Plate Umpire positioning

Hello,

   I am a Young Umpire 19, and through my connections and skill of 15 years of baseball, became a Umpire. I texhnicallt started when i was about 16 for my local park league...so to speak. But noticing how serious I was abor umping, i didnt fit in and was criticized in a way believe it or not.  So with the help of a fellow umpire, I started umpiring summer-ball (pony) (Ages 15-18) ($35) as well as Umpiring Fastpitch Tournaments. (Ages 10-18) (And for those who have experienced Fastpitch Tournaments...You know Its a treat) (Many *serious* & *good* teams pay/sign up to compete through a whole weekened, And the pay is between $210- $420 and even up to $700 on the bigger tournaments) And No Highschool Umpiring for Im a full time College Student.

But, none the less when I stared Umping all of this, I was only 17 believe it or not. I also was nominated by the coaches over many other umpires (18) to do the Umpire the playoffs (for Pony).  Mainly from their experiences with my Plate calling.  I am very accurate In my opinion and as well as to most.  The catchers even agree, and the coaches love me.  From all this, (not trying to sound cocky I promise lol) You could hopefully believe that I take Umpiring very serious and am very good at it and of course I extremely Enjoy it. But obtaining to the argument, all of this was done with me not using The “slot”. My head was always ether over the the catcher, (which was rare because I’m not to tall...or on his right shoulder. The only time I was in the Slot was when the catcher lined up way outside.  And this worked GREAT for me for the last couple years. And if this from the results of how people (parents, coaches, fellow umpires etc.) reaches to my Umpiring skills...all while knowing that I’m a younger Umpire (compared to the rest) and how younger umpires reputations usually slack and or are bad)  

BUT...a few tournaments ago.  Something unfortunate happened...in a way. I was critiqued by a “Expericed Umprire”. And HOLD ON. Lol.  It’s not unfortunate that I critiqued... but this so called “Professional and experienced” umpires critiqued me mid game In Front of everyone. This game was the “semi-final” game keep in mind.  And there was a controversial play on “blocking the plate” before hand which didn’t help my case. So when they heard him critiquing Me mid game, this made me look extremely rookie. What was he critiquing me about?  The Slot... He noticed where I was lining up and of course after the game...he didn’t explain anything To me   BECAUSE HE DID IT MID GAME Lol   Nonetheless... Here’s what I think about this...

And it’s very simple to an Extent. I believe the way I do it works for me...100%, better than the slot. And before you close your mind off to being changed, please...hear me out. There are many Things in life that are “1 wayed” so to speak with only one option that is the best.  And when doing any other option,  don’t expect to have equal to even better results. Some examples will be (in baseball terms throwing over hand... Throwing side arm is not the efficient way of throwing. Accuracy, speed, and even health all drops  when doing so.  So there’s only 1 way to do this for the “Best” outcome. Another example would be chopsticks for Chinese food/restaurant. Yea it’s proper/“Standard”, but A fork is much more efficient/easiest and the best way to do it, No arguement. And there are many other example that even can be given in a moral sense.  One that’s a little far fetched but true is Racism.  Was Racism/Discrimiantion a normal, acceptable, and expected  “Standard “.  Yes it was but things changed.  

So overall what is my overall thought on this argument? Someone made a good point above that missing a call an inch outside is easier to foul off then missing a call an inch inside and fouling that off.  And yes that is a good argument.  Of course another one is that being in the slot, guarantees that inside corner and even seeing the knees to be able to get the lower strike zone. But I feel that argument only obtains to Unpires that are tall and perhaps even line up in the middle behind the catcher where you can’t see the low strikes/Balls.  But where I stand is the essentially the “opposite” of the “Slot” so I see the guaranteed outside corner and can see the inside corner in the same way “slot” users would see he outside corner. The only reason why I favor this more is because 90% of pitches are in the outside corner. And I think that out weighs the whole “Inside pitches” argument. And I can also see he beaters front knee to have an idea for my lowest strike zone. And even so...say I wasn’t given his knee. When he’s in the box, (before the picture has started his motion  I would gain a sense of his height (his knees and his stern’m) to have the appropriate “strike zone”. But nonetheless, I see his knee and his chest, the outside corner which is 90% of pitches, and the inside corner from an angle.  

And Although this works GREAT for me and I would recommend this to anyone and everyone m, I am a intelligent person (I would like to think lol) and know that there is a professional standard, whether it might change or not.  And if In the minds of people feel that that’s what you need to qualify yourself for promotion to higher levels... that is what you must do to achieve that.  Otherswise, you should expect criticism by people who (for the most part jumped on the bandwagon) by people who were taught and feel this way is best. I would love to continue to talk about this though, on here or by Email. And I appreciate anyone who has read all of this lol. 

