Playing with torn labrum

DH.

KT333,

Very sorry to hear this.  Thoughts and prayers are with you. 

Yeah, sorry to hear that.  What does doc say?  What does coach say?  What does PT say?

DH isn't an option. Hitting wise I am the Jose Altuve of NAIA baseball and we have plenty of Adam Dunns on our team. 

See the doc Monday. I know he's going to say it's up to you.

Like I said though whatever it takes. Just need to know if there are other guys that have done it...

Refuse to tell my coach. There is no way that's happening.

KT, I'm curious... did one of your docs or trainers already tell you they would give you cortisone shots?   That surprises me and I genuinely want to understand.

When did you re-tear?  How?  What is the severity?  What does the doc say the new rehab timeline is?  Does he say you may need to have another surgical repair?  To answer your question directly, yes other players have come back from a torn labrum to play but I don't know of any who came back without going through the proper recommended rehab first.  My experience is that there are no shortcuts and you must follow doc/PT program to a T in order to properly recover in the estimated timeline. 

I understand your frustration and admire the fact that you want to be on the field no matter what.  I think most guys who make it as far into college baseball careers as you have typically have that mentality.  It is both a blessing and a curse. 

You also strike me as someone who loves the game enough to want to be part of it after playing days are over... perhaps as a coach at some point.   So, consider this... 

As a coach, I have had my share of players try to hide from me that they might be too hurt to play in the upcoming season or that they are not going to come back out the next season because they want to focus on school or making money or another sport, etc.  They instinctively think that it is better for everyone if they hold out on that information until the last possible moment when they have to.  In fact, this hurts the coach.  More important, this hurts the player's teammates and the team.  The coach is counting on the player filling a given role/position, so perhaps puts his attention and efforts elsewhere in regards to developing players in other positions where there is more perceived need.  Then, right before season starts, the player drops the bomb on the coach.  Then, both the team and the coach suffer.  There is less time to develop a replacement and therefore, the result is a less capable team taking the field.  Is that what you want for your teammates?

If you have a re-torn labrum and pain from 40 feet in mid-December, you have to prepare yourself (and, hopefully, your team) for the possibility that playing may not happen - at least not at the start of the season. 

You've been through the injury and rehab.  Undoubtedly, you are aware that there are several types of labrum tears and a wide range of severity.  No one here can tell you if you are going to be able to rehab again in time to play your last season.  Only your doc can, and that is still not definitive.  But there is a silver lining if you choose to see it.  There are other ways to be involved with the team and to be a leader that contributes to the team's success.

My labrum was torn and frayed from 10 to 12 oclock.

I know cortisone shot is an option because I've received two of them already before surgery.

Coach told me all I have to do is hit the cut after winter meetings. My arm does not take away my speed, range, or my bat. My arm was plus before. Based on how  the cortisone shots helped before I assume I can get through the season, unless the labrum tore even more after the 2 previous shots. 

I've been abstaining from drinking alcohol. I plan to drink olive oil everyday. I guess one shot of olive oil is equivalent to 200 milligrams of ibuprofen. I eat clean. I have also been doing bands and rotator cuff exercises every single day as of last week, with a rigorous leg and core workout 3 days a week as of last month.

Yes I do want to be a part of the game but I don't think about coaching, at least not yet, because I want to keep on playing after college.

I see the doc tomorrow. 

What do you hope to prove after being a 6 year man and still hurt?  You can't keep having shot after shot.  Great advice from cabbagedad.  If you are hurt that is not fair to your team or the guy who is healthy to lose a spot from you being dishonest and hiding an injury. It doesn't matter how good you are.

Playing after college ?  For who?

All good things come to an end and there is life after baseball.

TPM,

All good things come to an end. No. Not my career this year. 

I actually had several area scouts contact my coach last year.

There's also something called Indy baseball. Another thing called playing over seas.

If your good enough you'll find a place. Obviously I believe I am good enough.

