quote:Originally posted by obrady:
As a new resident to Texas, we informed day one that if a player even attended a party where alcohol was present, they better leave. He said that last year, a kid had a picture taken of he and his girlfriend at such a party, the picture was posted on the web and in the back ground was someone with a beer. UIL rules, he was dismissed form the team.
Participating in Athletics and representing your school is a privilage and with privilages there is responsibility. While in the eye of the law there is not a "separation" in the the eye of the athlete there should be an amount of personal pride that separates you from the rest. Athletes often put themselves on a pedistal until they slip and then use the "excuse" that they should not be treated any differently.quote:Originally posted by Coachee:
Have been told that a athlete can not legally be held to a higher standard than a regular student, basically you can not take action against a athlete unless the violation is one that would be imposed on a regular student for the same violation.Comments ??????????
One of my son's high school teammates was found guilty of being drunk at school based on the statement of another student. No administrative witnesses and no evidence other than the student's statement. That was enough to have him kicked off the team for the season, even though baseball had not even started. There is one form of due process in the school building and there is a different due process in the real world.
too.tall posted:One of my son's high school teammates was found guilty of being drunk at school based on the statement of another student. No administrative witnesses and no evidence other than the student's statement. That was enough to have him kicked off the team for the season, even though baseball had not even started. There is one form of due process in the school building and there is a different due process in the real world.
If it's a public school the kid as all the same rights he has on the street. Would you say the kid was denied due process?
RJM posted:too.tall posted:One of my son's high school teammates was found guilty of being drunk at school based on the statement of another student. No administrative witnesses and no evidence other than the student's statement. That was enough to have him kicked off the team for the season, even though baseball had not even started. There is one form of due process in the school building and there is a different due process in the real world.
If it's a public school the kid as all the same rights he has on the street. Would you say the kid in your situation was denied due process? Here's another student drinking and rights situation. I do know the attorney is a neighbor and took the case pro bono.
Yes, the kid in my situation was denied the right to confront his accuser. The statement of the
student was taken as incontrovertible proof.
too.tall posted:RJM posted:too.tall posted:One of my son's high school teammates was found guilty of being drunk at school based on the statement of another student. No administrative witnesses and no evidence other than the student's statement. That was enough to have him kicked off the team for the season, even though baseball had not even started. There is one form of due process in the school building and there is a different due process in the real world.
If it's a public school the kid as all the same rights he has on the street. Would you say the kid in your situation was denied due process? Here's another student drinking and rights situation. I do know the attorney is a neighbor and took the case pro bono.
Yes, the kid in my situation was denied the right to confront his accuser. The statement of the
student was taken as incontrovertible proof.
This isn't a criminal issue. There is no right to confront an accuser.
Then what kind of an issue is it? Bottom line is fairness.
IMO most public schools are run with all of the fairness the NCAA....good luck.
A good school/school district will have a well defined policy and procedure for dealing with student behavior. The student in question and his family should find out what the procedure is and take action to ensure their student is treated fairly. This includes having an appeal process all the way through the school board.
On another note, if this does not involve your son you probably do not have all the facts. Many many times the rumors going around do not match up to the actual facts of the case. This includes the stories told by those involved. Many times they are trying to "save face". The school will not release all the facts to the general public as they have to protect the rights of under-aged children. Unless this directly involves your child the odds are there is information you are missing.
Why isn't it a criminal issue? It's illegal to have alcohol if you're under 21 isn't it? I agree that information is likely missing. Laws are pretty strict on releasing information about students. My concern is that often schools handle issues internally and cause themselves problems when it would be perhaps smarter to turn it over to law enforcement and let them deal with it — but that scares many administrators who want control over the situation. IMO.
Its both a school issue and a criminal issue. Knowing how schools work, it was most likely discussed with the School Resource Office (if they have one). The SRO can then make a decision on moving forward with the issue. If it was only a rumor of the kid drinking, the SRO is most likely not going to issue a citation as he needs proof that will hold up in court.
If the kid is an athlete, he most likely signed a code of conduct with the school. This is a contractual relationship with the school and not a criminal law relationship. Contractual relationships can be enforced outside the law and for some reason the school choose to do that. We do not know what the schools investigation has found. Maybe its not his first offense. Maybe he admitted to it behind closed doors. Maybe none of that happened and he is innocence. We do not know all the details and anyone outside of the student, his family and the school administrator that dealt with the problem does not know either.
In most cases the school will not discuss the issue with anyone other then the student and his family. This includes the kid making the accusation, other students or teachers. There are legal reasons for this. He is a minor and in most states the school will legal consequences as well as put itself in a position to be sued.
4-6 kids were probably drinking in my classroom and I had no idea. They might've put alcohol in a rockstar can and passed it around. They were all giggling, and I wasn't aware of those signs before.
My kid won't even drink the communion wine at church.
woody4220 posted:Disturbing news out of my son's HS today...4 seniors booted off the team for drinking alcohol at a party last weekend. All four were starters and were considered "leaders" of the team. Not only were they being foolish for the drinking itself, but could very well have damaged their chances for playing at the college level.
The school system introduced a proposed alcohol and drug testing program for athletes a few months ago that I think is going to take effect next school year. The proposal has been considered controversial but I think in general to be a good idea.
Man. Us Christians would be piloried for being purotanical and "In everybody's business" if we even suggested such a thing.
too.tall posted:Then what kind of an issue is it? Bottom line is fairness.
Right to confront your accuser only applies to a court of law. BTW.....I do actually agree with you.
What if the accused takes the matter to a court of law?
I'm not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, but I'm not so sure that the courts are going to allow such a blatant and dangerous violation of an individual's basic civil right to face their accuser, hear the proof against them and to mount a defense. At least let them mount a horse, for crying' out loud!
Teaching Elder posted:What if the accused takes the matter to a court of law?
I'm not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, but I'm not so sure that the courts are going to allow such a blatant and dangerous violation of an individual's basic civil right to face their accuser, hear the proof against them and to mount a defense. At least let them mount a horse, for crying' out loud!
They have that right. The schools are governed by different rules and policies then the courts are. A good school district will have a well defined discipline policy that includes appeals up to the school board. If there is still a disagreement after that the parents/student can always turn to the courts for relief.
As I mentioned before, unless you are the student who is accused of drinking, his family, or the administrator you do not have all the facts. I do not work in a school system, but my wife is an administrator in the district we live in and in which my kids attend school. We hear all the rumors and in a lot of cases know the actual facts. I can tell you that 80% of the time the rumors going around, or the kids story that he tells his friends, does not match up to the actual facts. Even when the school is being slammed pretty hard through rumors, or even in the press, they are prohibited from discussing any details of any incident. It all has to do with maintaining the privacy rights of minor children.
