Playing time

1. You should not speak with the coach until after your son does so first.

2. Welcome to the real world. I seriously doubt your son is being punished. Nearly every coach I have known puts on the field the lineup he feels provides the best chance to win. You might not agree, and he might not be right, but someone is going to sit the bench and seldom will that someone be happy about it.

3. I'd let it ride and stay positive for your son.

4. If you are like most parents, the situation is tougher on you than on your son.

Best of luck.

ANYONE HEARD OF THE LAFAYETTE GENERALS CONNIE MACK BASEBALL CLUB????

jemaz, are you implying there are no politics in HS ball? That every kid gets what he deserves?

I agree with your first point.

This could be another parent with rose colored glasses. Or it might not.

First of all hang in there dad. I know you are hurting for your son its only natural and doesnt mean that anything is wrong with you. If your son is actually better than these other kids the cream will rise to the top eventually. Look your son can go to the coach and tell him that he feels like he should be getting more playing time. And he can ask the coach what he needs to do in order to get more playing time. If you stay positive your son will stay positive and it will work out for him. This can be a bad situation but it can actually turn into something very good for your son if it is handled right. He will earn the respect of his teamates and the coaches if he continues to bust his butt and keeps a positive attitude and stands up for himself and talks to the coach like a young man. The coaches want to win. And if he is the best option he will be there eventually if he keeps a good attitude and you support him with a positive approach. Good luck

baseball 24/7
This is the perfect time for your son to learn that the coach is the only one that desire who is playing and who is not. The reaction to this fact is what is going to determinate what is going to happen next. In baseball, players have to win their spot every day, so be pacient and tell your son to playing hard and waiting for his opportunity will be the only way to win a place in the team. It is just sophomore, come on, I know kids that have to wait to his senior year to be a starter in HS.

Baseball, You've received some good advice here. If your son is a very good player and you talk to the coach and open his eyes to yours son's ability - then maybe your son plays. What good would this do for him? He, the other kids, parents and yourself would know he's playing because of dad. I'm sure you'd rather he battle for his spot and win it on his own. If he's good, he will eventually play. High School coaches want to win. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with your son talking to the coach to see what the coach thinks he can improve on. Coaches generally respect the kids who want to improve and want his (coach) opinion. They want a kid to have ambition and passion to play - he just needs to demonstrate this in a positive manner. Good luck to your son.

Texan:

Life is politics. But what I am saying is that someone will always be on the bench and probably that player's parents believe that player ought to be playing when the reality most likely is that one of a number of players could be playing.

The other thing is that if a coach lets politics play a roll that hurts the team on the field, then the coach won't be coaching too long, which is a huge deterent. Politics usually are an issue only when the players are so close as to be essentially indistinguishable. Then many things figure in, including the personality of the player and how it fits into the team.

As players move from one level to the next things change-- playing time changes--the "stud" from the tiny pong is no longer a "stud"--those players who love the game and play for the sheer love of it know where their talent lies and accept their roles as they are given to them

The LL Star is not always the HS star and the HS star is not always the college star

It is part of life's pr****ss

All good posts here. You do not have to accept it as fate. You can do something about it. If you believe in yourself and never give up and keep working as hard as you can good things will happen for your son in the game. It might be a star role or it might be another role just as important to the team. We dont always get what we want but sometimes what we do get is much better in the end than what we thought we actually wanted. Adversity to me is like putting steel to the fire. It might initially weaken it but in the end it only makes it stronger.

Coach May

Adversity is like putting steel to the fire? This don't sound like your posts on the "axe" replies. Where do you really stand?

With one exception, none of these posts in reply are from Texas --- where football rules. I would not be surprised at all if this "football first" coach is punishing the young man for quitting football. Similar pressure was exerted on my older son when he (a quarterback) gave up it up to focus on baseball. Sad, but true. I agree the player should talk to the coach first, before Dad gets involved. If that doesn't work -- step in on his behalf.

Natural

Are you saying that if the player talks to the coach and the player doesnt succeed in getting what he wants regarding playing time that DADDY should take up the argument?

If I am the coach and I lay it out for the kid he better not have DADDY come see me--- it won't make things any better

When do you suggest that Daddy cease "stepping in" for his boy?

My daddy would say "Son you just need to work harder" or "Son the player ahead of you may just be better than you".

This problem varies by school. In our area, there are no freshman teams. You are limited to Varsity and JV only.