Instead of questioning my ability coming into this you were better off not saying anything at all.

I'll send you my stats at the end of the season.

Listen, you came here asking for advice. Too bad you don't want to hear the truth.  Can a player continue to play hurt, no they cant because you can't hide the truth. A scout who is worth anything knows when a player is hurt. Indy ball wants players who are healthy and so do foreign teams. And for the most part those teams are made up of ex pro players.

You can't keep having cortisone shots into your shoulder you can cause worse damage.

Its really hard to give in when you don't feel your time is up. No one knows that better than I do.  When son was in mexico his shoulder consistently bothered him. When his team made the playoffs and they asked him to continue he said no. He did because he knows that in order to win you have to get the job done and when you are hurt its not possible.  There is no I in team.  

He came back to the states and saw his surgeon, a top orthopedic guy in the country. He had a Bennets legion. No surgery, no shots nothing, 6 months rest. He went back to finish school. Do you think that was easy?  He took it like a man and someone who knows you don't hide injury. Its not the professional or moral thing to do.

He could go back and play, however, he realizes how injuries limit you, and no one wants a guy who has had multiple injuries and no one wants anyone who has has major surgery and never recovered. 

Sorry if you don't want to hear the truth, you came here to find someone to encourage you to continue the game.  Anyone with common sense will never give you that advice .  You need to tell your coach the truth if you are that good he will find a way. Hiding an injury places a liability on him and the program. 

There is life after baseball, trust me.

Good luck.

BOF posted:

DH.

+1.  Defensively you will be a liability if you can only throw 40ft.  That will not help your team.  Possibly DHing can keep you on the field.  

Also, I'd ask the Coach what you could do to help him and his staff.  If you are a 6th year senior you have a lot to offer everyone on that team whether officially or unofficially.  You've seen it all before.  Use that muscle between your ears to help the team.

As always, JMO.    Good luck.

Use that doc visit to gain as much information as you can.  Have a list of questions.  Be mentally prepared for all possible diagnoses.

Of course, ask what possible repercussions there are with playing before fully healed and with playing while labrum is still damaged but with cortisone shots.

Considering that you really want to play after college, you'll want to factor these things in as you navigate options.  If you risk causing more damage by playing prior to full healing and rehab, this will obviously affect your future plans.  I'm pretty sure that if you damage it more severely, it increases the risk that you will never fully recover to the point where you can play at a high level again.  Whereas if you shut down and go through proper rehab again (as hard as that must be to consider), you may be salvaging that chance. 

Of course, this is hypothetical.  I still don't know enough about your specific situation.  Just make sure that you do.

Best of luck to you and your team, KT.

FWIW: A parent (who I don't trust) told us they used platelet rich plasma therapy and stem cell injection therapy, and I was told it worked inasmuch as there is no pain throwing.

Can't be validated, don't know if it's 100% (or any %), sounds too good to be true, pretty damn expensive. Strikes me of the late Steve McQueen's apricot treatment for his cancer.

Again, FWIW. 

After looking back at your past posts, two things stand out to me. 

1. You ve had a few combative replies to advice u didn't like. You may get advice u don't like or agree with  but if you can't handle it, don't post. 

2. You were at a JuCo, seemed to have injury issues there, and was asking about D1 for Sr. Yr.

apparently, u went from JuCo to NAIA.  You are injured again, and while u may be able to hit some next Spring, chances r you won't be able to throw at your personal best. You can't hide things from a coach, he will  be able to see how strong your arm is by how u play.

R u seeing a dr team sent u too? Do u work w a team trainer? They share info on injuries and how players r looking. 

Now, your hoping to play past college. Sorry, but that looks very unlikely, even without your recent injury. You may find a dr to shoot u up w cortisone again since you ve had two-which stopped the pain but it only masks the injury. 

Everyone here wishes the best for u, we hate to see a career end w an injury. It's a part of every sport. Sometimes u take time, except it, and move on to other life goals

Branson, Bof, thank you for the support. 