Email: DomGainey@gmail.com

-Thanks 

I agree wholeheartedly with this young gentlemen. I feel that I see the outside corner much better when working to the outside of the catcher. In addition ...I'd go one step further and say 95% of pitches are thrown to the outside of the plate...because most pitchers do not want to hit the batter...especially in H.S. and lower. Pitchers are usually very concerned with their control...if they pitch insisde they are concerned they will hit the batter. I feel much more comfortable setting up off the outside shoulder of the catcher...it gives me a better look at most pitches in the game.

Absolutey on everything you just said lol. 

95% and all haha. but I feel what most people over look is the fact that you don’t just get a better look doing that...but you get a *100%* line up on whether that ball crossed the corner or not. For MLB or perhaps College Baseball... the foul ball argument may be valid... I’m not gonna say 100% because I not a MLB Umpire but having control of he inside game at the speed and accuracy/skill level is a deadly advantage and blowing a call there is a big deal compared to the outside plate where you can foul off...this might...be better.  But universally...thats not the ideal situation Baseball/Softball ages 12-18 or even College softball is what’s ideal for normal Umpires.

MLB and college baseball and honestly even college softball is where the line is drawn by society where no matter what.. you pretty much need too abide by the rules, and be “professional”.

With practice, you can call an all-around consistent zone from the slot. From directly behind the catcher, you're going to have trouble remaining consistent on your low pitches. From the outside, you lose everything as you have no reference points whatsoever. If you're having trouble in the slot, you're probably too deep and/or too high.

However, accuracy isn't the most important reason to use the slot. It's safety. Sharp fouls and missed pitches distribute themselves more outside than in. Going anywhere from the catcher's head to the outside is opening yourself up to more forceful, concussion-producing hits, and more of them.

I get where your coming from but I want to point out a few things. 

For one, There’s a difference between consistency, and a right/wrong call.  I agree that for peope lining up over the catcher...yes   Your lower strike zone will most likely be inconsistent. But that is usually only the case when you have a “big/tall” catcher. Given most catchers are smaller ages 12-18 and even smaller when they get in position. His ant usually the case. So the lower stikezone argument is invalid. And for what you said about the outside line up...?  What do you mean we have “no reference points whatsoever”. I have perfect reference point in my eyes. I don’t struggle one bit, and the word used the most with me is that I’m very Consistent..  When the batter steps up to the plate. You look at them while they’re in the box. (Not in there stance, and you see where there zone or “box” is. Which is determined on where the stern’m and knees are. And we can see this not only before they step in the box but if you want to make he arguement that you need to see the ball and then look at there knees/stern’m after the ball comes in.....then.....idk what to tell you.  If you need to do that...your probably not a efficient Umpire.  After 15 years of baseball (being a catcher especially) and 4 years of Umpiring, Ik a Players Strikezone.

so again, I’m confused You saying we have no reference points. I can see here knees and Stern’m from the outside. And even if I couldn’t for whatever reason.  I know what there Strikezone is up and down. And of course the ball crossing the plate outside is 100% seen and the inside is just as equal as the “slot” user with outside pitches.  If that makes sense. 

At the End of the day.  I’d rather see the outside of the plate (“95%” of pitches) And get those 100% correct and get the low/high pitches 98% correct instead of the opposite....Inside/ High & low (30% of pitches) 100% correct. And blow the outside pitches.

Because guess...what from the slot...if the ball *barely nipped the plate*by less than a inch*  you honestly couldn’t tell me if it did or not. But I could😉

Hell im sure you watch MLB games or virtually any other games...How terrible does the ump look when he calls outside pitches (balls) a  Strike? Am I right? Lol

After watching a bunch of college games this spring....my son is a pitcher and a DH, it seems to me that the guys who line up in the slot are drastically more inconsistent than the guys who don't.  My son agrees.  He says he knows the minute the ump lines up for the first pitch of the game that if he's in the slot that he's not going to be happy with the pitches on the outside corner, and it sure seems that in most cases, he's correct.  Heck, I've seen umpires that are so far inside that they are between the inside of the plate and the batter...not even behind any part of the plate.   I know this is going to be hard for you HS (and younger) parents to believe....but umpiring isn't really much better in college than it is in HS.  

