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Player Releases

R remyxo10+ posts
I'd like to hear from others who have ideas, opinions and solutions regarding the OBA's player release policies.

I've been inactive on this site for a long time and may have missed some threads about this topic, so I apologize if I'm being redundant.

In my opinion, the OBA policies are in need of a complete makeover, if not abolition, because they don't benefit the kids...who is it the OBA is (supposedly) doing this for, if not the kids?

Parents pay a great deal of money to be on any OBA Rep team, but they can't choose where THEY want to pay that money...they have to pay where they live? A parent can pay for many things for their kids outside their "hometown", but when it comes to sports, parents MUST stay where they live?

WHY?

Parents can register their kids to play baseball in ANY House League system without a release, but not in Rep? Why are (arguably) better players prevented from playing outside their "hometown", but the lesser skilled players in House Leagues are free to play anywhere?

What is the solution?
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R remyxo10+ posts
Yes...I have seen that proposed amendment, which is part of what brought me back here to get some input...I know there are many people here with experiences and ideas.

I think that proposed amendment was sent in late completely ON PURPOSE, I think they wanted to test the waters and see what the rank and file reaction would be...or...to get people considering it for a year, to grow the idea (and support for it)...the proposal sure got tons of publicity...easier than sending an e-mail, don't ya think?

The YSBA has members (high up) on the OBA Executive, so I find it very difficult to believe that they're not smart enough to hit a submission date that they've know about for a year...dumb like foxes maybe?
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
The OBA rules are perfectly understandable for several reasons !
The OBA provides very inexpensive BB for a wide range of players ! They do not want stronger areas raiding smaller areas for their best players !
You have 2 options other than not playing ! One is to move and the other is as Blexan said, pay thousands of dollars to play elite ball !
L liner100+ posts
Politics, politics...amd more politics. One of the issues i have is that the OBA is at least partially publically funded, and some of there policies more than a little hypocrital.

The more that challenge conventional thinking and voice an opinion, the greater the chance that some common sense will come of it eventually. The ECPL is an alternative that would compete with many mid/low level pblo teams, the terriers, mets, blue jays still at the top - but their talent pool is drastically depleted vs 4-5 years ago.I don't think anyone who has seen this would argue. My hat is off to those who are working on solutions - lucky are those who line in regions where volunterrs have a bit of insight and sway in their local organizations. I think hamilton has a kid that throws 90's that stayed local and was drafted. Good for him!


It's unfortunate that $, profit and prejudice come into play with youth baseball and public $. The old boys network is alive and well - and very,very profitable. Congrats to all who have managed to line their pockets. 10-15 K for bb is a bit absurd, but more power to those who can afford it.

Local OBA associations are just as much to blame in their myopic and insular mindset.

now let's go out and have some fun and play ball!

6 inches of snow fell last night. Smile Fingers crossed for April.
Last edited by liner
B blexann10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by liner:
Politics, politics...amd more politics. One of the issues i have is that the OBA is at least partially publically funded, and some of there policies more than a little hypocrital.

The more that challenge conventional thinking and voice an opinion, the greater the chance that some common sense will come of it eventually. The ECPL is an alternative that would compete with many mid/low level pblo teams, the terriers, mets, blue jays still at the top - but their talent pool is drastically depleted vs 4-5 years ago.I don't think anyone who has seen this would argue. My hat is off to those who are working on solutions - lucky are those who line in regions where volunterrs have a bit of insight and sway in their local organizations. I think hamilton has a kid that throws 90's that stayed local and was drafted. Good for him!


It's unfortunate that $, profit and prejudice come into play with youth baseball and public $. The old boys network is alive and well - and very,very profitable. Congrats to all who have managed to line their pockets. 10-15 K for bb is a bit absurd, but more power to those who can afford it.

Local OBA associations are just as much to blame in their myopic and insular mindset.

now let's go out and have some fun and play ball!

6 inches of snow fell last night. Smile Fingers crossed for April.


It doesnt matter where you play if you throw 90.
R remyxo10+ posts
I'm now hearing that the OBA is attempting to bring ECPL teams into the OBA fold.

Apparently, the OBA is travelling around to their affilate's monthly meetings, with a presentation that shows the OBA "vision" for a new OBA, which will include the OBA on top (where else), with PBLO and ECPL teams all under the same OBA umbrella.

I apologise for using "vision" and OBA in the same sentence...I can imagine it is confusing.

Rumor has it that OBA has approached some ECPL teams to "suggest" that they leave the ECPL and play only in an OBA "Recognized Alternate Baseball Program", which would no doubt make a former ECPL team eligible for all sorts of OBA goodies...like National team tryouts, OBA Eliminations etc etc.

So maybe this new olive branch added to the threat of player and coach suspensions looming (once they actually submit an amendment on time for next years AGM) will get the OBA what they truly want in Ontario....


C-O-N-T-R-O-L

You know what they say about power and absolute power
L liner100+ posts
Interesting thought, if it's set up properly - it could be a step in the right direction. Hard to really get a sense of trust though...instead of talking to the teams directly, if they got the boards together something worthwhile might actually come of it.