Joemktg, interesting... However you lost me at "pretty damn expensive" lol

Cabbagedad,

You are quality. Thank you for the support. 

You may want to read up on the stem cell/platlet rich plasma research.  I asked my son's surgeon about it and he threw out the number of "about $500", which most likely would not be covered by insurance.  There is another poster on here whose son had it done (lip labrum, I think) successfully.  I would ask the Dr about it when you go.

We all wish you luck.  (My son had labral tears on each hip that were repaired about 6 months ago. )

KEEWART, I will ask. Thank you

If you have Indy ball prospects and/or over seas prospects, then you should try and let this thing get healed.  You surely will have no future playing career if you continue to play while injured.  Also, the outliers for a college career are five years with one redshirt year in the mix.  You are trying to stretch it to six years and I think you need to be honest, your college career logically ought to be over by now.  It's time to turn the page and get this thing healed.  Even more long term, you'll want to be able to throw with your son and/or grandson someday.  I hurt my shoulder when I was a kid and it still pains me to this day to throw with my grandson and I deeply regret that.  Moreover, please send infielddad a personal message.  His son tried to play through a shoulder injury and it probably ended his son's career prematurely.  Be interesting to know what his take might be.  Either way, all the best to you in the future. 

I tore my Labrum from the 10-2 o'clock position and currently am 3 months out of surgery. Also they put 6 anchors in place and tightened it a little extra to reassure safety in my shoulder.  So I understand the struggle getting through recovery but hope all goes well and good luck on your season. 

Competition at a high level, especially when you have had success at it, is like a drug.  The urge for more gets into your system, takes over your decision making process, skews your judgment.   I think you need an intervention.   I think you need to take a cold, hard and honest look at the facts.  This isn't really the place for one -- though I think you've gotten excellent, honest, and caring advice.   But you need to talk to your coaches, to people you trust, and who care about you, who will give it to you straight, no sugar-coating, no spin.   I think you are spinning yourself into believing a convenient tale that will let you keep on taking the drug that has gotten into your system and has taken over your decision making. 

kt333, it is with some ambivalence, but in deference to CD, that I will weigh in on your questions.  Our son experienced a major labrum injury at the very end of a MILB season. It went misdiagnosed through the off season and Spring Training into the start of High A ball. At that point he could hardly play.  The tear was diagnosed but he was assured he could complete the season, have surgery afterward, and playing would not make it worse.  He followed the advice of team ortho and there is little doubt what was found in surgery was worse than the diagnosis and tear described during the season based on  the contrast MRI. 

Our son rehabbed an entire off season, far longer than you have post surgery.  Eventually, he hit a wall. Again, the team resisted but finally he got to the MRI and to Dr Andrews.  The diagnosis this time was either a recurrent tear or a tear which was not addressed and properly repaired in the first shoulder surgery.  Dr Andrews would not clear him to play, practice or even try further PT.  At surgery #2,  Dr Andrews found considerable edema (bleeding) in the shoulder in the salvage efforts coupled with considerable scar tissue, which extended the surgery complications and time, significantly.

Some things to appreciate: Do you own research and ask your doctor informed questions on the use of cortisone. Most would agree you cannot have more cortisone without risks of longer term damage to the tendons and ligaments which provide structure and support for your shoulder.

You can be at risk for the need for a shoulder replacement a number years down the road without proper care and attention at this point to address the structural damage and stability within the shoulder. As CD notes, you are at risk of not being able to play catch with your son.  It may not seem like much now but looking at the smile on the faces of our son and  our grandson when they are playing catch and playing baseball is a clear testament to recognizing the wisdom in CD's caution and encouragement.

Our son was much further along in the post-surgery rehab than you are before the additional tear was appreciated.  He was also trying to compete as an infielder at a higher level of Milb.  He couldn't do it because he did not have enough strength or stability to play and  to compete in the field or with a bat.  The level of pain was considerable and interfered with every activity of daily living including sleep.  The clicking and periodic locking with a throwing motion was such a challenge.    