At some schools anywhere between 65-90 players will come to tryouts. Many of the "cut" players are very capable and would play for other schools. A few schools may only have to cut 3-4 players who come to tryouts. At other schools, they have to pound the hallways in order to field a JV team at all and everyone who shows up makes it.

Playing Time is an issue between the player and the coach. The coach, if he is worth his salt will concentrate on putting the best 8 players on the field and the best pitchers on the mound. At some schools, pitchers only pitch while at others, the stud on the mound might be the SS in the next game.

There are no general rules except one. A player needs to talk to the coach to determine what the coach perceives his strength and weaknesses to be. He's going to have to earn his playing time. It starts in his approach to practice. His reputation and record in years past don't carry over. At every level, you have to prove yourself over and over and over. The process of proving yourself starts and ends at practice with effort, ability and attitude.

Dad, stay out of it. It's also part of growing up. It's time for your son to learn to deal with coaches. It's a very valuable lesson that will help him his entire life.

24/7,

A quick question, are these official stats or yours?

Putting that aside, if your son trulys loves the game he will continue working hard and get his chance to play. Keep encouraging him and try to help him improve his skills and be a good teammate. I would strongly suggest you not talk to his coach and let the coach make his own decisions.He may have his own reasons(right or wrong) but probably doesn't want to hear from parents. I have the chance to see my son's coach once a week and wenever talk about my son or any other players for that matter. Maybe his next coach will see his abilities and put him on the field. If he is having trouble with the situation, have him approach the coach in a atmosphere that he is comfortable with(an, office, the class room). Try not to put the coach on the spot in front of others (game time, in front of other players) and hopefully he will get his questions answered.

Tell him to keep working hard and good luck to him this year.

Parents should do what parents do guide their kids through experiences no matter what. Guide is what it means. encouragement advice etc. etc. One thing they should tell their kids is that life is not fair. there are going to be times when you get the short end of the stick. How they react to it is the most important. sooner or later they have to deal with dissappointment and quite frankly sticking your nose into it might make the parent feel good but it ends there. I remember driving home from a game and my son was moaning and groaning about the coach this and he should play here or bat there etc etc etc. I pulled over to the side told him that I was not the person who had the answers. Talk to the coach. he will give you the answers. You might not agree or like it but you will get an answer. He was about 13. However some parents for whatever reason take the approach to call the AD or write a letter complaining of the coaches ineptitude in dealing with his or her son or daughter.

Will I agree wholeheartedly!

Playing time has nothing to do with how you cut kids wvtmer I think thats how you spell it. On giving the axe I posted how I feel. Playing time is a whole different issue is it not. Ive never met a coach that didnt want to win. Now since you can not carry just nine kids someone has to sit out some of the time. A player has choices to make. Pout about it and prove the coach right. Or work harder and prove to the coach that he can help the team in some way. Sometimes coaches are wrong that is a fact. Sometimes they are wrong about who they start and they see it over time because the player plays himself out of a posistion or another kid plays himself into a posistion. And sometimes coaches are right. Its up to the player to prove the coach wrong. Not the parent. The parent stays positive and helps and guides their son by helping him stay positive. Dont give kids exucuses give them positive reinforcement that can lead to solutions. Are their politics at some programs Im sure there is. But any coach that allows politics to determine who plays and who does not play is not really a coach but a puppet and should find another job but not in coaching. But once a players resigns himself to "The coach doesnt like me thats why Im not playing mentality" he is done. Why would a parent want to feed into that destructive mentality? Even if the parent feels that way what good can come from expressing this point of view to your kid? You are setting him up and giving him excuses to fail.

I think all coaches can cite many instances where a kids performance forced the coach to put him in the lineup

I know I have had players who forced me and on the other hand I have had kids who I benched becuase of bad attitude or performance.

The kid who doesnt p##s and moan and just keeps working hard will always win out sooner or later.

"ATTITUDE" plays a big part in the overall picture

TRHit -

I am not suggesting Dad intervene regarding playing time. That is wholly the perogative of the coach. I am simply stating the fact that in the state of Texas some coaches discriminate against kids who quit football -- I have seen it firsthand. These are not pure baseball coaches --- they are football coaches who happen to also coach the JV baseball team. And if a young man is being unfairly treated (granted that is in the eye of the beholder) because of a football issue, that is wrong and should be addressed with the coach or the A.D. I am sorry, but you cannot imagine how pervasive this is unless you live here.

quote:

Originally posted by jemaz:
The other thing is that if a coach lets politics play a roll that hurts the team on the field, then the coach won't be coaching too long, which is a huge deterent. Politics usually are an issue only when the players are so close as to be essentially indistinguishable. Then many things figure in, including the personality of the player and how it fits into the team.