Yea I agree 100%.  And the reason why they’re so far inside... is because “so we can see the outside plate”  but that’s like saying I’m gonna. Catch a football but not look directly where I need to to catch it.  No.  You need to look directly on what happens the most to be consistent. Is the way I feel. No MLB atleast.  I just think a long time ago. People said “this is the best” and nobody questioned it since.  

I think you are a bit...shall we say....well, you're still at the stage where you don't know what you don't know. I say this because it seems that you are establishing the batter's zone before they take their stance. No one is saying you look at the batter after a pitch. Also, the sternum has nothing to do with the strike zone. However, I can guarantee you that you cannot see the low inside pitch accurately from the outside, because you're not going to get the low strike due to the parallax effect. The lower edge of the zone is going to be effectively higher, because you're putting the ball between your eyes and the batter, and not having them in the same visual plane.

I'll use a bit of my notorious honesty...some of the words you choose to use in describing yourself and your methods make me wonder if this dialogue is a waste of time. That's far less blunt than what I normally be, but I feel it needed to be said. In our camps, clinics, and schools, there's a stereotype of the "yeahbut" umpire. This is the guy that follows up instruction from people who are very knowledgeable with why his approach is better..."Yeah, but..." 

Ok. You can have your opinion. Lol.   I’m just stating facts.  If you want my opinion..you seem like he guy who thinks they know it all and won’t give anyone a chance to prove better.  I not throwing in your typical “Yeah Buts”.... I understand what your saying and the science behind it.  And it does make sense.  Wait....you hear that?   I didn’t add a but.   BUT. Lol.  I’m going to ask you a question and it’s a factual question. (See. There will always be buts to an arguments.  That’s called life my friend. Executing/killing someone is Wrong/Bad. It’s terrible BUTTTTT When they mass murder 20+ people...they deserve it.  So I think. When your giving a reason that’s a fact and someone says your right BUT this ways better. Therese allowed But’s..... being Arrogant and close minded and not excepting responses and “but’s” seems like a dictatorship with no room for improvement   

Anyways.  You’d Rather have 100% correct inside pitch accuracy (which is 20% of pitches) and a **little bit** better of a lower Strikezone? If any. You can’t rrally say I can’t see the bottom of the strike zone. Becauseeeee we can. But you’d prefer this Over the opposite of what we’ve been saying?  I think that’s the realistic question.

otherwise...what do you mean establishing the batter’s stance?  That’s exactly what I’m doing.  By looking @ the batter...you know there Strikezone..before they take there stance....????  And the sternum has everything to do with the zone.  Knees to sternum is the Strikezone wa the last think I was taught.  Is that incorrect? 

Not being an umpire, is this what you mean by the slot?  This pitch was called ball 4.  He seemed to miss many on the outside corner.  BTW, it doesnt seem that anything at or slightly above the belt is called a strike anymore.  What is the actual zone in HS baseball?

Yes,  for the most part. That’s considered the “Slot”. And of course.  That is the reason why most Umpires blow that call. It’s just difficult to know 100% if it grazed the plate.

 And whether the umpires want to give leeway...the appropriate zone is knees to the sternum. And with girls it’s typically just below the boobs. And a bit more reasoning behind that is because it’s difficult to swing at anything higher if there boobs are in the way.  (A wise Umpire once told me) Lol

When there are young studs, they deserve the appropriate srikezone, that’s in the rules. 

(But Im still waiting for a response to my reasoning about the outside slot)

Domg617 posted:

Ok. You can have your opinion. Lol.   I’m just stating facts.  If you want my opinion..you seem like he guy who thinks they know it all and won’t give anyone a chance to prove better.  I not throwing in your typical “Yeah Buts”.... I understand what your saying and the science behind it.  And it does make sense.  Wait....you hear that?   I didn’t add a but.   BUT. Lol.  I’m going to ask you a question and it’s a factual question. (See. There will always be buts to an arguments.  That’s called life my friend. Executing/killing someone is Wrong/Bad. It’s terrible BUTTTTT When they mass murder 20+ people...they deserve it.  So I think. When your giving a reason that’s a fact and someone says your right BUT this ways better. Therese allowed But’s..... being Arrogant and close minded and not excepting responses and “but’s” seems like a dictatorship with no room for improvement   

Anyways.  You’d Rather have 100% correct inside pitch accuracy (which is 20% of pitches) and a **little bit** better of a lower Strikezone? If any. You can’t rrally say I can’t see the bottom of the strike zone. Becauseeeee we can. But you’d prefer this Over the opposite of what we’ve been saying?  I think that’s the realistic question.

