can't comment on if PW was or was not the better team or what their strategy was or was not.

All I know is that PW faced the #1 and #2 pitcher for both teams and still won both games, so who is to say that wouldn't have beaten them in 3. If you watched the games you would understand.

I never said that PW was the best team ever, they have a lot of flaws and they have battled extreme internal adversity this year, but this Senior class at PW has had a tremendous amount of success, just look at their record, titles whatever. Even though I no longer have kids playing, these kids have been fun to watch.

PW may go out this week and lose, it happens. If so, then Coronado outplayed PW and congrats to them if they pull it off.

Good luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:
If you want to go one game you're admitting you have the inferior team (at least inferior pitching). If you can't see this you have lost all credibility (not that you had any).

I still like my point.

spoken like a true "loser", LMAO

no coach flips for 1 game for the heck of it. Its because his pitching drops off after the #1. I've always had the argument that if you are a district champion or higher seed even you should have the right to play 2 out of 3 if you want. The way it is the PW coach is using this strategy to try and get to the tournament. **** every team wants that..Can't fault him even if its a bad system.

quote:

Originally posted by hornsr1:
spoken like a true "loser", LMAO

Good rebuttal. Hey, didn't Plano West win state in 2008?