Without a fully rehabbed shoulder and now the recurrent tear diagnosed, I can hardly imagine how you could play a full college season of 56 games plus practice at the levels you apparently have for yourself.  Doing so, even if somewhat successfully and without surgery, certainly risks any playing beyond college.  Cortisone not an answer. Pain medications are not an answer. 

In 2008, a study came out by a MLB team ortho which showed that only 25% of those having shoulder/labrum surgery one time returned to be able to play and compete at their pre-injury level.  It is hard to conceive the odds for someone in the early stages of labrum rehab who now has a known recurrent tear, especially in a time frame of a season starting in about 8 weeks and practice before then.

If you were our son, the recommendation would be to get an appointment with Dr Andrews,  or someone at that level.  I very much appreciate your perspectives that this won't stop you.  The reality is, though, that all odds are against you.  Get the best medical perspectives you can because there can be implications much longer term and also for your team and teammates in the shorter term.

Hopefully you can be supported in this thread and outside of the HSBBW to get great medical advice and to make sound decisions so that when your son says let's play baseball Dad, you can smile and say, "yes, lets do that."

Telling players "no" is something that I have to do in my job. Based on what you've posted here, I'd absolutely tell you no and so would the team doctor. Not a chance we could let you play. I know that's frustrating and it's something that is hard for us to do. Something I've recently figured out as an Athletic Trainer: while my job is to help you get back onto the field as an athlete, my job is to also look at your health of the whole person. You are stuck in "athlete" mode and unfortunately it seems your window as an "athlete" has likely come to a close.

But I think it is very wise to take this advice here, as hard as it is, and begin to look at your future after baseball. There is more to life than baseball. And I think it's time for you to realize that.

I wonder if he actually realizes how much we really care?

kt333, have  you considered getting into coaching?

TPM posted:

I wonder if he actually realizes how much we really care?

Yep.  If no one cared, there would be no posts in reply.

It's hard to give up the sport you love.  My son came to this realization this past summer when the university (D2) did not renew his scholarship (grades).  So he's back at his old JuCo to get his AA (was a few credit shy when he transferred) and while he's there he's a volunteer coach (listed as a student assistant).  So while he's no longer playing, he's still involved in the sport he loves and played for 15 years.

It wasn't an easy decision for him, but my wife and I are just as proud of him "manning up" as we were when he played.  He's still our son and we will support him as much as we can.

Yes, there is life after baseball.

FoxDad posted:

TPM posted:

I wonder if he actually realizes how much we really care?

Yep.  If no one cared, there would be no posts in reply.

It's hard to give up the sport you love.  My son came to this realization this past summer when the university (D2) did not renew his scholarship (grades).  So he's back at his old JuCo to get his AA (was a few credit shy when he transferred) and while he's there he's a volunteer coach (listed as a student assistant).  So while he's no longer playing, he's still involved in the sport he loves and played for 15 years.

It wasn't an easy decision for him, but my wife and I are just as proud of him "manning up" as we were when he played.  He's still our son and we will support him as much as we can.

Yes, there is life after baseball.

I understand.   Son is a student assistant who will be doing his internship with the bb team.  He is looking forward to being part of a team again.  After 8 years of playing professional ball he has adjusted well.

I understand how hard it is to give up something you love, however its also hard trying to do something that in all probability will not work out as one planned. Sounds harsh but you have to be realistic about playing on a professional level.  If you really love the game there are so many ways to be involved.

Best of luck to your son.

infielddad posted:

kt333, it is with some ambivalence, but in deference to CD, that I will weigh in on your questions.  Our son experienced a major labrum injury at the very end of a MILB season. It went misdiagnosed through the off season and Spring Training into the start of High A ball. At that point he could hardly play.  The tear was diagnosed but he was assured he could complete the season, have surgery afterward, and playing would not make it worse.  He followed the advice of team ortho and there is little doubt what was found in surgery was worse than the diagnosis and tear described during the season based on  the contrast MRI. 