Rumor has it the ecpl will have a series at the skydome with Quebec, sponsored by the MLB scouts etc. May involve some PBLO as well - so maybe there is hope for some form of almagamtion or cooperation.

90 mph is a great place to be - that's why the Hamilton kid didn't have to spend 15K to get noticed...problem is there are too many kids crusing at 80 spending that much.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
You would be surprised at how many D! pitchers cruise in the 80s even some pros ! It helps if you throw in the 90s for sure but most D1 teams have several. My son's team had 4 throwing 92 up to 98 and only 1 got drafted in his JR year ! He was at 98 but also could pitch against top D1 teams. Getting drafted is only part of the story !
The state of BB in Ontario is sad and not just because of the OBS ! The OBA is struggling to survive in a tough expensive environment ! They have made mistakes and have corrected some. They do embrace PBLO players and many from other elite teams ! If you stand o0ut and are interested they will invite you to tryout for the youth teams !
I do feel sorry for players parents who feel they have to pay huge fees especially teams that really do not play great competition !
The most we paid was $2200 for a full year with trips to Long Island, Charleston SC and other great tournaments. We spent a total of approx $8000 including OBA,HS and Elite !
If you think about what you are doing you can get noticed without spending big dollars.
R remyxo10+ posts
OBA teams are not always a good value for teams and families...some are, but I would bet that less and less fall into that category every year.

The VAST majority of OBA Rep teams are coached by "dads"...and while that is not meant to be derogatory, it certainly is not a compliment in many cases (the majority, in fact), considering how many "dads" coach a Rep team just so their son can play on that team...we ALL know this scenario personally, I'm sure.

I know of MANY teams playing in OBA Rep programs and some are barely classified at an 'A' Level, but the team budgets exceed $13,000, which means parents on these psuedo-rep teams are paying a minimum of $1000, which does not include expenses (add another five or six hundred for costs...much more in many cases).

Less "competitive" OBA Rep baseball will almost certainly lead to more parents choosing better teams and coaches for not much more money on some Elite teams. In most cases, Elite teams have better coaching, better training and attend better tournaments (I realize that is not applicable to ALL Elite teams), so if the costs are double what an OBA team costs and the training, coaching and competition is twice as good...who is getting ripped off?

At least in the Ontario "Elite" world, if you don't like the coach, you can change teams without a release...can't do that in the OBA, even if the coach is completely ignorant about baseball and his kid is the worst player on the team.
Last edited by remyxo
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
When my son played OBA the team was AAA and we played some great teams out of TO, Kitchener etc but Elite ball had not had taken most of the top players at that time . Yes there was a lot of daddy ball but we just ignored it ! Our coach's son was good enough to play and ended up at a D1 college and just finished his PHD in Electrical Engineering !
I found that the OBA was reasonable and cot 2-3 hundred a year plus back then a couple hundred to play district all-star. I understand they no longer have district all-star which were the best players from the 8 Ontario districts. That was a blast !
The Elite teams were $2200 to $8000 back then but we always cut a deal ! To me that is at least 10 times the OBA team we played for but it was worth it in my opinion ! I understand it is watered down a lot now and the costs are ridiculous . I don't know what I would do in todays situation !I certainly would have my son buckle down so he would be noticed no matter where he played if his goal was to play US college ball ! I also recommend doing well in the classroom !
B blexann10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
You would be surprised at how many D! pitchers cruise in the 80s even some pros ! It helps if you throw in the 90s for sure but most D1 teams have several. My son's team had 4 throwing 92 up to 98 and only 1 got drafted in his JR year ! He was at 98 but also could pitch against top D1 teams. Getting drafted is only part of the story !
The state of BB in Ontario is sad and not just because of the OBS ! The OBA is struggling to survive in a tough expensive environment ! They have made mistakes and have corrected some. They do embrace PBLO players and many from other elite teams ! If you stand o0ut and are interested they will invite you to tryout for the youth teams !
I do feel sorry for players parents who feel they have to pay huge fees especially teams that really do not play great competition !
The most we paid was $2200 for a full year with trips to Long Island, Charleston SC and other great tournaments. We spent a total of approx $8000 including OBA,HS and Elite !
If you think about what you are doing you can get noticed without spending big dollars.


Throwing 90 in the OBA gets you noticed big time but has absolutely nothing to do with future success ..ie. draft ..etc

“If you think about what you are doing you can get noticed without spending big dollars.”

Not true anymore
B blexann10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by remyxo:
OBA teams are not always a good value for teams and families...some are, but I would bet that less and less fall into that category every year.

The VAST majority of OBA Rep teams are coached by "dads"...and while that is not meant to be derogatory, it certainly is not a compliment in many cases (the majority, in fact), considering how many "dads" coach a Rep team just so their son can play on that team...we ALL know this scenario personally, I'm sure.