I have to disagree. {Please note: my son is playing HS ball and has gotten a lot of playing time, so no ax to grind here.}

Some coaches will pursue their politics and survive for quite some time. And even if they only last four or five years, is your son is on the short end of those politics for those four years, it might as well be an eternity for your child.

I'm seeing politics play a role right now. The son of a big contributor is starting every game. {Thank goodness at a position my son doesn't play!} The kid can't play his way out of a wet paper bag. There are significantly better players. But subconsciously, the coach is allowing those sizeable checks (to his cash starved program, granted) influence his decision making.

I have seen a HS coach get crosswise with a private pitching coach concerning overuse of pitchers, and take it out on that PC's pupils. Some of those boys got next to no playing time in HS, then were in the starting rotation their freshman year in college. They performed very well on top notch select teams in the summer fall, after being deemed "no good" by the HS coach in the spring.

Maybe we are just separated on our views by a matter of degree.

The dad could try to find some very honest soul to give him an unbiased critique. Or take a look at the stats. It may well be the dad has rose colored glasses, but there is also a significant chance that other factors are at play.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Natural

Are you saying that if the player talks to the coach and the player doesnt succeed in getting what he wants regarding playing time that DADDY should take up the argument?

If I am the coach and I lay it out for the kid he better not have DADDY come see me--- it won't make things any better

When do you suggest that Daddy cease "stepping in" for his boy?

My daddy would say "Son you just need to work harder" or "Son the player ahead of you may just be better than you".

Parents shouldn't abdicate their parenting responsibilities merely because their kids reach HS. If so, the age of adulthood would be considered 14YO. Surely you know teens better than to believe they can handle every situation on their own.

The child should make his best effort, but there are times when parental involvement - in the proper manner - are called for. Those should be few & far between, and hopefully nonexistant. But I would never write off the possibility of discussing matters with HS employees.

quote:

the "stud" from the tiny pong is no longer a "stud"--

TR - I think I know what you were saying here, but I can't stop wondering about that tiny pong stud. (amazing what those fingers will do when you're not watching them, eh?)

Back on topic - I've made it a point not to talk to any of my kids' coaches about my kids activity on the coach's team - any sport, any time. Some of them must think I'm anti-social because of it. I know lots of parents who do bend the ear of the coaches all the time - that's their business. I view high school sports as a great opportunity for kids to learn about life: fair, unfair, lucky, unlucky, you name it. (High School as a place you learn stuff - what a concept!) Baseball, like all sports, is a numbers game. At our school players get cut who would start at a small, less competitve school. Sometimes you get lucky and there just isn't much competition at your position; other times, the big boosters contributer's son plays your base. Bummer.

Just like real life. Kind of fair most of the time, totally unfair for a variety of reasons some of the time. Let me chime in: support your son. Tell him you believe in him. Help him practice (if he wants to) after hours and on weekends. Once he gets to school, though, butt out.

The only baseball topics I will discuss with my son's HS coach are things outside the HS program, e.g., getting his advice on college camps, recruiting, how we match up against other teams, etc. ... anything "inside the lines" of his program is primarily between him and my son. I think the farthest I've ever gone was simply to hint that my son wanted to get a little more ground-ball work in during practice ... he knows he'll never see 3B on his HS team because of his innings on the mound, but plays 3B often for his club team where the pitching rotation is very deep, so just wants to keep his hands soft and not get rusty.

If my son wants to get more at bats, etc., my job is to throw him some wiffles in the back yard and help encourage him. It's his job to establish a dialog with his coach about what he can do for the program. I wouldn't consider crossing the line into discussion positions, playing time, etc. ... unless my son had first exhausted all avenues himself and it was clearly time for an open three-way dialog to get a better understanding of his role, future, his alternatives in the program, and what we as parents can best do to support him. I see that only as an extreme case ... I know my son's own feelings are that he has to just demonstrate every day that he's got something to contribute on the hill and in the batters box and let that do the talking for him, and you just have to hope that those are attributes that are at the top of the coach's value system.

I do think we have to really encourage our boys to establish very open communications with their coaches, and some coaches are more approachable than others. They have to learn how to communicate effectively with a variety of personality styles and take personal responsibility for their own futures. I know my son has had to learn how to work through things with coaches or teachers that are a little "rough around the edges" ... he ultimately had to see that achieving his goals has to be done through many people in positions of authority. Whether they are easy or hard to deal with simply doesn't matter, so it's in his own self interest to figure out how to work effectively with a variety of authority figures regardless of their personality type. In the end, he just wants to throw the ball and swing his bat and he's happy.