Our son rehabbed an entire off season, far longer than you have post surgery.  Eventually, he hit a wall. Again, the team resisted but finally he got to the MRI and to Dr Andrews.  The diagnosis this time was either a recurrent tear or a tear which was not addressed and properly repaired in the first shoulder surgery.  Dr Andrews would not clear him to play, practice or even try further PT.  At surgery #2,  Dr Andrews found considerable edema (bleeding) in the shoulder in the salvage efforts coupled with considerable scar tissue, which extended the surgery complications and time, significantly.

Some things to appreciate: Do you own research and ask your doctor informed questions on the use of cortisone. Most would agree you cannot have more cortisone without risks of longer term damage to the tendons and ligaments which provide structure and support for your shoulder.

You can be at risk for the need for a shoulder replacement a number years down the road without proper care and attention at this point to address the structural damage and stability within the shoulder. As CD notes, you are at risk of not being able to play catch with your son.  It may not seem like much now but looking at the smile on the faces of our son and  our grandson when they are playing catch and playing baseball is a clear testament to recognizing the wisdom in CD's caution and encouragement.

Our son was much further along in the post-surgery rehab than you are before the additional tear was appreciated.  He was also trying to compete as an infielder at a higher level of Milb.  He couldn't do it because he did not have enough strength or stability to play and  to compete in the field or with a bat.  The level of pain was considerable and interfered with every activity of daily living including sleep.  The clicking and periodic locking with a throwing motion was such a challenge.    

Without a fully rehabbed shoulder and now the recurrent tear diagnosed, I can hardly imagine how you could play a full college season of 56 games plus practice at the levels you apparently have for yourself.  Doing so, even if somewhat successfully and without surgery, certainly risks any playing beyond college.  Cortisone not an answer. Pain medications are not an answer. 

In 2008, a study came out by a MLB team ortho which showed that only 25% of those having shoulder/labrum surgery one time returned to be able to play and compete at their pre-injury level.  It is hard to conceive the odds for someone in the early stages of labrum rehab who now has a known recurrent tear, especially in a time frame of a season starting in about 8 weeks and practice before then.

If you were our son, the recommendation would be to get an appointment with Dr Andrews,  or someone at that level.  I very much appreciate your perspectives that this won't stop you.  The reality is, though, that all odds are against you.  Get the best medical perspectives you can because there can be implications much longer term and also for your team and teammates in the shorter term.

Hopefully you can be supported in this thread and outside of the HSBBW to get great medical advice and to make sound decisions so that when your son says let's play baseball Dad, you can smile and say, "yes, lets do that."

I hadn't even considered the shoulder replacement option but I am glad infielddad has given his opinion.  I hope kids and players realize that health is more important than gritting things out and proving toughness.  We already know you're tough.  Now take a step back and let this thing get healed properly.  Playing should be the least of concerns although I get that thinking about "not" playing right now is painful.

Some great advice but OP hasn't checked in so I am wondering if he even really wanted opinions or help.

My guess is he's seen dr again and did not get good news. Maybe he just needs time to process things and decide what to do next.  

playball2011 posted:

My guess is he's seen dr again and did not get good news. Maybe he just needs time to process things and decide what to do next.  

If that's the case, hopefully we helped prepare him for that.

MRI shows everything in tact.. doc says the paper crumbling and pain i heard and felt was probably scar tissue from surgery and/or posterior capsule... No need for cortisone shot

kt333 posted:

MRI shows everything in tact.. doc says the paper crumbling and pain i heard and felt was probably scar tissue from surgery and/or posterior capsule... No need for cortisone shot

kt333 posted:

I am going to annihilate this spring

It seems to me that members posted based on your statement you had a recurrent tear. Now you tell us you don't.

It certainly is great if you don't (assuming you had an MRI with contrast which has been accurately interpreted).  But the fact is you mislead everyone in this thread. 
I assume you are still limited by pain to throwing 40 feet.