 

otherwise...what do you mean establishing the batter’s stance?  That’s exactly what I’m doing.  By looking @ the batter...you know there Strikezone..before they take there stance....????  And the sternum has everything to do with the zone.  Knees to sternum is the Strikezone wa the last think I was taught.  Is that incorrect? 

Umm...I started umpiring exactly how you did, doing youth ball as a 15-year-old. 23 years later, I've done everything up to pro ball and the college postseason. I don't know it all, which is how I keep learning, getting better, and doing better games. I just might know a thing or two (or a dozen) and a lot of that experience came from making mistakes when I was not as experienced. Even better is the experience I got from listening to guys who made mistakes so I didn't have to.

It looks like you're way misrepresenting the issues at hand here. Going back to "you don't know what you don't know," you don't know that youth coaches don't know a thing about what a good zone is...if they don't complain, it's adequate, and if they do, it's either a really good zone or a really bad one. Add to that the fact that they can't see anything but up-down even if they do know what is good or bad, and they only are complimenting you on half of the equation. Also remember you're doing youth ball. The pitchers are learning, the catchers are learning, and you don't have a lot of the indicators you would need to call an accurate in-out zone. If you're consistent, you're probably having a bit of a big zone off the dish. Again, just a bit of experience talking.

You also seem to think that there's a larger trade-off in accuracy for using the slot than there is. I don't care if 100% of the pitches are over the outside part of the plate, you can still get those in the slot. But there's a bigger issue here--if you're going to be inconsistent, it has to be on the outside. The batters aren't able to tell a difference of two-three inches out there...but inside, if the batter has to protect on that, then you run the risk of calling untouchable pitches strikes, taking away the inside corner from the pitcher, or both. The functional zone is larger outside. It's what participants want and expect. 

Lastly, there's no rules that I know of that use the actual knees nor the sternum as the definition of the book zone. I would suggest looking at the definitions section of whatever rules you use to see how they define it.

FriarFred posted:

Not being an umpire, is this what you mean by the slot?  This pitch was called ball 4.  He seemed to miss many on the outside corner.  BTW, it doesnt seem that anything at or slightly above the belt is called a strike anymore.  What is the actual zone in HS baseball?

Yes, it is the slot.  This pitch is likely high and outside. You can see the ball (where it is caught) is over the left batter's box chalk line.  Of course we don't know whether the batter shifted down with the pitch but if not, the ball looks high to me.

ABSORBER posted:

FriarFred posted:

Not being an umpire, is this what you mean by the slot?  This pitch was called ball 4.  He seemed to miss many on the outside corner.  BTW, it doesnt seem that anything at or slightly above the belt is called a strike anymore.  What is the actual zone in HS baseball?

Yes, it is the slot.  This pitch is likely high and outside. You can see the ball (where it is caught) is over the left batter's box chalk line.  Of course we don't know whether the batter shifted down with the pitch but if not, the ball looks high to me.

A batters stance or whether they moved has nothing to do with there strike zone. You should be able to tell what there zone is as long as you see here knees and sternum.   

Hmm... 

A little more experience and training may be in order here. 

The zone for a particular batter starts with his natural batting stance. So if he wants to squat on his haunches so be it.  You work from there.  So yes it has everything to do with the strike zone.

So as a batter... if I want a smaller strike zone for myself ... I change my stance and squat more so there’s less room from my knees to my sturnum? I’m not sure how that makes sense. Lol. Please explain. 

Domg617 posted:

So as a batter... if I want a smaller strike zone for myself ... I change my stance and squat more so there’s less room from my knees to my sturnum? I’m not sure how that makes sense. Lol. Please explain. 

If you take my advice and look up the definition for strike zone, you would probably find your answer (or at least head in the right direction.)

No no no lol.  I looked it up.  And I knew that you were gonna send that exact response lol.  When you look it up, he question hen becomes, why don’t umpires follow that rule of thumb. But I waiting on the answer to,  “If I squat and swing while in that position...is my Strikezone smaller???”

ABSORBER posted:

Hmm... 

A little more experience and training may be in order here. 

The zone for a particular batter starts with his natural batting stance. So if he wants to squat on his haunches so be it.  You work from there.  So yes it has everything to do with the strike zone.

That is correct! Of course that is an extreme example but still correct. Good luck hitting the ball!  As to my original comment--the strike zone is established as the batter first steps into the box and assumes his natural stance. Ducking (squatting) from there does nothing as the strike zone was previously established.

Oh sheeze.

The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

 -- OBR