Obviously, if the player has exhausted his own initiative and is at the point of choosing to quit the program or move to another school ... he's clearly considering some BIG decisions with significant consequences that probably would be well advised for the coach, player, and parent to get together and have a honest discussion before those choices are made. I would expect most coaches would prefer an honest discussion to a kid just walking up and blind-siding him by handing him their transfer papers.

What do you consider a top teer select team in DFW?

I've seen LOTS of parents that think their son is playing for one of the elites, only to be laughed at by other parents. There are a lot of programs in town, that at the younger age levels, are there for one reason, and one reason only.

To collect a check from a parent.

The Dallas Mustangs is a prime example. Top rated U-18 team, but when you get down to the 14,15 and even the 16's, they are just check cashers.

You son is a sophomore? What select team did he play for?

And is the .600 OB% on a Freshman team? Freshman baseball is almost as bad as rec ball.

triple

I do not see what your post has to do with the dicussion in progress

Texan

You mention the son of a "big contributor" starts every game and you are thankful it is not at your sons position. More reason to keep the fund raising out of the hands of parents. No matter what you say money for the most part comes with strings.

I agree that the players have to deal with the coaches on their own, but it isn't always the way that Will talks about with "contributors" kids being the ones favored.

My own son is a Jr., and is stuck playing behind a senior that isn't as strong a player. When he tried out for varsity as a soph, the coach conceded that he was better than the sr. and jr. at his position (the jr. who is now the sr. this year) on the day that he cut my son and sent him to JV. My son was told it didn't matter that he'd played better, that the team had older players that were going to get to play and that was that. My son was furious to get cut after outplaying the older players, but used it positively. He ended up hitting over .400 and driving in double the number of runs compared to the next highest player on JV. Now, my son is a Jr. and still stuck behind the senior who isn't as productive. His approach is to keep his chin up, his mouth shut and let his play on the field do his talking for him. We figure that eventually the coach will see what is in the team's best interest and he'll get his opportunities. We think its is a rotten situation, but its the one he's stuck in and has to make the best of. We've talked about it and agreed that he has to deal with it, that we as parents won't get involved (unless there is a serious problem). In the meantime, the senior gets to play and has his chance to demonstrate why he should be there or shouldn't be there.

I don't know what the reason is why the older player gets the time, other than he's the senior. My son is very competitive and wants the team to win league this spring(and they should be a league favorite this year) so he's doing the tough thing and riding the pine.

This didn't happen because of some parent being a big contributor, because in this case I'm the one who's the big contributor, both in terms of work for the program as well as fundraiser.

Texan:

If what you are saying is true where you are and I was in your shoes, I would move. If your description is accurate, I would tell you it is pathetic. It is one I have never encountered anywhere.

I don't know about moving. My son and I had the same discussion. He wanted to transfer to a neighboring school because he could see his HS coach doing this to him again. He figured that he could start at either of the two closest high schools and is probably correct in that assessment. I refused to even consider letting him transfer because of sports, though many do make this decision. I told him there is more to high school than sports, and besides there is always summer baseball. His concern is that the HS coach might pull this again next year. He'll be going to the same HS next year.

The only time a parent should intervene is when they feel their son's health may be at risk.

Question to parents, what are you going to do when your son doesn't get the playing time in college that YOU feel he deserves? Call the coach? I don't think so.
I understand how some of you feel, I felt that way myself, on several occassions in HS. My son sat as a sophomore (yes I also felt HE was better than the jr or sr pitchers and the hitters as well), but he did, he learned and his time came and it was well worth the wait. Then, whammo, as a senior, he was THE man. Now he is a freshman in college and he is not THE man anymore, he has a lot to learn, as TR says, as players move from one level to the next things change. Learn to live with those changes or you will be miserable, and you will make your sons miserable as well.
I think ours sons deal with it a lot better than we give them credit for. If they feel that they have not been treated fairly, THEY need to speak to the coach and find out what the problem is, not YOU.

06cathcherdad,
There are many HS coaches out there that play their older players, regardless of who is the better player. That is the way it is in most places. Most kids do not continue to the next level and they are given "their" time by the coach.

Many times, it is just a case that the parent is the only one who sees his son as the better player.