My perspective is I hope you are able to rehab between now and the start of your season, have a great year, and realize what  jerk you have been in this thread to every person who posted.  From my view, the question is whether you can throw 50 feet without pain in 10-14 days, not whether you "annihilate this Spring"

I really hope you respect your teammates more than you do by posting on this site and you learn a more overarching aspect of integrity and "earning" respect.  Good luck with annihilation but perhaps learn some humility to go with it.

Not sure if he mislead on purpose.  Sounds like he felt pain and ASSUMED he reinjured  arm. Next time, slow down and see a medical professional before u post. Difficult to give advice when all facts are not present. Hopefully pain will be gone by Spring with continued rehab.  Enjoy the experience but realize it's coming to an end. Make new goals in life and move on.

Wanted to prepare for the worse case scenario.. All signs pointed towards reinjury based on tearing sound on one throw and same exact pain following throwing comparable to before surgery. 

If you took offense to any of my posts then maybe you need to check yourself.

Why would I waste time trying to mislead anyone on this site?

God forbid I tried to prepare for the worst! 

The right guys are behind me. Very thankful for this online community... Thank you guys 

This is what you posted:

"The issue is I have retorn my labrum during the rehab process."

You did not indicate a further MRI was pending.  Many people responded, including me, Because you failed to provide a great deal of important information, you, not anyone else, is responsible.  Who knows why you would waste your time misleading folks is  a question only  you can answer.

The fact is you did.  Good luck annihilating. 

No but I did indicate that I have yet to see the Doc... Regardless you're making a mountain out of an ant hill... What are you trying to prove...

And to the whole pain throwing from 40 ft thing... Big difference mentaliity-wise now knowing I didn't retear the shoulder... I am more inclined to embrace the pain now and move forward instead of being hesitant on whether or not to make another throw again.

kt333 posted:

If you are reading this and are going through the same process or know someone going through the same process... Research about a guy named Chris O'Leary... I believe this man has potentially saved my career.  I've gotten a bunch of my teammates on board about throwing mechanics... Wish I knew about him earlier... I don't think we would be having this discussion right now if I did.

O'LEARY?!

Well why ask for our help when you have his? LOL!!!!

What career?

And you did mislead everyone and your answer to infielddad is unacceptable.  Grow up.

TPM posted:

kt333 posted:

If you are reading this and are going through the same process or know someone going through the same process... Research about a guy named Chris O'Leary... I believe this man has potentially saved my career.  I've gotten a bunch of my teammates on board about throwing mechanics... Wish I knew about him earlier... I don't think we would be having this discussion right now if I did.

O'LEARY?!

Well why ask for our help when you have his? LOL!!!!

What career?

And you did mislead everyone and your answer to infielddad is unacceptable.  Grow up.

 

 

Just found out about him recently. LOL!

I don't think so. If you go back and reread the posts it was Infielddad that was out of line and I simply defended myself. 

Again I wanted to prepare... Some of yall are making a mountain out of an ant hill

kt333 posted:

Been feeling negative vibes from some of ya'll. Seems like you guys are more concerned with a minor error instead of just being happy for the fact that I have another opportunity to play again. 

I felt like I owed the guys, that have given value on my post, information about my current status. Maybe I should've just pm'd instead. 

 

 

It wasnt a minor error, it was a huge one.

Everyone gave you great advice. You just didn't like it.

Go back and reread the entire topic, you mislead everyone.  You don't come here and insult a man who has helped so many with great advice.  

Do a search on here about O'Leary. How has he helped you? 

Do a search on what the doctor said to you. Scar tissue doesn't cause pain. You said you had pain when you threw. It's not going to go away. Do your homework.

A sixth year man should dominate, especially at an NAIA.  It's like a 25-26 year old dominating A ball. Season hasn't started and you haven't made the team yet.

I wish you the best in your baseball "career". I hope at some point you got your degree, or will. That's what is really important.