I know of MANY teams playing in OBA Rep programs and some are barely classified at an 'A' Level, but the team budgets exceed $13,000, which means parents on these psuedo-rep teams are paying a minimum of $1000, which does not include expenses (add another five or six hundred for costs...much more in many cases).

Less "competitive" OBA Rep baseball will almost certainly lead to more parents choosing better teams and coaches for not much more money on some Elite teams. In most cases, Elite teams have better coaching, better training and attend better tournaments (I realize that is not applicable to ALL Elite teams), so if the costs are double what an OBA team costs and the training, coaching and competition is twice as good...who is getting ripped off?

At least in the Ontario "Elite" world, if you don't like the coach, you can change teams without a release...can't do that in the OBA, even if the coach is completely ignorant about baseball and his kid is the worst player on the team.


IMO the daddy ball thing is REALLY bad in OBA
R remyxo10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by blexann:
IMO the daddy ball thing is REALLY bad in OBA


And it will only get worse, where local associations have less players and less teams.

Don't forget that in most cases, local associations get one vote (at the affiliate AGM) for every rep team they have in a given year (no matter how bad a team it is) and dadddies who get a team that they don't deserve will vote however the poobah of their asssociation wants, to keep coaching.

Q: Why do vote$ matter?
A: $illy question


I recall a few years ago when they supposedly re-invented the coach training program in the OBA and called it "competency based"...go watch a few Tier 2 or Tier 3 teams play and see how that's working out.

In fairness, even Tier 1 teams have coaching issues, but the OBA doesn't care and they can keep you locked up forever...even if a coach is incompetent they don't have to release your kid to a better team.

Don't anyone tell me that the OBA release policy is about balance, or keeping it competitive, because that's complete BS, just look which associations win more on Labour Day...fair is a 4-letter word in the OBA.
Last edited by remyxo
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
quote:
Don't anyone tell me that the OBA release policy is about balance, or keeping it competitive, because that's complete BS


It is not about balance, it is about making sure that less well endowed araes have a few decent players who would otherwise leave for major centers ! Not hard to understand !
As far as daddy ball it exists all over the USA and Canada ! BB coaches who coach essentially without pay is usually a dad. If you have a way to solve that problem, the OBA would be sure to listen !

Blex
"“If you think about what you are doing you can get noticed without spending big dollars.”

Not true anymore"

That is more true today than ever ! It is "effective marketing" ! Coaches are looking for players that can help their team and if your son is good and you show the coach he could perform at that level, he will get a chance !
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
B blexann10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
quote:
Don't anyone tell me that the OBA release policy is about balance, or keeping it competitive, because that's complete BS


It is not about balance, it is about making sure that less well endowed araes have a few decent players who would otherwise leave for major centers ! Not hard to understand !
As far as daddy ball it exists all over the USA and Canada ! BB coaches who coach essentially without pay is usually a dad. If you have a way to solve that problem, the OBA would be sure to listen !

Blex
"“If you think about what you are doing you can get noticed without spending big dollars.”

Not true anymore"

That is more true today than ever ! It is "effective marketing" ! Coaches are looking for players that can help their team and if your son is good and you show the coach he could perform at that level, he will get a chance !


You cannot compare the daddy ball in the US to what is happening here. It is a very small group of **** heads that are in charge and pat each other on the back. In the US there are alternative programs just like what we have here for Hockey – so many alternatives for hockey here. Bobblehead, times are different now than when your son played – I’m sure you had some good and bad experiences but you cannot compare to today - you just cannot. In fact, baseball in Ontario today is different from even 2 years ago!!!

So my older son played 1 year elite and enjoyed it greatly but he knew when to get out and concentrate on his education. He now plays BB at a Canadian University and loves it!!

My younger son as I said left baseball and is having the time of his life with a great Hockey coach at the AAA level for the last 2 years. He is a serious Jnr prospect. In hockey those dads would not last 2 years. In OBA the bad coaching and dads that just should not be coaching are almost never kicked out – they last forever. You don’t want to know how my sons last year in the OBA went A TOTAL DISASTER OF A TEAM AND COACHING STAFF.

ELITE LEVEL PLAYERS ARE LEAVING THE SPORT
Last edited by blexann
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Hockey is a different sport all together and my city is a hockey city. Ted Nolan is a client and I attended most of his son's games for years. 2 of my nephews are AAA coaches and have no son's !
BB is not comparable and it is rare to find a coach without a son on his team ! Without these dads BB would not exist ! Yes we had good and bad experiences in OBA but we fought through it and my son played 4 years of D1 in South Carolina,got a great degree and had no problem getting a great job ! It cost us next to nothing for that degree !
I watch all levels of BB still including Canadian U BB. You cannot compare that to US college ball and yes it is fun as most BB is ! I watch local OBA all the time as well as Elite. The only difference is the cost and what you don't get for the price you pay ! OBA is still a fun BB experience which is not without it's usual upset parents. USA daddy ball is exactly the same as here and in the small centers they have no choices either !
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