TPM, I agree about coaches playing the seniors happening often. That is definitely going on here, as all but one of the seniors on the team starts. As you say, and I said above, parents should only get involved in serious situations like you describe.

As far as who's the better player, I'm prety objective as I've coached a lot of baseball - and it ain't daddy ball, either. In the case of my own, his pop times are .3-.4 second quicker than the senior, blocks much better, receives pitches better, and is listed as faster on speed too. He's stuck with a coach who believes in playing his seniors and until league play starts it probably won't change. For the sake of competing in league, we're hoping to see several roster changes. Of course, that policy might also be why our varsity is has only been a .500 team the last few years.

06Catcherdad,
My last comments were not directed to you personally, sorry if it came across that way.

That was the case of our HS as well, but to those who were really good, it didn't matter.

We didn't rely on HS ball to get him to the next level.

No offense taken. We're looking at it as another roadblock that he has to overcome. Most years, he's never been one of the "all everything" recognized players, despite putting up strong numbers.

Heck, I figure that most kids haven't gotten to their varsity years, and most of the ones playing now won't be playing after they graduate HS. Persistence can't be underestimated. However long mine plays, he'll be able to look back on his baseball years as something that taught him what it means to keep pushing forward despite having roadblocks thrown in his way. THAT is a useful skill to develop for later in life.

BTW, the moose-man sure looks good with his new avatar!

quote:

BTW, the moose-man sure looks good with his new avatar!

Don't you just love it!

quote:

Originally posted by jemaz:
Texan:

If what you are saying is true where you are and I was in your shoes, I would move. If your description is accurate, I would tell you it is pathetic. It is one I have never encountered anywhere.

It is true, and from discussions with others it is not highly unusual. I like the kid as a person. He seldom can get his throwdown to second without a hop, has a lot of passed balls, frequently attempts pick throws to first or third that are offline and end up rolling into the outfield, can't call pitches, isn't much of a field general (forgets to call the plays), is slow footed and has a so-so stick. But other than that he is an all right catcher.

As I said, I'm just glad that catcher isn't my son's position.

No program is perfect. The coach has some very good attributes. But we all have our weaknesses. The baseball program is sorely underfunded, as football gets all the bucks.

baseball24-7,

How many games did your son play at shortstop his freshman year? You said he made zero errors. Are you aware that he set the national freshman record… or at the least, he tied the record.

It seems that some very legitimate HS coaches who run successful programs have different philosophies and I can't say that's wrong.

At our local HS, its rare for freshman to make JV and for sophomore's to make varsity. There are, of course, exceptions. In fact, the varsity coach allows how their recent most successful year (they won state), they only had three seniors on the squad and had to pull up 6 sophomores to varsity...who worked their tails off.

It seems its sort of a situation of "paying your dues." Kids who have "come up through the ranks," as it were, and who finally get their crack at varsity are given some preference... I don't think that's such a bad thing. Could the varsity be made "better" if it was strictly based on skill/talent...probably. However, I think there's something to be said for giving each class its own "time in the sun."

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
triple

I do not see what your post has to do with the dicussion in progress

Then read the original post TRhit. In it, the poster states that "My son is a sophmore he has played select ball since age 9 he knows the game and is pretty good at it plays for one of the premier select orgs. in DFW"

He wants us to believe that his kid is a stud based on the fact that he played for "one of the premier select orgs. in DFW"

What I'm saying, is maybe for the last 6 or 7 years, this guy has been feeding his money into an organization only to find out as many other parents do, that it was all a scam. Just a way to get their money.

Wow, what a great thread!

My perspective is that I feel that a parent should not get involved unless there is an abusive situation with their son or daughter (either physical or emotional). We are unique in that we are a homeschooling family living in a state that allows homeschoolers to play on their HS sports teams. Talk about bias...how would you like to have a kid come in and take a spot your kid would have gotten? Anyway, it wasn't an easy situation, but we did just as one of the contributors mentioned and had our son talk to the coach about what he had to do to get more playing time. He got the normal "keep working hard" and "we are going to play the player that we think will give us the best chance to win". To make a long story short, our son ended up splitting time with a player that we thought was not nearly as good (our son hit .357, the other. .086). HOWEVER, we made sure our son never complained to the coaches. We kept our relationships with them open. These same coaches would be the ones colleges would be talking to to get a read on our kid. It was important for us to help our son understand that particularly in baseball, many things are very subjective.

Now our son is in college playing JUCO baseball, getting professional attention as well as D1 interest.

As we tell our kids, sometimes you have to "deal with it" because "life isn't fair".